The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft(clivethompson.medium.com)
clivethompson.medium.com
The metaverse is already here – it's Minecraft
https://clivethompson.medium.com/the-metaverse-is-already-here-its-minecraft-99c89ed8ba2
364 comments
No, it is not. Neither is Roblox or Fortnite, or VRchat. A single game or world is NOT the metaverse, what is so hard to understand about that for journalists and companies?
The metaverse is the immersive internet, as a successor to our current one that is more 2D oriented around photos/videos/text today. It's a paradigm shift in how we interact, but most importantly there will be many of these virtual worlds/spaces interconnected together to form an actual network that nobody outright owns. To get to this future, we need protocols/standards to allow virtual worlds to talk to one another and agree that users can hop back in forth between them seamlessly, across all platforms.
More specifically, the way we use the web today to navigate from webpage to another is how we we traverse the metaverse. The core problem that needs to get solved right now is interoperability, to enable the "web of 3D".
Look to WebGPU, WebAssembly, and WebXR as cornerstone technologies here. Our startup is building the "3D/VR web" in this way, and our current focus is getting proper HTML5 exporting from the native game engines, currently Unreal Engine. We're also building out a suite of tooling to empower developers and creators along with our hosting/discovery platform that includes advanced texture compression + asynchronous asset fetching to enable 3D/VR websites that load as quickly as a regular 2D page. If you're a developer and are interested in our work, you can join our Discord here:
https://discord.gg/zUSZ3T8
The metaverse is the immersive internet, as a successor to our current one that is more 2D oriented around photos/videos/text today. It's a paradigm shift in how we interact, but most importantly there will be many of these virtual worlds/spaces interconnected together to form an actual network that nobody outright owns. To get to this future, we need protocols/standards to allow virtual worlds to talk to one another and agree that users can hop back in forth between them seamlessly, across all platforms.
More specifically, the way we use the web today to navigate from webpage to another is how we we traverse the metaverse. The core problem that needs to get solved right now is interoperability, to enable the "web of 3D".
Look to WebGPU, WebAssembly, and WebXR as cornerstone technologies here. Our startup is building the "3D/VR web" in this way, and our current focus is getting proper HTML5 exporting from the native game engines, currently Unreal Engine. We're also building out a suite of tooling to empower developers and creators along with our hosting/discovery platform that includes advanced texture compression + asynchronous asset fetching to enable 3D/VR websites that load as quickly as a regular 2D page. If you're a developer and are interested in our work, you can join our Discord here:
https://discord.gg/zUSZ3T8
“What is so hard for people to understand” says HN commenter: “the metaverse clearly means [my definition of the metaverse] why can’t people see this?!!”
Well, Zuckerberg didn’t give a clear definition, the term itself is made up, and it doesn’t currently exist (otherwise, what would we be building?).
So no you don’t know what it means or how it will turn out, and neither does Zuckerberg. He might have a vision of what he’d like it to be and how he’s going to make money out of it, but he’s very probably very wrong.
It’s obvious a deeply immersive experience will eventually arrive but it seems far from obvious how it will be used, much like predicting the rise of Tik Tok in 1990 based on email and usenet.
The best way to predict the future is to make it. Hackers built much of the early internet, so let’s go build the early metaverse and at least make something insanely experimental and magical and beautiful before the next Zuckerberg comes alone and devalues it.
Well, Zuckerberg didn’t give a clear definition, the term itself is made up, and it doesn’t currently exist (otherwise, what would we be building?).
So no you don’t know what it means or how it will turn out, and neither does Zuckerberg. He might have a vision of what he’d like it to be and how he’s going to make money out of it, but he’s very probably very wrong.
It’s obvious a deeply immersive experience will eventually arrive but it seems far from obvious how it will be used, much like predicting the rise of Tik Tok in 1990 based on email and usenet.
The best way to predict the future is to make it. Hackers built much of the early internet, so let’s go build the early metaverse and at least make something insanely experimental and magical and beautiful before the next Zuckerberg comes alone and devalues it.
To be completely honest, I don't really know what people mean when they talk about a "metaverse".
