Tumblr responds to complaints about censorship(staff.tumblr.com)
staff.tumblr.com
Tumblr responds to complaints about censorship
http://staff.tumblr.com/post/55906556378/all-weve-heard-from-a-bunch-of-you-who-are
11 comments
The article says that being blocked from searches and search engines was a bug:
> As some of you have pointed out, disabling Safe Mode still wasn’t allowing search results from all blogs to appear. This has been fixed.
> If your blog contains anything too sexy for the average workplace, simply check "Flag this blog as NSFW" so people in Safe Mode can avoid it. Your blog will still be promoted in third-party search engines.
> As some of you have pointed out, disabling Safe Mode still wasn’t allowing search results from all blogs to appear. This has been fixed.
> If your blog contains anything too sexy for the average workplace, simply check "Flag this blog as NSFW" so people in Safe Mode can avoid it. Your blog will still be promoted in third-party search engines.
Actually I admit to not knowing much about the topic, but from the original dailydot article, it seems there are 2 levels of flagging involved - NSFW and Adult. The Adult category is the one that's been completely blackholed. This article seems to be deliberately trying to confuse the two types.
I haven't been keeping up with this (I don't use Tumblr myself) so I can't really give an educated opinion one way or the other.
Searching for NSFW tags is working fine now on the web app. It wasn't this morning. That was the bug they fixed.
Unless I misunderstood, the article other I read said there was no way to search for the NSFW tumblrs (or however you'd say it) _within_ tumblr. That would be a much bigger deal than not being able to find it from google. If you can't find it within, that means it's nearly impossible to find it in the future.
Do we know that a significant number of non-spam NSFW blogs were being flagged as "Adult" by Tumblr, or is it possible that people were enabling this flag themselves without realizing its implications?
While I don't really follow Tumblr enough to know for sure, it's not that hard to turn up blogs that aren't advertising anything, appear to be incredibly popular, and have been blocked from search. (For example http://damn-hot-gay-porn.tumblr.com/ - NSFW, not advertising anything that I can see, first Google result for "tumblr gay porn" and a huge number of reblogs, now completely blocked by robots.txt. Along with, apparently, most of the equally-unspammy blogs that have reblogged their stuff.)
Edit: Salon.com did a feature on the best porn Tumblrs: http://www.salon.com/2013/05/26/the_best_of_tumblr_porn/ It appears a large proportion of the Tumblrs featured there have also been marked as adult and removed from Google search.
Edit 2: I think they've basically marked all porn-heavy blogs as adult and forcibly delisted them from search, exactly like they originally said they were going to do and regardless of how spammy they are.
Edit: Salon.com did a feature on the best porn Tumblrs: http://www.salon.com/2013/05/26/the_best_of_tumblr_porn/ It appears a large proportion of the Tumblrs featured there have also been marked as adult and removed from Google search.
Edit 2: I think they've basically marked all porn-heavy blogs as adult and forcibly delisted them from search, exactly like they originally said they were going to do and regardless of how spammy they are.
They admit to having a Adult flag which removes the blog from all site listings and from google searches. This effectively kills the blog.
So what? nobody owes you a free search engine listing.
So what? nobody owes you a free search engine listing.
What does "owing" have to do with anything?
Microsoft doesn't "owe" you a start bar. If your mother complained about it missing in the initial Windows 8 release would you tell her "So what? nobody owes you a start bar."?
Would you tell people in the 80s "So what? nobody owes you classic Coca-Cola."?
Microsoft doesn't "owe" you a start bar. If your mother complained about it missing in the initial Windows 8 release would you tell her "So what? nobody owes you a start bar."?
Would you tell people in the 80s "So what? nobody owes you classic Coca-Cola."?
(Your profile lists no contact info, so saying this here instead of in DM:) I love this comment and, by extension, I love you, JLGreco.
If your mother complained about it missing in the initial Windows 8 release would you tell her "So what? nobody owes you a start bar."?
Yes...as a matter of fact that's one reason I have not bothered to upgrade from Windows 7.
Would you tell people in the 80s "So what? nobody owes you classic Coca-Cola."?
I'm petty sure I did tell people that. I'm a big believer in voting with your wallet. Of course, your examples involve things that people pay for, whereas setting up a Tumblr page is free (thus giving you even less of a claim on Yahoo's actions.)
Yes...as a matter of fact that's one reason I have not bothered to upgrade from Windows 7.
