Notch's Livestream for Ludum Dare 21(livestream.com)
livestream.com
Notch's Livestream for Ludum Dare 21
http://www.livestream.com/mojang
The stream has started, but notch hasn't begun coding yet at the time of this writing. Those of you who don't know what Ludum Dare is, can check their website at http://ludumdare.com/ - but TL;DR: rapid game dev competition, in 48 hours - Notch (maker of Minecraft) is streaming his participation this year.
25 comments
He's trying again at http://www.justin.tv/realnotch
Edit: Seems like many people having problems with it, but Notch is sticking with it. Would be awesome if the Justin.tv/Twitch.tv crew can jump in and help!
Edit: Seems like many people having problems with it, but Notch is sticking with it. Would be awesome if the Justin.tv/Twitch.tv crew can jump in and help!
Odd when I try to load it the url jumps back and forth between twitch.tv and justin.tv and never sticks on either.
Obviously a bug, i got there from twitch.tv now and have the same problem.
http://www.twitch.tv/realnotch
Edit: Delete your cookies/privatewindow and go there with the twitch domain above now it works.
http://www.twitch.tv/realnotch
Edit: Delete your cookies/privatewindow and go there with the twitch domain above now it works.
I just get redirected to twitch.tv, is it being streamed on both or only twitch.tv now?
Max number of streams reached for my country. Who knew there are so many Notch fans in Estonia.
Just watch on twitch where there are no limits.
This is amazing. Currently there are 12000 people tuned to watch a man program live. Who would have thought that would ever happen... live streaming programming.
I'd pay money for a 24-hour channel of various programmers, known and unknown, livestreaming. Does this exist already?
Would be interesting to have a recording of the linux kernel programmers, could release a 'Best of Code 3.1'... offering football highlights of coding :)
I wonder who would pay to watch Carmack and others code on a regular basis..
I wonder who would pay to watch Carmack and others code on a regular basis..
Problem is if we only saw him diving into Rage source code and tweaking stuff, that wouldn't teach us much.
Plus Rage and other commercial stuff would be under NDA, so no chance of watching any coding on such projects. Big and popular open source projects would definitely work though, IMHO.
you may have to pay for it. he just closed the stream because he realized the 17000 viewers would equal a huge bill from livestream.
It's hugely fascinating to watch & listen to him brainstorm on the type of game he wants to build. This is awesome.
I have lost count of the number of things I learned. Particularly new ways of doing things.
Can you list some of them?
The concept of editing the game loop code while the game is still running is new to me (even though apparently this has been around for a long time).
The concept of editing the game loop code while the game is still running is new to me (even though apparently this has been around for a long time).
Using a paint program as a level editor is something more people should be exposed to.
You can do that with TuxRacer, if you just want to play with the idea. http://tuxracer.sourceforge.net/faq.html#newcourses
I didn't watch the full stream, only an excerpt from the middle. Do you know how that works? That really fascinated me.
For a little bit technical overview have a look at http://wiki.eclipse.org/FAQ_What_is_hot_code_replace%3F
Thanks! Just what I searched for!
Yep. Hot code loading is something I do every day in Erlang and couldn't live without :)
That is the craziest awesome thing i've seen while watching. It never occurred to me, but its so simply brilliant!
This is a great idea. Uncle bob[1] had filmed himself a few times (I've learned a few tricks this way), but making it real time is a lot more engaging.
[1] http://vimeo.com/7762511
[1] http://vimeo.com/7762511
He just ended the stream when he checked his usage report on Livestream.com.
Apparently he had racked up 17,000 viewer hours so far and said the cost was getting way out of hand. I'm trying to see how much that is going to cost him.
It would be cool if we could get Livestream to sponsor him perhaps as a way to promote their service?
Apparently he had racked up 17,000 viewer hours so far and said the cost was getting way out of hand. I'm trying to see how much that is going to cost him.
It would be cool if we could get Livestream to sponsor him perhaps as a way to promote their service?
We're offering him 100% free service on TwitchTV. In fact, he'll MAKE money through our partner program.