But if I had to define it one way or the other, I feel like I already have, and interact with, a sort of metaverse. I play various video games with various people, talking and interacting with friends for these games on Discord, interacting with the larger community of these games on Discord/Reddit, engaging with influencer communities on Twitch/Youtube, and follow game news on Reddit/Twitter/Youtube/Forums.
In the same vein, I've learned a tremendous amount about computer science, software engineering, job hunting, smaller hobbies, and plenty of other various things through the same set of things that make up my gaming metaverse (Forums/Discord/Youtube/Reddit/HackerNews/etc). It doesn't overlap with the same people I interact with for gaming, but I wouldn't expect the people to overlap much. The platforms are still the same.
And it doesn't really stop there, these are just the two big things I can think of.
So I guess I'm asking, what is the "Metaverse" trying to do? Take what we currently already have, but make it more cohesive? The only other thing I can think of would be a full-dive VR world experience, but I'm fairly sure we aren't even close to that.
But if I had to define it one way or the other, I feel like I already have, and interact with, a sort of metaverse. I play various video games with various people, talking and interacting with friends for these games on Discord, interacting with the larger community of these games on Discord/Reddit, engaging with influencer communities on Twitch/Youtube, and follow game news on Reddit/Twitter/Youtube/Forums.
In the same vein, I've learned a tremendous amount about computer science, software engineering, job hunting, smaller hobbies, and plenty of other various things through the same set of things that make up my gaming metaverse (Forums/Discord/Youtube/Reddit/HackerNews/etc). It doesn't overlap with the same people I interact with for gaming, but I wouldn't expect the people to overlap much. The platforms are still the same.
And it doesn't really stop there, these are just the two big things I can think of.
So I guess I'm asking, what is the "Metaverse" trying to do? Take what we currently already have, but make it more cohesive? The only other thing I can think of would be a full-dive VR world experience, but I'm fairly sure we aren't even close to that.
Yeah. The totally lawless environments that can be present in Minecraft servers are awesome- the best example of which being 2b2t, a vanilla gameserver running the same map since 2010 that is essentially the 4chan of Minecraft (it even originated there). Despite allowing users to hack to their hearts' content and having no rules, the creativity and sheer amount of media produced by such an environment is stunning.
Here is a comic series that was made based on the server, and a neat video animation someone created: http://minecraft2b2t.thecomicseries.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEg5UPKPY70
Here is a comic series that was made based on the server, and a neat video animation someone created: http://minecraft2b2t.thecomicseries.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEg5UPKPY70
The most important fact about Java Minecraft that most people are missing is that long after Notch left the company they started distributing deobfuscation maps for it:
C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\.minecraft\versions\1.17.1\1.17.1.json
Look for: client_mappings & server_mappings
https://launcher.mojang.com/v1/objects/e4d540e0cba05a6097e88...
https://launcher.mojang.com/v1/objects/f6cae1c5c1255f68ba483...
The tricky part is they don't provide deobfuscation tools, so everyone makes their own and it's a mess.
But Minecraft is for all practical purposes open-source since 2018!
Legally you cannot distribute the deobfuscated binaries, so most people map the code.
I would probably use the 1.17.1 as the last "open" minecraft and start a fork that you compile and work with after deobfuscation and then re-obfuscate at each release.
Dunno what the legal team at Microsoft would think about that!
C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\.minecraft\versions\1.17.1\1.17.1.json
Look for: client_mappings & server_mappings
https://launcher.mojang.com/v1/objects/e4d540e0cba05a6097e88...
https://launcher.mojang.com/v1/objects/f6cae1c5c1255f68ba483...
The tricky part is they don't provide deobfuscation tools, so everyone makes their own and it's a mess.
But Minecraft is for all practical purposes open-source since 2018!
Legally you cannot distribute the deobfuscated binaries, so most people map the code.
I would probably use the 1.17.1 as the last "open" minecraft and start a fork that you compile and work with after deobfuscation and then re-obfuscate at each release.
Dunno what the legal team at Microsoft would think about that!
Since I watched the highlights reel mentioned in the article [1] I wonder if there exists sort of a doctrine in recent PR video production to always include a super annoying aspect of choreography to keep people from thinking too long about the actual message.
Here Zuck and friends are trying neurotically to keep their fingertips at 1cm distance at any time. Waving their hands as if they were mockups.
