Credit-card-rewards guru Brian Kelly says we’re in a “golden age” of travel(newyorker.com)
newyorker.com
Credit-card-rewards guru Brian Kelly says we’re in a “golden age” of travel
http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/how-to-travel-like-a-millionaire-ask-the-points-guy
10 comments
I don't know if your assessment of that is accurate. I opened 2 cards last year, the AMEX Platinum and Chase Sapphire Reserve deal. I got 100k points for each card. I had some existing points and then some extra spending and I was able to get 2 business class tickets to Japan ($18k value) and 15 nights in 5 and 6 star Hyatt hotels. That was probably another $8k in value. I spent 170k AMEX points on the flights and 155k Chase points on the hotels. That trip was amazing and it was only possible because of the points.
Was it a lot of work? Not really. I just put all my spending on my AMEX for a few months. Then I switched to the Chase Sapphire for a months. Once I got all the points I needed, I just transferred the the Amex points to ANA and the Chase points to Hyatt. I then booked my flights and hotels. Booking flights was slightly harder as my fiance and I weren't married so we had to transfer points to separate accounts, but it definitely wasn't a chore at all. A simple phone call to AMEX took care of that. Booking rooms with Hyatt and using points was a breeze.
There are other benefits of having high end cards too. I got Global Entry for my fiance and I ($200 value). We didn't have to go through customs on the way back to USA. I got $300 travel credit from CSR card per year. $200 airline credit from AMEX Plat. I was able to get orchestra tickets to Hamilton in NYC for $399 through AMEX plat.
If I had a million points, I could book 3-4 dream vacations. Not sure what went wrong with your redemptions.
Was it a lot of work? Not really. I just put all my spending on my AMEX for a few months. Then I switched to the Chase Sapphire for a months. Once I got all the points I needed, I just transferred the the Amex points to ANA and the Chase points to Hyatt. I then booked my flights and hotels. Booking flights was slightly harder as my fiance and I weren't married so we had to transfer points to separate accounts, but it definitely wasn't a chore at all. A simple phone call to AMEX took care of that. Booking rooms with Hyatt and using points was a breeze.
There are other benefits of having high end cards too. I got Global Entry for my fiance and I ($200 value). We didn't have to go through customs on the way back to USA. I got $300 travel credit from CSR card per year. $200 airline credit from AMEX Plat. I was able to get orchestra tickets to Hamilton in NYC for $399 through AMEX plat.
If I had a million points, I could book 3-4 dream vacations. Not sure what went wrong with your redemptions.
Would you have paid $18K to fly to Japan though? The "cents per mile" is high but it's better to measure your WTP (willingness to pay).
BTW, you can regularly get west coast to Japan in business class for ~$3-4k/pp. ex. https://goo.gl/flights/BDTu. If you wait for deals, there was Vancouver - Japan/Hong Kong/SE Asia for ~$2k in business class for a while. Business class prices have been consistently dropping transatlantic (TATL) and we're seeing that transpacific (TPAC) too, albeit more slowly.
I think what you did was smart, but there's really no way to continue to get that kind of value from your miles. You could get the other Amex cards (~150k MR?), and other Chase cards (~150k UR?), but hard to repeatedly get big bonuses like that :P
Totally agree though that keeping one or both of those cards is great for the right kind of spend. It's just not like a free trip to Europe every quarter like it used to be.
BTW, you can regularly get west coast to Japan in business class for ~$3-4k/pp. ex. https://goo.gl/flights/BDTu. If you wait for deals, there was Vancouver - Japan/Hong Kong/SE Asia for ~$2k in business class for a while. Business class prices have been consistently dropping transatlantic (TATL) and we're seeing that transpacific (TPAC) too, albeit more slowly.
I think what you did was smart, but there's really no way to continue to get that kind of value from your miles. You could get the other Amex cards (~150k MR?), and other Chase cards (~150k UR?), but hard to repeatedly get big bonuses like that :P
Totally agree though that keeping one or both of those cards is great for the right kind of spend. It's just not like a free trip to Europe every quarter like it used to be.
Not sure how much "willingness to pay" makes sense. This is more about taking advantage of money which would otherwise be left on the table. If you aren't going out of your way to spend on cards, and all you need to do is shift spending onto certain cards for certain purchases during the first X months in order to get a nice point bonus, seems like a nice way to get a free vacation.
It isn't accurate to count it as $18k in realized value from cc points if you would have never spent that much on the thing without the points.
The actual realized value is the amount that one would have been willing spend on the thing with their _own_ money, if they didn't have the points.
The actual realized value is the amount that one would have been willing spend on the thing with their _own_ money, if they didn't have the points.
Yes thats true, I conceded that point in another reply to Sleeep. I did look up tickets just now and they are about $6500/person on ANA. I specifically looked up ANA because I wanted to fly on one of the better airlines. The service I got was absolutely fantastic.
2 business class tickets is definitely not $18k in value. There are regularly sales with various airlines when you can get a business class to Japan for around $2k per ticket. And since availabilities for rewards vary and are sometimes hard to come buy, you cannot compare them to the price of a fully flexible airline ticket.
But that said, you can get good value from using miles.
But that said, you can get good value from using miles.
I know they aren't normally that much, but at the time they were like 8800 per person. I had a specific airline in mind when I flew because I wanted the full experience. ANA currently is like $6500/person for business but I felt it was well worth the cost. I know you can get cheaper tickets.
Out of curiosity, how much do you have to spend to get those bonus miles? Right now Chase Sapphire Reserve will give you 50k miles for $4k in spending within 3 months (in addition to the $450 annual fee).
It just seems like a lot of these credit card based mileage schemes are really limited to people who can naturally spend tens of thousands a year on credit cards and can additionally afford the potentially thousands more in annual fees (if you have multiple cards). For those who aren't in the top 20th percentile of income, or who just prefer a frugal lifestyle, I don't see how its viable.
Or are there tricks to manufacture spending and recoup your costs?
It just seems like a lot of these credit card based mileage schemes are really limited to people who can naturally spend tens of thousands a year on credit cards and can additionally afford the potentially thousands more in annual fees (if you have multiple cards). For those who aren't in the top 20th percentile of income, or who just prefer a frugal lifestyle, I don't see how its viable.