Since we already have a massive Minecraft casting community, I think it's a logical place for him to do it: http://twitch.tv/directory/Minecraft
Since we already have a massive Minecraft casting community, I think it's a logical place for him to do it: http://twitch.tv/directory/Minecraft
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http://www.livestream.com/estimator
Enter "mojang" there to see the cost.
Enter "mojang" there to see the cost.
Thats pretty crazy. over 15k USD
He makes about €172,493 in sales a day (source: http://www.minecraft.net/stats.jsp). $15,000 is relatively nothing to him.
He makes a lot of money, therefore he should throw money into a fire.
Snarky remarks aside...
The cost estimator basically says the incremental cost is $0.27/hour. That's pretty expensive for what is, in this case, basically bare streaming infrastructure (livestream adds some value, but not much for this particular use case).
The essential functionality could be easily replicated on e.g. Amazon EC2 at less than half, maybe even 1/3rd, the incremental cost even as a one-off thing.
Even now, as a not-particularly-wealthy person, I'm often willing to pay extra for convenience, but I just don't see ever being willing to pay 3x the cost of doing it myself for a non-mission-critical application, especially when there are even cheaper options like twitch.
The cost estimator basically says the incremental cost is $0.27/hour. That's pretty expensive for what is, in this case, basically bare streaming infrastructure (livestream adds some value, but not much for this particular use case).
The essential functionality could be easily replicated on e.g. Amazon EC2 at less than half, maybe even 1/3rd, the incremental cost even as a one-off thing.
Even now, as a not-particularly-wealthy person, I'm often willing to pay extra for convenience, but I just don't see ever being willing to pay 3x the cost of doing it myself for a non-mission-critical application, especially when there are even cheaper options like twitch.
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Holy shit.
The stream has started, but notch hasn't begun coding yet at the time of this writing (so don't be scared by the still screen).
Those of you who don't know what Ludum Dare is, can check their website at http://ludumdare.com/ - but TL;DR: rapid game dev competition, in 48 hours - Notch (maker of Minecraft) is streaming his participation this year.
Those of you who don't know what Ludum Dare is, can check their website at http://ludumdare.com/ - but TL;DR: rapid game dev competition, in 48 hours - Notch (maker of Minecraft) is streaming his participation this year.
Does anyone know what he's making? I just tuned in 30 minutes ago, and he's been focused on getting his RenderWall function to work. Has he said what his eventual plan is at all?
He just said, "The funny with my Lundum Dare entries is I never have any idea what game I'm making while I'm doing it."
It looks like his changes appear in the game window without rebuilding the program. Is that what everyone else is seeing? Is this a technique I should know about?
Hotswap bug fixing is the Java term for it. .NET calls it Edit and Continue. Much the same thing has existed in Smalltalk and Lisp etc. for much longer.
It's particularly well suited for things like a game loop or a server, because it works best (or rather usually, only) when the code you're editing is not on the stack.
It's particularly well suited for things like a game loop or a server, because it works best (or rather usually, only) when the code you're editing is not on the stack.
Are you still limited to method bodies? It seems reasonable that the method signatures and object layouts couldn't be modified because that would invalidate a lot of code already in memory and that may already be optimized.
See JRebel mentioned by the other poster for more dramatic modification.
It's basically edit and continue in debug mode.
He is using JRebel i guess.
Notch just talked about how it was going to be super expensive to do this, and changed the quality of the stream to low to hopefully counteract that somehow?
That seems crazy to me, we all want to watch this and it's costing him money to do us that favor? Seemingly he's also driving traffic to livestream, is it because he has no ads or something?
That seems crazy to me, we all want to watch this and it's costing him money to do us that favor? Seemingly he's also driving traffic to livestream, is it because he has no ads or something?
Would you (should he) ever commit to a VCS working at this speed?
This reminds me of the Hackontest (http://hackontest.org) (Disclaimer: I was working there for/on OpenLieroX.)
We were filmed all the 24h via webcam and all our screens were recorded also via VNC and inside the OpenExpo, one could watch us coding live.
I don't really find much records of it though but here are two videos (sadly not the VNC records):
http://www.etoy.com/blog/archive/2008/09/26/hackontest.html
http://technocrat.net/video/Hackontest/2.mpg
I find it very instructive to actually watch other people coding.