In recent Apple event recordings Tim, Craig and the gang cannot get their feet together like anatomically unchallenged humans would do when standing casually. Always more than shoulder's width apart. I've observed something similar once after a mountain biking contest, got to do something with the saddle.
It's obviously not pleasing to the eye (or is it me?). But I cannot see a compelling reason and I refuse to take this as a coincidence. Why???
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gElfIo6uw4g
Here Zuck and friends are trying neurotically to keep their fingertips at 1cm distance at any time. Waving their hands as if they were mockups.
In recent Apple event recordings Tim, Craig and the gang cannot get their feet together like anatomically unchallenged humans would do when standing casually. Always more than shoulder's width apart. I've observed something similar once after a mountain biking contest, got to do something with the saddle.
It's obviously not pleasing to the eye (or is it me?). But I cannot see a compelling reason and I refuse to take this as a coincidence. Why???
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gElfIo6uw4g
A little OT but related and want to bounce this off HN.
I think we’ve reached a turning point in history and society, aided by lockdowns, where young people spend more time interacting online than IRL. This has major consequences for society and tech.
Young people present themselves to the world primarily through their online persona. The physical world is secondary. To reiterate, what happens online, what is shown and seen online, is more important to them than the same in physical space.
You could probably write a book about the consequences of this (maybe someone has?) but two particularly salient points: (1) if you’re not an onliner then it’s hard for you to understand how the future will look, and (2) your desires are just going to be fundamentally different from other people.
I know from talking to CEOs that those entering the workforce now are most comfortable interacting through Slack and WhatsApp. Physical interactions are sometimes difficult, because people have less experience of it - usually it takes them longer to bond, and more formal social situations are challenging because they’ve not had much practice and to learn the rules governing behaviour in certain physical spaces.
It’s easy for oldies to mock Zuckerberg with his embarrassing meta presentation, and indeed I think his influence is waning (because he’s also out of touch) but for sure the future is going to be driven by people who are living online. Avatars may seem like a 90s throwback but that’s just because of how we conceive of them; the truth is _we already have avatars, they’re just messy and distributed and mostly text based_.
Personally I don’t like this conclusion. I think the physical world is superior in many ways, for example physical activity and exercise are fundamental to wellbeing, and I can’t see that being properly and healthily replicated in the virtual world for a very long time. I think there are more noble and worthwhile goals to be pursued in the physical world. But just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean it ain’t true.
I’ve half a mind to join ‘em, half a mind to go build a log cabin.
I think we’ve reached a turning point in history and society, aided by lockdowns, where young people spend more time interacting online than IRL. This has major consequences for society and tech.
Young people present themselves to the world primarily through their online persona. The physical world is secondary. To reiterate, what happens online, what is shown and seen online, is more important to them than the same in physical space.
You could probably write a book about the consequences of this (maybe someone has?) but two particularly salient points: (1) if you’re not an onliner then it’s hard for you to understand how the future will look, and (2) your desires are just going to be fundamentally different from other people.
I know from talking to CEOs that those entering the workforce now are most comfortable interacting through Slack and WhatsApp. Physical interactions are sometimes difficult, because people have less experience of it - usually it takes them longer to bond, and more formal social situations are challenging because they’ve not had much practice and to learn the rules governing behaviour in certain physical spaces.
It’s easy for oldies to mock Zuckerberg with his embarrassing meta presentation, and indeed I think his influence is waning (because he’s also out of touch) but for sure the future is going to be driven by people who are living online. Avatars may seem like a 90s throwback but that’s just because of how we conceive of them; the truth is _we already have avatars, they’re just messy and distributed and mostly text based_.
Personally I don’t like this conclusion. I think the physical world is superior in many ways, for example physical activity and exercise are fundamental to wellbeing, and I can’t see that being properly and healthily replicated in the virtual world for a very long time. I think there are more noble and worthwhile goals to be pursued in the physical world. But just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean it ain’t true.
I’ve half a mind to join ‘em, half a mind to go build a log cabin.
Facebook is a cloner. They were first a Myspace clone. Then they invented the feed, "like" and "share" when Twitter came around with their feed, heart and retweet and "disappearing" stories when Snapchat started and then "reels" when tiktok picked up.
