Ask HN: Diaspora hasn't updated their blog in a month.
Anyone know what's up? By now they're apparently supposed to have awesome user interfaces. Hope they're set to launch by September.
57 comments
Those poor, poor guys. Nobody deserves their awful fate: To have to try to invent an audacious new startup, with a hazily defined product that is bound to let half of the audience down when it doesn't have unicorns and rainbows, all the while living in a fishbowl, surrounded on all sides by a mob six thousand strong, a mob made of people who feel that, having kicked in thirty whole US dollars, they deserve something awesome.
It's not just a bad idea. It's really cruel. I have been to a first-rate grad school. I have read Pepper White's The Idea Factory, a book which gave me nightmares and made me want to travel across the campus offering hugs to every grad student I could find. And thus I have seen some of the best minds of my generation driven into near-suicidal depression by their self-perceived inability to live up to their expectations of greatness, or their parents' expectations, or their own perception of their parents' expectations. And these are people without an audience of thousands.
So I'm really afraid for these Diaspora guys. Way too much spotlight, way too soon. Startup ideas fail; that is what they do most of the time. Are these guys going to be given room to fail a few times? Or are they ultimately going to need therapy?
Let me try to help: If the Diaspora team gets together at the end of September and puts on a Youtube production of Springtime for Hitler I'll send them fifty bucks. If they ship some software as well, I'll make it sixty.
It's not just a bad idea. It's really cruel. I have been to a first-rate grad school. I have read Pepper White's The Idea Factory, a book which gave me nightmares and made me want to travel across the campus offering hugs to every grad student I could find. And thus I have seen some of the best minds of my generation driven into near-suicidal depression by their self-perceived inability to live up to their expectations of greatness, or their parents' expectations, or their own perception of their parents' expectations. And these are people without an audience of thousands.
So I'm really afraid for these Diaspora guys. Way too much spotlight, way too soon. Startup ideas fail; that is what they do most of the time. Are these guys going to be given room to fail a few times? Or are they ultimately going to need therapy?
Let me try to help: If the Diaspora team gets together at the end of September and puts on a Youtube production of Springtime for Hitler I'll send them fifty bucks. If they ship some software as well, I'll make it sixty.
Even though I didn't donate, I'm cheering for the team and their undertaking. Best of luck to them.
Your reference to Springtime to Hitler brings another question: have there been known cases of startups who raised money with intention to fail, The Producers-style?
(To clarify, this is obviously not a reference to Diaspora, just a tangential question.)
Your reference to Springtime to Hitler brings another question: have there been known cases of startups who raised money with intention to fail, The Producers-style?
(To clarify, this is obviously not a reference to Diaspora, just a tangential question.)
Yes, there are known cases. Here are a few:
"Some of these schemes were plausible enough, and, had they been undertaken at a time when the public mind was unexcited, might have been pursued with advantage to all concerned. But they were established merely with the view of raising the shares in the market. The projectors took the first opportunity of a rise to sell out, and next morning the scheme was at an end. Maitland, in his History of London, gravely informs us, that one of the projects which received great encouragement, was for the establishment of a company "to make deal boards out of saw-dust." This is no doubt intended as a joke; but there is abundance of evidence to shew that dozens of schemes, hardly a whit more reasonable, lived their little day, ruining hundreds ere they fell. One of them was for a wheel for perpetual motion—capital, one million..."
"But the most absurd and preposterous of all, and which shewed, more completely than any other, the utter madness of the people, was one started by an unknown adventurer, entitled 'A company for carrying on an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is.' Were not the fact stated by scores of credible witnesses, it would be impossible to believe that any person could have been duped by such a project. The man of genius who essayed this bold and successful inroad upon public credulity, merely stated in his prospectus that the required capital was half a million, in five thousand shares of 100l. each, deposit 2l. per share. Each subscriber, paying his deposit, would be entitled to 100l. per annum per share. How this immense profit was to be obtained, he did not condescend to inform them at that time, but promised that in a month full particulars should be duly announced, and a call made for the remaining 98l. of the subscription. Next morning, at nine o'clock, this great man opened an office in Cornhill. Crowds of people beset his door, and when he shut up at three o'clock, he found that no less than one thousand shares had been subscribed for, and the deposits paid. He was thus, in five hours, the winner of 2,000l. He was philosopher enough to be contented with his venture, and set off the same evening for the Continent. He was never heard of again."
This, of course, is Mackay's account of the South Sea Bubble of 1720. There are countless subsequent examples.
