Our most successful game is also our least profitable(gamasutra.com)
gamasutra.com
Our most successful game is also our least profitable
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/YannSeznec/20130820/198453/Gentlemen_Or_how_our_most_successful_game_is_also_our_least_profitable.php
13 comments
By people who would've never bought it in China, either because they can't (no access to Play Store) or won't (too little money to pay for "apps").
I don't think the money is the issue though, if they already had enough of it to buy a tablet in the first place.
You are wrong. Suppose you are payed $350/month. Larger part of that money are gone spent for apartments and food. Still people do purchase $350 tablets because it's entertainment they can afford (they buy it for few years and don't change it to newer model until the one they have is broken/no longer fast enough for new software). Now would you like to buy movie and games for $5 or you will download them by clicking links on local forum thread?
It's hard for me to picture their point of view since I've had the pleasure to grow up in a safe western welfare county, so I guess you're right.
That doesn't make it ok.
This argument doesn't make any sense. They cannot buy it.
The smart thing to do would be to treat that as free advertising, and to milk the outrage to get good PR in markets that can buy it.
Also, try going freemium, with ads.
I.e. you can't really control what other people do, but you can accept reality and look for a way to turn it to your advantage.
The smart thing to do would be to treat that as free advertising, and to milk the outrage to get good PR in markets that can buy it.
Also, try going freemium, with ads.
I.e. you can't really control what other people do, but you can accept reality and look for a way to turn it to your advantage.
"OK" in what sense? It makes it "OK" in not feeling bad for the developer or that they have "lost" anywhere close to 50,000 x $5.
Nor does being "not OK" make it actually harmful.
Another reason not to make games. For the first time we have the ability to quantify the sales generated by the "free advertising" of piracy, and it doesn't amount to any real sales.
as both a professional and independent game developer, i take issue with this statement for a couple reasons.
1) this is a life-cycle thing. the game has only been released for 3 weeks and has no marketing budget (i assume since it's only sold a couple hundred copies). that means, it's still too early to tell if the piracy correctly acts as "free advertising" or not. grassroots advocacy is NOT overnight.
2) piracy has been proven over and over again NOT to lead to lost sales by objective measurements. anecdote? sure! everyone is getting completely screwed when you take in anecdote. for examples, just google "game piracy lost sales" and read things from industry news sites (techdirt, for example) to developers (notch as another example) on why that statement is a load of crap. or, alternatively, you can just check this research paper outlaying the data and methods (pdf warning!): http://www.mit.edu/~ke23793/papers/Drahchenetal_paperID16.pd...
basically, we, as a community should simply wait another 5 weeks (october 1st, maybe?), then ask the developer for a post mortem to see if they've only made another 350 sales or so. and when they say "whoa! we've exploded!", we can say "but i thought piracy stole all your sales."
m3mnoch.
1) this is a life-cycle thing. the game has only been released for 3 weeks and has no marketing budget (i assume since it's only sold a couple hundred copies). that means, it's still too early to tell if the piracy correctly acts as "free advertising" or not. grassroots advocacy is NOT overnight.
2) piracy has been proven over and over again NOT to lead to lost sales by objective measurements. anecdote? sure! everyone is getting completely screwed when you take in anecdote. for examples, just google "game piracy lost sales" and read things from industry news sites (techdirt, for example) to developers (notch as another example) on why that statement is a load of crap. or, alternatively, you can just check this research paper outlaying the data and methods (pdf warning!): http://www.mit.edu/~ke23793/papers/Drahchenetal_paperID16.pd...
basically, we, as a community should simply wait another 5 weeks (october 1st, maybe?), then ask the developer for a post mortem to see if they've only made another 350 sales or so. and when they say "whoa! we've exploded!", we can say "but i thought piracy stole all your sales."
m3mnoch.
You meant to say, another reason to only make free games.
Someone made a game expecting it to be monetizable on the basis of selling and retaining a monopoly on "copies"?
lol. Except for the outrage that they expect to control what I can or cannot do with my computer and its data. Seems they made a poor choice for them.
lol. Except for the outrage that they expect to control what I can or cannot do with my computer and its data. Seems they made a poor choice for them.
Do you feel the same about say, the NSA snooping your data? After all, you never lost access to your data, they just made a meaningless copy of it.