Would you tell people in the 80s "So what? nobody owes you classic Coca-Cola."?
I'm petty sure I did tell people that. I'm a big believer in voting with your wallet. Of course, your examples involve things that people pay for, whereas setting up a Tumblr page is free (thus giving you even less of a claim on Yahoo's actions.)
So you would have people vote with their wallets, just so long as they don't also complain while doing it?
I don't think you would really tell your mother that. Maybe you would tell your mother to stick with Windows 7 after trying out Windows 8 in the store, but I do not believe for one second that you would say anything to the effect of "Microsoft doesn't owe you that" in response to her reacting to the change.
Vote with your wallets and complain. Why the hell not?
> "Of course, your examples involve things that people pay for"
Admittedly yes, in the Windows 8 case (outside of trying it out in the store). Not so in the New Coke case. Nobody bought a lifetime subscription of Coke. People were upset because they could no longer buy the old Coke, not because they were duped into buying New Coke (well, not for more than a few cents anyway).
Nobody was owed the ability to buy classic Coke. Complain they did though, and can you really fault them for that? Really?
I don't think you would really tell your mother that. Maybe you would tell your mother to stick with Windows 7 after trying out Windows 8 in the store, but I do not believe for one second that you would say anything to the effect of "Microsoft doesn't owe you that" in response to her reacting to the change.
Vote with your wallets and complain. Why the hell not?
> "Of course, your examples involve things that people pay for"
Admittedly yes, in the Windows 8 case (outside of trying it out in the store). Not so in the New Coke case. Nobody bought a lifetime subscription of Coke. People were upset because they could no longer buy the old Coke, not because they were duped into buying New Coke (well, not for more than a few cents anyway).
Nobody was owed the ability to buy classic Coke. Complain they did though, and can you really fault them for that? Really?
I do not believe for one second that you would say anything to the effect of "Microsoft doesn't owe you that" in response to her reacting to the change
Why not? My mother's no idiot; she may not understand the intricacies of her computer works but she doesn't expect Microsoft to automatically accommodate her tastes any more than she expects Volvo to keep making her favorite model from the 80s. If anything she helped instill this attitude in me when I expressed disappointment about my favorite kids TV shows going away. As a consumer I don't expect producers to be sentimental about their offerings; if I think some particular change is foolish then I argue that on economic grounds (but if it turns out to be the profitable thing to do, then I have to accept I was wrong).
I mean, there are certainly choices I'd like corporations to make - I'm into synthesizers, for example, and I really wish that Roland corporation would start issuing TB-303s again, especially now that their competitors have chosen to resissue some of their classic designs at affordable prices. But after analyzing the numbers and potential profit margins, I'm 99% certain that it's Not Going To Happen no matter how much I and my fellow synth geeks beg for it. It's not worth the risk involved, and they don't owe me such a product. (On the other hand, it would make good economic sesnse for them to reissue certain classic drum machines...)
Not so in the New Coke case. Nobody bought a lifetime subscription of Coke.
They bought bottles and cans of Coke, and when they discovered that they didn't like the taste of New Coke I presume the they stopped purchasing it. I guarantee that Coke executives paid a great deal more to consumers' behavior than whatever it was they said.
Why not? My mother's no idiot; she may not understand the intricacies of her computer works but she doesn't expect Microsoft to automatically accommodate her tastes any more than she expects Volvo to keep making her favorite model from the 80s. If anything she helped instill this attitude in me when I expressed disappointment about my favorite kids TV shows going away. As a consumer I don't expect producers to be sentimental about their offerings; if I think some particular change is foolish then I argue that on economic grounds (but if it turns out to be the profitable thing to do, then I have to accept I was wrong).
I mean, there are certainly choices I'd like corporations to make - I'm into synthesizers, for example, and I really wish that Roland corporation would start issuing TB-303s again, especially now that their competitors have chosen to resissue some of their classic designs at affordable prices. But after analyzing the numbers and potential profit margins, I'm 99% certain that it's Not Going To Happen no matter how much I and my fellow synth geeks beg for it. It's not worth the risk involved, and they don't owe me such a product. (On the other hand, it would make good economic sesnse for them to reissue certain classic drum machines...)
Not so in the New Coke case. Nobody bought a lifetime subscription of Coke.
They bought bottles and cans of Coke, and when they discovered that they didn't like the taste of New Coke I presume the they stopped purchasing it. I guarantee that Coke executives paid a great deal more to consumers' behavior than whatever it was they said.
