Ask HN: I want to transition from marketing to product. Where do I go from here?
6 comments
Product Manager or Program Manager, depending on the org, probably makes the most sense. There is a lot of overlap with marketing. I see people go into that role from the development side from time to time--people who don't really enjoy coding or have grown tired of doing it as a job. More often, though, they come from disparate backgrounds.
If you emphasize your strengths on the customer side, and develop your capabilities on the product side, I think you'll be in good shape. It might take a while, and concerted effort, but most good things in life do. It sounds like the PM role puts you right where you want to be.
Study the lean startup materials (Eric Ries and Steve Blank). Learn about different agile methodologies, like Kanban (but don't become a zealot). Learn about continuous integration, configuration management, and get your feet wet using issue trackers and source code management environments (Github, Bitbucket). You don't have to get into the details, but at least understand how they work and what the state of the art is.
With your background, I'm sure you can find a role that would allow you to transition. It might not be right away. Just be clear about what you can bring to a position now, and where you would like to go in the future. If you're working with a good company, or good management, they will try to make it happen to the degree possible.
If you emphasize your strengths on the customer side, and develop your capabilities on the product side, I think you'll be in good shape. It might take a while, and concerted effort, but most good things in life do. It sounds like the PM role puts you right where you want to be.
Study the lean startup materials (Eric Ries and Steve Blank). Learn about different agile methodologies, like Kanban (but don't become a zealot). Learn about continuous integration, configuration management, and get your feet wet using issue trackers and source code management environments (Github, Bitbucket). You don't have to get into the details, but at least understand how they work and what the state of the art is.
With your background, I'm sure you can find a role that would allow you to transition. It might not be right away. Just be clear about what you can bring to a position now, and where you would like to go in the future. If you're working with a good company, or good management, they will try to make it happen to the degree possible.
Thanks for your advice. I do work the PM who uses Agile, but I'll have to learn more about it under the radar. I'm not sure my company would be too enthusiastic about it :)
Just as an anecdote regarding your statements of feeling inadequacy as a developer: When I was 16 it took me a year to complete the relatively simple w3schools tutorials, it was only once I started building things that my knowledge really started to grow. 5 years later and I work as a developer for a BAFTA award winning company building applications I really believe in. We learn differently under different conditions, try applying your knowledge on a project instead of just doing the tutorial.
I think that if you can master the art of Lean Customer Development/Understanding you'll be OK regardless of degree or coding ability. Might be an easier transition than to a coder/engineer, especially given background in marketing.
As an engineer pairing with business types is an easy find.
Those two need the third leg of customer zealot who talks to customers every day and yells at Biz and Tech about what the customers want. Many Lean books talk about this role. Many say that the Tech and Biz need to "get out of the office" and I agree. But after some time the company needs this Customer Expert to be the internal voice.
How you can prove that you are this person I don't know. I've heard the claim before but never seen the evidence. Evidence I think is things like recorded customer interviews, complete customer stories, built persona and things like this. A moderately successful team with you in that role may serve as a good demonstration too.
HTH
As an engineer pairing with business types is an easy find.
Those two need the third leg of customer zealot who talks to customers every day and yells at Biz and Tech about what the customers want. Many Lean books talk about this role. Many say that the Tech and Biz need to "get out of the office" and I agree. But after some time the company needs this Customer Expert to be the internal voice.
How you can prove that you are this person I don't know. I've heard the claim before but never seen the evidence. Evidence I think is things like recorded customer interviews, complete customer stories, built persona and things like this. A moderately successful team with you in that role may serve as a good demonstration too.
HTH
Sounds like Steve Blank's advice. Thanks for the heads up.
I'm surprised no-one has said this already, but whilst a technical background helps, being able to code is never part of a Product Manager's job.
You need to own the product & it's vision. This means understanding the market, competitors, and most importantly, what users actually want/need so that marketing can target them. In ANY job, you can ALWAYS be talking to users in your spare time.
And the specific answers to your questions: 1. I would try & find a PM role in a smaller startup, as your Marketing skills will also be seen as valuable (i.e. you will essentially do a bit of both roles, but this will give you the PM experience). 2. Definitely do not go back to study. Waste of time/money for something that a degree can't teach you anyway.
You need to own the product & it's vision. This means understanding the market, competitors, and most importantly, what users actually want/need so that marketing can target them. In ANY job, you can ALWAYS be talking to users in your spare time.
And the specific answers to your questions: 1. I would try & find a PM role in a smaller startup, as your Marketing skills will also be seen as valuable (i.e. you will essentially do a bit of both roles, but this will give you the PM experience). 2. Definitely do not go back to study. Waste of time/money for something that a degree can't teach you anyway.