At first Twitter didn't support images and the Facebook feed didn't either. Then Twitter did and the Facebook feed did. Whoop dee doo
There's nothing mysterious about this. Just see what's popular and imagine it blue, boxy, and boring. Congratulations, that's Facebook's next feature.
Even the strategy itself is just a copy of the Bill Gates playbook from the 80s and 90s.
They should have renamed themselves "Derivative" instead
At first Twitter didn't support images and the Facebook feed didn't either. Then Twitter did and the Facebook feed did. Whoop dee doo
There's nothing mysterious about this. Just see what's popular and imagine it blue, boxy, and boring. Congratulations, that's Facebook's next feature.
Even the strategy itself is just a copy of the Bill Gates playbook from the 80s and 90s.
They should have renamed themselves "Derivative" instead
this is what I always thought when playing Minecraft, it’s not just digital legos, even pure vanilla is a living breathing world with day/night cycles, farming, etc, I use a plug-in called Multiverse to connect all of our old worlds together with the current world, so we can go back and use resources we dug up 10 years ago, and it supports a really nice live mapping plugin called dynmap, also built a “meta world” that acts as a go-between to quickly jump to specific builds across various worlds using an “iconic” chunk of the actual build converted to “meta world” materials: http://mc.legacycraft.vip:8123/?worldname=meta&mapname=surfa...
The problem with businessmen trying to make a metaverse is its got uncreative people trying to make tools for creative people, and trying to engineer unscalable and impractical cargo cult solutions.
The uncreative part is best seen in how businessmen think you should buy books online by simply emulating, 3d game style, the experience of going to a shopping mall in 1980 and walking the aisles and waiting in line at Waldenbooks. The actual way books are sold online is instead of a very user unfriendly POS terminal based on a 5150 terminal connected to an AS/400, its a pretty and easy to use UI web based point of sale terminal. Essentially Amazon tricked us into doing free labor for them, being our own cashier/salespeople. Gotta admit that's more creative than "put the mall in GTA3 (Edited: more like GTA Vice City, and that was an awesome game LOL) as a map and pretend to visit the mall in 1980" like the businessmen thought online shopping would resemble.
The cargo cult is the businessmen never think thru how to scale and make things work. The main reason it took until 1900 for heavier than air flight was too many of 'those guys' in charge trying to make airplanes by emulating birds. Just make a 747 by packing ground beef around glued together chicken bones and I'm sure it'll eventually fly real well, says the businessmen. Obviously one makes railroad engines by building steam powered fully articulated four legged mining donkeys. Obviously teen socializing using technology will be putting a "Mall Rats" movie map as a level in Doom. (edited: Jetson era portrayal of robot factories, lol.)
Meanwhile I lived thru the 90s 00s where the legacy media, which is finally near dead, decided everything internet and VR was actually bad special effects as an analogy for a LSD trip. Why bother with actually "doing VR" if you could replace all the hardware in a video game console with a acid tab dispenser. I mean, they're not wrong in a sense, but only Hollywood people would have expected/demanded that everyone wants to be high all the time.
The uncreative part is best seen in how businessmen think you should buy books online by simply emulating, 3d game style, the experience of going to a shopping mall in 1980 and walking the aisles and waiting in line at Waldenbooks. The actual way books are sold online is instead of a very user unfriendly POS terminal based on a 5150 terminal connected to an AS/400, its a pretty and easy to use UI web based point of sale terminal. Essentially Amazon tricked us into doing free labor for them, being our own cashier/salespeople. Gotta admit that's more creative than "put the mall in GTA3 (Edited: more like GTA Vice City, and that was an awesome game LOL) as a map and pretend to visit the mall in 1980" like the businessmen thought online shopping would resemble.
The cargo cult is the businessmen never think thru how to scale and make things work. The main reason it took until 1900 for heavier than air flight was too many of 'those guys' in charge trying to make airplanes by emulating birds. Just make a 747 by packing ground beef around glued together chicken bones and I'm sure it'll eventually fly real well, says the businessmen. Obviously one makes railroad engines by building steam powered fully articulated four legged mining donkeys. Obviously teen socializing using technology will be putting a "Mall Rats" movie map as a level in Doom. (edited: Jetson era portrayal of robot factories, lol.)