Or are there tricks to manufacture spending and recoup your costs?
When I signed up to those two cards, it was $3k spend in 3 months for each card. I also signed up at different times. For my Amex platinum I actually put my security deposit on it for 2k and 2k down on a car haha.
You can manufacture spending and spend something like $10,000 a month on gift cards, then turn that back into cash to pay your credit card bill. Not sure how to do it and its also risky. AMEX/Chase have been closing accounts for it and one guy was doing it with Money Orders and the US Postal Service went after him for money laundering.
As for me I have a natural spend of about 5500 a month for all expenses and rent. I paid rent using Plastiq (2.5% fee) for a while and got triple points before Chase cut off the triple points offer on Plastiq's services. They re-categorized it as a business service instead of travel.
It definitely favors higher incomes for sure.
I can put 4-5000 a month on a card and with point bonuses, earn something like 6-8000 points per month. So in 2 years we'll have enough to go on another dream vacation (Probably Japan again cause it was amazing!).
EDIT: You can down grade your card to a no fee card after you've gotten your bonuses. Then later re apply. AMEX has language in their Terms that limits you to 1 bonus per card per lifetime, but recently some of their cards do not have that language. Chase limits you to 5 cards opened in a 24 month period, regardless of the credit card servicer. Citi also has some form of restriction. This all recently started in the last year or 2.
You can manufacture spending and spend something like $10,000 a month on gift cards, then turn that back into cash to pay your credit card bill. Not sure how to do it and its also risky. AMEX/Chase have been closing accounts for it and one guy was doing it with Money Orders and the US Postal Service went after him for money laundering.
As for me I have a natural spend of about 5500 a month for all expenses and rent. I paid rent using Plastiq (2.5% fee) for a while and got triple points before Chase cut off the triple points offer on Plastiq's services. They re-categorized it as a business service instead of travel.
It definitely favors higher incomes for sure.
I can put 4-5000 a month on a card and with point bonuses, earn something like 6-8000 points per month. So in 2 years we'll have enough to go on another dream vacation (Probably Japan again cause it was amazing!).
EDIT: You can down grade your card to a no fee card after you've gotten your bonuses. Then later re apply. AMEX has language in their Terms that limits you to 1 bonus per card per lifetime, but recently some of their cards do not have that language. Chase limits you to 5 cards opened in a 24 month period, regardless of the credit card servicer. Citi also has some form of restriction. This all recently started in the last year or 2.
AMEX is calling out downgrading after 12 months as a way to lose your sign up bonus as of a few weeks ago. They are cracking down on people who don't have a serious interest in keeping the card. This is one of the reasons why I said the golden age is well over - https://www.doctorofcredit.com/amex-updates-terms-penalize-g...
When the Chase Sapphire Reserve first arrived, it had a 100k bonus. They've since decreased it to 50k.
Isn't the Amex platinum $550 a year though? Still a good deal, but not entirely free either?
When I got it was $450, they recently raised the prices. Even if you run the calculations, its still worth it.
$550 a year fee
$200 airline credit
$200 Uber credit
$20 Global Entry credit per year (Prorated. Global entry costs $100 per 5 years and AMEX will cover the cost).
Gold status with SPG and Hilton
Lounge access at many airports
Free subscription to GoGo for in flight internet (domestic) And lastly, AMEX Platinum Concierge is still the best service for any card.
5x points on airline purchases.
Chase Sapphire has even better value.
$450 fee
$300 credit per year (When I got this card, I was able to redeem the credit twice due to the timing and how Chase calculates the year.) ALso Chase's credit is far more useful since "travel" is loosely defined for them.
Lounge access
$20 Global Entry Credit per year (used this one for fiance)
Travel insurance
No Foreign Transaction fees
3x points on dining and 3x on travel.
$550 a year fee
$200 airline credit
$200 Uber credit
$20 Global Entry credit per year (Prorated. Global entry costs $100 per 5 years and AMEX will cover the cost).
Gold status with SPG and Hilton
Lounge access at many airports
Free subscription to GoGo for in flight internet (domestic) And lastly, AMEX Platinum Concierge is still the best service for any card.
5x points on airline purchases.
Chase Sapphire has even better value.
$450 fee
$300 credit per year (When I got this card, I was able to redeem the credit twice due to the timing and how Chase calculates the year.) ALso Chase's credit is far more useful since "travel" is loosely defined for them.
Lounge access
$20 Global Entry Credit per year (used this one for fiance)
Travel insurance
No Foreign Transaction fees
3x points on dining and 3x on travel.
The AMEX redemptions are some of the worst, and they are losing partners. They also didn't auto-reimburse me for the airline credit when I followed all their instructions. They also didn't reimburse me for Uber credit -- apparently it doesn't work when the trips are in other countries (only the US), which is a really lame for a "travel" card.
For ANA its pretty sweet. 85k round trip on business to Asia. But, in general I agree I think they are on the down fall and they need to come up with some new things to remain competitive. The hotel status are the only reason I have them because I have been traveling a lot lately and its worth it. I may end up cancelling it in the future.
You can't call your airlines tickets $18k in value because you wouldn't have spent $18k on two airline tickets. My value is the max I'm willing to pay for a ticket, not the price the airline says the ticket I redeemed for is worth. Bloggers say this too and it's disingenuous. For me those tickets would be $5k because that's the most I'm willing to pay for two tickets to Japan.
It's a pain to figure out the best way to get from point A to point B using points. You have to figure out which points to collect,then you have to collect enough of them, then figure out which time of the year to go where the redemptions you can afford are. Then you have to transfer and book on partner airlines. It certainly isn't straightforward.
Yeah, sure, you can do a big trip with two HUGE sign up bonuses of flexible points very easily. Being able to get one high quality trip isn't the same as being able to get many high quality trips, you aren't going to be able to do that a couple times a year (which is what bloggers make it seem like). Travel bloggers promote churning through cards to keep generating more points. You can't just churn through Platinum and CSR applications over and over again. (Platinum is churable to an extent but that's another topic and AMEX is cracking down on that)
Those two sign up bonuses you got are not common and the CSR one won't come back ever again (Chase is losing money on the CSR, look for a devaluation in the future).