(By the way, in case it isn't obvious: I am convinced that the Diaspora guys are absolutely serious and above-board. That is why it might be amusing to pretend otherwise.
And I'm rooting for them too. That's why I'm engaged in the vital project of talking down expectations. How else are they supposed to make a splash at this point?)
"Some of these schemes were plausible enough, and, had they been undertaken at a time when the public mind was unexcited, might have been pursued with advantage to all concerned. But they were established merely with the view of raising the shares in the market. The projectors took the first opportunity of a rise to sell out, and next morning the scheme was at an end. Maitland, in his History of London, gravely informs us, that one of the projects which received great encouragement, was for the establishment of a company "to make deal boards out of saw-dust." This is no doubt intended as a joke; but there is abundance of evidence to shew that dozens of schemes, hardly a whit more reasonable, lived their little day, ruining hundreds ere they fell. One of them was for a wheel for perpetual motion—capital, one million..."
"But the most absurd and preposterous of all, and which shewed, more completely than any other, the utter madness of the people, was one started by an unknown adventurer, entitled 'A company for carrying on an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is.' Were not the fact stated by scores of credible witnesses, it would be impossible to believe that any person could have been duped by such a project. The man of genius who essayed this bold and successful inroad upon public credulity, merely stated in his prospectus that the required capital was half a million, in five thousand shares of 100l. each, deposit 2l. per share. Each subscriber, paying his deposit, would be entitled to 100l. per annum per share. How this immense profit was to be obtained, he did not condescend to inform them at that time, but promised that in a month full particulars should be duly announced, and a call made for the remaining 98l. of the subscription. Next morning, at nine o'clock, this great man opened an office in Cornhill. Crowds of people beset his door, and when he shut up at three o'clock, he found that no less than one thousand shares had been subscribed for, and the deposits paid. He was thus, in five hours, the winner of 2,000l. He was philosopher enough to be contented with his venture, and set off the same evening for the Continent. He was never heard of again."
This, of course, is Mackay's account of the South Sea Bubble of 1720. There are countless subsequent examples.
(By the way, in case it isn't obvious: I am convinced that the Diaspora guys are absolutely serious and above-board. That is why it might be amusing to pretend otherwise.
And I'm rooting for them too. That's why I'm engaged in the vital project of talking down expectations. How else are they supposed to make a splash at this point?)
There are hundreds of technology 'startups' out there that exist to fleece investors. None of them go out with a bang as in The Producers, because it's far more lucrative to maintain the illusion of a technology perpetually on the cusp of commercialization so they can continue raising round after round of fresh investments.
Examples:
-Phantom Entertainment
-Moller International
-Blacklight Power
Examples:
-Phantom Entertainment
-Moller International
-Blacklight Power
I definitely empathize with the feeling of having too much attention too soon. That said, I think there are worse predicaments to be in - at the worst, their product flops or never comes out fully-baked, but they had the funds to live on during that process and will doubtless have learned a lot.
I hate to say it, but this is what happens when you have a bunch of people, who have no idea what early stage investing is like, and have them invest in an early stage company. It results in:
* the wrong amount of money being given
* extremely high expectations
* 24 / 7 monitoring, with anger if any tiny mistake is made
* the wrong amount of money being given
* extremely high expectations
* 24 / 7 monitoring, with anger if any tiny mistake is made
BTW, Diaspora isn't a company and nobody invested in it. Donating to an open source project != early-stage investing.
In Diaspora's case, I suspect many of the donors have low expectations and are not monitoring the project carefully, because it doesn't make sense to spend much time following up on a $20 donation.
In Diaspora's case, I suspect many of the donors have low expectations and are not monitoring the project carefully, because it doesn't make sense to spend much time following up on a $20 donation.
Joe Soap who donated might not be monitoring, but the media are. Diaspora was mentioned on the New York Times IIRC. They are going to want to do a follow up, even if it's "Facebook 'killer' is a dud"
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I dunno, no one made them set out the promises they chose to make, that was their own decision.
Still, I suspect that Kickstarter will suffer more than the Diaspora guys if Diaspora fails.
Still, I suspect that Kickstarter will suffer more than the Diaspora guys if Diaspora fails.
"I dunno, no one made them set out the promises they chose to make, that was their own decision."
Some people have a lot of problems dealing with peer pressure, and are willing to make promises because they think that's what people expect of them, not necessarily because they're convinced they can actually deliver.
Sure, they could have chosen not to make those promises, but you have to put it into context.
