Toward an inclusive hackathon culture(timmesserschmidt.com)
timmesserschmidt.com
Toward an inclusive hackathon culture
http://timmesserschmidt.com/blog/2014/09/10/hackathon-culture/
5 comments
It's depressing that in 2014 this is something being discussed at all.
It's equally depressing that otherwise intelligent people will try to argue against codes of conduct, not realizing that as white men, they have literally no say in the matter (or at least shouldn't, even though many throw around their weight and privilege in order to disrupt things). I'd think that in a community so forward-looking and forward-thinking, people would have enough sense to be on the right side of history, instead of going down with the ship clutching their confederate dollars.
It's equally depressing that otherwise intelligent people will try to argue against codes of conduct, not realizing that as white men, they have literally no say in the matter (or at least shouldn't, even though many throw around their weight and privilege in order to disrupt things). I'd think that in a community so forward-looking and forward-thinking, people would have enough sense to be on the right side of history, instead of going down with the ship clutching their confederate dollars.
not realizing that as white men, they have literally no say in the matter
...Wait, we're excluding people from discussions on the basis of race and gender now? And calling that "forward-thinking"?
...Wait, we're excluding people from discussions on the basis of race and gender now? And calling that "forward-thinking"?
Uh, yes, when it comes to women's safety and women's rights, men have literally nothing to add to the discussion. It isn't the 1800s. Men do not own women's bodies or spaces.
Thinking that your opinion is universally relevant is simple entitlement.
Thinking that your opinion is universally relevant is simple entitlement.
> It's equally depressing that otherwise intelligent people will try to argue against codes of conduct, not realizing that as white men, they have literally no say in the matter
If its codes of conduct for a community they are part of, they certainly do have a say (and can reasonably expected to leave the community and form their own if they are denied that say.)
If its codes of conduct for a community they are part of, they certainly do have a say (and can reasonably expected to leave the community and form their own if they are denied that say.)
WOMAN: I find it creepy and threatening when men hit on me at hackathons and I'd like it to stop.
MAN: But what about my right to have a say in the communities I'm a part of?
...yeah.
MAN: But what about my right to have a say in the communities I'm a part of?
...yeah.
If there's a problem with the man's viewpoint, its with the viewpoint, not with the gender of the person who holds it.
What is the exact problem with someone saying "One of the reasons I attend hackathons is to hit on chicks"? Is it the phrasing or the concept itself? Would it be more acceptable to say "One of the reasons I attend hackathons is to meet interesting and attractive women", or is the idea itself the problem?
I can definitely imagine someone objecting to being described as "a chick" instead of "a woman". However, I don't mind being described as "a dude", and I don't really understand the difference between the two.
I can definitely imagine someone objecting to being described as "a chick" instead of "a woman". However, I don't mind being described as "a dude", and I don't really understand the difference between the two.
The problem is, "one of the reasons I attend hackathons is to [distract other people from hacking]".
Really, turning it into a gender/oppression/whatever issue obscures the problem -- other attendees are present for a well-known purpose, and you're there not just for some other purpose (which wouldn't necessarily be that big a deal, ex. sponsors/recruiters) but to interfere with their achieving that purpose.
Really, turning it into a gender/oppression/whatever issue obscures the problem -- other attendees are present for a well-known purpose, and you're there not just for some other purpose (which wouldn't necessarily be that big a deal, ex. sponsors/recruiters) but to interfere with their achieving that purpose.
I agree that it's a problem if someone is there just to cause a distraction and not there for the hackathon itself. However, when I attend a hackathon, it's because I'm legitimately interested in hacking on X and in meeting other people interested in X. (If I only wanted to efficiently write code and not meet cool people, I'd just do it at my own desk!)
It's the concept. It objectifies women. A hackfest is not a nightclub or a dating site. Having to constantly turn down sexual advances is awkward, and many times physically dangerous, and it has an effect of excluding women from spaces.
It's basic male entitlement to think that women should be receptive to their advances, at any time and in any place. Having to fend off creepy, socially awkward men makes conferences and the tech field as a whole incredibly hard to be in as a woman, and as a result, computer science is dragging literally all of STEM down with its grossly imbalanced gender ratio.
