Show HN: Interface Lovers – Interviews with designers(interfacelovers.com)
interfacelovers.com
Show HN: Interface Lovers – Interviews with designers
https://interfacelovers.com
10 comments
I cant speak for design community as a whole, but I do design a fair amount of things including UI. I think many speak of simplicity since it is pretty much rule number one because its tied to use. Anything not needed is waste or simple cosmetics.
What you can do to innovate is often very limited for a few reasons. You would be amazed how many people dont know what a sandwich menu is, if you vary from the "standard" you lose tons of people right off the bat. Also clients are very scared to try anything new simply because they tend to have a "not broke, dont fix it" mentality.
I do a lot of training type interfaces for large companies and I literally try to compress everything down to a 1 button solution. You put 2 buttons marked start and stop and someone will be befuddled right off the bat. Sounds like exaggeration but its not, If anyone has to click a menu to find something you will lose people because they will wonder where something is at and not click. I try to have everything on screen in an "order" and as little as possible. Anything "extra" and people get distracted etc.
Making UI at this point is like making hammers, try to innovate/design a new hammer.
I agree with much of your statement because I see lots of room for improvement, so wasnt trying to come off argumentative. I simply find its usually not just the designer but also who you are designing for that is the limitation.
What you can do to innovate is often very limited for a few reasons. You would be amazed how many people dont know what a sandwich menu is, if you vary from the "standard" you lose tons of people right off the bat. Also clients are very scared to try anything new simply because they tend to have a "not broke, dont fix it" mentality.
I do a lot of training type interfaces for large companies and I literally try to compress everything down to a 1 button solution. You put 2 buttons marked start and stop and someone will be befuddled right off the bat. Sounds like exaggeration but its not, If anyone has to click a menu to find something you will lose people because they will wonder where something is at and not click. I try to have everything on screen in an "order" and as little as possible. Anything "extra" and people get distracted etc.
Making UI at this point is like making hammers, try to innovate/design a new hammer.
I agree with much of your statement because I see lots of room for improvement, so wasnt trying to come off argumentative. I simply find its usually not just the designer but also who you are designing for that is the limitation.
Yes but these are well paid designers at established firms who have room to innovate -- not client contractors. I'd expect a lot more from them.
Less is more.
Hammers are a great example. You'd probably be surprised how many kinds there are. Hand tools still have plenty of room for innovation.
UIs even more so.
Hammers are a great example. You'd probably be surprised how many kinds there are. Hand tools still have plenty of room for innovation.
UIs even more so.
And yet designers nowadays make desktop sites with hamburger menus...
A tangent: I find it interesting that people associate that certain kind of minimalism in interface design with the Japanese, when Japanese web-pages, app GUIs, etc. are pretty much the opposite of that aesthetic.
In architecture, landscaping, civic design, painting, flower arrangement, music, poetry, etc.—sure, there's a specifically Japanese minimalist aesthetic. But in interface design?
In architecture, landscaping, civic design, painting, flower arrangement, music, poetry, etc.—sure, there's a specifically Japanese minimalist aesthetic. But in interface design?
It's an interesting point to bring up, but really Japanese web-pages, &c. aren't really quite the opposite of the minimal aesthetic. What sets them apart and makes them seem non-minimal is that they're highly typographic and in a script that is less minimal in appearance than Roman.
This isn't entirely true - Japanese web design is somewhat more informationally dense, which certainly adds to the effect, but it's still a big part of it.
This isn't entirely true - Japanese web design is somewhat more informationally dense, which certainly adds to the effect, but it's still a big part of it.
Which of these interviews specially gave you that impression? I read a few and searched through the rest with various keywords, and I don't really see how you came to that conclusion.
"minimalis[m/t]" - 2 mentions in 11 interviews, Billy Sweeney (described as having a "minimalist aesthetic"), Sascha Grief (mentions "preserving the previous version's minimalism")
"Japan" - 1 mention in 11 interviews, Sascha Grief (described as "Living in Osaka, Japan.")
"taste" - 1 mention in 11 interviews, Timothy Achumba ("As designers, taste and preference can only take you so far.")
You said "the questions are almost entirely about their taste". It looks like most of the interviews have the same/similar questions, and very few seem are about taste. I've taken some of the more common ones and grouped them into topics below. It seems to me that only the music question (1 of 24) is about taste. Even a much looser categorization does not seem to support your description of these interviews as "entirely" about taste. I would say the majority of the interview focus on tools, process and the job.
BIOGRAPHICAL (3): What do you do? What led you into design? How do you keep improving yourself as a designer?
TOOLS AND PROCESS (9): What does a typical day look like? Describe your working environment and hardware setup? What apps do you have in your dock? What apps do you have on your iPhone? What’s your design process? What do you use to plan initial design concepts? What apps do you use when designing? Do you have a cool design trick/hack/shortcut? How do you go about testing your design or gathering feedback?
