Tesla owner blows up his Model S with dynamite over $22,000 battery replacement(electrek.co)
electrek.co
Tesla owner blows up his Model S with dynamite over $22,000 battery replacement
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-up-model-s-dynamite-battery-replacement/
8 comments
He is correct in highlighting the very poor 3rd party service available to Tesla owners specifically because Tesla is reluctant to release repair information and software. A Tesla service subscription to get access to schematics and troubleshooting help cost $3178 per year. Contrast that with GM's $550 annual charge and you will see the bleak future of Tesla repair.
550 isn't that far from 3178 to be fair.
Its only 5.7 times the cost. Not far at all.
I think the point is that this difference is not significant compared to the annual revenue and profit of a typical successful car shop.
It's significant compared to the annual revenue from Tesla repairs for a typical successful car shop.
> A Tesla service subscription to get access to schematics and troubleshooting help cost $3178 per year. Contrast that with GM's $550 annual charge and you will see the bleak future of Tesla repair.
That doesn't sound all that unreasonable, at first. Auto repair business average between $250K-$500K in annual revenue, but average annual profit might only be $100K. I suspect many that repair domestic ICE vehicles don't bother with subscriptions and rely on the experience of their mechanics. There must be some threshold of Tesla repair customers to make a subscription worthwhile. Though, I live on the East Coast, rural setting, but I have travelled from PA to FL more than a few times since 2019, and it just occurred to me that I have never seen a Tesla in the wild.
That doesn't sound all that unreasonable, at first. Auto repair business average between $250K-$500K in annual revenue, but average annual profit might only be $100K. I suspect many that repair domestic ICE vehicles don't bother with subscriptions and rely on the experience of their mechanics. There must be some threshold of Tesla repair customers to make a subscription worthwhile. Though, I live on the East Coast, rural setting, but I have travelled from PA to FL more than a few times since 2019, and it just occurred to me that I have never seen a Tesla in the wild.
It is definitely unreasonable.
I am excited for Hyundai and Kia's EV vehicles with their insane warranties and third party support.
I am excited for Hyundai and Kia's EV vehicles with their insane warranties and third party support.
As an auto tech, Tesla has fire walled their information from the usual distributors. A AllData Or Mitchell repair subscription cover every (popular) brand except Tesla. Their cost for a single mechanic is cheaper than Tesla's.
> That doesn't sound all that unreasonable, at first.
Selling an item, then selling the repair manual to that item, isn't unreasonable - it's an insult to your customers, and only a few steps removed from extortion. It's the manufacturer saying "I want to use technical means to control how you can use the item, even after you've bought it - and by extension, to control you."
I hope the right to repair movement makes this practice illegal.
Selling an item, then selling the repair manual to that item, isn't unreasonable - it's an insult to your customers, and only a few steps removed from extortion. It's the manufacturer saying "I want to use technical means to control how you can use the item, even after you've bought it - and by extension, to control you."
I hope the right to repair movement makes this practice illegal.
Revenue is not equal to profit. Adding in $3000 from each manufacturer could add a huge amount to the operational costs of one of these businesses, further reducing margin and therefore profitability. Additionally, your average home mechanic should be able to deal with most things on a Tesla with the exception of high voltage electronics. That schematic charge prices your average Joe out of the self repair market almost instantly.
Considering the $22,000 replacement of the battery would come with no warranty, writing off the car seems like the wise choice. He extracted the high value components, and blew up what remained in a spectacular and profitable fashion.