Also your points have to be spread out among 5+ different loyalty programs if you want to continue churning credit cards/points/bonuses.
My redemptions are fine, they fit my needs. I have not redeemed a lot yet. I haven't planned a big trip yet. So far all my redemptions have been for a couple nights at a time. You aren't going to get as much value if you simply fly domestic. Flying to Japan may get you the most value but it's worthless if you don't want to fly to Japan.
Anyways, my point of the GP was:
-TPG and most travel blogs are a business that are making money off you.
-Points aren't as simple as "sign up for credit card, fly to Japan," you have to be flexible and usually to get a good redemption you'll have to transfer and book off peak. Availably is limited.
-To get more than 1-2 trips you're going to have to game the system. Sign up, collect bonuses, close card, repeat. You hit a wall with this after a while.
-Credit card companies are cracking down on gamers.
-Some people are better off getting part time job with how much effort they put into gaming the system.
-The rules are always changing.
It's a pain to figure out the best way to get from point A to point B using points. You have to figure out which points to collect,then you have to collect enough of them, then figure out which time of the year to go where the redemptions you can afford are. Then you have to transfer and book on partner airlines. It certainly isn't straightforward.
Yeah, sure, you can do a big trip with two HUGE sign up bonuses of flexible points very easily. Being able to get one high quality trip isn't the same as being able to get many high quality trips, you aren't going to be able to do that a couple times a year (which is what bloggers make it seem like). Travel bloggers promote churning through cards to keep generating more points. You can't just churn through Platinum and CSR applications over and over again. (Platinum is churable to an extent but that's another topic and AMEX is cracking down on that)
Those two sign up bonuses you got are not common and the CSR one won't come back ever again (Chase is losing money on the CSR, look for a devaluation in the future).
Also your points have to be spread out among 5+ different loyalty programs if you want to continue churning credit cards/points/bonuses.
My redemptions are fine, they fit my needs. I have not redeemed a lot yet. I haven't planned a big trip yet. So far all my redemptions have been for a couple nights at a time. You aren't going to get as much value if you simply fly domestic. Flying to Japan may get you the most value but it's worthless if you don't want to fly to Japan.
Anyways, my point of the GP was:
-TPG and most travel blogs are a business that are making money off you.
-Points aren't as simple as "sign up for credit card, fly to Japan," you have to be flexible and usually to get a good redemption you'll have to transfer and book off peak. Availably is limited.
-To get more than 1-2 trips you're going to have to game the system. Sign up, collect bonuses, close card, repeat. You hit a wall with this after a while.
-Credit card companies are cracking down on gamers.
-Some people are better off getting part time job with how much effort they put into gaming the system.
-The rules are always changing.
I do not believe its disingenuous to say that they are $18k in value. That's how much the tickets cost at the time. Could I afford the tickets if I paid cash? No, but isn't that the whole point of churning?
I looked up the cheapest flights on ANA business class in September 2017 and they look to be around $6500 per person. That is still quite a bit of money saved. I potentially could afford that if I was extra frugal for a few years. It also means you can use the money for other things, which we did in the form hot springs ryokan, more gifts and souvenirs.
Figuring out which points to collect really wasn't that hard, it takes 10 minutes to look up that information. There are plenty of sites that catalog that information like reddit.com/r/awardtravel, www.awardace.com, www.awardhacker.com
Figuring out which time of the year to go may change the amount of points you need, that I agree can be annoying.
I will concede that its not a straight forward process, but its also something you can look up and research in a day.
As for the huge sign up bonuses, yes they probably won't come around again for a long time, but you can still get the amount of points needed pretty quick. Since I booked our trips in 2016 (2017 was the vacation), I have accumulated 50k Amex points and 40k Chase points. Amex has quite a few offers that double, triple, or even 10x the normal amount of points received. I bought a TV from Best Buy and got 3000 points. I signed up for "Pay over time" and got 10,000 points. I had to ship a few packages (ebay stuff) on Fedex and got 10x points for 2k points.
With Chase I put all my grocery/dining/travel expenses on it. I get 3x for that.
At the end of the day, I guess it depends on how much you want out of it. I do not do manufactured spending and buy gift cards, but I do look at deals and offers and try to maximize my point earnings. Whether you believe that's a chore and is worth it or not is up to you.
I looked up the cheapest flights on ANA business class in September 2017 and they look to be around $6500 per person. That is still quite a bit of money saved. I potentially could afford that if I was extra frugal for a few years. It also means you can use the money for other things, which we did in the form hot springs ryokan, more gifts and souvenirs.
Figuring out which points to collect really wasn't that hard, it takes 10 minutes to look up that information. There are plenty of sites that catalog that information like reddit.com/r/awardtravel, www.awardace.com, www.awardhacker.com
Figuring out which time of the year to go may change the amount of points you need, that I agree can be annoying.
I will concede that its not a straight forward process, but its also something you can look up and research in a day.
As for the huge sign up bonuses, yes they probably won't come around again for a long time, but you can still get the amount of points needed pretty quick. Since I booked our trips in 2016 (2017 was the vacation), I have accumulated 50k Amex points and 40k Chase points. Amex has quite a few offers that double, triple, or even 10x the normal amount of points received. I bought a TV from Best Buy and got 3000 points. I signed up for "Pay over time" and got 10,000 points. I had to ship a few packages (ebay stuff) on Fedex and got 10x points for 2k points.
With Chase I put all my grocery/dining/travel expenses on it. I get 3x for that.
At the end of the day, I guess it depends on how much you want out of it. I do not do manufactured spending and buy gift cards, but I do look at deals and offers and try to maximize my point earnings. Whether you believe that's a chore and is worth it or not is up to you.
That's a dumb way to value it.
You can get a $500 hotel on points. You don't say "well, I live for free at home, so technically this night is worth nothing."
Just because you can "buy" something with a different currency that might make more sense, doesn't make it cost less in USD if you were to purchase it outright.
You can get a $500 hotel on points. You don't say "well, I live for free at home, so technically this night is worth nothing."
Just because you can "buy" something with a different currency that might make more sense, doesn't make it cost less in USD if you were to purchase it outright.
