Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?(avsincities.bloomberg.org)
avsincities.bloomberg.org
Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?
http://avsincities.bloomberg.org/
30 comments
IMO, making it easier to drive will increase the number of people who commute. There isn’t enough space to add extra lanes to facilitate the increase in traffic these vehicles will cause. I think we should be working on other transportation problems.
Agree 100%. Making driving easier and more convenient isn’t going to solve our transit problems, it’s going to make them worse. Just look at what is happening with ridesharing services - people choosing them over public transit because they make it a little easier to get from point A to point B. The same thing will happen with autonomous vehicles. I agree that there are benefits for the last mile of the suburbs and countryside, but not in areas that could be better served by mass transit and an ounce or two of tolerating the inconvenience.
Some people will claim that the fact that autonomous vehicles can drive closely to one another will reduce congestion. Yeah, if they are the only cars on the road. I don’t see a future anytime soon in which 100% of our population (or even 80%) will be so enamored with autonomous vehicles that they’ll be wanting or willing to give up driving and car ownership.
Some people will claim that the fact that autonomous vehicles can drive closely to one another will reduce congestion. Yeah, if they are the only cars on the road. I don’t see a future anytime soon in which 100% of our population (or even 80%) will be so enamored with autonomous vehicles that they’ll be wanting or willing to give up driving and car ownership.
This isn't really true. For example, I'm going to see a show in SF and taking the Caltrain only because I can Lyft the remaining distance to the venue. Otherwise I would be driving the whole way.
That's probably what was meant by "last mile":
>"...I agree that there are benefits for the last mile of the >suburbs and countryside, ..."
:)
A good solution would be great public transportation and ride sharing working together. It doesn't have to be black or white.
>"...I agree that there are benefits for the last mile of the >suburbs and countryside, ..."
:)
A good solution would be great public transportation and ride sharing working together. It doesn't have to be black or white.
I don't agree. Self-driving cars can solve the "last-mile" problem and I am convinced that they are actually the most important tool for building the 21. century public-transportation.
At least in Europe, public transportation is usually pretty good already and there is a lot of capacity left unused because while trains are going relatively deep into the suburbs and countryside, they only serve those living next to it. Self-driving cars could unlock this potential.
Edit: If you look at for example Munich, I don't think self-driving cars will be a challenge to the public transportation inside the city. But they can help getting completely rid of your own car (or alleviate the desire to buy one).
At least in Europe, public transportation is usually pretty good already and there is a lot of capacity left unused because while trains are going relatively deep into the suburbs and countryside, they only serve those living next to it. Self-driving cars could unlock this potential.
Edit: If you look at for example Munich, I don't think self-driving cars will be a challenge to the public transportation inside the city. But they can help getting completely rid of your own car (or alleviate the desire to buy one).
I like this point. My concern is people using autonomous vehicles to commute.
Cheaper, more efficient and better "last mile" solutions: Bicycle share in protected bike lanes, a pleasant walk.
Generally yes, but you still need a solution for the cases not covered by those, like my 84-year-old neighbor who has kidney dialysis twice a week, and who can't really walk more than a few meters anymore.
The trick is to cover every case but nudge people to take the less demanding option if they can. Easier said than done, though.
The trick is to cover every case but nudge people to take the less demanding option if they can. Easier said than done, though.
[deleted]
At the same time, self driving cars could use the roads more efficiently (once they make up most traffic).
I think you're generally right though. I know if I had a self driving car, I'd move further out of the city. If it adds to my commute time, I won't care if I can do other things while I commute (work, read, write, sleep, etc...).
I think you're generally right though. I know if I had a self driving car, I'd move further out of the city. If it adds to my commute time, I won't care if I can do other things while I commute (work, read, write, sleep, etc...).
At the same time, self driving cars could use the roads more efficiently (once they make up most traffic).
That last step is quite a doozy though.
That last step is quite a doozy though.
They could do it sooner with dedicated lanes that run faster / more efficient, just like HOV lanes today.
self driving and electrification will explode the number of vehicles on roads but with proper management the increase in mobility would be good for society and especially those who cannot drive or reach other forms of transportation.
I do question the idea of trying to use autonomous cars in cities first when limited access roads are a far better choice for early uses of the technology. Giving new purpose to HOV and Express lanes would be far simpler to develop for and easier for governments to accommodate. The idea of entering an limited access road or any road with a protected lane and being able to let the car do the driving has many advantages to both road use and over all trip times plus the previously mentioned ease of implementation
I do question the idea of trying to use autonomous cars in cities first when limited access roads are a far better choice for early uses of the technology. Giving new purpose to HOV and Express lanes would be far simpler to develop for and easier for governments to accommodate. The idea of entering an limited access road or any road with a protected lane and being able to let the car do the driving has many advantages to both road use and over all trip times plus the previously mentioned ease of implementation
and I suspect that fully autonomous electric cars might just orbit the city if parking/charging spaces are not avaible.
When I worked for an Arab Company in London one of the messenger "boys" jobs was to when a traffic warden was spotted to drive the senior directors cars (seriously stepped on mercs and bmw's with the after market armour packages ) around the block few times and park it back outside the office :-)
When I worked for an Arab Company in London one of the messenger "boys" jobs was to when a traffic warden was spotted to drive the senior directors cars (seriously stepped on mercs and bmw's with the after market armour packages ) around the block few times and park it back outside the office :-)
Ottawa just became the first Canadian city to have a self-driving car actually on the road. It should be on the list.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/driverless-car-test-ott...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/driverless-car-test-ott...