Some people will pirate anything just because it's available
So they wouldn't have bought it anyway? Whats the fuss about then?
So they wouldn't have bought it anyway? Whats the fuss about then?
What fuss are you referring to? This is the original blog post:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/YannSeznec/20130820/198453/Ge...
It's one studio sharing their experience with selling a game on Andriod.
Choice quote: "We have a lot to learn
This was our first Android release. We probably could have done more to avoid the massive piracy of our game - or, even better, convert pirate users into paid users. I think that Android apps are definitely going to get pirated no matter what...I can only dimly imagine the level of piracy that a truly successful paid app has. However if we had anticipated this situation we probably would have included some sort of in app purchase, perhaps to unlock extra levels or game modes. At least then the pirates would have the opportunity to pay us a little something if they were enjoying it so much - the main problem is that most of these pirates probably exist in a commercial ecosystem where the Google Play store does not even exist, and it doesn’t occur to them to buy any games from there at all."
It's one studio sharing their experience with selling a game on Andriod.
Choice quote: "We have a lot to learn
This was our first Android release. We probably could have done more to avoid the massive piracy of our game - or, even better, convert pirate users into paid users. I think that Android apps are definitely going to get pirated no matter what...I can only dimly imagine the level of piracy that a truly successful paid app has. However if we had anticipated this situation we probably would have included some sort of in app purchase, perhaps to unlock extra levels or game modes. At least then the pirates would have the opportunity to pay us a little something if they were enjoying it so much - the main problem is that most of these pirates probably exist in a commercial ecosystem where the Google Play store does not even exist, and it doesn’t occur to them to buy any games from there at all."
Are you kidding me?
A pirated copy isn't a lost sale.
Software/music/movie pirates usually fall into very few categories:
* never willing to pay for it
* willing to pay, not willing to put up with current and known barriers
The first category should never be assumed to be a lost sale, however the second could be assumed a lost sale.
Software/music/movie pirates usually fall into very few categories:
* never willing to pay for it
* willing to pay, not willing to put up with current and known barriers
The first category should never be assumed to be a lost sale, however the second could be assumed a lost sale.
There is third category
* Cheapos. Won't pay for it unless it is the only way to get something that they like. (it's hard to find pirated copies, the risk (legal, malware etc) is high etc)
* Cheapos. Won't pay for it unless it is the only way to get something that they like. (it's hard to find pirated copies, the risk (legal, malware etc) is high etc)
Piracy is easy on Android, and harder on iOS, and the rate of piracy is much greater on Android.
The simple explanation would be that Android users pirate because piracy is trivial. Other more nuanced explanations may be that Android users are cheapskates, or hold strong beliefs against paying for software. I'd like to be charitable and assume it's just because downloading APKs is easy.
The simple explanation would be that Android users pirate because piracy is trivial. Other more nuanced explanations may be that Android users are cheapskates, or hold strong beliefs against paying for software. I'd like to be charitable and assume it's just because downloading APKs is easy.
You forgot the category of willing and able to pay for it, but steal it because they can. That is probably 80% of them. Ditto for movies/music.
If they're not customers, they don't matter. Whether they pirate your game or not, you're going to make the exact same amount of money from them - $0.
Some of them would have bought it. I know this is super tough but if I go out to a street corner and hand out free hot dogs the guy selling hot dogs next to me is going to lose business.
Oh, that's a different point. First, I'm not sure you can stop piracy. 2dboy tried releasing games with DRM and without DRM and saw the same rate of piracy with each. Then even if you could stop piracy, it would barely make a difference to revenue. They calculated that they could make 1 sale out of every 1,000 pirates. http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/ And that's for a really good indie game like World of Goo. One thing I don't see anyone mentioning here is whether "Gentlemen!" is any good.
Not at all, people associate quality with price -- especially when it comes to food.
He can advertise on being a reputable and established source of high-quality food, while you cannot do such a thing without lying.
He can advertise on being a reputable and established source of high-quality food, while you cannot do such a thing without lying.
Of course. But at the same time, your free hot dogs are going to attract a ton of people that wouldn't have otherwise come.