He's talking about willingness to pay (WTP), which is the right way to value travel imo. A biz flight might be $4k, but the economy option might be $800. If I buy economy but would pay ~$1500 for business, but no more, then the miles are effectively worth that to you. If an airline was selling fares at $1500 you'd buy them, but since they're not, you won't be buying at $4k.
In your hotel example, you should look at the WTP for a room. I might pay $150 for a room, and up to $250 for the high end room. So even if the sticker price is $500, it's value to me is closer to $250, so I'll calculate my CPM that way.
In your hotel example, you should look at the WTP for a room. I might pay $150 for a room, and up to $250 for the high end room. So even if the sticker price is $500, it's value to me is closer to $250, so I'll calculate my CPM that way.
If I was given a $500 hotel voucher (that was non-transferable and expires) and I had absolutely no use for a hotel room I would value that voucher at $0, yes.
Just like if Amazon offered me a year of prime membership for $10 I'd say "no thank you" because I value prime membership at $0. (Don't shop at Amazon much, don't mind waiting for shipping, have all the streaming I need)
Just like if Amazon offered me a year of prime membership for $10 I'd say "no thank you" because I value prime membership at $0. (Don't shop at Amazon much, don't mind waiting for shipping, have all the streaming I need)
Let me know if you ever get any $500 hotel vouchers that you have no use for. I'll happily give you $0 for them.
You missed when I said "non-transferable." Otherwise the value of the voucher to me would be what I could sell it for.
Its pretty easy to use points to book rooms for other people, I was able to gift 4 reservations a few weeks back for an event. All I had to do was write "Gift Reservation for xyz person" in the Request option.
Right, but that's why I said "voucher," not "points." Incidentally, that is why United got such a bad rap for giving out vouchers rather than cash for bumping passengers. Because everyone knows vouchers are more than likely never going to be used before they expire.
Even considering you can book rooms for others, there's still a huge segment of the population (50%?) where hotel points are still completely useless. There's a time in my life hotel points would be completely useless to me too. Many people don't travel and don't have friends/family who travel either, it's as simple as that. The HN crowd seems to believe that everyone is taking a few vacations to far away places a year but that's simply not the case, most people I know do not travel at all and do not want to either.
Plus, even you wanted to use them they would have to have a hotel at the destination where you also wanted to travel to.
Even considering you can book rooms for others, there's still a huge segment of the population (50%?) where hotel points are still completely useless. There's a time in my life hotel points would be completely useless to me too. Many people don't travel and don't have friends/family who travel either, it's as simple as that. The HN crowd seems to believe that everyone is taking a few vacations to far away places a year but that's simply not the case, most people I know do not travel at all and do not want to either.
Plus, even you wanted to use them they would have to have a hotel at the destination where you also wanted to travel to.
The Points Guy is fine in that it'll teach most people the basics. It's not perfect advice, and they (Kelly, and Bankrate) make a killing on it… but it's good enough. For most people, the alternative is using a debit card or redeeming their miles for a new toaster. Following TPG's advice is already a massive improvement.
In the past year, I've flown >100 times, 200k "butt-in-seat" miles, all long-haul in first or business class, spent 150+ nights in luxury hotels. I've flown around the US in private jets. I have millions of points and miles. I don't dare imagine what the retail cost would've been—but I pay a tiny tiny fraction of the price. Travel in that style is a hobby and I go out of my way to fly new airlines (I've tried long-haul first class on almost every reputable airline) and visit new places (40 countries and counting).
Getting really good at this, however, is a ton of work. It's a time-consuming hobby. I have spreadsheets, scripts, crawlers, and private groups to trade info, miles, and favors. I'm constantly on the lookout for new deals and loopholes; and I know the ins-and-outs of airlines' and hotels' policies. I've put in my 10,000h.
The point is that sure; for me, TPG seems like child's play. A lot of the information is a bit inaccurate, and they're not entirely unbiased. But most people don't have the willingness or interest to put in the work required to be really successful at this hobby. For that majority of people, following TPG's advice will let them experience a taste of this lifestyle. It might be enough to take their fiancé on a first class luxury honeymoon to Japan. In my opinion, that's pretty cool…
In the past year, I've flown >100 times, 200k "butt-in-seat" miles, all long-haul in first or business class, spent 150+ nights in luxury hotels. I've flown around the US in private jets. I have millions of points and miles. I don't dare imagine what the retail cost would've been—but I pay a tiny tiny fraction of the price. Travel in that style is a hobby and I go out of my way to fly new airlines (I've tried long-haul first class on almost every reputable airline) and visit new places (40 countries and counting).
Getting really good at this, however, is a ton of work. It's a time-consuming hobby. I have spreadsheets, scripts, crawlers, and private groups to trade info, miles, and favors. I'm constantly on the lookout for new deals and loopholes; and I know the ins-and-outs of airlines' and hotels' policies. I've put in my 10,000h.
The point is that sure; for me, TPG seems like child's play. A lot of the information is a bit inaccurate, and they're not entirely unbiased. But most people don't have the willingness or interest to put in the work required to be really successful at this hobby. For that majority of people, following TPG's advice will let them experience a taste of this lifestyle. It might be enough to take their fiancé on a first class luxury honeymoon to Japan. In my opinion, that's pretty cool…
Have you considered monetizing your knowledge? I would pay maybe $100/hour for some advice on how to adapt my current lifestyle and credit card usage to gain more miles/benefits.
I help my friends a lot and I'm always happy to chat it through with anyone. That said, no, I haven't looked into turning this into something more, for two reasons:
1) The nature of the game is that the more people play it, the less value it provides. A lot of my success in this is due to obscure opportunities that die as soon as they get too publicized.
2) Turning this from a hobby to a job would take the fun out of it.
1) The nature of the game is that the more people play it, the less value it provides. A lot of my success in this is due to obscure opportunities that die as soon as they get too publicized.
2) Turning this from a hobby to a job would take the fun out of it.
I tried to monetize my knowledge of credit card awards. The problem I ran into is that in order to find awards for customers of the same quality that I do for myself, I'd need to charge >$1000 per passenger to make it worth my time.
If finding the awards for two people to do a somewhat-complicated trip takes me 10 hours, charging $100 a pop just doesn't make sense.
If finding the awards for two people to do a somewhat-complicated trip takes me 10 hours, charging $100 a pop just doesn't make sense.