> blew up what remained in a spectacular and profitable fashion
profitable?
this kind of spectacle is a net loss for the natural world, for humanity and for all the other species we share the earth with. if you think i'm exaggerating you're not seeing how much waste and destruction our current proprietary paradigm is responsible for.
this whole doing 'fun' experiments on non-modular black-box consumer-grade tech by destroying it or blowing it up for 'content' is the definition of insanity. we will look back from our communist open source future society and shiver with horror, disbelief and fear as we watch back 1080p videos showing how some of us poisoned our watersheds and laughed hysterically while creating the toxic, plastic, holocenic sludge.
think i'm being a crybaby? see images of global north e-waste giving cancer to children in the global south. it's devastating to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mleQVO1Vd1I
profitable?
this kind of spectacle is a net loss for the natural world, for humanity and for all the other species we share the earth with. if you think i'm exaggerating you're not seeing how much waste and destruction our current proprietary paradigm is responsible for.
this whole doing 'fun' experiments on non-modular black-box consumer-grade tech by destroying it or blowing it up for 'content' is the definition of insanity. we will look back from our communist open source future society and shiver with horror, disbelief and fear as we watch back 1080p videos showing how some of us poisoned our watersheds and laughed hysterically while creating the toxic, plastic, holocenic sludge.
think i'm being a crybaby? see images of global north e-waste giving cancer to children in the global south. it's devastating to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mleQVO1Vd1I
I don't think you're being a crybaby, but you do seem to be deliberately misinterpreting the parent post.
[deleted]
> you do seem to be deliberately misinterpreting the parent post.
am i though? or is society using an overly simplistic (and therefore dangerous/harmful) economic theory that considers our natural world an 'externality' and tries to grow the economy infinitely?
the Tesla car that was blown up was a piece of 'non-modular black-box consumer-grade tech'. i wish more people would recognize the horrific waste and planned obsolescence our current institutions are encouraging, and work on alternatives to replace them (my earlier posts: mikorzal.org/valueflo.ws, holochain + open source ecology).
anyway, at the root of comments like my earlier one is both a deep love for our planet, as well as 'earthgrief' (Chellis Glendinning/Francis Weller). it's those two things, as well as capitalist alienation: currently being unable to adequately exercise autonomy - not being able to sustainably take part in concretely building transitionary systems with others. not being 'allowed' and supported to be as deeply and continuously curious as i'd like to be because of the way science and tech are increasingly enclosed in new knowledge fiefdoms.
the reason i quoted the word 'profitability' was related to the concept of audience commodity and the destructive profit-seeking nature of youtube (as well as the economic system as a whole which google/alphabet etc. are inside of):
“the paying customers are the advertisers, and what is being sold are the users themselves, not their content. This means that the source of value that becomes Facebook’s profits is the work done by the workers in the global fields and factories, who are producing the commodities being advertised to Facebook’s audience.” -- Dmytri Kleiner
am i though? or is society using an overly simplistic (and therefore dangerous/harmful) economic theory that considers our natural world an 'externality' and tries to grow the economy infinitely?
the Tesla car that was blown up was a piece of 'non-modular black-box consumer-grade tech'. i wish more people would recognize the horrific waste and planned obsolescence our current institutions are encouraging, and work on alternatives to replace them (my earlier posts: mikorzal.org/valueflo.ws, holochain + open source ecology).
anyway, at the root of comments like my earlier one is both a deep love for our planet, as well as 'earthgrief' (Chellis Glendinning/Francis Weller). it's those two things, as well as capitalist alienation: currently being unable to adequately exercise autonomy - not being able to sustainably take part in concretely building transitionary systems with others. not being 'allowed' and supported to be as deeply and continuously curious as i'd like to be because of the way science and tech are increasingly enclosed in new knowledge fiefdoms.
the reason i quoted the word 'profitability' was related to the concept of audience commodity and the destructive profit-seeking nature of youtube (as well as the economic system as a whole which google/alphabet etc. are inside of):
“the paying customers are the advertisers, and what is being sold are the users themselves, not their content. This means that the source of value that becomes Facebook’s profits is the work done by the workers in the global fields and factories, who are producing the commodities being advertised to Facebook’s audience.” -- Dmytri Kleiner
I think most of this is irrelevant despite being interesting.
OP used the common-usage definition of profit (made more money than spent) and you sought to rebut that on the basis of a different definition that seems to be of your own creation. You clearly know that OP meant profit in the usual sense based on your comments. That seems like deliberate misinterpretation to me; you are responding to an argument that you know OP wasn’t making (that this event was a net environmental / societal positive).