It's basic male entitlement to think that women should be receptive to their advances, at any time and in any place. Having to fend off creepy, socially awkward men makes conferences and the tech field as a whole incredibly hard to be in as a woman, and as a result, computer science is dragging literally all of STEM down with its grossly imbalanced gender ratio.
It seems an overgeneralization to claim that a heterosexual man flirting at a hackathon is by definition "objectifying" her or that it implies that he thinks "that women should be receptive to their advances at any time and in any place". It is equally plausible that he's interested in her as a person (and not as a mere object), and that he respects her right to reject his advances. I acknowledge that it's certainly possible that a man (or woman) could make advances in ways that are disrespectful and that shouldn't be tolerated, but I don't see how expressing romantic or sexual interest in this context is intrinsically evil.
I agree that disrespectful behavior should not be tolerated, but I don't believe that all expressions of romantic interest outside of dating websites and nightclubs are intrinsically disrespectful.
I agree that disrespectful behavior should not be tolerated, but I don't believe that all expressions of romantic interest outside of dating websites and nightclubs are intrinsically disrespectful.
I don't recall stating anything about definitions; however, if you're a man approaching someone at a hackathon, you probably don't know the person otherwise (or you'd do so at a more appropriate place and time) and you're probably doing so on the basis of appearance (i.e., objectifying women). You're probably doing so because you think she'll be receptive (I have no idea what logic constructs these thoughts but men have them nonetheless).
I would say that your comment is a perfect example of male entitlement. Is it really so impossible to restrain yourself for the few hours a hackathon lasts?
Regardless of whether you actually are the one "nice guy" who would be respectful of a declined proposition, women have no such luxury. Because of our cultural focus on blaming women victims of sexual assault, women are taught (and rightly so) to be cautious of men, and a man becoming violent or threatening because of rejection is incredibly common. Forcing a woman to go through an incredibly stressful and frankly frightening experience, because you feel entitled to do so, is simply chauvinist. It demonstrates that you think your right to hit on women is primary compared to women's safety and mental well-being.
If you don't think that's intrinsically evil, I guess you just don't think women are human to the same degree you are, which is pretty common sentiment in tech circles.
I would say that your comment is a perfect example of male entitlement. Is it really so impossible to restrain yourself for the few hours a hackathon lasts?
Regardless of whether you actually are the one "nice guy" who would be respectful of a declined proposition, women have no such luxury. Because of our cultural focus on blaming women victims of sexual assault, women are taught (and rightly so) to be cautious of men, and a man becoming violent or threatening because of rejection is incredibly common. Forcing a woman to go through an incredibly stressful and frankly frightening experience, because you feel entitled to do so, is simply chauvinist. It demonstrates that you think your right to hit on women is primary compared to women's safety and mental well-being.
If you don't think that's intrinsically evil, I guess you just don't think women are human to the same degree you are, which is pretty common sentiment in tech circles.
This. 1000 times this.
It's ok to go to a hackathon to meet people in general and to maintain the hope that you'll make a connection with someone you find attractive.
It's not ok to try to flirt at a hackathon with someone who is doing her darnedest to be taken seriously as a professional. You have no idea how frustrating it is to have people take more and earlier note of the fact that one has two X chromosomes than of one's intellectual abilities, especially in a nominally professional setting. And that's before we even get to dealing with actual unwanted advances.
It's ok to go to a hackathon to meet people in general and to maintain the hope that you'll make a connection with someone you find attractive.
It's not ok to try to flirt at a hackathon with someone who is doing her darnedest to be taken seriously as a professional. You have no idea how frustrating it is to have people take more and earlier note of the fact that one has two X chromosomes than of one's intellectual abilities, especially in a nominally professional setting. And that's before we even get to dealing with actual unwanted advances.
It's basic male entitlement to think that women should be receptive to their advances, at any time and in any place.
...Yeah, that's bullshit (and offensive misandrist bullshit at that). There's nothing gender-specific, and nothing to do with "entitlement".
It's more failure to recognize that someone who's busy with something they like, probably won't enjoy being interrupted (no matter how much the topic is something you like).
...Yeah, that's bullshit (and offensive misandrist bullshit at that). There's nothing gender-specific, and nothing to do with "entitlement".
It's more failure to recognize that someone who's busy with something they like, probably won't enjoy being interrupted (no matter how much the topic is something you like).