If you hand out free hot dogs, you might go through five thousand in a day. If you weren't there, the guy selling hot dogs might sell five hundred. He certainly might sell less when you're around than when you're not, but you absolutely cannot point to the 5,000 people who took your free dogs and assume that they are all lost sales. The quantity of people who took your free dogs is completely irrelevant. All that matters is the delta between the seller's sales with and without you, which is unrelated to the number of people who take the free option.
If you hand out free hot dogs, you might go through five thousand in a day. If you weren't there, the guy selling hot dogs might sell five hundred. He certainly might sell less when you're around than when you're not, but you absolutely cannot point to the 5,000 people who took your free dogs and assume that they are all lost sales. The quantity of people who took your free dogs is completely irrelevant. All that matters is the delta between the seller's sales with and without you, which is unrelated to the number of people who take the free option.
No one knows how many of the users would have been customers if the app hadn't been available through back channels.
It's tough to convince someone to buy the product that you offer when someone else is offering it for free.
It's tough to convince someone to buy the product that you offer when someone else is offering it for free.
They matter if they pass on good word of mouth.
Don't know about the parent, but I'm definitely not kidding.
If they weren't going to purchase the product anyway, how is it a loss? If anything, it's additional word-of-mouth advertising at no cost.
If they weren't going to purchase the product anyway, how is it a loss? If anything, it's additional word-of-mouth advertising at no cost.
Why would he be kidding? A lot of people just amass collections of whatever pirated stuff they can get their hands on. They would not have purchased the items otherwise. They have no influence on the creator's income. The question of why we should care about them is entirely legitimate.
It's a bit light on details. I know from personal pirating that the vast majority of things I downloaded I never touched or only opened once. Especially as a teen, with slow modems and BBSes, it was more of a status/fun thing to hoard as much as you could get.
I'd like to know if they have telemetrics installed that show how many game sessions are being played on unique installs. The article also admits it's titled Gentlemen, which is a hit song. So maybe some hacked up version of Google Play provides universal search, this gets to the top, downloaded, opened, then closed and forgotten about as the user tries to figure out why the song didn't start...
I'd like to know if they have telemetrics installed that show how many game sessions are being played on unique installs. The article also admits it's titled Gentlemen, which is a hit song. So maybe some hacked up version of Google Play provides universal search, this gets to the top, downloaded, opened, then closed and forgotten about as the user tries to figure out why the song didn't start...
The real Gamasutra article, written by the developers, points out the unusual levels of engagement of their pirates. Even if they got it by accident, they still like it at least.
This is blogospam. The Gamasutra article it references (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/YannSeznec/20130820/198453/Ge...) written by the actual developer involved, is much better. He mentions that because they used Unity, supporting Android in addition to iOS meant an extra few days of work, so even lackluster Android sales can easily get to the break even point. They also aren't too upset with the situation:
"Many people assumed that we were really upset about this statistic. In retrospect, talking about the piracy numbers on twitter probably implies that we were unhappy, but in reality the number of pirates just confirmed to us that we made a game that people love to play! The people who are pirating our game are also playing a surprising amount, with really great engagement - these are no casual pirates just downloading because they can. So this confirmed to us that our game design is solid, and that we’ve made a super fun game that people enjoy. To be honest, that is really great. It’s unlikely that any of these pirates would have bought the game anyway, so we’re just glad that people are playing. Android makes piracy very easy, and thanks to that Gentlemen! is being played by more people around the world than all of our previous games combined."
And understanding of the problem that how would Chinese people pay for it anyway?
"This was our first Android release. We probably could have done more to avoid the massive piracy of our game - or, even better, convert pirate users into paid users. I think that Android apps are definitely going to get pirated no matter what...I can only dimly imagine the level of piracy that a truly successful paid app has. However if we had anticipated this situation we probably would have included some sort of in app purchase, perhaps to unlock extra levels or game modes. At least then the pirates would have the opportunity to pay us a little something if they were enjoying it so much - the main problem is that most of these pirates probably exist in a commercial ecosystem where the Google Play store does not even exist, and it doesn’t occur to them to buy any games from there at all."
