Ask HN: How do you deal with after work fatigue?
33 comments
I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet:
Do you actually enjoy your current job?
I find that if you don't really enjoy what you're doing, you end up living in this perpetual state of stress. And while that stress might be small at any one given time (minor annoyances here and there), because you're working for 8+ hours/day, it really adds up. Bodies aren't meant to be chronically subjected to cortisol (stress hormone).
I hate my current job, and I completely 100% empathize with the way you feel. I shifted my sleeping schedule so I could get 2-3 hours of work in before leaving for the day, but I just feel so beat down that I can't motivate myself to do anything.
I'm getting ready to leave so I decided to take the rest of my vacation time to prep for interviews. The difference is night and day - I've been studying 10+ hours/day without slowing down and I finally feel like I'm full of energy and hope again.
Maybe you just need a change of scenery.
Do you actually enjoy your current job?
I find that if you don't really enjoy what you're doing, you end up living in this perpetual state of stress. And while that stress might be small at any one given time (minor annoyances here and there), because you're working for 8+ hours/day, it really adds up. Bodies aren't meant to be chronically subjected to cortisol (stress hormone).
I hate my current job, and I completely 100% empathize with the way you feel. I shifted my sleeping schedule so I could get 2-3 hours of work in before leaving for the day, but I just feel so beat down that I can't motivate myself to do anything.
I'm getting ready to leave so I decided to take the rest of my vacation time to prep for interviews. The difference is night and day - I've been studying 10+ hours/day without slowing down and I finally feel like I'm full of energy and hope again.
Maybe you just need a change of scenery.
This. Cortisol is the enemy, so anything you can do to bring down the cortisol will help decrease that tired feeling after 8 hours of work. That means doing three things programmers aren't well known for: eating well ("close to the farm" as my grandfather put it), exercising and sleeping at night. Vitamin C and Omega-3 are supplements that supposedly help with reducing cortisol in the short term.
This is kind of a long story, but bear with me, it's relevant.
I went to a book signing by Brandon Sanderson. Not a huge fan of him as a person, but he's a fantastic writer and an incredibly smart man. He started off the signing with a little story about creativity. When Brandon was in college, he worked 3rd shift at a hotel. He'd go to school in the mornings, sleep in the afternoons, and work all night. He tried to roll his own degree, but they made him stick to the Creative Writing plan. Instead, he decided to mix up his electives -- take as many subjects as he possibly could. A writer needs to know about history, science, philosophy, technology, and so on. You can't just spend all day in English classes and expect to be a well-rounded writer!
So he took as many classes as he could. He'd go to class in the morning, sleep in the afternoon, and then get to work around midnight. In between checking in guests at the hotel, he'd work on his homework, and once his homework was done, he'd write for hours. He wrote his first six or seven novels while working at the hotel (the last one was actually picked up by a publisher or publication).
He said that he had no problem with this schedule... except for his programming class. He was taking a class that used Pascal, and he'd get to work, do his Pascal homework, and then be completely unable to write. He took dozens of classes at university, but the only one that left him completely creatively drained was programming.
In other words, programming took just as much energy out of him as writing did -- it exercises the same brain muscles, so to speak.
I don't really have much of a point to this, other than to say that a rather well-known fantasy author commiserates. Programming is hard. It's draining. It's being non-stop creative in solving problems.
My personal philosophy is this: everything can wait until tomorrow. When the clock hits 5 o'clock, start wrapping up. Find a stopping place, and pick it up tomorrow. Barring servers crashing, the work will still be there tomorrow. I don't check my email, I don't open my laptop, I don't do anything work-related once I get home. Home is me time. Nine-to-five is company time.
I guess there are two things here: programming is hard work, and draw a line between your personal and work life.
I went to a book signing by Brandon Sanderson. Not a huge fan of him as a person, but he's a fantastic writer and an incredibly smart man. He started off the signing with a little story about creativity. When Brandon was in college, he worked 3rd shift at a hotel. He'd go to school in the mornings, sleep in the afternoons, and work all night. He tried to roll his own degree, but they made him stick to the Creative Writing plan. Instead, he decided to mix up his electives -- take as many subjects as he possibly could. A writer needs to know about history, science, philosophy, technology, and so on. You can't just spend all day in English classes and expect to be a well-rounded writer!