Thanks. I think that's exactly what my short-term vision looks like, and I can't imagine going back to school anyway. But the main challenge for finding a PM role in a startup: "Requires minimum 3+ years managing a product"
Project manager would probably work for you just fine - have a look at the PMBOK for greater details on what that might entail.
Also it is worth considering that marketing is valuable to tech. Your post reminded me of this link, which is probably worth having a read: http://steveblank.com/2009/10/08/get-out-of-my-building/
If you want to persist in building tech, then the key is going to be for you to find a project of your own that you're really excited about so that you will be willing to stick with it through development of all the hard and annoying bits.
Also it is worth considering that marketing is valuable to tech. Your post reminded me of this link, which is probably worth having a read: http://steveblank.com/2009/10/08/get-out-of-my-building/
If you want to persist in building tech, then the key is going to be for you to find a project of your own that you're really excited about so that you will be willing to stick with it through development of all the hard and annoying bits.
Thanks. What is the difference between a Product and Project Manager, from what you know?
1. Don't do operations. That's going to be a total waste of time.
2. Don't do an MBA. Very little that you learn in an MBA will apply to product management. It can help with branding if you didn't go to a great university for undergrad though.
I made this exact transition a few years ago. The most important thing is to actually get practice designing and launching products (this is why an MBA will not be very helpful). This will give you a lot of confidence. It will also give others confidence that you can get the job done and show them that you are not just another person that is bored with their job in XYZ.
If you can work with product managers and engineers at your company on a short project that would be a start. If that's not possible, do it on your own. Either use the coding skills you have now to build and design a product, or work with other technical people. Hackathons are a great way to do this. Come up with an idea before the event, including mocks and detailed interactions. Programmers at hackathons are always looking for ideas. Many show up with no idea of what they want to build. If you do this part of the job for them, you will have a good experience.
Another approach is to force the issue at your current company. Here's a way to do this. Read the list of customer issues. Actually design solutions for those problems and show them to the product managers and engineers on the team. If you have good solutions they will start to listen to you. If you don't, ask them why and you will start to learn how they think about product decisions. This may not allow you to transition but you'll get experience that you don't have now.
At the same time, I'd recommend reading 'Cracking the PM Interview' to prepare for the interview process. If you're ultimately not able to transition in your current company you should leave and interview for PM positions elsewhere.
Feel free to email me (see my HN profile). Happy to jump on a Skype/Hangout call to chat more.
2. Don't do an MBA. Very little that you learn in an MBA will apply to product management. It can help with branding if you didn't go to a great university for undergrad though.
I made this exact transition a few years ago. The most important thing is to actually get practice designing and launching products (this is why an MBA will not be very helpful). This will give you a lot of confidence. It will also give others confidence that you can get the job done and show them that you are not just another person that is bored with their job in XYZ.
If you can work with product managers and engineers at your company on a short project that would be a start. If that's not possible, do it on your own. Either use the coding skills you have now to build and design a product, or work with other technical people. Hackathons are a great way to do this. Come up with an idea before the event, including mocks and detailed interactions. Programmers at hackathons are always looking for ideas. Many show up with no idea of what they want to build. If you do this part of the job for them, you will have a good experience.
Another approach is to force the issue at your current company. Here's a way to do this. Read the list of customer issues. Actually design solutions for those problems and show them to the product managers and engineers on the team. If you have good solutions they will start to listen to you. If you don't, ask them why and you will start to learn how they think about product decisions. This may not allow you to transition but you'll get experience that you don't have now.
At the same time, I'd recommend reading 'Cracking the PM Interview' to prepare for the interview process. If you're ultimately not able to transition in your current company you should leave and interview for PM positions elsewhere.
Feel free to email me (see my HN profile). Happy to jump on a Skype/Hangout call to chat more.
I've taken a couple courses (One Month Rails, Learn Python the Hard Way, and Coursera) to get a basic understanding of coding. I've learned I'm not a very fast learner in terms of coding and while passionate about it, and don't think I would do well as a software engineer (took me 6 months to get through half of the Learning Python the Hard way to give you an idea).
I've decided I want to get into product, but not sure how or what way. I love tech, and I want to contribute to building a product but have no technical (official) experience.
I have 2 questions:
1. What role/title should I be looking at to transition from PMM to product? Product Manager (but those require experience)? Operations? What's my best option here?
2. Is this too difficult a transition? Should I go to an MBA or back to an undergrad program?
I don't mean to come off as lazy– if it does sound that way, I apologise. I really want to pour my passion into products I love, but I just can't get that with routers and data centre software. I also feel that "marketing" in tech is somewhat redundant, since the product's features by definition are its marketing.