WORK (4): What pieces of work are you most proud of? Where do you go to get inspired? What’s a great website for inspiration? What product have you recently seen that made you think this is great design?
TASTE (1): What music do you listen to when designing?
JOB AND COMPANY (6): Why did you join your company? What’s it like working at your company? What design challenge do you face at your company? How do you handle design disagreements at your company? Is your company currently looking for designers? Any tips on designers getting a job at your company?
ADVICE (1): Any advice for ambitious designers?
"minimalis[m/t]" - 2 mentions in 11 interviews, Billy Sweeney (described as having a "minimalist aesthetic"), Sascha Grief (mentions "preserving the previous version's minimalism")
"Japan" - 1 mention in 11 interviews, Sascha Grief (described as "Living in Osaka, Japan.")
"taste" - 1 mention in 11 interviews, Timothy Achumba ("As designers, taste and preference can only take you so far.")
You said "the questions are almost entirely about their taste". It looks like most of the interviews have the same/similar questions, and very few seem are about taste. I've taken some of the more common ones and grouped them into topics below. It seems to me that only the music question (1 of 24) is about taste. Even a much looser categorization does not seem to support your description of these interviews as "entirely" about taste. I would say the majority of the interview focus on tools, process and the job.
BIOGRAPHICAL (3): What do you do? What led you into design? How do you keep improving yourself as a designer?
TOOLS AND PROCESS (9): What does a typical day look like? Describe your working environment and hardware setup? What apps do you have in your dock? What apps do you have on your iPhone? What’s your design process? What do you use to plan initial design concepts? What apps do you use when designing? Do you have a cool design trick/hack/shortcut? How do you go about testing your design or gathering feedback?
WORK (4): What pieces of work are you most proud of? Where do you go to get inspired? What’s a great website for inspiration? What product have you recently seen that made you think this is great design?
TASTE (1): What music do you listen to when designing?
JOB AND COMPANY (6): Why did you join your company? What’s it like working at your company? What design challenge do you face at your company? How do you handle design disagreements at your company? Is your company currently looking for designers? Any tips on designers getting a job at your company?
ADVICE (1): Any advice for ambitious designers?
It's also the similarities in the people. And what did stand out to me: All of them use MacOS, only one had no iPhone. I don't think that is a statement to the quality of the products, I see something else there - a kind of groupthink and tribal behaviour, the same mechanism that leads to all of them "liking" minimal Japanese aesthetic and simplicity.
I think it is a bad sign. If people in a field define themself over superficial stuff like that, are they qualified to judge the quality of their work? Or will they also judge them by their superficial standards, how it looks and whether it follows the newest fad? Based on how often redesigns go wrong I fear it is often the latter.
I think it is a bad sign. If people in a field define themself over superficial stuff like that, are they qualified to judge the quality of their work? Or will they also judge them by their superficial standards, how it looks and whether it follows the newest fad? Based on how often redesigns go wrong I fear it is often the latter.
The design industry is absolutely toxic. It's dripping with this type of stuff. Trends and herd mentality rules everything around designers. It's why I started to move outside of design and into product. There's absolutely no room in the design industry for critical thought or dissenting opinion. It's so wrapped up into itself that any attempts at questioning the status quo are quickly thrown out as hate. I firmly believe that the design industry is a great way to see the deterioration of society at large.
Meh. It's toxic in the way development is toxic. There's a ~5% group of pragmatic systems thinkers, and a long tail of dudes on craigslist building vuln heavy PHP crapware for 25/hr.
But everything in the world is like that! Pizza, burritos, laptops, blue jeans, 3d printers.... it's just the way the math of life works out. Most ponies aren't pegasus. I don't think it's representative of the decline of society, I think it's representative of the distribution of society. And that's an impractical thing to get worked up about.
I'll admit, it's a little lonely though, having the groups that are best qualified to talk about the problems you like, but they're totally disinterested/distracted.
But everything in the world is like that! Pizza, burritos, laptops, blue jeans, 3d printers.... it's just the way the math of life works out. Most ponies aren't pegasus. I don't think it's representative of the decline of society, I think it's representative of the distribution of society. And that's an impractical thing to get worked up about.
I'll admit, it's a little lonely though, having the groups that are best qualified to talk about the problems you like, but they're totally disinterested/distracted.
I think with graphic design becoming a more common skill, the industry's culture has indeed gotten worse. People are more desperate for work and conform to an image and language.
Yea many take their "cue" from a few popular designers and sort of use it to justify their design decisions. Often I feel its newer designers who may not feel comfortable taking a more assertive role in the process. I also notice the same sort of trend in concept art where many look like they use the same "photoshop" technique.
Same story on https://usesthis.com
It got to the point where many interviews overlapped so much they may as well have copy pasted and switched names.