This. I recently redeemed a great trip with a round the world award on cathay pacific (a oneworld multipartner award). It's a really great value and it does save me a lot of money (compared to what I would have been willing to pay for an equivalent trip) but it takes time.
- finding the available seats
- calling and getting it done on the phone (and finding that Asiamiles can't find the award you thought was available)
- making sure you follow the rules so that that specific award works (I needed to book 3 different airlines which became difficult when suddenly one of the airlines I was planning to use didn't have any awards at all anymore)
It's fun doing for myself and if I do it for myself, I can quickly evaluate alternatives but I can't imagine doing it for someone else.
There are a few services who do book awards for around $250 but a lot of them don't really want to do overly complex bookings.
It's fun doing for myself and if I do it for myself, I can quickly evaluate alternatives but I can't imagine doing it for someone else.
There are a few services who do book awards for around $250 but a lot of them don't really want to do overly complex bookings.
TPG exists to make TPG money not to lead you to the right cards for your needs. If you want to learn you should learn from a resource that doesn't contain referral links.
TFA is nothing but a marketing piece. The travel blog market is saturated.
TFA is nothing but a marketing piece. The travel blog market is saturated.
how much money did you actually spend on all of that?
The article acknowledges both the affiliate marketing and bankrate ownership. Do you have evidence that his reporting is influenced 8n a way that serves him but not his readers? Not really fair to call him a shill otherwise.
As for your assessment of the utility of collecting points, I agree. I have ADHD. I will miss a payment or something that will blow the whole mess apart. Not worth it to me, but good for those who can make it work.
As for your assessment of the utility of collecting points, I agree. I have ADHD. I will miss a payment or something that will blow the whole mess apart. Not worth it to me, but good for those who can make it work.
How to travel better than a millionaire ? Spend less, do more. It's possible and better to travel with almost no money, discipline and challenge your body and your desires. Last year, I spent 3 months in Morocco, 1 month in Indonesia and 1 month in Jordan. As a married couple, our daily budget in Indonesia and Morocco was about $2-$3 dollar per day because we camped and hitchhiked, sometimes ate only bread for one week, sometimes had to walk for hours, sometimes got sick and spent hole day sleeping under a tree in the middle of nowhere. I can't express the taste of an egg after weeks of strict diet though. The wonderful taste of true freedom is not more money; it's actually not spending money. I had as much as time I wanted, and I could go any route I wanted. No credit cards, no bills, no worries. I believe travel should be about developing good habits and learning value of small things rather than turning the brain off and enjoying luxury and desire... Hope I didn't sound snobby, just wanna give different perspectives a voice. If it sounded interesting, you can take a look at this video to see it in action; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CC5htqMMFc
> sometimes ate only bread for one week, sometimes had to walk for hours, sometimes got sick
A lot of people would disagree that that's "traveling better than a millionaire".
A lot of people would disagree that that's "traveling better than a millionaire".
"Pain is a treasure, for it contains mercies." - Rumi
The point I'm trying to make is, happiness and joy is not in "more", it's in "less". And the "less" requires people to discipline their body to not demand comfort and luxury.
The point I'm trying to make is, happiness and joy is not in "more", it's in "less". And the "less" requires people to discipline their body to not demand comfort and luxury.
I don't mean to be disrespectful but I really don't understand this. Why not just live in your car in the US? What's the point of going all the way to Asia just to live like a homeless person?
Myself, I've had enough pain in my life already (domestic violence and abuse) so I'm ready to spend my vacation in pleasure.
Myself, I've had enough pain in my life already (domestic violence and abuse) so I'm ready to spend my vacation in pleasure.
I traveled all around US by car camping, it was quite joyful. But it's not as social as being in developing world and getting to know unique cultures in natural ways.
I think there's a middle ground in there somewhere. Many people experience "pain" and "lack" in other areas of their lives, and are looking to travel/vacation as an escape from that. Tying happiness and joy to "less" is just as arbitrary as tying it to "more". It's all about where you start.
Luckily there is not a correct way to enjoy travel (or anything else in life).
It escapes me why someone would want to go all the way to Southeast Asia for that though.
It escapes me why someone would want to go all the way to Southeast Asia for that though.
Loved your video.
There are some great experiences that money helps with but some of the most incredible things on the planet are free or cheap - walking, national parks, museums, etc. Sadly, the loudest voices (including advertising) are often the ones earning the most from speaking and so encouragement to find the simple and cheap attractions gets ignored.
There are some great experiences that money helps with but some of the most incredible things on the planet are free or cheap - walking, national parks, museums, etc. Sadly, the loudest voices (including advertising) are often the ones earning the most from speaking and so encouragement to find the simple and cheap attractions gets ignored.
It is okay to have your beliefs, but don't come outright saying your travel habits are better than others, some people want to enjoy comfort and luxury while traveling or otherwise and there is nothing wrong with that. There is a reason five-star hotels are in business just like there is space for crumbling hostels and camping grounds.
I say this as someone who's traveled a little bit on a minimal budget, there are good things about both and your posture is typical of condescending wanderlust travel bloggers(which these days come in troves) even if that is not your intention.
I say this as someone who's traveled a little bit on a minimal budget, there are good things about both and your posture is typical of condescending wanderlust travel bloggers(which these days come in troves) even if that is not your intention.
The answer is apparently to get the credit card companies to pay you for ads.
Rule #0. Dont have kids. otherwise everything else is moot.
If the general point is that kids are super expensive - I dunno about that.
I'm happily childless in my 30s, and when I look around at my circle of friends, those who had children early tend to have more stuff and more savings.
Why? Because children force you to live a stable, boring life. And overall that reduces your costs more than having children increases them.
For instance, when my friend Bob graduated, he stayed in my home town and bought the a fairly cheap house that he could afford, and he's still in it. I moved city to get the best job I could, and did it again, and then again.
While I've been off increasing my earnings, Bob has been accumulating actual stuff. He lives in a house he owns outright, while I've only ever rented. He has great furniture and kitchen stuff, while I have cheap things because I know that when I move, it'll cost more to shift them than to buy them again.
And moving city and breaking up with partners and changing career, and all these things that childless people do because we can are really expensive. It's hard to accumulate savings when you end up buying a new washing machine every 2 years.
