Setting the Record Straight on Tor(corporate.comcast.com)
corporate.comcast.com
Setting the Record Straight on Tor
http://corporate.comcast.com/comcast-voices/setting-the-record-straight-on-tor
12 comments
Eh?
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2011-June/02...
http://www.dailydot.com/politics/six-steps-nsa-attack-tor/
Yes they can tell if you use TOR. TOR is like a VPN, it can be detected but it doesn't tell the ISP what you are doing while you use it.
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2011-June/02...
http://www.dailydot.com/politics/six-steps-nsa-attack-tor/
Yes they can tell if you use TOR. TOR is like a VPN, it can be detected but it doesn't tell the ISP what you are doing while you use it.
It's a very good sign that Comcast is posting this kind of correction. It indicates that they perceive a broad social consensus that supporting internet anonymity is a crucial responsibility of an ISP, and lends credence to the ongoing importance of net neutrality.
It also, as a secondary effect, might incline us to look more favorably on Comcast's arguments regarding backbone capacity negotiations.
It also, as a secondary effect, might incline us to look more favorably on Comcast's arguments regarding backbone capacity negotiations.
They didn't actually say they didn't monitor Tor tho. :/
That is why I'm kinda amused by the positive posts.
They said they don't monitor people's browsers and http connections. TOR wouldn't look like that at all to them. Its a lie of omission. They clearly monitor Torrents, etc.
That is why I'm kinda amused by the positive posts.
They said they don't monitor people's browsers and http connections. TOR wouldn't look like that at all to them. Its a lie of omission. They clearly monitor Torrents, etc.
Even if the details weren't entirely consistent, the fact that they made any sort of statement at all is cause for optimism.
It's a little scary how quickly an unsourced and highly questionable story can spread when it feeds a popular narrative (in this case that Comcast is evil).
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~ Mark Twain, Winston Churchill, Jonathan Swift, or some other person who said things good.
Whoever said it, they said it before the dawn of the internet. What was once a figurative embellishment is now the literal truth. This story was almost everywhere on social media before any of the high level people at Comcast had the chance to put their shoes on and show up at work on Monday morning to comment on it.
Whoever said it, they said it before the dawn of the internet. What was once a figurative embellishment is now the literal truth. This story was almost everywhere on social media before any of the high level people at Comcast had the chance to put their shoes on and show up at work on Monday morning to comment on it.
Great quote!
It's a little scary how a denial by the company can easily dissuade a dissenting opinion.
"Customers are free to use their Xfinity Internet service to visit any website, use any app, and so forth."
Any app, but not on any device as I found out when I tried to activate HBO GO on a Roku. Apparently if Comcast is your ISP, you cannot use HBO GO on your Roku (or PS3 for that matter).
EDIT: You can see what devices are supported here: http://www.hbogo.com/activate/
Any app, but not on any device as I found out when I tried to activate HBO GO on a Roku. Apparently if Comcast is your ISP, you cannot use HBO GO on your Roku (or PS3 for that matter).
EDIT: You can see what devices are supported here: http://www.hbogo.com/activate/
Sort of.
Its important to note that there is a difference between what they restrict in the way of internet traffic, and what they sponsor in terms of allowing access to specific content over the internet.
The services that you log into via your Comcast account (I use HBO Go, HGTV, NBC Live Extra...) are provided by an agreement between the content provider and the carrier. They aren't stopping you from using HBO Go on a Roku with their internet service, and your friend with FiOS can hook his Roku up and watch shows at your house over your Xfinity connection.
Its important to note that there is a difference between what they restrict in the way of internet traffic, and what they sponsor in terms of allowing access to specific content over the internet.
The services that you log into via your Comcast account (I use HBO Go, HGTV, NBC Live Extra...) are provided by an agreement between the content provider and the carrier. They aren't stopping you from using HBO Go on a Roku with their internet service, and your friend with FiOS can hook his Roku up and watch shows at your house over your Xfinity connection.
That's a fair distinction.
I guess it's more that you cannot activate HBO Go on a Roku using your Comcast credentials as Comcast is not an option in that configuration. Not that they block the traffic or something.
I agree with the distinction, still just as irritated.
I guess it's more that you cannot activate HBO Go on a Roku using your Comcast credentials as Comcast is not an option in that configuration. Not that they block the traffic or something.
I agree with the distinction, still just as irritated.
Wow, I'd never seen that. What an odd restriction.
Probably a restriction imposed by HBO because they have been so terrified of loosing their content into non-traditional outlets.
Definitely not this. HBO has written an app specifically for the Roku. As far as I can tell, Comcast is the only provider who disallows access to the Roku version of the app.
I can use the HBO Android app with Comcast just fine and push to a Chromecast, but not the Roku.
It's a ridiculous situation, Comcast is intentionally blocking Roku while HBO is embracing it.
I can use the HBO Android app with Comcast just fine and push to a Chromecast, but not the Roku.
It's a ridiculous situation, Comcast is intentionally blocking Roku while HBO is embracing it.
Ahh, I stand corrected then.
