The Clean Network – United States Department of State(state.gov)
state.gov
The Clean Network – United States Department of State
https://www.state.gov/5g-clean-network/
391 comments
This really comes off as a hastily prepared political dig against China, when there are in addition so many other actors and countries trying to take advantage of poor security. The JPEGed giant logo at the top doesn't help...
Other observations:
-- "Remove untrusted applications from US mobile app stores": so, this would call for even tighter control by Apple, Google, over its app distribution and monopolies?
-- Clean Apps: "Prevent untrusted PRC OEMs from installing trusted apps on their apps store... should remove apps to ensure they are not partnering with a human rights abuser." Umm, seriously, we're going to open this can of worms?
Edit to add a last thought:
I have yet to understand or read a coherent description about how we do not have the technical ability to protect against eavesdropping/etc regardless of who owns the physical hardware. Why is CCP-owned infrastructure uniquely susceptible to this? If we can't protect our transmissions with encryption, secure data storage techniques, what does it matter that the equipment is supplied by China? What unusual attack do they get access to by owning or manufacturing the equipment?
Other observations:
-- "Remove untrusted applications from US mobile app stores": so, this would call for even tighter control by Apple, Google, over its app distribution and monopolies?
-- Clean Apps: "Prevent untrusted PRC OEMs from installing trusted apps on their apps store... should remove apps to ensure they are not partnering with a human rights abuser." Umm, seriously, we're going to open this can of worms?
Edit to add a last thought:
I have yet to understand or read a coherent description about how we do not have the technical ability to protect against eavesdropping/etc regardless of who owns the physical hardware. Why is CCP-owned infrastructure uniquely susceptible to this? If we can't protect our transmissions with encryption, secure data storage techniques, what does it matter that the equipment is supplied by China? What unusual attack do they get access to by owning or manufacturing the equipment?
It looks like we are breaking the internet up along the lines of political boundaries. The US will have one internet, the EU another, China yet another... Hopefully the pendulum will swing back in the other direction soon...
> Huawei, an arm of the PRC surveillance state, is trading on the innovations and reputations of leading U.S. and foreign companies. These companies should remove their apps from Huawei’s app store to ensure they are not partnering with a human rights abuser.
So should European Companies also pull apps from Google and Apple?
I‘m all for standing up against the horrible human rights abuses of China, but it sounds unbelievably hollow from the US, which has a track record of putting their own interest before democracy and human rights abroad.
The whole website is pitched for other countries to join in, but I really don’t see that happening except maybe the UK and Canada.
So should European Companies also pull apps from Google and Apple?
I‘m all for standing up against the horrible human rights abuses of China, but it sounds unbelievably hollow from the US, which has a track record of putting their own interest before democracy and human rights abroad.
The whole website is pitched for other countries to join in, but I really don’t see that happening except maybe the UK and Canada.
Has anyone published the evidence of Huawei being an "arm of the PRC surveillance state"? I've seen a lot of claims and a lot of out-of-court-settled lawsuits, but nothing really showing that they're using their devices or software infrastructure for surveillance.
Oh jeez. No good can come from this Balkanization of the net. This is how Russia started its control.
Same playbook.
Same playbook.
If they weren't serious about this claptrap it would be downright hilarious. "Clean" means nothing, other than "Approved by us" which of course can mean anything they want, including shutting down anything they disagree with even internally, and changing day by day. In practicality there isn't much they can do legally to make any of this actually exist.
The intention of cutting out bad actors seems to be in the right place, but using "Clean" for the terminology is really unnecessarily inflammatory.
The US is ran & staffed by the hyper-partisan “Z-team” right now.
This is tragic & dangerous bc we need shrewd & wise people to make decisions + build coalitions in the opening decades of 21st century, not hyper-partisan kooks.
Some of the worst actors in cyber space rn is the Russian gov’t & their intelligence + “security” services —- it sure is funny (funny as in strange, not humorous) how difficult it is to get any of these apparatchiks to publicly acknowledge that
This is tragic & dangerous bc we need shrewd & wise people to make decisions + build coalitions in the opening decades of 21st century, not hyper-partisan kooks.
Some of the worst actors in cyber space rn is the Russian gov’t & their intelligence + “security” services —- it sure is funny (funny as in strange, not humorous) how difficult it is to get any of these apparatchiks to publicly acknowledge that
Why the hell does any of this have to be China specific? Tomorrow the bugbear could be anyone else
Like, we want clean networks free of foreign influence and sruveillance, full stop. Or are they implying that Five Eyes surveillance is good and OK?
Like, we want clean networks free of foreign influence and sruveillance, full stop. Or are they implying that Five Eyes surveillance is good and OK?
Behold! The Clean World Wide Web will be known as Patriot One Web or pow.
Are there any cybersecurity professionals on here who want to comment about the pros and cons of the network? I don't have the necessary expertise to ascertain the merits of it (actual threat vs. mitigated threat) but I don't like the "clean" verbiage. Nor do I like China's own longstanding protectionism and Great Firewall.
only the NSA is allowed to backdoor US networking hardware
If you're not already familiar with the history of labeling immigrants (particularly non-European immigrants) as unclean or dirty, I'd urge you to read up. This article seems to be a good start: https://journals.openedition.org/transtexts/1011
In short, calling this a "clean" network continues a long history of racist and xenophobic language in the U.S.