Meanwhile I lived thru the 90s 00s where the legacy media, which is finally near dead, decided everything internet and VR was actually bad special effects as an analogy for a LSD trip. Why bother with actually "doing VR" if you could replace all the hardware in a video game console with a acid tab dispenser. I mean, they're not wrong in a sense, but only Hollywood people would have expected/demanded that everyone wants to be high all the time.
"it's actually neosvr", "it's actually [insert thing here]"
Maybe it's always been here, perhaps it's just another abstraction or simulation of a perceived reality. One could say that MUD systems are metaverses(metaversi?)
What I would like to see are more decentralized simulation systems with extensive accessibility features
Maybe it's always been here, perhaps it's just another abstraction or simulation of a perceived reality. One could say that MUD systems are metaverses(metaversi?)
What I would like to see are more decentralized simulation systems with extensive accessibility features
That's a funny spelling of "Roblox".
There is a lesser-known part of Minecraft already used by educators:
https://education.minecraft.net/en-us/discover/impact
This is the kind of product I hope for with the Metaverse but will probably never see.
https://education.minecraft.net/en-us/discover/impact
This is the kind of product I hope for with the Metaverse but will probably never see.
The Metaverse sounds like a protocol for VR/AR worlds, but I don’t think I read there is any consortium working on such an open protocol. Unless such a protocol already exists?
I thought it was Second Life
Animal Crossing is my wife's Multiverse.
I've been saying for quite some time that the next big thing (for me) would be some kind of hybrid between a virtual coworking space, VRChat and Minecraft. I feel like being in a 3D space is a completly different experience from being on a Discord server for example. I'd love to go build a house with friends, then code a bit with them inside, and then invite a few people in.
Minecraft is great but to my knowledge you can't make a portal in one Minecraft world to another world, you can't take an object from one Minecraft world to another world, and you can't transit from one simulation to another simulation (all Minecraft worlds run the same simulation: the Minecraft simulation). It's not really a metaverse in that it's not one connected uncoordinated space, it's many separate, instanced spaces. But it does at least let you run your own space. Valheim is more metaverse than minecraft is since you can gather resources in one Valheim server and take them to another, but there's no real security on that and there's no public history so it's not really stable; there's no notion of what's "real". Although I do agree with the framing that something being a metaverse has little to do with head-mounted displays.
It's Croquet. Which was Alan Kay building the metaverse -- as a mere stepping stone to his real goal which always was to build the Young Lady's Illustrated Primer from The Diamond Age.
Kind of a cringe video. Zuckerberg doing a convincing impression of Data from Star Trek. It's like that episode where Data tries to understand human emotions, and only succeeds in vaguely faking a smile. Except this time he wants to build a virtual world for humans. But he doesn't understand it's limited by his android brain's concept of what humans are.
Isn't the Metaverse(tm) really just 2nd Life given a second life?
Roblox and Minecraft are great examples of what Metaverses could be. I think that is largely the appeal for many players.
Like Web3.0 we are gonna get every shade of meaning of Metaverse shoved down our throats for the foreseeable future.
> Mojang thus far hasn’t built microtransactions
He must have a different Minecraft. Minecraft on xbox has a shop for skins and plugins and all kind of stuff right on the very first menu you see. It even has some kind of daily deal. It has its own funny money currency system. (Google "minecoins")
He must have a different Minecraft. Minecraft on xbox has a shop for skins and plugins and all kind of stuff right on the very first menu you see. It even has some kind of daily deal. It has its own funny money currency system. (Google "minecoins")
I want a single contiguous Minecraft world that everyone can use.
Each account could get a range of blocks allocated to them, after Credit Card validation, to prove you're a real person.
You could pay to own some more blocks.
The blocks you get are just a land grab.
You can trade blocks you own for blocks someone else owns, and there could be a monetary transaction to go with it.
You can build what you want to on your blocks.
How does all of this pay for itself? We set up Pay To Download blocks. If you want to fly around my creation, you can, and it just costs a little bit to do it.