So he took as many classes as he could. He'd go to class in the morning, sleep in the afternoon, and then get to work around midnight. In between checking in guests at the hotel, he'd work on his homework, and once his homework was done, he'd write for hours. He wrote his first six or seven novels while working at the hotel (the last one was actually picked up by a publisher or publication).
He said that he had no problem with this schedule... except for his programming class. He was taking a class that used Pascal, and he'd get to work, do his Pascal homework, and then be completely unable to write. He took dozens of classes at university, but the only one that left him completely creatively drained was programming.
In other words, programming took just as much energy out of him as writing did -- it exercises the same brain muscles, so to speak.
I don't really have much of a point to this, other than to say that a rather well-known fantasy author commiserates. Programming is hard. It's draining. It's being non-stop creative in solving problems.
My personal philosophy is this: everything can wait until tomorrow. When the clock hits 5 o'clock, start wrapping up. Find a stopping place, and pick it up tomorrow. Barring servers crashing, the work will still be there tomorrow. I don't check my email, I don't open my laptop, I don't do anything work-related once I get home. Home is me time. Nine-to-five is company time.
I guess there are two things here: programming is hard work, and draw a line between your personal and work life.
I have a different theory: programming shuts down half your brain, giving all the juice to the other half.
When I stop for lunch, the world is in 2D for a while. Then after a few minutes it springs into 3D. I have to guess, that half my brain has been looking through its one eye mostly, coding with all its might. The other half is idling away, not even processing much visually.
I know, the right-brain left-brain thing is not universal. But for me, that's how it works.
When I stop for lunch, the world is in 2D for a while. Then after a few minutes it springs into 3D. I have to guess, that half my brain has been looking through its one eye mostly, coding with all its might. The other half is idling away, not even processing much visually.
I know, the right-brain left-brain thing is not universal. But for me, that's how it works.
There are some things you might want to investigate with a doctor.
1) get your thyroid levels checked.
2) sleep apnea.
3) possibly anemia
4) stress
5) etc
After that advice is around sleep hygiene, then food and exercise, and stress resiliance
1) get your thyroid levels checked.
2) sleep apnea.
3) possibly anemia
4) stress
5) etc
After that advice is around sleep hygiene, then food and exercise, and stress resiliance
Good list.
For me it was at least in part apnea ... still working on number 4.
I'm <160 lbs, 6 feet even, and diagnosed @ 29.
It's not just for the 50+ community.
Exercise, diet (avoid excess oils/fats, sugars, processed foods), loose leaf teas (+honey) instead of coffee, side projects that motivate you. Following through with improving these habits for at least 3 months.
Standing desks help some people as well but not nearly as much as the former combined.
Standing desks help some people as well but not nearly as much as the former combined.
Exercise + side projects is apparently not enough, I've tried for about 4 months already. I have one VERY motivating side project, but somehow can't find the energy to do it. Maybe it's coffee+sugars that's keeping me down.
Friends. If I break the week to see people I like to hang out with in the evening, things go better. My headaches, my mood and my overall tiredness drops. I think that's because those moments allow me to focus on something other than work. Doing the same tasks over and over is a good receipt for feeling like crap at the end of the day. Plus, it is incredibly demotivating entering this loop of house/bus/work-work/bus/house.
8h/day programming is exhausting. I have one hour lunch and spend two hours doing non-programming work (e.g. discussing code with colleagues over IM). If I program 8 hours straight I'd be sleeping at 7 too.
Sorry I wasn't explicit enough. I also have 1 hour lunch, and some discussions with colleagues(although I don't think they cumulate to 2h).
I almost never program exclusively 8 hours in a day. When it does happen, it's either because I'm uniquely inspired -- some insight to a problem that I badly want to resolve -- or there is some crunch deadline approaching fast.
Typically I write code in chunks of time not exceeding two hours, after which I shift to other tasks: catching up on emails; writing specs or drawing diagrams; thinking about larger-picture issues; reading work-related documents or instructional material; talking or IMing with coworkers.