And he has kids, which when you think about it is a great addition to your retirement planning. Even if the stock market crashes and wipes out your investments, well raised kids will let you move into their living room and give you a bed bath.
I'm happily childless in my 30s, and when I look around at my circle of friends, those who had children early tend to have more stuff and more savings.
Why? Because children force you to live a stable, boring life. And overall that reduces your costs more than having children increases them.
For instance, when my friend Bob graduated, he stayed in my home town and bought the a fairly cheap house that he could afford, and he's still in it. I moved city to get the best job I could, and did it again, and then again.
While I've been off increasing my earnings, Bob has been accumulating actual stuff. He lives in a house he owns outright, while I've only ever rented. He has great furniture and kitchen stuff, while I have cheap things because I know that when I move, it'll cost more to shift them than to buy them again.
And moving city and breaking up with partners and changing career, and all these things that childless people do because we can are really expensive. It's hard to accumulate savings when you end up buying a new washing machine every 2 years.
And he has kids, which when you think about it is a great addition to your retirement planning. Even if the stock market crashes and wipes out your investments, well raised kids will let you move into their living room and give you a bed bath.
You can do all of that without kids. In fact I've done that, and moved for better jobs.
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I know someone who churns credit cards systematically (you know, follows a regimen like suggested in the article) and has been traveling with his family around the world for years, taking trips every 4 to 6 weeks.
That doesn't sound too "boring".
In fact, we churned cards a few years ago to pay for our trip to Europe. We took our toddler.
I would like to know where this "boring" life is that parents have. At times, I could use some of that.
That doesn't sound too "boring".
In fact, we churned cards a few years ago to pay for our trip to Europe. We took our toddler.
I would like to know where this "boring" life is that parents have. At times, I could use some of that.
But if you bring your toddler on vacation then you'd have to vacation with a toddler.
Rule #1. Be from USA, or maybe UK, otherwise good luck finding miles or credit card deals.
Countries in Asia are not too bad either. As a rule, countries with weak laws protecting customers from customer debt are more likely to have good deals on credit card...
Credit cards need to get money and beside the interchange fees, the late fees and interest rates are where they get their money.
Credit cards need to get money and beside the interchange fees, the late fees and interest rates are where they get their money.
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Rule #0b. If you do have kids, don't take them with you. ;)
Or have money.
Like most "in clubs". Once everyone is In, the system doesn't work anymore and the added value dissipates.
I think that was true up to the point where the US-based programs all devalued and largely put a stop to churners. The game is hard enough if you're only willing to deal with domestic reward programs that I think the vast majority give up chasing aspirational awards.
Anecdotally I've found that things have been getting gradually easier. For example, now that AA has devalued their award program and Citi cards can't be churned so easily, it's a lot easier to find Cathay Pacific awards if you're redeeming through another program like Alaska.
Anecdotally I've found that things have been getting gradually easier. For example, now that AA has devalued their award program and Citi cards can't be churned so easily, it's a lot easier to find Cathay Pacific awards if you're redeeming through another program like Alaska.
I really wonder how feasible this is when you live in a country where you can't pay everything by CC and therefore have a hard time collecting points/miles in the first place.
I did look into this a few years ago, but basically nothing expensive I ever buy makes it worth to get full-on credit card hypey. Or maybe I'm indeed just to lazy to properly research it :)
For real flying miles.. I guess with like one vacation and one business trip per year, all the time with different airlines.. they usually expire before I can even get a bag of sweets :P
I did look into this a few years ago, but basically nothing expensive I ever buy makes it worth to get full-on credit card hypey. Or maybe I'm indeed just to lazy to properly research it :)
For real flying miles.. I guess with like one vacation and one business trip per year, all the time with different airlines.. they usually expire before I can even get a bag of sweets :P
How to travel like a millionaire? Ask the millionaire
I've been playing this game for about six years now. In that time I've earned and burned just over 2.5 million points.
Certainly the game isn't as easy as it used to be but it's still very lucrative if you're dedicated. Can't churn the Citi AA cards as frequently anymore, and anyways AA devalued their award chart. No more Cathay Pacific first class for 67.5k. United's devaluation a few years back was pretty painful as well.
I still accrue United and American points, there are enough ways to get a decent amount and wring a redemption out of them once a year or so, but most of my focus is on foreign or smaller programs.
Lately I've put all my energy towards Singapore Airlines and Alaska Air. Alaska often sells points cheaply enough that's it's worth it to just buy the points and redeem for partner redemptions. I did that recently and booked SFO-HKG-AKL on Cathay Pacific in first class for 80k points. Buying the 40k I needed was <$600. Well worth it.
Singapore Airlines is a transfer partner with all the transferrable currencies (Chase, Citi, Amex and SPG) which makes earning there easy. The award chart is a bit steep but there are some good deals. My return from that Cathay flight is a Singapore award for AKL-SYD-SIN-NRT-SFO-DEN on Air New Zealand, Singapore Airlines and United with the long-hauls all in first class. I think it was around 120k miles.
I started this game in college when my only goal was free travel—managed to earn enough points before graduation to buy myself a "free" round-trip ticket to Thailand in order to backpack around Southeast Asia for the summer. Now that I have substantially more money, I generally use points to enable cheap premium cabin travel, like buying points when they're on sale from Alaska or LifeMiles and essentially getting deep-discount first or business class tickets.
I've hit most of the cliche churner experiences at this point: being driven in a Porsche to your flight from the Lufthansa first class terminal, Etihad's first class apartment, taste-testing both Dom and Krug in a Singapore Suite. It's an absurd hobby.
And it's a hobby that takes monumental amounts of time to keep up with. Want to book Cathay via Alaska? Better know to ask to agent to look at the right screen on her computer. How do you know that? Because you've been following a 5,000-post thread over on Flyertalk about it. Knowing when and how to correctly apply for your next Citi card means you're following a similar thread over in that part of Flyertalk. Keeping up with the details like that is time consuming. I enjoy the detail work but I don't really know why.
This hobby lets me go on generally two international vacations in first class each year for very little money. I'll be spending three weeks in New Zealand later this year, with time in Hong Kong, Singapore and Tokyo along the way. Last year I spent a week in Tokyo with friends before making my way back via Shanghai, Hong Kong and Dubai—two of those were new cities to me.