In short, calling this a "clean" network continues a long history of racist and xenophobic language in the U.S.
What's up with the incredible low resolution jpeg at the top of the article? It really stands out from the other images ( which seem fine )
Amazing how end-to-end encryption would solve all the problems they claim to care about here.
Follow the link in "Digital Trust Standards" to the "Criteria for Security and Trust in Telecommunications Networks and Services" (https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publi...). Political & Governance Criteria numbers 8 and 9 would seem to present problems for companies in the UK and US, both of which require suppliers to cooperate with the government in secret and unchallengeable ways.
So the country whose national security and intelligence agencies have gathered the largest database of sensitive information in the world is proposing to "safeguard sensitive information from aggressive intrusions by malign actors"... If U.S. is some kind of role model / example for other countries to follow (in terms of freedoms, democracy, prosperity, etc) then other countries will also gather sensitive information to the largest extent possible... So this "we can, but you shouldn't" is just a shameless hypocrisy. What would the U.S. founding fathers say to all this? Is there any William Penn living in the U.S. today to give basic freedoms like privacy back to the people? Or will the "controlling party" take everything away - including the freedom to think and say?
Chinese government mandated pre-installed spyware on all phones made in China is certainly a huge problem.
But on the other hand, isn't it a violation of First Amendment protections if the US government can dictate certain apps aren't allowed to be distributed in the US?
Since software's subject to copyright, doesn't it logically follow that banning software is legally similar to banning a book?
But on the other hand, isn't it a violation of First Amendment protections if the US government can dictate certain apps aren't allowed to be distributed in the US?
Since software's subject to copyright, doesn't it logically follow that banning software is legally similar to banning a book?
We now have our own "Great Firewall"
This writing is so Orwellian it seems like a parody
Isn't it ridiculously easy to set up attacks from within a "clean" network? It probably does increase costs marginally (you have to fly people to "clean" countries, set up ISP access with third parties, etc) but are there any public estimates how much it does that vs the increased costs to run this network? I would think it's marginal.
Seeing the partner list this seems like more of a ploy by telecoms to attack tech companies than any legitimate attempt to secure networks.
> To prevent U.S. citizens’ most sensitive personal information and our businesses’ most valuable intellectual property, including COVID-19 vaccine research, from being stored and processed on cloud-based systems accessible to our foreign adversaries through companies such as Alibaba, Baidu, China Mobile, China Telecom, and Tencent.
Am I missing something?
Seeing the partner list this seems like more of a ploy by telecoms to attack tech companies than any legitimate attempt to secure networks.
> To prevent U.S. citizens’ most sensitive personal information and our businesses’ most valuable intellectual property, including COVID-19 vaccine research, from being stored and processed on cloud-based systems accessible to our foreign adversaries through companies such as Alibaba, Baidu, China Mobile, China Telecom, and Tencent.
Am I missing something?
I am surprised it did not make bigger news. I am genuinely annoyed that US, of all places, is contributing to the splintering of the internet as we knew it.
But what surprises me more people are not up in arms about it. I mean, who would not love only government approved code floating around and only child appropriate messages being visible before 10PM.
If there is a real reason to dislike this administration, this is it.
But what surprises me more people are not up in arms about it. I mean, who would not love only government approved code floating around and only child appropriate messages being visible before 10PM.
If there is a real reason to dislike this administration, this is it.
This is disgusting. Anybody working at an American firm that's supporting this initiative should be ashamed. Anybody working on this project is actively contributing to the destruction of international trust and cooperation.
I am beyond disgusted at my government. This Republican administration has been an unprecedented disaster on every front.
I am beyond disgusted at my government. This Republican administration has been an unprecedented disaster on every front.
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The link is now returning 404.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200808170849/https://www.state...
https://web.archive.org/web/20200808170849/https://www.state...
Well, that's terrifying. I wouldn't be surprised if they get away with it though.
I support the unity of all nations. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.
Can we get a clean government? Free from hyper-partisan politics, where there can be more than two sides and folks on other sides are still on the same overall team and not the enemy?
Together we stand, divided we fall.
Together we stand, divided we fall.
Fuck. This is really terrifying. The internet has connected all of us, which has been mostly for the better, and these idiots want to ruin it. I really hope none of this shit sees the light of day.
"We call on all freedom-loving nations and companies to join the Clean Network." is a sentence straight out of an authoritarian playbook. Top-down imposition of standards is not what made America's melting pot great. Free and open discourse, with redundant structures designed to ensure that governance required the consent of the governed, did.
Furthermore, State is a decade or more behind the game. It is my impression that modern companies that care about security assume that all networks are compromised and act accordingly. See https://cloud.google.com/beyondcorp as an example.
Balkanizing the Internet will not make us free; we will instead tie our own hands. This is not the same as banning the import of presumed-compromised hardware.
Vote.