It got to the point where many interviews overlapped so much they may as well have copy pasted and switched names.
Its pretty much based on how easy/effective it is for users to use and understand. A/B test what works and you find it aint much.
Oh and fighting the powers that be to try something new is not to be underestimated. I have had to make many many poor decisions because of owners etc simply based on their taste.
Oh and fighting the powers that be to try something new is not to be underestimated. I have had to make many many poor decisions because of owners etc simply based on their taste.
It might say more about you that you think their 'setups' define them.
"Minimal Japanese aesthetic" -- the same aesthetic that asks of us to download a 100MiB browser runtime for even the most rudimentary desktop GUI app. Meanwhile, in actual Japan, you will find that many Japanese web sites and quite a few Japanese-authored software programs have a very "busy" appearance with lots of text and clickable bits -- and often, make more efficient use of HTML than do the JavaScript-encrusted, but A E S T H E T I C, monstrosities that pass for top design in the west.
Most Japanese websites are designed around phone usage. Older sites - around clamshell phone usage.
Very text heavy, lots of (small) banner ads everywhere, and it all makes a lot of sense if you browse it on an old pre-iPhone/smartphone era internet-capable device. Desktops never really "caught on" in Japan. It was all about cellphones.
Very text heavy, lots of (small) banner ads everywhere, and it all makes a lot of sense if you browse it on an old pre-iPhone/smartphone era internet-capable device. Desktops never really "caught on" in Japan. It was all about cellphones.
My thoughts are somehow related. Imediate feeling when entering the website was that everything looks so bland.
Big photos of the persons not so much about the work.
In a way I guess Interface design is one of the least edgy things you can do in the greater field of communication design since it's mostly about conforming to norm, while in traditional graphic design it can get a lot more crazier.
ah the good old 2000 and something full of ungoogable flash websites with crazy interfaces. Everything is better now in terms of the relevance of content but at the same time something relevant was certantly lost.
ah the good old 2000 and something full of ungoogable flash websites with crazy interfaces. Everything is better now in terms of the relevance of content but at the same time something relevant was certantly lost.
I'm not sure what they mean by "interface"..
They're interface designers. If everyone was trying to be disruptive, we'd have a mess of interfaces and no usability standards.
I think you're missing tsunamifury's point. My interpretation is that he means UI designers have relegated themselves to UI decorators, while the real design challenges these days are on a completely different level.
Think "interior decorator" vs. "city planner". In software, a designer can have enormous impact because there are no physical limits preventing scale... But many designers never look at the big picture, and instead are content to tinker inside their digital artboards looking for the shade of light grey that's most fashionable this week.
Think "interior decorator" vs. "city planner". In software, a designer can have enormous impact because there are no physical limits preventing scale... But many designers never look at the big picture, and instead are content to tinker inside their digital artboards looking for the shade of light grey that's most fashionable this week.
I feel like your last sentence fails to acknowledge the conditions that a lot of UI designers are often just one in a line of cooks.
A great deal of UI designers aren't given the leeway or opportunity to make profound impacts on their particular projects for reasons including limitations of: engineering manpower, data, time, budget, or corporate willingness.
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the time, the majority of UI designers are given project criteria LONG after a lot of things about the project have been set in stone, including if the solution for a particular problem should even be a UI in a device!
The city planner you are thinking of is often a Director/Chief of Product (if an organization even has one) or CCO, not strictly a UI Designer.
A great deal of UI designers aren't given the leeway or opportunity to make profound impacts on their particular projects for reasons including limitations of: engineering manpower, data, time, budget, or corporate willingness.
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the time, the majority of UI designers are given project criteria LONG after a lot of things about the project have been set in stone, including if the solution for a particular problem should even be a UI in a device!
The city planner you are thinking of is often a Director/Chief of Product (if an organization even has one) or CCO, not strictly a UI Designer.
I'd say the problem is that most "Product Managers" I work with now are falling behind Product Designers and Engineers in expertise on making those decisions. Don't get me started on Directors and Executives, who literally could not know less about the decisions being made.
Yes I think you've said it better than me. So many designers are devolving into decorating interfaces instead of designing new products. To be fair, many of them were never truly up to the task, but then I suppose we need a new nomenclature for Product Designers vs Interface layout specialists.
I'm sure that a lot of these designers would love to have the freedom to try new things and to innovate. But unfortunately creating unique interfaces has a very high chance of confusing and frustrating users. Designers have to work within the confines of their users expectations.
" I am disappointed that the design community has gotten sucked into designing itself more than designing for others"
Designers focus on simplicity for others (their users), not for themselves. Much of Apple's early success comes from focusing on simplicity. Users want simplicity. Designers have to constantly remind themselves to keep it simple, rather than 'innovate' and overcomplicate things for the sake of creating something unique.
Google 'Picasso's bull' - it portrays the evolution of good design and the importance of simplicity.