I've somehow become very, very good at one of the world's silliest skills.
That said, I have absolutely gotten off a first class fight only to check in to a hostel. Luxury travel actually gets pretty damn boring after about 24 hours IMO. Nothing is less interesting than flying to the other side of the world only to stay in a Hilton marginally nicer than the one in your home town.
Certainly the game isn't as easy as it used to be but it's still very lucrative if you're dedicated. Can't churn the Citi AA cards as frequently anymore, and anyways AA devalued their award chart. No more Cathay Pacific first class for 67.5k. United's devaluation a few years back was pretty painful as well.
I still accrue United and American points, there are enough ways to get a decent amount and wring a redemption out of them once a year or so, but most of my focus is on foreign or smaller programs.
Lately I've put all my energy towards Singapore Airlines and Alaska Air. Alaska often sells points cheaply enough that's it's worth it to just buy the points and redeem for partner redemptions. I did that recently and booked SFO-HKG-AKL on Cathay Pacific in first class for 80k points. Buying the 40k I needed was <$600. Well worth it.
Singapore Airlines is a transfer partner with all the transferrable currencies (Chase, Citi, Amex and SPG) which makes earning there easy. The award chart is a bit steep but there are some good deals. My return from that Cathay flight is a Singapore award for AKL-SYD-SIN-NRT-SFO-DEN on Air New Zealand, Singapore Airlines and United with the long-hauls all in first class. I think it was around 120k miles.
I started this game in college when my only goal was free travel—managed to earn enough points before graduation to buy myself a "free" round-trip ticket to Thailand in order to backpack around Southeast Asia for the summer. Now that I have substantially more money, I generally use points to enable cheap premium cabin travel, like buying points when they're on sale from Alaska or LifeMiles and essentially getting deep-discount first or business class tickets.
I've hit most of the cliche churner experiences at this point: being driven in a Porsche to your flight from the Lufthansa first class terminal, Etihad's first class apartment, taste-testing both Dom and Krug in a Singapore Suite. It's an absurd hobby.
And it's a hobby that takes monumental amounts of time to keep up with. Want to book Cathay via Alaska? Better know to ask to agent to look at the right screen on her computer. How do you know that? Because you've been following a 5,000-post thread over on Flyertalk about it. Knowing when and how to correctly apply for your next Citi card means you're following a similar thread over in that part of Flyertalk. Keeping up with the details like that is time consuming. I enjoy the detail work but I don't really know why.
This hobby lets me go on generally two international vacations in first class each year for very little money. I'll be spending three weeks in New Zealand later this year, with time in Hong Kong, Singapore and Tokyo along the way. Last year I spent a week in Tokyo with friends before making my way back via Shanghai, Hong Kong and Dubai—two of those were new cities to me.
I've somehow become very, very good at one of the world's silliest skills.
That said, I have absolutely gotten off a first class fight only to check in to a hostel. Luxury travel actually gets pretty damn boring after about 24 hours IMO. Nothing is less interesting than flying to the other side of the world only to stay in a Hilton marginally nicer than the one in your home town.
I'm well versed with this world, and actually blog sometimes too. Here's some observations:
1. Lots of people use credit card points and frequent flyer miles to buy premier hotel and flight experiences. For example, you can fly from the US to Europe in business class round-trip for ~120,000 points and ~$200 in taxes/fees. Buying a business class roundtrip would cost $2000-7000, depending on which airlines and which times you fly.
2. You can earn points by flying, but the fastest way is by credit card bonuses. Recently the Chase Sapphire Reserve (CSR) had a 100K point bonus if you spent $4,000 in 3 months. You could transfer those Chase points to United and nearly have enough for round-trip business class tickets. To earn 100K United miles by flying would require you to spend $9k+ dollars on united tickets (if you're top tier elite), or fly business class between US-Asia 3 times on their partners or ~6 times in economy. It's waaay faster to use credit card sign-up bonuses to earn points.
3. There are lots of bloggers. boardingarea.com is full of them. Many cards give you referral bonuses for customers, so they just use their affiliate links. They're generally trying to push the links when they can. If you're a bigger blogger, you can get a deal with a bank to get cash per referral as opposed to the "max 5 referrals per year" deal that most people get.
4. The Points Guy (TPG) gets lambasted for using referral links that have the best referral bonuses instead of what's best for the end user. For example, the CSR above (100k/$4k spend), did not give a referral bonus. It's little brother, the Chase Sapphire Preserve (CSP), gave a 50k point bonus for $4k spend, but did give the referrer a bonus as well (10k points, or some cash depending on the deal). TPG regularly linked to the CSP even when every other blog was linking to the CSR.
5. The "golden age of travel" has transformed. In the past, frequent flyer programs were very beneficial, and cards had awesome sign-up bonuses. People would "churn" cards i.e. apply for a card every 90 days to get the sign up bonus and then never use it again. After a few years it wouldn't hurt your credit score, but you can read-up more online. reddit.com/r/churning is generally a good source.
6. Nowadays you still have big card bonuses but they tend to be more for the premium credit cards ($450+ annual fee) instead of no-fee or low-fee cards. In addition, banks are tighter about how often you can apply for those cards.
7. Airlines are much stingier with their award space. Even if a business class flight is supposed to cost 55-60k miles, you need availability from your origin and destination. The airlines can simply limit availability and render your points less useful. American is notorious for this - good luck finding business class awards from the US to anywhere. United is the best because Star Alliance has a ton of partners and usually sufficient availability. Delta has variable awards so sometimes a flight will cost 50k miles and other times it will cost 100k or even 300k miles for the same flight. A real PITA :(
8. You'll notice that I am consistently talking about business class awards. That's because economy fares have become very cheap nowadays that it's better value to just buy them. If you follow Scott's Cheap Flights, you can get notifications of fare deals. You can regularly get $300-400 flights from US-Europe or $500 US-Asia flights. These flights would cost 60-70k miles roundtrip, but with CSR you can "buy them for 1.5 cents per mile," so you can use 25K chase points to buy a $375 flight, and earn miles on that flight. Conversely business class tickets usually go for $2-4K, so using 100K miles is a way better "redemption", if that's what you're interested it. Ultimately it depends on your willingness to pay - some people stretch miles to economy as much as they can.
