Ask HN: what would you do if you did not have to work?
With all the latest talk about basic income and the future of work (or lack thereof), I am genuinely interested what would HN readers do if they did not have to work.
16 comments
You're asking for plans, but I'd like to tell you what actually happened for me. As someone who did this in the past for far too long I've seen the darkness that emerges. I'd rate myself 2/10 in terms of willpower and 8/10 in terms of can-always-find-something-interesting. I probably handled it better than most people would (never ended up unshaven for weeks in a yellowed wifebeater), which to be honest frightens me whenever the topic of not-having-to-work comes up.
A bad day might have looked like this:
1. Get up at 11AM.
2. Eat for an hour while watching some Let's Play/V-Log or listening to some podcast.
3. Start reading blogs and learning which after an hour turns into reading bullshit that leaves my brain a day after.
4. Play guitar for two hours.
5. Play videogames for two hours. If lucky with people over skype (the tiniest amount of social interaction for the day)
6. Repeat the eat-watch-routine
7. Lift weights for an hour
8. Repeat the eat-watch-routine
9. Reddit/HN
10. Get bored by the general Reddit/HN and read the weird subreddits instead
11. Do what I call the horny-but-jerking-off-in-5-minutes-is-too-fast routine which I guess releases quite the potent mix of endorphines because I might end up sitting there for an hour with my pants open
12. If nothing good comes up I use my useless amount of private torrent tracker invites to find some porn I've never seen before (which becomes increasingly rare). If I'm too lazy to do that I just browse around and might come across some weird shit like Japanese women squirting milk on each others out of their ass (I guess that's pretty tame in comparison). Not that it matters, my mind is sometimes so numb, I could jerk off to a car accident
13. Lament for an hour where my life has gone while doing Yoga and stretching to bottle up some memories
14. Play a poker freeroll and lose
15. Refocus and write 20 lines of code for a project that I'll never finish in a hundred years
16. Throw a coin. Heads I shower, shave and promise myself tomorrow will be the day everything changes. Tails I contemplate suicide again.
17. Cry myself to sleep if bottled up memories come to light
At the end of the day I'm a better guitarist, one step closer to beeing jacked and one step closer to insanity. That must be the reason why some rockstars are complete lunatics.
A bad day might have looked like this:
1. Get up at 11AM.
2. Eat for an hour while watching some Let's Play/V-Log or listening to some podcast.
3. Start reading blogs and learning which after an hour turns into reading bullshit that leaves my brain a day after.
4. Play guitar for two hours.
5. Play videogames for two hours. If lucky with people over skype (the tiniest amount of social interaction for the day)
6. Repeat the eat-watch-routine
7. Lift weights for an hour
8. Repeat the eat-watch-routine
9. Reddit/HN
10. Get bored by the general Reddit/HN and read the weird subreddits instead
11. Do what I call the horny-but-jerking-off-in-5-minutes-is-too-fast routine which I guess releases quite the potent mix of endorphines because I might end up sitting there for an hour with my pants open
12. If nothing good comes up I use my useless amount of private torrent tracker invites to find some porn I've never seen before (which becomes increasingly rare). If I'm too lazy to do that I just browse around and might come across some weird shit like Japanese women squirting milk on each others out of their ass (I guess that's pretty tame in comparison). Not that it matters, my mind is sometimes so numb, I could jerk off to a car accident
13. Lament for an hour where my life has gone while doing Yoga and stretching to bottle up some memories
14. Play a poker freeroll and lose
15. Refocus and write 20 lines of code for a project that I'll never finish in a hundred years
16. Throw a coin. Heads I shower, shave and promise myself tomorrow will be the day everything changes. Tails I contemplate suicide again.
17. Cry myself to sleep if bottled up memories come to light
At the end of the day I'm a better guitarist, one step closer to beeing jacked and one step closer to insanity. That must be the reason why some rockstars are complete lunatics.
What was your life situation then? Were you independently wealthy or just basic income (as the author suggests)?
Were you looking forward to something? How did you break the circle?
Were you looking forward to something? How did you break the circle?
I guess I was what Japanese people call Hikkikomori (I'm not Japanese though). Pretty much a combination of my parents providing for me and living without any luxuries whatsoever (guitar was borrowed, computer is over 8 years old, no other possessions of value) that made it possible.
What did I do? To be honest, nothing. The only difference now is that I have a job and subtract those hours and I can fill the day with just the more meaningful pastimes on that list. No time left to squander.
I'm not much happier, but of course now I'm an accepted part of society, or is it rather that I'm now indifferent to society?
I was looking forward to things, but the things further away in the future felt so far away (and some still do) that procrastination build a wall around them. I always reached for immediate pleasure. Some of those pleasures are worth something (playing guitar, riding a bike, or as someone commented below just beeing at the beach), but of course worthless to society.
The more distant things I was looking forward to? Finding something I really enjoy doing for more than just a few hours, a real passion. Someone to share my time with. Love.