For the blocks I control, my Server lets me make permanent changes to those blocks. I can let other people on my Server, and I can give them permission to help me make changes to those blocks. We can make a shared Access Control List, and pool our blocks together, and edit them together.
If you visit my area, you're using some Server to do it, and you can be on the same Server as your group of friends. And y'all can make a Copy-On-Write set of modifications to my blocks. And those blocks will stay, as long as your Server caches them. But no one else sees your changes.
Maybe add some minor annual fee to blocks, so that if someone abandons their blocks, that they fall back to the public domain.
If you want to get fancy, you allow block owners to set up royalties for visiting, and clients can set some rate limiters for how much they'll pay, and etc.
I get that Minecraft itself has licensing terms that prevent us from doing this, and especially if money changes hands. I get that people build things that infringe copyright, and the only reason it's tolerated is because money isn't changing hands. I get that if someone hosts this, they'll have to deal with DMCA copyright teardown notices, and etc. And I get that it's not like the true Metaverse where you randomly bump into people you don't know, and can make permanent changes to the world together.
But I just think it's bizarre that someone will make a really cool Minecraft map, and I can't explore it, even if I have money and I'm willing to pay a bit.
If this whole system came with the ability to click a URL to immediately appear in some blocks? I mean, I just think that would be so cool.
Okay, I saved my idea, and hopefully someone will implement something like it.
Each account could get a range of blocks allocated to them, after Credit Card validation, to prove you're a real person.
You could pay to own some more blocks.
The blocks you get are just a land grab.
You can trade blocks you own for blocks someone else owns, and there could be a monetary transaction to go with it.
You can build what you want to on your blocks.
How does all of this pay for itself? We set up Pay To Download blocks. If you want to fly around my creation, you can, and it just costs a little bit to do it.
For the blocks I control, my Server lets me make permanent changes to those blocks. I can let other people on my Server, and I can give them permission to help me make changes to those blocks. We can make a shared Access Control List, and pool our blocks together, and edit them together.
If you visit my area, you're using some Server to do it, and you can be on the same Server as your group of friends. And y'all can make a Copy-On-Write set of modifications to my blocks. And those blocks will stay, as long as your Server caches them. But no one else sees your changes.
Maybe add some minor annual fee to blocks, so that if someone abandons their blocks, that they fall back to the public domain.
If you want to get fancy, you allow block owners to set up royalties for visiting, and clients can set some rate limiters for how much they'll pay, and etc.
I get that Minecraft itself has licensing terms that prevent us from doing this, and especially if money changes hands. I get that people build things that infringe copyright, and the only reason it's tolerated is because money isn't changing hands. I get that if someone hosts this, they'll have to deal with DMCA copyright teardown notices, and etc. And I get that it's not like the true Metaverse where you randomly bump into people you don't know, and can make permanent changes to the world together.
But I just think it's bizarre that someone will make a really cool Minecraft map, and I can't explore it, even if I have money and I'm willing to pay a bit.
If this whole system came with the ability to click a URL to immediately appear in some blocks? I mean, I just think that would be so cool.
Okay, I saved my idea, and hopefully someone will implement something like it.
If you feel handicapped now without your cell phone, just imagine what's going to happen when you lose/break your AR headset you wear everywhere (hopefully except when sleep) or when the bionic implant Elon plugged into your brain stops working. Pay up peasant.
its actually roblox
Last year they were trying to hype XR (eXtended Reality). I guess that didn't fly and now they're trying to see if Metaverse will interest the target market.
Kids will love it for sure. It is indeed Minecraft, but with different/better graphics.
Kids will love it for sure. It is indeed Minecraft, but with different/better graphics.
The metaverse.. Made to make prople forget that they cant afford that resource getting scarce: space.
Escaping from the narrowness of a shitty appartment into the constriction of a vrheadset... Appealing.
Escaping from the narrowness of a shitty appartment into the constriction of a vrheadset... Appealing.
I really wonder how many adults > 25yrs and < 60yrs have the time to immerse themselves in any type of digital world / metaverse experience. If I was a teenager or in college, then yeah I can see it... but there are so many things to do in the 16hrs we have each day, and I already kick myself for not finishing that book, or getting an extra workout in, and just sitting in the backyard and resting my eyes. And I don't even have children...