Hope that helps as a quick primer. Happy to answer any questions. Miles & points is an interesting world but it has gotten less rewarding. Nowadays I just see them as a nice to have but not something I'd go out of my way for.
1. Lots of people use credit card points and frequent flyer miles to buy premier hotel and flight experiences. For example, you can fly from the US to Europe in business class round-trip for ~120,000 points and ~$200 in taxes/fees. Buying a business class roundtrip would cost $2000-7000, depending on which airlines and which times you fly.
2. You can earn points by flying, but the fastest way is by credit card bonuses. Recently the Chase Sapphire Reserve (CSR) had a 100K point bonus if you spent $4,000 in 3 months. You could transfer those Chase points to United and nearly have enough for round-trip business class tickets. To earn 100K United miles by flying would require you to spend $9k+ dollars on united tickets (if you're top tier elite), or fly business class between US-Asia 3 times on their partners or ~6 times in economy. It's waaay faster to use credit card sign-up bonuses to earn points.
3. There are lots of bloggers. boardingarea.com is full of them. Many cards give you referral bonuses for customers, so they just use their affiliate links. They're generally trying to push the links when they can. If you're a bigger blogger, you can get a deal with a bank to get cash per referral as opposed to the "max 5 referrals per year" deal that most people get.
4. The Points Guy (TPG) gets lambasted for using referral links that have the best referral bonuses instead of what's best for the end user. For example, the CSR above (100k/$4k spend), did not give a referral bonus. It's little brother, the Chase Sapphire Preserve (CSP), gave a 50k point bonus for $4k spend, but did give the referrer a bonus as well (10k points, or some cash depending on the deal). TPG regularly linked to the CSP even when every other blog was linking to the CSR.
5. The "golden age of travel" has transformed. In the past, frequent flyer programs were very beneficial, and cards had awesome sign-up bonuses. People would "churn" cards i.e. apply for a card every 90 days to get the sign up bonus and then never use it again. After a few years it wouldn't hurt your credit score, but you can read-up more online. reddit.com/r/churning is generally a good source.
6. Nowadays you still have big card bonuses but they tend to be more for the premium credit cards ($450+ annual fee) instead of no-fee or low-fee cards. In addition, banks are tighter about how often you can apply for those cards.
7. Airlines are much stingier with their award space. Even if a business class flight is supposed to cost 55-60k miles, you need availability from your origin and destination. The airlines can simply limit availability and render your points less useful. American is notorious for this - good luck finding business class awards from the US to anywhere. United is the best because Star Alliance has a ton of partners and usually sufficient availability. Delta has variable awards so sometimes a flight will cost 50k miles and other times it will cost 100k or even 300k miles for the same flight. A real PITA :(
8. You'll notice that I am consistently talking about business class awards. That's because economy fares have become very cheap nowadays that it's better value to just buy them. If you follow Scott's Cheap Flights, you can get notifications of fare deals. You can regularly get $300-400 flights from US-Europe or $500 US-Asia flights. These flights would cost 60-70k miles roundtrip, but with CSR you can "buy them for 1.5 cents per mile," so you can use 25K chase points to buy a $375 flight, and earn miles on that flight. Conversely business class tickets usually go for $2-4K, so using 100K miles is a way better "redemption", if that's what you're interested it. Ultimately it depends on your willingness to pay - some people stretch miles to economy as much as they can.
Hope that helps as a quick primer. Happy to answer any questions. Miles & points is an interesting world but it has gotten less rewarding. Nowadays I just see them as a nice to have but not something I'd go out of my way for.
>Delta has variable awards so sometimes a flight will cost 50k miles and other times it will cost 100k or even 300k miles for the same flight. A real PITA :(
This is what I hate about reward miles. I live in Canada so I collect Airmiles and Aeroplan, not through any credit cards though. The reason I don't have those two reward cards is because every time I would log on, they would say "Reward flights starting at 50k point." But the only flights available were 80k+. Very frustrating.
This is what I hate about reward miles. I live in Canada so I collect Airmiles and Aeroplan, not through any credit cards though. The reason I don't have those two reward cards is because every time I would log on, they would say "Reward flights starting at 50k point." But the only flights available were 80k+. Very frustrating.
What I dislike about this world is how US-centric it is, I have yet to see good recommendations for people in Europe.
In fact, I mostly see the opposite, changes to Lufthansa's FFP have been largely criticized on relevant communities(Flyertalk ).
In fact, I mostly see the opposite, changes to Lufthansa's FFP have been largely criticized on relevant communities(Flyertalk ).
Churning to the degree described in any of the major blogs by and large doesn't exist outside the US. No other market has as many airlines and banks competing for the same business, not the mention the relative lack of regulation.
So the gentry also dont have to endure the TSA shit? Nice
TSA Precheck, assuming you can pass the background check, is $80 and is absolutely worth it if you have the extra cash and can fit an appointment into your schedule.
does TSA recheck require retina scans?
Here's him getting called out on Reddit for some practices: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/471yey/im_the_points_...
The Points Guy and other credit card bloggers are like the people who hold "I Will Teach You To Get Rich" seminars at the Holiday Inn. He never answered when asked how much his salary he makes from his blog is but it's reported to be 7 figures.
This is not the golden age, it's pretty mainstream. Card issues are cracking down on gamers. AMEX just started putting terms about gaming in their application. Citi merged limits on sign up bonuses across their cards. Chase doesn't even approve you if you've opened too many credit cards in the last 24 months (5) and has long called out gaming as against their T&C.
Even if you get a million miles it's a chore to redeem them for something worthwhile. You also have to worry about keeping them from expiring.
I still collect points and miles but don't kid yourself that it's not a commitment. Most people who are serious in the miles/points game go out buying gift cards and then using ever closing loopholes to liquidate the gift cards. It's just crazy some of the time, money, and effort people put into it. Might as well get a part time job at that point.
Personally, in two years, between credit cards and bank accounts I've gotten $6,000 in realized worth (that is redeemed) and at least as much in unrealized worth. I've got my first rejection a few weeks ago.
This is a credit card blog that is independent, the only blog I look at: https://www.doctorofcredit.com