Today we should be thankful that our ruler has a good policy on Tor. Should they change their mind we could do nothing about it.
The only way to change this is to make it so that enough people are using (mutually-indistinguishable) encrypted protocols, that blocking such protocols would cripple the ISP's business.
The earlier thread on this, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8318652, was (appropriately) flagged by users. But it did have a judicious top comment.
I know it's a word vomit blast, but tried to post this comment on the page; I doubt it'll get approved or replied to...
" ...educational and voluntary copyright program." -- volunteer, hum, afaik and from what I recall from seeing these in the past; by clicking on any of the links in one of those emails, you are admitting guilt. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I take it that if you respond to these you admit that you downloaded something & if you just ignore there is nothing you (comcast) can do to prove otherwise (what if you have an open network, share your key with friends, etc.) Likewise, who would want to volunteer for a program that profiles what their downloading. While you say you don't "terminate" users based on copyright infringement, the fact is that you are monitoring your users to differentiate who's doing what. I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I don't believe this PR stunt. I know it means nothing, since I'm from the internet (and who should take me seriously), but I've been a corporate customer, and have worked with residential users of comcast, and would not doubt nefarious monitoring. If you would like anyone to take you seriously proof would be nice, not just a inconsequential mess of "yeah, we promise we're not monitoring you, and I, Jason, am using tor, so it's okay." For one you're the VP, no one would dare step on your toes, you don't count! "
" ...educational and voluntary copyright program." -- volunteer, hum, afaik and from what I recall from seeing these in the past; by clicking on any of the links in one of those emails, you are admitting guilt. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I take it that if you respond to these you admit that you downloaded something & if you just ignore there is nothing you (comcast) can do to prove otherwise (what if you have an open network, share your key with friends, etc.) Likewise, who would want to volunteer for a program that profiles what their downloading. While you say you don't "terminate" users based on copyright infringement, the fact is that you are monitoring your users to differentiate who's doing what. I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I don't believe this PR stunt. I know it means nothing, since I'm from the internet (and who should take me seriously), but I've been a corporate customer, and have worked with residential users of comcast, and would not doubt nefarious monitoring. If you would like anyone to take you seriously proof would be nice, not just a inconsequential mess of "yeah, we promise we're not monitoring you, and I, Jason, am using tor, so it's okay." For one you're the VP, no one would dare step on your toes, you don't count! "
You have badly misunderstood what the copyright program is and how it works. The ISP volunteered to participate, not the user. And they don't monitor traffic for violations, they accept notices of violations observered by outside content companies.
[deleted](2)
We do not terminate customers for violating the Copyright Alert System (aka "six strikes"), which is a non-punitive, educational and voluntary copyright program.
Since when is this "voluntary"? I'm guessing in that if you choose not to subscribe to any ISP, I guess you wouldn't be 'enrolled' in the program, but you also wouldn't have internet service, about as 'voluntary' as breathing is to life.
Since when is this "voluntary"? I'm guessing in that if you choose not to subscribe to any ISP, I guess you wouldn't be 'enrolled' in the program, but you also wouldn't have internet service, about as 'voluntary' as breathing is to life.
It's voluntary in that the ISP is not forced into using it. They just force you to use it.
Whatever may be wrong with Comcast (connectivity-wise I'm soooo glad I don't live in the US), this is absolutely exemplary damage control PR.
Clear, accessible, no weasel words, no lawyer-speak, to the point and with a human touch to round it of.
Clear, accessible, no weasel words, no lawyer-speak, to the point and with a human touch to round it of.
Eh? They stated they didn't monitor stuff via a browser.
The thing is, a client connection to the TOR network wouldn't look like a HTTP request. So "No we don't monitor your browser traffic" is the equivalent of saying "Yes, we do monitor if you do something other than use a browser to surf the web" in a situation where the object of discussion isn't a browser.
The thing is, a client connection to the TOR network wouldn't look like a HTTP request. So "No we don't monitor your browser traffic" is the equivalent of saying "Yes, we do monitor if you do something other than use a browser to surf the web" in a situation where the object of discussion isn't a browser.
Well, they addressed the content of the allegations, but not the source, other than saying that the chat transcript was "inaccurate". In what way, we don't know. Was it completely fabricated? Was the Comcast representative misinformed? Have they backtracked on their policy?
The fact that they don't address it at all suggests to me that they haven't drafted a damage-controlled explanation yet.
The fact that they don't address it at all suggests to me that they haven't drafted a damage-controlled explanation yet.
They said something similar about the non-compliant service rep who would not cancel service.
They are skilled at PR, but are not necessarily telling the truth.
They are skilled at PR, but are not necessarily telling the truth.
> Comcast doesn’t monitor our customer’s browser software, web surfing or online history.
I'd take this as evidence they monitor every connection that isn't over http ... which happens to include VPNs and Tor. Otherwise, they would have just said "We do not monitor your internet connection except to gather aggregate statistics for billing purposes".