Also, I take walks, go swimming, go for a run, go to the gym, do some pushups, get a coffee, read a book, play a musical instrument in between programming sessions.
Those context shifts make each programming block more meaningful and concentrated for me.
My most productive days usually leave me energized, not exhausted.
Typically I write code in chunks of time not exceeding two hours, after which I shift to other tasks: catching up on emails; writing specs or drawing diagrams; thinking about larger-picture issues; reading work-related documents or instructional material; talking or IMing with coworkers.
Also, I take walks, go swimming, go for a run, go to the gym, do some pushups, get a coffee, read a book, play a musical instrument in between programming sessions.
Those context shifts make each programming block more meaningful and concentrated for me.
My most productive days usually leave me energized, not exhausted.
Are you sure the fatigue is related to work? Have you seen a doctor?
I agree with romanlevin, perhaps this isn't fatigue. Are you certain that you don't have depression? All of the symptoms you are describing can certainly point to it.
Also, look into sleep apnea and breathing disorders while sleeping, if you don't sleep correctly, you will be tired all the time. I personally have this myself and am waiting for treatment.
I didn't thought seeing one, as I feel perfectly fine until 16 or something. Especially when I'm starting the day I feel pretty good and rested.
This recent article in the NewYorker was interesting: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/a-new-theo...
I think most people are not equipped to deal with monotony/drudgery. I find that it really helps to have hobbies that will recharge you mentally. Double plus if that hobby happens to involve physical exercise. Eg: I'm trying to develop swimming and squash as hobbies. There will be days when I'll be be listless and frustrated, but a couple of hours of these mentally relaxes me enormously. Also, I often prefer more active to passive forms of relaxation, like playing pool/carrom by myself. HTH; Good luck!
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Other responses on this thread have good suggestions (friends, etc. Spending time with your partner, or dating might also help). Loneliness is often a trigger for listlessness. Needless to say, get your health checked and ensure you're having a healthy diet.
I think most people are not equipped to deal with monotony/drudgery. I find that it really helps to have hobbies that will recharge you mentally. Double plus if that hobby happens to involve physical exercise. Eg: I'm trying to develop swimming and squash as hobbies. There will be days when I'll be be listless and frustrated, but a couple of hours of these mentally relaxes me enormously. Also, I often prefer more active to passive forms of relaxation, like playing pool/carrom by myself. HTH; Good luck!
----
Other responses on this thread have good suggestions (friends, etc. Spending time with your partner, or dating might also help). Loneliness is often a trigger for listlessness. Needless to say, get your health checked and ensure you're having a healthy diet.
Hi Zuzu
This sounds like the work you do in those 8 hours is either:
1. Not challenging enough or
2. Too much for one guy (you) to handle.
You're zoned out. Figure out which one it is. There are meditation techniques to give your mind the space and time to think about this. A simple break (a week or more) away from the work is often good enough for me while my mind subconsciously processes things. (Don't do any work during this break!)
If you find that the work is not challenging enough, change your environment, move slowly into more and more challenging work where you feel the feedback of accomplishment re-energises you. If this move is based on a request to a boss, client etc and it falls on deaf ears, start looking for another job/client.
If the work is too challenging, ask for sensible deadlines (fuk I hate deadlines!), scope reductions and a kinder work environment. If this request of yours falls on deaf ears, start making plans to quit for an alternative that is better.
The fact that you picked this up is already a good sign.
Good luck!
This sounds like the work you do in those 8 hours is either:
1. Not challenging enough or
2. Too much for one guy (you) to handle.
You're zoned out. Figure out which one it is. There are meditation techniques to give your mind the space and time to think about this. A simple break (a week or more) away from the work is often good enough for me while my mind subconsciously processes things. (Don't do any work during this break!)
If you find that the work is not challenging enough, change your environment, move slowly into more and more challenging work where you feel the feedback of accomplishment re-energises you. If this move is based on a request to a boss, client etc and it falls on deaf ears, start looking for another job/client.
If the work is too challenging, ask for sensible deadlines (fuk I hate deadlines!), scope reductions and a kinder work environment. If this request of yours falls on deaf ears, start making plans to quit for an alternative that is better.