But as society dictates that you need to provide for yourself those things are unreachable as they either are impossible to reach if you commit to having a job due to having no time, or they are unreachable because you provide of no worth for a partner, or society in general. It even strained friendships even though it didn't affect those "friends" in any way I can imagine.
Heck, that's why its even a bit funny to me because now I'm "okay" in every way, but I'm still the same person. A women might fall in love with me, people accept my, my family accepts me, but the core of my personality is still the same. And because that is the truth I might end up the same if I ever had no job (or wouldn't need one). I guess getting rich (which won't happen but who knows) would be my downfall.
A friend who stayed in touch with me despite all this always said I had so much time to do whatever I wanted, yet I never done anything of value. And my answer to this is, time doesn't really matter. Willpower, passion, sacrifice, those things push you forward. The people who achieve the most don't have 32 hour days. They don't need them because they don't waste a minute.
What did I do? To be honest, nothing. The only difference now is that I have a job and subtract those hours and I can fill the day with just the more meaningful pastimes on that list. No time left to squander.
I'm not much happier, but of course now I'm an accepted part of society, or is it rather that I'm now indifferent to society?
I was looking forward to things, but the things further away in the future felt so far away (and some still do) that procrastination build a wall around them. I always reached for immediate pleasure. Some of those pleasures are worth something (playing guitar, riding a bike, or as someone commented below just beeing at the beach), but of course worthless to society.
The more distant things I was looking forward to? Finding something I really enjoy doing for more than just a few hours, a real passion. Someone to share my time with. Love.
But as society dictates that you need to provide for yourself those things are unreachable as they either are impossible to reach if you commit to having a job due to having no time, or they are unreachable because you provide of no worth for a partner, or society in general. It even strained friendships even though it didn't affect those "friends" in any way I can imagine.
Heck, that's why its even a bit funny to me because now I'm "okay" in every way, but I'm still the same person. A women might fall in love with me, people accept my, my family accepts me, but the core of my personality is still the same. And because that is the truth I might end up the same if I ever had no job (or wouldn't need one). I guess getting rich (which won't happen but who knows) would be my downfall.
A friend who stayed in touch with me despite all this always said I had so much time to do whatever I wanted, yet I never done anything of value. And my answer to this is, time doesn't really matter. Willpower, passion, sacrifice, those things push you forward. The people who achieve the most don't have 32 hour days. They don't need them because they don't waste a minute.
I am almost sure that you don't have wife or kids. If you did, most of the stuff you listed will become redundant to you. I hear you though. Been there (brief period) while I was single.
It's kind of a vicious circle. I wouldn't even play videogames (something I enjoy very much) if I had a girlfriend because I would value the relationship and time spend far more.
But at the same time it was pretty much impossible to find a partner while living such a life. No one finds you attractive. Maybe good enough for one night, but not for a relationship.
People say you shouldn't rely on other people to provide you happiness. But a relationship would have added so so much to my life.
But at the same time it was pretty much impossible to find a partner while living such a life. No one finds you attractive. Maybe good enough for one night, but not for a relationship.
People say you shouldn't rely on other people to provide you happiness. But a relationship would have added so so much to my life.
I already try to do these things but not with complete freedom because I have to make money and that takes my time. But if I had complete independence, then in order:
1. Spend time with my family and friends as much as I can.
2. Travel around the world (with family/friends again)
3. Teach for free whatever I can.
4. Get really good at few of the things: Guitar, Martial Arts, handyman at my house etc.
1. Spend time with my family and friends as much as I can.
2. Travel around the world (with family/friends again)
3. Teach for free whatever I can.
4. Get really good at few of the things: Guitar, Martial Arts, handyman at my house etc.
Go back to university and study more. I would probably start with arts - literature, music and move towards psychology, philosophy, medicine, economics and if time permitted, some languages.
I could happily spend my days learning.
I had a couple of years like this after selling a business (for non-crazy money) coupled with stumbling onto an accidental Adsense scenario where I had $2-10k coming in monthly for zero work. In short, I just alternated between goofing off and being bummed out.
Once that faucet dried up after a Google reranking I started working again (still for myself), then got married, had kids, etc. Now I always have tons to do, am upbeat 99% of the time, and doing better than ever! I've learnt working and making money in exchange for what I do is a core part of what keeps me happy and sane.
If a basic income were available and high enough in my 20s, I'd have stayed on it, probably remained single forever, and lived a hikikomori-esque lifestyle.. which is why I remain a little skeptical of some basic income ideas despite appreciating the idea. Would all people be like me? No. But I think a higher basic income for everyone who holds down a job is a far better idea and we already have something mildly like that in the UK.
Once that faucet dried up after a Google reranking I started working again (still for myself), then got married, had kids, etc. Now I always have tons to do, am upbeat 99% of the time, and doing better than ever! I've learnt working and making money in exchange for what I do is a core part of what keeps me happy and sane.