" I am disappointed that the design community has gotten sucked into designing itself more than designing for others"
Designers focus on simplicity for others (their users), not for themselves. Much of Apple's early success comes from focusing on simplicity. Users want simplicity. Designers have to constantly remind themselves to keep it simple, rather than 'innovate' and overcomplicate things for the sake of creating something unique.
Google 'Picasso's bull' - it portrays the evolution of good design and the importance of simplicity.
I did find it interesting that a lot of them seem to use the same tools (Sketch mainly) and whilst I don't mind the minimalism, I tend to think of Scandinavian influences instead of Japanese - the furniture, the typography, and even their web sites. Japan seems to have both extremes: the minimalism of tea houses and temples to the overcrowded feel you get from their modern pop culture.
Designers today laud UX but make the most inaccessible, superflous, gimmicky, unreadable, and yet some how still bland, designs. Minimalism without any of the benefits. Overly garnished designs without any real creativity. Design problems of the flat screen are mostly solved; at this point, they are just creating work for themselves. I can't blame them for that.
Some designs are very good. Normally the ones that go unnoticed.
Same old bunch of faces talking about the same old bunch of stuff.
Forever underwhelmed with design writing in the digital space.
Forever underwhelmed with design writing in the digital space.
Want an actually fascinating read about the future of interface design? Read the best interface is no interface, by Golden Krishna. It's so good.
Pretty cool! As a developer who's currently quite lacking in design capabilities, it's nice to hear about the more product-focused side of things. Will definitely be following this site & the interviewees on Twitter.
I ended clicking through to Stripes homepage(as it was mentioned in an interview under 'What pieces of work are you most proud of?').
I'm not a fan of partial images being shown at default browser zoom - seems too inexact compared to rest of Stripe site. Had to zoom out to 80% to have all device images shown.
http://imgur.com/a/pqFVa
album showing
1) stripe homepage at browser zoom 100% (http://imgur.com/IhhWWLf)
2) stripe homepage at browser zoom 80% (http://imgur.com/Jq6a8fI)
3) all other content on page seems centered as normal. (http://imgur.com/KIZSUuL)
[Not sure if there's a handier way/program to include some kind of measurement ruler on images.]
I'm not a fan of partial images being shown at default browser zoom - seems too inexact compared to rest of Stripe site. Had to zoom out to 80% to have all device images shown.
http://imgur.com/a/pqFVa
album showing
1) stripe homepage at browser zoom 100% (http://imgur.com/IhhWWLf)
2) stripe homepage at browser zoom 80% (http://imgur.com/Jq6a8fI)
3) all other content on page seems centered as normal. (http://imgur.com/KIZSUuL)
[Not sure if there's a handier way/program to include some kind of measurement ruler on images.]
Product Designer here. Agreed that more designers should make full hearted attempts at innovating in Product vs dressings.
We are out there though few.
My last major attempt [1] was to disrupt the desogn process itself, especially in the consumption of lifestyle products.
[1] http://JuicyCanvas.com
We are out there though few.
My last major attempt [1] was to disrupt the desogn process itself, especially in the consumption of lifestyle products.
[1] http://JuicyCanvas.com
Your link returns a 403, i.e. can't access it.
so strange. its up for me.
http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/juicycanvas.com
https://www.browserstack.com/screenshots/293ae9eaa0f9d2a3ded...
can u try another browser?
are u attempting access via https?
http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/juicycanvas.com
https://www.browserstack.com/screenshots/293ae9eaa0f9d2a3ded...
can u try another browser?
are u attempting access via https?
Yes, I'm using the HTTPS Everywhere extension for Chrome and I'm guessing a lot of HN users might as well.
I'll try another browser, but I suggest to enable HTTPS for your site.
I'll try another browser, but I suggest to enable HTTPS for your site.
fixed thanks for catching that!
[deleted]
As a developer who just spent the last night building a visualization tool analyzing reddit data, totally appreciate the value of a good designer.
It is very hard to balance 'simplicity', 'usability' and 'features'.
I had to cut short many features and options because the interface was getting too complex.
It is very hard to balance 'simplicity', 'usability' and 'features'.
I had to cut short many features and options because the interface was getting too complex.
Would be nice to polish the spacings http://imgur.com/a/So2Uh
So all designers use a Mac and an iPhone?
[deleted]
As part of my job I have the pleasure of occasionally working with some of the more recognized product designers in the world, and very few of them are anything other than "basic" in their public taste profile. The majority of their concentration is on market psychology, shifting trends in technology enabling new designs to be possible, and the really hard problems of global design. They tend to have out there hobbies focused around building things and their work process is not a endless flow of whitespace and pretty objects.
All this to say -- I am disappointed that the design community has gotten sucked into designing itself more than designing for others -- a process I know is a lot messier than this website shows.