The fact that you picked this up is already a good sign.
Good luck!
Try introducing short breaks every hour or so. 5 minutes, perhaps 10 every other time.
When doing so, walk around a bit. It is important to physically separate yourself from the work area. I recommend going outside and taking your mind off of whatever task(s) you are immersed in solving. Doing so with a coworker you get along with often adds to the benefit.
HTH
When doing so, walk around a bit. It is important to physically separate yourself from the work area. I recommend going outside and taking your mind off of whatever task(s) you are immersed in solving. Doing so with a coworker you get along with often adds to the benefit.
HTH
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It seems odd that nobody has mentioned this.. but take a nap.
I set a phone timer for 18 minutes, lay down in the dark, and nap for a bit. 18 minutes is completely arbitrary, but my body has adjusted to that time specifically, for me.
I set a phone timer for 18 minutes, lay down in the dark, and nap for a bit. 18 minutes is completely arbitrary, but my body has adjusted to that time specifically, for me.
I had issues similar to this twice. The first time when i was in college, i consulted a doctor. He diagonised vitamin deficiency due to poor food at hostel. The vitamin supplements helped a lot. It felt like a switch was flipped on. Another time was quite recently. I had healthy diet and exercise almost everyday. Yet i often felt drained. Adding a yoga session in the morning made a huge difference. Around that time, i also stopping sitting for long periods and moved a lot more. I am trying a make shift standing desk. Maybe that helped too.
I find that taking short breaks for intense things like studying and coding helps. I shoot for 50 Min on 10 off. Time off will be something undemanding like slashdot or hacker news. Tweak the times to find what works.
Also if you go wide open for any long period with no down time you are going to burn out and start thrashing. 2 weeks is my limit.
Intention is important. If I start the day with the intent of having something left over for myself at the end it really helps.
Also if you go wide open for any long period with no down time you are going to burn out and start thrashing. 2 weeks is my limit.
Intention is important. If I start the day with the intent of having something left over for myself at the end it really helps.
1) exercise before work (this should help, but it sounds like you've already tried it)
2) eat breakfast before work
3) get out of the office for lunch, maybe even have a beer with friends, once in a while
4) stand up for yourself while at work -- challenge silly tasks and try to delegate 'crap' work
5) get a medical checkup
2) eat breakfast before work
3) get out of the office for lunch, maybe even have a beer with friends, once in a while
4) stand up for yourself while at work -- challenge silly tasks and try to delegate 'crap' work
5) get a medical checkup
4-5 years ago I had the same problem, I even fell asleep in front of the computer at work! My solution is really simple: huge dose of vitamin. I use "Scitec Multi Pro Plus" as my daily vitamin since then, and it works like a charm.
Try learning a form of relaxing moving meditation : tai-chi, or qi-gong.
It helps you to relearn to relax your parasympathetic nervous system, which might get 'jammed' in the day being stuck at a desk for 6+ hours.
It helps you to relearn to relax your parasympathetic nervous system, which might get 'jammed' in the day being stuck at a desk for 6+ hours.
my fatigue improved greatly once I improved my diet.
Eat less sugar, get some fresh fruit and veg, take a probiotic of some kind. Nothing too drastic, but it makes a big difference
What has helped me was working on side projects during my commute.
a) think about changing your job or even career.
b) If you dont think the fatigue is work related, you need to find a hobby and or a relationships that help you feel energized.
c)For many people work is not calling , but a means to a good life, and that is OK.
d)And regardless of what fatigues you ,take frequent breaks. Make it a point to go on vacations. Sometimes, being away from things helps to see them clearer.
You may not be getting enough sunlight (Vitamin D).
It is very common in such professions.
walking home if possible. Some time ago I figured that I need around 45 minutes to completely disconnect and refresh from an intense day of work.
I'm not able to do the meaningless task, and sometimes I just get into bed at 7 and sleep.
I suppose that the nature of our jobs depletes our will and maybe that's why I'm like this. I tried doing some push-ups, going by bike to work, quitting smoking, but didn't solve much.
So if anyone was in the same position and found a way to get by, I would really appreciate some advices. I feel I live only during the week-ends.