I'd take this as evidence they monitor every connection that isn't over http ... which happens to include VPNs and Tor. Otherwise, they would have just said "We do not monitor your internet connection except to gather aggregate statistics for billing purposes".
"Comcast doesn’t monitor our customer’s browser software, web surfing or online history."
That would imply that they don't even have a log of what requests are passing through their system. I find that extremely hard to believe.
> That would imply that they don't even have a log of what requests are passing through their system. I find that extremely hard to believe.
They damn well better not be.
They damn well better not be.
"Comcast did not respond to our inquiries but has mentioned a 180 day retention policy for IP-addresses in BitTorrent-related court documents. On some occasions cases have been dismissed because logs were no longer available, meaning that alleged infringers could not be identified.
The 180 day policy is also mentioned in the Comcast Law Enforcement Handbook that leaked in 2007."
https://torrentfreak.com/how-long-does-your-isp-store-ip-add...
https://blog.ryankearney.com/2013/01/comcast-caught-intercep...
They are clearly logging some things. I'm mostly amused people want to downvote my comment and pretend it isn't happening.
The 180 day policy is also mentioned in the Comcast Law Enforcement Handbook that leaked in 2007."
https://torrentfreak.com/how-long-does-your-isp-store-ip-add...
https://blog.ryankearney.com/2013/01/comcast-caught-intercep...
They are clearly logging some things. I'm mostly amused people want to downvote my comment and pretend it isn't happening.
> Comcast did not respond to our inquiries but has mentioned a 180 day retention policy for IP-addresses in BitTorrent-related court documents.
That sounds like they keep the DHCP logs for that long, i.e. which subscriber's router was assigned a particular IP address at a particular time. That's a far cry from logging actual traffic.
That sounds like they keep the DHCP logs for that long, i.e. which subscriber's router was assigned a particular IP address at a particular time. That's a far cry from logging actual traffic.
My point is they are logging some things aren't very open about what exactly they log. They use ambiguous wording.
Why would a road keep a copy of cars that traverse it? The 'requests' aren't addressed to Comcast, they are addressed to... well, news.ycombinator.com for example.
May I suggest you research that analogy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_light_control_and_coord...
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/business/videolog/
"The New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT) maintains traffic cameras on many interstates and other New Jersey State highway systems. The cameras are mounted on poles and record traffic conditions, traffic delays, incidents and weather conditions. They are monitored around the clock at NJDOT's Statewide Traffic Management Center.
In the Department's video camera system, video is recorded and retained at NJDOT for seven (7) days. "
You were saying?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_light_control_and_coord...
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/business/videolog/
"The New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT) maintains traffic cameras on many interstates and other New Jersey State highway systems. The cameras are mounted on poles and record traffic conditions, traffic delays, incidents and weather conditions. They are monitored around the clock at NJDOT's Statewide Traffic Management Center.
In the Department's video camera system, video is recorded and retained at NJDOT for seven (7) days. "
You were saying?
s/would/should/ :/
Because its traffic lights use video cameras for input, those developers had to debug the system somehow, management kept the functionality enabled because there might be a business case some day, and storage is always getting cheaper.
(I'm not saying it's good.)
(I'm not saying it's good.)
What about "online history" indicates that they only mean HTTP? Online encompasses a lot more than the World Wide Web.
> Comcast doesn’t monitor our customer’s browser software, web surfing or online history.
That implies in relation to browser/web surfing. In relation to that, it implies browser history to me.
That implies in relation to browser/web surfing. In relation to that, it implies browser history to me.
Comcast seems to get negative press on reddit - at least as much as Netflix has positive. The site must be very easy for marketeers to game.
Or Comcast just is that terrible. I'm not sure people are faking these 30 minutes long captures of a sales person repeatedly asking you to upgrade when you are calling to cancel.
Comcast is really that terrible. And yes, that is why things like http://www.reddit.com/r/hailcorporate exist.
I normally would take a cynical approach and agree that gaming reddit is that easy.
But when my fairly conservative parents hate a company enough to desire government regulation against them... That company truly must be that horrible.
But when my fairly conservative parents hate a company enough to desire government regulation against them... That company truly must be that horrible.
I don't think it's marketers.
One person makes a negative post about it and gets to the front page so other people think "I know, I'll also make a negative post and get to the front page and get a ton of karma." And everyone upvotes people who confirm their own opinions.
Now because of the reputation, anyone who is going to talk to Comcast will record the call, just in case. And the people who do have the call go bad will quick post it to reddit to get popular.
One person makes a negative post about it and gets to the front page so other people think "I know, I'll also make a negative post and get to the front page and get a ton of karma." And everyone upvotes people who confirm their own opinions.
Now because of the reputation, anyone who is going to talk to Comcast will record the call, just in case. And the people who do have the call go bad will quick post it to reddit to get popular.
I don't think there are any shadowy marketing figures pulling strings.
The marketing hype for Netflix on Reddit is astounding.
I've stopped reading many movie related subs because of it.
I've stopped reading many movie related subs because of it.
Someone was likely threatened with disconnection for the former. This is probably the source of the confusion.