Maybe it's something you should think about that the first attack you can think of is an ad hominem one?
I am not bemoaning having a minority opinion, rather the inevitable personal attacks that follow, yours being a benign but still pertinent example.
And I'm not an immigration critic: I am totally in support of allowing immigration to the people who help the country. And, before you assume, that doesn't mean they have to be white or european. Note also that "help the country" can't just be defined by the usual hand-wavy bs of "diversity helps everyone" because you might as well say magic/underpant gnomes.
Where do you live in Europe or US that you don't see these effects?
I'm pretty sure every person[0] would choose their sense of "undiluted identity" when push came to shove.
Why?
Because fear of the unknown is a thing and muslims have been vilified a lot.
Anyway, Israel is very aware of the dilution effects. After all, they have been exploiting it (and much stronger arm techniques) to carve out their country.
Ah, another convenient use of "turns out". Fortunately, we are on hackernews so enough people are probably familiar with this very useful turn of phrase[0].
Anyway, back to the topic. It turns out[0] muslim immigrants from troubled regions import their troubles. No, for sure 100%(choose a number) of them aren't the sort that shouts for sharia law, but hey you are going to be importing those. Then what happens? It starts affecting your day-to-day.
I'm all for giving refuge. Hey, I'm an immigrant myself so I see all sorts of value in the arrangement. BUT, part of the reason I immigrated to get away from the crazies/troubles. I also have been able to contribute to my new country (oh the taxes). I am fairly well assimilated in my community and wouldn't dream of trying to change my current society to fit my previous one.
It's sad that political correctness makes it impossible for people to have an actual debate about this without being labelled ignorant/small minded etcs.
Regardless, enlightenment is not a function of downvotes or upvotes[0]. It's definitely not thinking everyone is equal/good/civilized/uncivilized/whatever: that's political correctness.
[0] I bet most of the downvoters haven't interacted in any way with cultures other than their own. They've maybe met a few american-iranian kids and decided that's a close enough approximation of actual Iranians. It's not.
"westernized" is supposed to be denigrating. Thats what I call people who wear hipster clothes but are still misogynistic bastards :) Being westernized means eating your big mac but acting in a backward manner.
Now, being civilized is different than being westernized.
Why? Because roots are important and the melting pot of globalization needs to melt more than one direction and in more facets than just cuisine :)
Oh yeah, what "is the one civilization worth its name today"?
Yup, posting under throwaway because I don't want the downvotes.
Here's my take from interacting with Iranians(ones that grew up in Iran or maybe didn't go to college in the US): they have a chip on their shoulder about western influence and a scarily misogynistic stance( note though, they are, by and large, not religious). Sure, they dress like westerner/hipsters but they still have a weird mix of superiority/inferiority complex.
Am I saying Iranian people are bad/evil? No. I am saying that being brainwashed from a young age, being taught to think and act a certain way doesn't change overnight or even a generation. This generation is, if they are anything more than acting out the normal teenager rebelliousness, going to be the same as the last in all aspects that matter.
And, acting like this isn't the case isn't going to make the problem go away.
I am not bemoaning having a minority opinion, rather the inevitable personal attacks that follow, yours being a benign but still pertinent example.
And I'm not an immigration critic: I am totally in support of allowing immigration to the people who help the country. And, before you assume, that doesn't mean they have to be white or european. Note also that "help the country" can't just be defined by the usual hand-wavy bs of "diversity helps everyone" because you might as well say magic/underpant gnomes.
Where do you live in Europe or US that you don't see these effects?