OP used the common-usage definition of profit (made more money than spent) and you sought to rebut that on the basis of a different definition that seems to be of your own creation. You clearly know that OP meant profit in the usual sense based on your comments. That seems like deliberate misinterpretation to me; you are responding to an argument that you know OP wasn’t making (that this event was a net environmental / societal positive).
> despite being interesting.
glad to hear it. i guess maybe that's what i subconsciously aim for when i write things like this; hoping for things that resonated with me to also resonate with others.
i agree actually that it's willful misinterpretation of the person's comment. i think maybe the seemingly thoughtless presence/use of the word profit in this context just jumped out at me, as we're swimming in a pool of constant and endless capitalist realism. i personally appreciate it a lot when others challenge and expose our cruel and unsustainable material reality, so my comment probably comes from a desire to contribute to that critique.
glad to hear it. i guess maybe that's what i subconsciously aim for when i write things like this; hoping for things that resonated with me to also resonate with others.
i agree actually that it's willful misinterpretation of the person's comment. i think maybe the seemingly thoughtless presence/use of the word profit in this context just jumped out at me, as we're swimming in a pool of constant and endless capitalist realism. i personally appreciate it a lot when others challenge and expose our cruel and unsustainable material reality, so my comment probably comes from a desire to contribute to that critique.
Timestamp link, for HN's sophisticated ædification:
https://youtu.be/7_9aVzf5fC4?t=288
https://youtu.be/7_9aVzf5fC4?t=288
Interesting business model though- unlike traditional cars which don’t particularly degrade that much while sitting (except cosmetic/cheap wear items) Teslas are apparently like giant iPhones that the battery just dies on after a certain number of years.
Traditional cars degrade quite a bit while sitting for years.
Components get rusted, essential rubber belts crack, ignition system degrades.
These can add up to a lot of money.
> essential rubber belts crack
Any soft material degrades, and probably faster than most people think, only a few months. Oil pan gaskets, brake seals, injector o-rings, you name it. Modern cars probably suffer less, but it still happens.
I have a 30 year old pony car that I only get to take out once every few months due to lack of time. Every time I do get the chance to take it out, something fails due to that lack of use.
Any soft material degrades, and probably faster than most people think, only a few months. Oil pan gaskets, brake seals, injector o-rings, you name it. Modern cars probably suffer less, but it still happens.
I have a 30 year old pony car that I only get to take out once every few months due to lack of time. Every time I do get the chance to take it out, something fails due to that lack of use.
Lots can go wrong unpredictably or fail over time but that is not the same as the way a chemical battery degrades (roughly) linearly. If I let my car sit for 5 years my experience is you can’t really predict what needs to be relaced (besides wear items like tires, battery etc).
The batteries are generally holding up better than initially expected. This is more of a warranty/repair cost issue than something inherent to the battery.
A lot wrong can go with ICE engines if not used for a long time.
I guess keeping a Tesla charged every week is a good way to extend shelf life.
I guess keeping a Tesla charged every week is a good way to extend shelf life.
Possibly if stored outside but I have fixed lots of old engines and if it was working when parked you can usually just change the oil and carburetor and hoses. Everything else is metal after all.
This feels like it's playing into anti-EV sentiments about battery replacement.
Yes, the service sucks or whatever, but I had to read pretty far down to find out that they removed all the items that had value, including the battery, before blowing up the remains.
And selling that for scrap would probably also have been a better option economically if they didn't have the option of earning ad revenue on YouTube clickbait.
I'd genuinely like to know exactly how much you'd be out financially if this happened to you, and the likelihood of it happening.
I presume the NPV is still positive compared to other options and is growing even more so over time.
Yes, the service sucks or whatever, but I had to read pretty far down to find out that they removed all the items that had value, including the battery, before blowing up the remains.
And selling that for scrap would probably also have been a better option economically if they didn't have the option of earning ad revenue on YouTube clickbait.
I'd genuinely like to know exactly how much you'd be out financially if this happened to you, and the likelihood of it happening.