Haha, "misandry."
Great way to out yourself as a redpiller; I sincerely hope you gain the emotional maturity necessary to overcome your mail privilege/entitlement and have a fulfilling life.
Great way to out yourself as a redpiller; I sincerely hope you gain the emotional maturity necessary to overcome your mail privilege/entitlement and have a fulfilling life.
I think that that may be too quick to infer group entitlement when the underlying issue is individual narcissism.
Consider it during judging.
I was recently at MHacks as a sponsor, and our 3 top hack choices were half or more than half female. We gave shout-outs to 2 of them, and our sponsor prize to our top choice.
At final presentations, the top 14 apps were seated separately from the rest... People started to notice it was an all male group. It looked and felt wrong. There's just no way that all 14 of those teams were more worthy of stage demos, and it's not encouraging for future participation.
I was recently at MHacks as a sponsor, and our 3 top hack choices were half or more than half female. We gave shout-outs to 2 of them, and our sponsor prize to our top choice.
At final presentations, the top 14 apps were seated separately from the rest... People started to notice it was an all male group. It looked and felt wrong. There's just no way that all 14 of those teams were more worthy of stage demos, and it's not encouraging for future participation.
Can you link the 14 + 3 apps and let us evaluate them?
I do believe discrimination exists in our industry and have written about it, but I don't like to automatically assume its the default reason.
I do believe discrimination exists in our industry and have written about it, but I don't like to automatically assume its the default reason.
This is the full list: http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions
I can't seem to find a list of the top 14. Here's an article than mentions a few of them: http://t.co/DdOmmQiaLY
The ones we liked: Leaftagger (a very useful developer tool for iOS developers) http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26195-leaftag...
Comfort App (not my favorite idea, but the entire process worked flawlessly, and it was very polished.) http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26197-comfort
FB Crypt - I normally super-hate any sort of browser extensions at hackathons, but seamlessly PGP encrypting/decrypting Facebook Chat was a great challenge. http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26314-fb-cryp...
Another trend I see is that if the hack appears sexy or innovative, even if it is not, it will go far. Android for iPhone took 2nd place... It was pitched as if an AOSP copy of Android was running on the phone, but quickly became clear it is just screen sharing like VNC. I've become a serious hackathon judging critic. YC Hacks finalist group was mostly embarrassing.
I can't seem to find a list of the top 14. Here's an article than mentions a few of them: http://t.co/DdOmmQiaLY
The ones we liked: Leaftagger (a very useful developer tool for iOS developers) http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26195-leaftag...
Comfort App (not my favorite idea, but the entire process worked flawlessly, and it was very polished.) http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26197-comfort
FB Crypt - I normally super-hate any sort of browser extensions at hackathons, but seamlessly PGP encrypting/decrypting Facebook Chat was a great challenge. http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26314-fb-cryp...
Another trend I see is that if the hack appears sexy or innovative, even if it is not, it will go far. Android for iPhone took 2nd place... It was pitched as if an AOSP copy of Android was running on the phone, but quickly became clear it is just screen sharing like VNC. I've become a serious hackathon judging critic. YC Hacks finalist group was mostly embarrassing.
Thanks for sharing the links. To be honest, I am not well-informed enough to judge them.
As for: "Another trend I see is that if the hack appears sexy or innovative...it will go far." I hate that too, but now accept it as reality. I am actively working on my showmanship.
As for: "Another trend I see is that if the hack appears sexy or innovative...it will go far." I hate that too, but now accept it as reality. I am actively working on my showmanship.
1. Don't be a dick. (Seriously it's a bit disturbing how much work goes in to using lots of words to try to define this explicitly, only to end up with key parts being subjective anyway ("offensive" is in the eye of the beholder, etc).)
2. Don't forget that drowsy driving (say, after staying up hacking all night) is at least as dangerous as drunk driving. (And of course drowsy hacking is just silly, for much the same reason.)
2. Don't forget that drowsy driving (say, after staying up hacking all night) is at least as dangerous as drunk driving. (And of course drowsy hacking is just silly, for much the same reason.)
Anyway, here are the first two links:
https://medium.com/@superandomness/hackathons-are-for-hackin...
http://rubinovitz.com/post/97138278847/the-future-of-hackath...