Some people have a lot of problems dealing with peer pressure, and are willing to make promises because they think that's what people expect of them, not necessarily because they're convinced they can actually deliver.
Sure, they could have chosen not to make those promises, but you have to put it into context.
I am not sure about that. I think, at least, in this tech community that people forgot about Kickstarter and are focusing on Diaspora now. (Granted, I did not donate any money so I am not fiscally tied to Diaspora.)
I think Kickstarter is an awesome website and I really hope they don't get any ill will towards them due to the possible failure of Diaspora.
I think Kickstarter is an awesome website and I really hope they don't get any ill will towards them due to the possible failure of Diaspora.
Agreed. Because the next people who have to make this decision will be able to look at Diaspora as a model of what could happen next.
EDIT: removed the mini-rant since it clearly was not understood.
My own take: wake me when they've shipped real, working software I can actually use to replace Facebook while controlling my own data's access rights and durability. Until then, this is still pretty much another case of a few guys making a piece of software somewhere, that may or may not ship, that may or may not succeed, and they started only a month ago. Yawn.
My own take: wake me when they've shipped real, working software I can actually use to replace Facebook while controlling my own data's access rights and durability. Until then, this is still pretty much another case of a few guys making a piece of software somewhere, that may or may not ship, that may or may not succeed, and they started only a month ago. Yawn.
Can't a guy engage in some simple hyperbole without it turning into the Four Yorkshiremen sketch? ;)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2255807183978932387#
But I'll say three serious things:
1) Yes, of course nearly everybody in the world is worse off than these guys.
2) No, such facts do nothing to cheer anybody up, however factual they may be:
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/richard-cory/
3) Empathy is not a zero-sum game, in which giving it to one person implies that you must withhold it from another. Rather, empathy is like a muscle: If you work it, it gets stronger. The opposite is also true: If one makes a habit of sneering at the pain of the rich, one may soon find oneself sneering at the pain of the poor as well. Practice makes perfect.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2255807183978932387#
But I'll say three serious things:
1) Yes, of course nearly everybody in the world is worse off than these guys.
2) No, such facts do nothing to cheer anybody up, however factual they may be:
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/richard-cory/
3) Empathy is not a zero-sum game, in which giving it to one person implies that you must withhold it from another. Rather, empathy is like a muscle: If you work it, it gets stronger. The opposite is also true: If one makes a habit of sneering at the pain of the rich, one may soon find oneself sneering at the pain of the poor as well. Practice makes perfect.
I'm going to assume that by 'White People' you mean 'upper middle class'. This is based on my notion that Caucasians can suffer from cancer, starve to death, or live in Detroit with 2 crack addicts for parents.
Presumably it's a reference to this site:
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/
And, yes, that is what it means. I guess http://stufftheuppermiddleclasslikes.com didn't test as well.
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/
And, yes, that is what it means. I guess http://stufftheuppermiddleclasslikes.com didn't test as well.
Okay... how does it reference that? I thought that site was about sandwiches or something. I'll take this as an example of mixing up race and economic class, I guess.
I think that's completely the wrong offer. As you just said, they have way too much money.
What they need is some solid UI people to come take a look, and a few backend people wouldn't hurt either. They probably have something right now, they're just terrified of launching. What they need is a safe group to beta-test with who can help clean up some of the rough edges.
What they need is some solid UI people to come take a look, and a few backend people wouldn't hurt either. They probably have something right now, they're just terrified of launching. What they need is a safe group to beta-test with who can help clean up some of the rough edges.
Well, I was thinking of offering them actual beer instead of money, but I don't want to be accused of enabling anything. When you're trying to stave off depression, handing out depressants does not help, even if they are really tasty depressants.
That said, if they don't want the money I'll bake a cake instead.
Your serious advice is, of course, perfectly fine, if serious advice is what the project actually needs. If, however, what the project needs is fewer expectations and more whimsy, I offer my services. I am a very poor substitute for _why, but open source projects must make do with what they can get.
That said, if they don't want the money I'll bake a cake instead.
Your serious advice is, of course, perfectly fine, if serious advice is what the project actually needs. If, however, what the project needs is fewer expectations and more whimsy, I offer my services. I am a very poor substitute for _why, but open source projects must make do with what they can get.
They did post an update and are doing fine http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1593945
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving
hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the supernatural darkness of cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities contemplating jazz,
The best minds of all generations always suffer!