I presume the NPV is still positive compared to other options and is growing even more so over time.
In the video, the owner says the car was nice for the first 1500km, then reported errors after which it had to be towed.
I'm having trouble believing that the battery pack could go bad and be out of warranty with such low mileage.
Was that a translation error from Finnish to English subtitles?
Was that a translation error from Finnish to English subtitles?
The battery was out of warranty because it was replaced by a third party, IIRC.
Transltion is correct. He says "puolitoista tuhatta kilsaa" so "one and a half thousand kilometers". It does seem like an oddly small number though.
Perhaps the subtitle is off by a factor of ten (or multiple)? It would seem more reasonable to have issues at 15,000km (although still disappointing), or even moreso at 150,000km.
Probably made more $ than what the Tesla cost him from ad revenue.
Idiot. He easily could have found one of many groups nationwide who know exactly how to fix these batteries for a fraction of the price. There are numerous YouTube videos featuring various places that know how to do this now.
> Idiot.
His video has 2.5 million views, having only been uploaded a couple days ago. He doesn't come across as an idiot to me.
His video has 2.5 million views, having only been uploaded a couple days ago. He doesn't come across as an idiot to me.
He also gutted the car before blowing it up so I'm sure he made some cash selling those parts.
"They can't be an idiot, they have millions of views" is not something I've heard before I must say.
2.5 million views is about $10k.
There are plenty of adverts during that video. He’ll be able to buy a new Tesla pretty soon…
It is not the owner of the car that is getting the adverts money, but rather the youtube streamer (and their company?) that do.
The car owner did get some screen fame, got to experience an explosion, and if they bought a sport car then they might not care too much about the potential money for selling the chassis.
The car owner did get some screen fame, got to experience an explosion, and if they bought a sport car then they might not care too much about the potential money for selling the chassis.
Touché
Not only that, the battery pack and drivetrain ware removed prior to blowing it up.
Notice how there's no burning batteries in the video.
This is mentioned in the Beyond The Press's video, but not in the one by Pommijätkät.
This is mentioned in the Beyond The Press's video, but not in the one by Pommijätkät.
> nationwide
Which nation? The guy's in Finland. Though they have so many EVs this should've been a possibility too. They have already had a third party replacement however and may have opted to not get another this time due to the bad experience.
Which nation? The guy's in Finland. Though they have so many EVs this should've been a possibility too. They have already had a third party replacement however and may have opted to not get another this time due to the bad experience.
They run a YouTube channel. It's entertainment.
no, the owner reached out to the YouTube channel; the owner of the car is not otherwise affiliated with the channel.
They didn't talk about finances. I'd have asked for a part of the revenue. Besides that: The non-financial value is still entertainment. Looks like they got a kick out of it too.
He's in Finland. Read.
> Katainen didn’t like the value proposition considering used 2013 Model S vehicles go for about 35,000 euros in Finland and he didn’t have access to a third-party shop to fix the pack.
It's literally in the article that that wasn't an option.
It's literally in the article that that wasn't an option.
Yeah, I think he'd agree, it was pretty idiotic for him to but a Tesla in hindsight.
> Idiot. He easily could have found one of many groups nationwide who know exactly how to fix these batteries for a fraction of the price.
Or, alternatively, he could get many eyeballs looking at his monetized YouTube video and buy a better car with the profits.
Or, alternatively, he could get many eyeballs looking at his monetized YouTube video and buy a better car with the profits.
it's not even the Tesla owner's YouTube channel.
would someone please read the effing article before commenting on it?
would someone please read the effing article before commenting on it?
> it's not even the Tesla owner's YouTube channel.
So? You think he's not getting a cut financially? Why would he deal himself out of that money?
So? You think he's not getting a cut financially? Why would he deal himself out of that money?
the Tesla owner may have been happy just to see the car die.
assumptions about money will almost always be very wrong and are always inaccurate.
assumptions about money will almost always be very wrong and are always inaccurate.
So what you're saying is that you have no effing idea. Funny that.