"Many people assumed that we were really upset about this statistic. In retrospect, talking about the piracy numbers on twitter probably implies that we were unhappy, but in reality the number of pirates just confirmed to us that we made a game that people love to play! The people who are pirating our game are also playing a surprising amount, with really great engagement - these are no casual pirates just downloading because they can. So this confirmed to us that our game design is solid, and that we’ve made a super fun game that people enjoy. To be honest, that is really great. It’s unlikely that any of these pirates would have bought the game anyway, so we’re just glad that people are playing. Android makes piracy very easy, and thanks to that Gentlemen! is being played by more people around the world than all of our previous games combined."
And understanding of the problem that how would Chinese people pay for it anyway?
"This was our first Android release. We probably could have done more to avoid the massive piracy of our game - or, even better, convert pirate users into paid users. I think that Android apps are definitely going to get pirated no matter what...I can only dimly imagine the level of piracy that a truly successful paid app has. However if we had anticipated this situation we probably would have included some sort of in app purchase, perhaps to unlock extra levels or game modes. At least then the pirates would have the opportunity to pay us a little something if they were enjoying it so much - the main problem is that most of these pirates probably exist in a commercial ecosystem where the Google Play store does not even exist, and it doesn’t occur to them to buy any games from there at all."
If you stop making games, pirates will have nothing to pirate except the 40 billion games that came out before yours, and nothing of value will have been lost.
The Gamasutra article this blogspams is much more interesting:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/YannSeznec/20130820/198453/Ge...
Target for sales was 2,000:
So far we have sold 1,114 copies on iPad, and 144 copies on Android.
Excellent reviews:
8/10 on Edge, 4.5 stars on Touch Arcade, and a 9/10 Gold Award on PocketGamer.
Android statistics:
144 copies sold, 50,030 copies pirated
Built with Unity, Android version only took 2 days of additional work so still worth it.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/YannSeznec/20130820/198453/Ge...
Target for sales was 2,000:
So far we have sold 1,114 copies on iPad, and 144 copies on Android.
Excellent reviews:
8/10 on Edge, 4.5 stars on Touch Arcade, and a 9/10 Gold Award on PocketGamer.
Android statistics:
144 copies sold, 50,030 copies pirated
Built with Unity, Android version only took 2 days of additional work so still worth it.
So, because it had the same name of a popular PSY song, it was near-impossible to find in searches, and sold 114 copies.
But let's not focus on the fact that it was marketed poorly, nobody reviewed it on any game blogs, or the fact that there actually _is_ a market for this game (remember that Gabe Newell said that "Pirates are just Underserved Customers"). No. Let's focus on how 50,000 chinese and russian pirates, who can't use the Apple App Store, have somehow destroyed this developer.
How about the truth? A poorly-marketed and budgeted game with a forgettable name found an untapped/blue-ocean market in China and Russia. Kotaku probably can't get as many clicks with that tagline, though.
But let's not focus on the fact that it was marketed poorly, nobody reviewed it on any game blogs, or the fact that there actually _is_ a market for this game (remember that Gabe Newell said that "Pirates are just Underserved Customers"). No. Let's focus on how 50,000 chinese and russian pirates, who can't use the Apple App Store, have somehow destroyed this developer.
How about the truth? A poorly-marketed and budgeted game with a forgettable name found an untapped/blue-ocean market in China and Russia. Kotaku probably can't get as many clicks with that tagline, though.
They are equating critical praise with success instead of sales. I think that's pretty unusual, and I wonder why they would say that it is a success.
This is why I chose to make my game 100% login based; no access without a connection and an authentication.
Piracy is simply too rampant.
Piracy is simply too rampant.
I bet it doesn't feel great for the people who don't have a connection available and are getting punished because of other people's actions.
Yep.
I intend to sell this game - no ads - and provide regular updates and improvements, along with "in-app purchases" (It's going to be a browser/FireFoxOS game). I have no desire to have this work leeched, and I want the user community to feel comfortable knowing that they are all generally people who pay for things rather than copying them without recompense.
I intend to sell this game - no ads - and provide regular updates and improvements, along with "in-app purchases" (It's going to be a browser/FireFoxOS game). I have no desire to have this work leeched, and I want the user community to feel comfortable knowing that they are all generally people who pay for things rather than copying them without recompense.
How many more sales would you get if the price were $1 or $2, instead of $5? That's quite a leap to make.
I wouldn't even have bothered to pirate it :P They're lucky they got 50k people to look at it imo. This method of playing went out... um... shit... with um... Crossfire? Hungry Hungry Hippos?