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the supernatural darkness of cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities contemplating jazz,
The best minds of all generations always suffer!
Er, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Did they promise to blog? Sounds like they didn't expect to:
http://www.joindiaspora.com/2010/05/31/a-little-more-than-24...
"You may not hear too much from us in the coming months and we will try our best to provide regular updates, but our silence means we are hard at work."
It's not like they had daily updates for weeks and then stopped. Since starting they've had one post. It appears intentional.
http://www.joindiaspora.com/2010/05/31/a-little-more-than-24...
"You may not hear too much from us in the coming months and we will try our best to provide regular updates, but our silence means we are hard at work."
It's not like they had daily updates for weeks and then stopped. Since starting they've had one post. It appears intentional.
They sure are operating more like a dot-com vaporware startup than an open source project. I understand not releasing code right away, there's reasons for that, but why no specifics about their approach? Why is everything about this project a guessing game?
A few Fridays a month I feel like blasting the following message to a few people. I think the Diaspora guys would love to FWD it to anybody inquiring about their lack of blog posts:
"Guys,
Our meeting on Friday at 4PM still stands. I will submit the deliverables by then and you will have 5 business days to evaluate my work. In the meantime, it would be super-nice if I didn't have to make daily statements, as the conference calls and meetings are taking up a lot of my energy and time. My work is documented, to the extent that any competent developer can dive-in and understand the gist of it immediately. At the moment, I am unable to communicate our progress to several people, at several different levels of technical sophistication, at the same time. So I would really appreciate it if you let me get this done, at once, and we talk about it afterwards.
Regards
- mahmud"
"Guys,
Our meeting on Friday at 4PM still stands. I will submit the deliverables by then and you will have 5 business days to evaluate my work. In the meantime, it would be super-nice if I didn't have to make daily statements, as the conference calls and meetings are taking up a lot of my energy and time. My work is documented, to the extent that any competent developer can dive-in and understand the gist of it immediately. At the moment, I am unable to communicate our progress to several people, at several different levels of technical sophistication, at the same time. So I would really appreciate it if you let me get this done, at once, and we talk about it afterwards.
Regards
- mahmud"
So you feel like doing it -- but you are not doing it, right? Must have reasons. And I think one reason may be that nobody will listen and stay off your back for 5 business days.
What are the other reasons?
What are the other reasons?
Meanwhile, the Appleseed Project has been posting regular updates all summer. Their roadmap, SVN, and documentation is available to everyone, and they've been building the software since 2004.
http://opensource.appleseedproject.org
http://opensource.appleseedproject.org
Actually they did post an update already at the Federated Social Web summit and they showed some nice progress, they have almost full ostatus compatibility. There's a pdf of their presentation here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15865/diaspora_pres.pdf
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15865/diaspora_pres.pdf
Thanks for the pdf!
Didn't know that they were using eventmachine and ruby. Lovely choice
I have nothing against RoR, but I don't think it is a good choice for the goal of having an easy self-install application. If you look at the popular self-install apps, such as Wordpress, PHPBB, Drupal, etc. they are all written in PHP. There is a lot more small-scale hosting support for PHP, especially because of mod_php. Dump all the files in a public directory, fire up the URL and presto. While there are some RoR hosting providers who can do this, most of the target audience (ie. semi-literate tech people) are more accustomed to being able to install a PHP app.
I use RoR, but if I had to build a product that users would install on a server and run themselves, I would probably build it in PHP, despite the other known disadvantages.
I use RoR, but if I had to build a product that users would install on a server and run themselves, I would probably build it in PHP, despite the other known disadvantages.
Just because most PHP projects waste a bunch of time writing complicated installers doesn't mean you couldn't do the same with a RoR app. Familiarity can be a dangerous thing anyway, and installers are something to be avoided. Instead we should strive for a simple, single step deploy process. Heroku has already solved this with git and a rubygem.
What's wrong with Passenger (mod_rails)? There's not really a difference to mod_php in terms of deployment, especially if you're not altering the software.
My guess is they've all got their heads down trying to hit that deadline.
Also my thought, but then I got thinking: how long does it take to pump out a single blog post with an update?
A well-worded and thoughtful blog post takes time and effort. It also interrupts other development work, which the context switching makes doubly costly. So I don't think it's a "15 minutes over lunch" affair exactly.
It's also a good time to take stock of where you are in a project, and where you are heading. making yourself put your progress into words forces you to think about the overall view. We started an internal blog/status report page for our projects, and simply writing a post - even if it's basically to myself - is helpful.