Can we fix polluting vehicles first?
Unfortunately, no, because all of the current owners of said vehicles are incredibly possessive and covetous of such objects, and prone to exerting their influence of similar attitudes over their peers.
Self driving cars, owned by faceless organizations can be silently converted after the fact, effectively subverting the psychological ploy of keeping-up-with-the-joneses style peer pressure, which has held a death grip on the lifestyles of puny materialistic mortals for decades now, as demonstrated by beer advertising, cigarette advertising, vacuous fashion trends and so on. In fact, apply this principle to pretty much every bad habit you can imagine.
Self driving cars, owned by faceless organizations can be silently converted after the fact, effectively subverting the psychological ploy of keeping-up-with-the-joneses style peer pressure, which has held a death grip on the lifestyles of puny materialistic mortals for decades now, as demonstrated by beer advertising, cigarette advertising, vacuous fashion trends and so on. In fact, apply this principle to pretty much every bad habit you can imagine.
> Unfortunately, no, because all of the current owners of said vehicles are incredibly possessive and covetous of such objects
I think most of us can't afford to take out $10,000-$250,000 loans to replace working assets we already own that have 5-10 good years left on them.
I think most of us can't afford to take out $10,000-$250,000 loans to replace working assets we already own that have 5-10 good years left on them.
Oh, but what about wealthy corporations rendering autonomous vehicle services, either as their primary offering, or as an ancillary side business?
You could own shares in such a company, purchase a subscription to summon vehicles at a rate, or buy a vehicle and resell its autonomy, offsetting the expense. One might view some of these options as a form of collective ownership, and so it might not just be you owning one on your own, but maybe contributing to the partial ownership of one or more vehicles.
You could own shares in such a company, purchase a subscription to summon vehicles at a rate, or buy a vehicle and resell its autonomy, offsetting the expense. One might view some of these options as a form of collective ownership, and so it might not just be you owning one on your own, but maybe contributing to the partial ownership of one or more vehicles.
We already are, slowly but surely:
https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/pu...
You can argue that you want that rate of improvement increased, but progress is being made.
https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/pu...
You can argue that you want that rate of improvement increased, but progress is being made.
I remember the transport minister of India claiming that he would ban self-driving cars to protect the jobs of drivers. No city in India is even close to ready for self driving vehicles.
I can appreciate the core of what he’s trying to do.
Autonomous vehicles can bring about a lot of good. They can also bring about massive consolidation of work and wealth in the hands of the few fleet owners that will inevitably emerge.
A society in which driving, one of the principal means of employment, no longer exists, is going to suffer a long list of negative externalities that the proponents never take into account.
A better solution would be to encourage the growth of autonomous vehicles but create an environment in which the ownership of said vehicles is largely distributed.
Autonomous vehicles can bring about a lot of good. They can also bring about massive consolidation of work and wealth in the hands of the few fleet owners that will inevitably emerge.
A society in which driving, one of the principal means of employment, no longer exists, is going to suffer a long list of negative externalities that the proponents never take into account.
A better solution would be to encourage the growth of autonomous vehicles but create an environment in which the ownership of said vehicles is largely distributed.
That’s not “getting ready for”, it’s “experimenting with”.
Also, cities (mostly) shouldn’t have to “get ready” for self-driving cars; self-driving cars should start self-driving in current cities.
Also, cities (mostly) shouldn’t have to “get ready” for self-driving cars; self-driving cars should start self-driving in current cities.
But there are a lot of effects on the city as a result, which the city should prepare for. For example, parking lots will be less necessary in zoning rules, when people use Uber-like apps and self driving cars.
I’m far from convinced we can already draw that conclusion.
People currently are willing to spend quite a bit more than necessary to own an extension of their home (and, in some cases, their ego) that brings them to work.
If self-driving cars become affordable, I am not sure that will change. For example, people who can afford to will still want to store stuff (sports equipment, spare sets of clothing, and baby seats) in their cars, just as they do now, so that they have to move it less often.
Also, for driving to work, I don’t see self-driving cars make more than one trip a day, and cities would likely prefer most self-driving cars to park during the day, rather than circle around town.
So, given that we don’t really know the effect self-driving cars will have, I don’t think cities can start guessing at the required infrastructure, given that it will be expensive and take decades to build.
On the other hand, cities can do one thing that is known to be good, regardless whether self driving cars will need less parking: build more and better cycling infrastructure.
People currently are willing to spend quite a bit more than necessary to own an extension of their home (and, in some cases, their ego) that brings them to work.
If self-driving cars become affordable, I am not sure that will change. For example, people who can afford to will still want to store stuff (sports equipment, spare sets of clothing, and baby seats) in their cars, just as they do now, so that they have to move it less often.
Also, for driving to work, I don’t see self-driving cars make more than one trip a day, and cities would likely prefer most self-driving cars to park during the day, rather than circle around town.
So, given that we don’t really know the effect self-driving cars will have, I don’t think cities can start guessing at the required infrastructure, given that it will be expensive and take decades to build.
On the other hand, cities can do one thing that is known to be good, regardless whether self driving cars will need less parking: build more and better cycling infrastructure.
Autonomous vehicles and the good city
https://youtu.be/2kBEvg8bftE
Interesting lists. Sadly, at the moment all the city links seem to be broken so I'm not sure what's supposed to be there.