We were filmed all the 24h via webcam and all our screens were recorded also via VNC and inside the OpenExpo, one could watch us coding live.
I don't really find much records of it though but here are two videos (sadly not the VNC records):
http://www.etoy.com/blog/archive/2008/09/26/hackontest.html
http://technocrat.net/video/Hackontest/2.mpg
I find it very instructive to actually watch other people coding.
I'd be very interested to look at live editing of experienced vim hacker to steal some tips.
Check out peepcode.com - the "Play by Play" series with Zed Shaw and Gary Bernhardt.
The videos are not specifically dedicated to vim tips and tricks but since the programming is done on vim you should be able to find something interesting.
He seems to be using vim emulation on Eclipse, no?
Well, it’s a bit too early, isn’t it? Here’s a time-lapse from a year ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV-AFnCkRLY
at 18:31 utc he closed the stream because the number of viewers would equal a huge streaming bill for him :(
he mentions that he found streaming on justin.tv would also be too expensive.
i for one would pay to have famous coders streaming in the background while i code myself.
he mentions that he found streaming on justin.tv would also be too expensive.
i for one would pay to have famous coders streaming in the background while i code myself.
It's actually really interesting to see the thought process and programming technique of a respected dev from start to finish of a project. I'm sure I'll learn a lot, more people should do this.
Going to keep it on the secondary monitor.
Going to keep it on the secondary monitor.
The iPad stream is surprisingly good. Very high quality, and makes for a great way to keep up with this while working on other things.
Please don't start taking programming tips from Mojang employees.
Explain why?
Because Minecraft is a very buggy, poorly designed product. Notch is only "respected" as a programmer by people who have never looked into his programming.
Well it's good enough to make him a very rich man. Oh and when did you get a chance to look at his code and designs?
So because someone is rich that makes them a good programmer? I have done some projects with the Minecraft SMP protocol (which is awful), and I write plugins for it. So yeah, I know a bit about its design.
"Not everything worth doing, is worth doing well" -- _Soul_of_a_new_machine_
"Unfortunately, mojang has been permanently deleted. All of mojang's videos will no longer be available."
Did they just kick him off? Cause I didn't hear him say anything about taking the stream offline.
Did they just kick him off? Cause I didn't hear him say anything about taking the stream offline.
He terminated it himself: http://twitter.com/#!/notch
"I deleted the channel myself to stop any further costs. It got WAAAY out of hand, haha"
via twitter
via twitter
Its amazing to watch him build this. I also find it inspiring that he is still doing this because he simply loves building games despite the fact he has made millions with minecraft already.
The host for the Ludum Dare website has taken them down for using too much CPU.
https://twitter.com/#!/ludumdare
https://twitter.com/#!/ludumdare
It seems Notch finished the game. He uploaded it here: http://s3.amazonaws.com/ld48/index.html
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He just stopped the stream due to the cost. I'd be very curious to know what the actual numbers were.
Going by their pricing page and the 17000 viewer hours he mentioned before cutting out, I'd guess a couple of thousand dollars, ouch! http://www.livestream.com/platform/premium_features_and_pric...
edit: it's more like $8000-15,000 (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2907135)
edit: it's more like $8000-15,000 (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2907135)
http://www.livestream.com/platform/premium_features_and_pric...
There are various plans, but 17000 viewer hours at 3hours per dollar ish? Not cheap.
There are various plans, but 17000 viewer hours at 3hours per dollar ish? Not cheap.
He said he was at 17,000 viewer hours. I'm not sure what plan he's using but if it was the professional one that'd be
17,000 * $0.27 = $4590!
17,000 * $0.27 = $4590!
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You can notice he is really in the flow right now.
Anyone live-blogging this?
anyone know what music he's listening to on the live feed?
He was listening to Cliqhop on SOMA.fm a while ago. Now it's some other online radio (I could only make "miss * kiss dot com").
I caught: DJ Anna Kiss, http://www.facebook.com/missannakiss
She DJs a bunch of different internet radio programs. Gotta go find which one it is. :)
She DJs a bunch of different internet radio programs. Gotta go find which one it is. :)
"Flip the 'y'.. (Wh)y not, hehe" - Nice programming pun :)
"Let's flip the y... y not!? ehehehe"