15 minutes that would be better spent writing code? :)
don't get your panties in a bunch. chill out. leave them alone and let them work.
Hey Diaspora, if your reading this...GO GET 'EM! You guys will do great.
A lot of people seem to be concentrating on this idea that having a lot of money is bad for these guys. I'm on the other side of the fence. History favors companies that have taken money. And unlike any investment round I've ever participated in, they gave up no equity to fundraise. They also have a gaggle of really awesome, very experienced mentors helping them. I think they will be fine. I'm rooting for them. REALLY rooting for them. They're just nose down in code with the door shut and the phone off the hook. Good on ya.
A lot of people seem to be concentrating on this idea that having a lot of money is bad for these guys. I'm on the other side of the fence. History favors companies that have taken money. And unlike any investment round I've ever participated in, they gave up no equity to fundraise. They also have a gaggle of really awesome, very experienced mentors helping them. I think they will be fine. I'm rooting for them. REALLY rooting for them. They're just nose down in code with the door shut and the phone off the hook. Good on ya.
September was clearly quite unrealistic, from the perspective of a developer who was previously in the habit of making unrealistic project time forecasts.
NEVER believe anyone who says this, that etc. can be done in three months. I don't believe people who insist 'I wrote this and this in a weekend!' either. Yeah, you and that library that took three months to write. Six-nine months would make sense for a project like this, at least if you're planning on ending up with something worth using.
NEVER believe anyone who says this, that etc. can be done in three months. I don't believe people who insist 'I wrote this and this in a weekend!' either. Yeah, you and that library that took three months to write. Six-nine months would make sense for a project like this, at least if you're planning on ending up with something worth using.
I've already forgotten about diaspora (such a weird word to say). Hopefully when they release it really is something amazing and they prove every naysayer wrong. And if it really is great, mainstream media needs to pick it up like they picked up twitter, then we have real competition.
I have my doubts though.
I have my doubts though.
Did you give them money? Those people probably haven't forgotten. The problem is that they are on the hook for something that's effectively impossible, with limited options for getting out of the situation.
C'mon, while they have a very good idea in theory, I don't think it could work. The general public is not quite ready. It's too technical to host your own node and there won't be a critical mass who can figure out how.
Actually, when I heard their idea, my thought was 'Wow, I could write that. It'd take a long time, but I could do it. Wish I'd thought of it first.'
With enough work, it would be as easy to set up (or easier) than any other blog. The connections to other diaspora instances would be as easy as logging into OpenID... Just visit their page, put in your URL, request a link, and wait for the other person to grant it. It could also be done the other way with putting their link into your blog, and having the backend take care of it. I'm sure there are other ways, too.
So yeah, it could work. Not in that short amount of time, but it could work.
With enough work, it would be as easy to set up (or easier) than any other blog. The connections to other diaspora instances would be as easy as logging into OpenID... Just visit their page, put in your URL, request a link, and wait for the other person to grant it. It could also be done the other way with putting their link into your blog, and having the backend take care of it. I'm sure there are other ways, too.
So yeah, it could work. Not in that short amount of time, but it could work.
Unless they sell some sort of Sheeva plug with everything already installed (with configuration and automatic updates). That could be easier than Facebook.
And they wouldn't need the critical mass: the plug computer could come with a blog engine, bittorrent (client and tracker), a mail server for the family… It could be the Eben Moglen's freedom box that inspired them to start Diaspora in the first place.
And they wouldn't need the critical mass: the plug computer could come with a blog engine, bittorrent (client and tracker), a mail server for the family… It could be the Eben Moglen's freedom box that inspired them to start Diaspora in the first place.
I think the bigger problem is how do you find friends on it? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand how you will be able to search the network for people you know.
Figuring that out is part of their challenge!
They will offer a hosted option.
I don't know if I'm being naive, but I thought the main reason Diaspora is open source is so that other hackers can improve on it. Failure of an open source project is a failure of all hackers interested in it.
Does anybody think the Diaspora nodes might be rife with illegal filesharing? Might that not put people off hosting?
Diaspora is a just faster carriage. We need a starship to satisfy our exponentially rising expectations.
I find your site hilarious. http://livgiv.com/
its a rough version 0. A much improved version 1 is being put up tomorrow. I'll be the last one laughing. :)
I kinda feel bad for these guys. People need to stufu and relax. Like, go troll github for a project to contribute to and just leave people alone till they have something to say. Especially you, mattwdelong.