If a basic income were available and high enough in my 20s, I'd have stayed on it, probably remained single forever, and lived a hikikomori-esque lifestyle.. which is why I remain a little skeptical of some basic income ideas despite appreciating the idea. Would all people be like me? No. But I think a higher basic income for everyone who holds down a job is a far better idea and we already have something mildly like that in the UK.
As someone who plans to stop working for income in the next 5 to 10 years, I've put some thought into it.
1) Volunteer. This is the only thing in my list that I know I will do for certain. I don't want to become a sloth, and doing so would seem like a crime against humanity when I have so much to offer. I genuinely like helping people. It's also a great way to meet interesting people. While it's not really a reason, I also find that I'm more of a producer than a consumer.
2) Travel. Nothing too extravagant. I'll still be watching my penny bank so I don't cause myself to have to go back to work for an income.
3) Backpacking. It's important to me to be able to connect with nature sometimes.
4) Write two novels that I already have ideas for.
5) Write essays on the human condition.
1) Volunteer. This is the only thing in my list that I know I will do for certain. I don't want to become a sloth, and doing so would seem like a crime against humanity when I have so much to offer. I genuinely like helping people. It's also a great way to meet interesting people. While it's not really a reason, I also find that I'm more of a producer than a consumer.
2) Travel. Nothing too extravagant. I'll still be watching my penny bank so I don't cause myself to have to go back to work for an income.
3) Backpacking. It's important to me to be able to connect with nature sometimes.
4) Write two novels that I already have ideas for.
5) Write essays on the human condition.
That sounds like a great combination. I've found that volunteering and traveling are wonderful in themselves, but also 'unlock' the ability to write and produce things I want to produce, rather than sit around and do nothing (and eventually feel bad about it).
I'll be embarking for something similar, but for about a year.
I wish you all the best, and would love to hear what you have to say about humanity.
I'll be embarking for something similar, but for about a year.
I wish you all the best, and would love to hear what you have to say about humanity.
Great question and it's one that is driving my current plans for 2014 "to wake up and do what I want to do".
I would spend a lot more time with my wife and daughter even in the small things such as taking my girl to school and picking her up.
I would spend more time being aware, walking and meditating.
I would then spend a huge chunk of time giving somehow. I have a few projects me and my wife are starting in this area such as running a free course for new parents on how to resuscitate babies, top 5 risks for new borns etc
And travel!
I would spend a lot more time with my wife and daughter even in the small things such as taking my girl to school and picking her up.
I would spend more time being aware, walking and meditating.
I would then spend a huge chunk of time giving somehow. I have a few projects me and my wife are starting in this area such as running a free course for new parents on how to resuscitate babies, top 5 risks for new borns etc
And travel!
I'm in that situation already and if you had asked me this question before, I would have said something along the lines of travel, have fun, or some other variation thereof. The reality is while I did do those things for awhile, what I ended up doing was went back to "work". By work I mean grinding on other things of interest to me.
I can't speak for others but its incredibly tough for me to not proactively work on something I enjoy, especially once you have develop the habit of getting use to working a lot.
I can't speak for others but its incredibly tough for me to not proactively work on something I enjoy, especially once you have develop the habit of getting use to working a lot.
I'd probably sit around on the Internet most of the day.
If I didn't have to work because of money concerns I'd probably become a hobbyist fishing guide, which can still be work in some sense.
If I didn't have to work because of a basic income guarantee I'd probably still work. It would feel different to me, plus a basic income guarantee I doubt will be financial boon in a sense that you could do something other than working.
If I didn't have to work because of a basic income guarantee I'd probably still work. It would feel different to me, plus a basic income guarantee I doubt will be financial boon in a sense that you could do something other than working.
I would just bike around, lay at the beach, and eat great food. And I would not have a care in the world. Serious answer. That would satisfy me.
A lot of developers are so because of the need to fix problems, that and a flair for logical mathematics. Sitting on a beach sounds nice but I think it would only be a matter of time before members of this community try to come up with a solution to sitting on the beach.
I think workers work. The satisfaction is in achievement of worth, or at least in the endeavor.
I think workers work. The satisfaction is in achievement of worth, or at least in the endeavor.
If I sat on a beach, I'd have to take a computer with me...
I would work. But not for someone else, and perhaps not for any clear goal or achievement. I would work patiently and methodically on long-term projects that could only be possible with that amount of leisure time.
Travel. And work on my own side projects ( I guess you can't call them side projects any more, can you). Not for immediate gains, but for the long term goal of building a good product.
Whitewater kayaking, lots of it. Learn to surf. Cook nice stuff every day.
There are many things I enjoy more than coding, but coding is sometimes fun, and does pay the bills.
There are many things I enjoy more than coding, but coding is sometimes fun, and does pay the bills.
I would go on long road trips through interesting places. But I would still create software along the way.
Work for myself, on things I'm interested in. Likely nonprofit work in the education space.