When someone voices a complaint, they are not inherently making an implicit statement about being owed something.
I doubt you would speak to your mother that way because, frankly, it is an rather anti-social reply. She's not dumb, she knows she is owed nothing. In the hypothetical complaint she was not claiming to be owed anything. Your quip is clearing nothing up.
I doubt you would speak to your mother that way because, frankly, it is an rather anti-social reply. She's not dumb, she knows she is owed nothing. In the hypothetical complaint she was not claiming to be owed anything. Your quip is clearing nothing up.
I disagree. Complaining about some deficiency on a free blogging platform sounds exactly like a misplaced expression of entitlement to me.
Maybe it is anti-social, but I don't feel bad about that. I have yet to receive a coherent answer to my original 'so what' question, about why Tumblr should enable NSFW content indexing on Google if they (Tumblr) feel that it's hurting their brand to do so.
Maybe it is anti-social, but I don't feel bad about that. I have yet to receive a coherent answer to my original 'so what' question, about why Tumblr should enable NSFW content indexing on Google if they (Tumblr) feel that it's hurting their brand to do so.
The thing about "so what?" questions is they are rarely real questions.
I like apricots... so what? Taxis are yellow... so what? This T-Mobile coverage at the airport is shit... so what? Some people are displeased with recent tumblr changes... so what?
Why would you expect an answer to any of those "questions"?
I like apricots... so what? Taxis are yellow... so what? This T-Mobile coverage at the airport is shit... so what? Some people are displeased with recent tumblr changes... so what?
Why would you expect an answer to any of those "questions"?
I wouldn't, but that wasn't the sort of question I asked. Instead, I quoted the specific context, because I was curious about why the parent poster thought it mattered if adult-flagged blogs got delisted from search engines. He had phrased his comment in such a way that it seemed like he considered this a Bad Thing, whereas it seems to me that a) you could still build an audience without relying on Google and b) it seemed strange to me that the existence of a blog should be measured only in terms of its readership.
I think this was perfectly clear from the context, and substituting arbitrary statements about nothing in particular to critique my original question (after having complained about how I would communicate with my mother or console a bereft cola drinker) suggests to me that it's you who doesn't have any particular point to make.
I found some of the other comments disagreeing with my viewpoint more enlightening, but I'm not clear on what your point is other than having a go at me.
I think this was perfectly clear from the context, and substituting arbitrary statements about nothing in particular to critique my original question (after having complained about how I would communicate with my mother or console a bereft cola drinker) suggests to me that it's you who doesn't have any particular point to make.
I found some of the other comments disagreeing with my viewpoint more enlightening, but I'm not clear on what your point is other than having a go at me.
Did it occur to you that perhaps he thinks it will negatively impact him?
If that is genuinely what you were not getting, then you have been anything but clear. My point is that you seem to be engaging in a sort of senseless anti-social comment sniping. I think that has been pretty clear, though I admit I could have done more to make my intentions plain.
If that is genuinely what you were not getting, then you have been anything but clear. My point is that you seem to be engaging in a sort of senseless anti-social comment sniping. I think that has been pretty clear, though I admit I could have done more to make my intentions plain.
>I'm a big believer in voting with your wallet.
How is this suppose to work. Voting with your wallet is a very course signal, saying no more than that you do not like some recent change. If you complain, then the company knows what it is that you do not like, and can make a better informed decision if they should continue to do it. This complaint can be backed up by voting with your wallet, but you need both.
How is this suppose to work. Voting with your wallet is a very course signal, saying no more than that you do not like some recent change. If you complain, then the company knows what it is that you do not like, and can make a better informed decision if they should continue to do it. This complaint can be backed up by voting with your wallet, but you need both.
I like to hear about it when my users dislike a change, even if I don't owe them anything. I also believe that I actually do owe users something when they invest time into my product.
I pay for Tumblr by providing information they use for various purposes. Information has value, and is being exchanged for a service.
No one is saying that its their right to have their blog indexed, they are simply expressing dissatisfaction with a change in service, which is a completely fair way for consumers of a product to interact with its creators. Tumblr has every right to not grant it, users have every right to be upset. Tumblr also has the right to remove EVERY blog of theirs from indexing, that's not the point.
By your line of argument, tumblr doesn't owe any user anything.
That's right, except insofar as they enter into some kind of contractual relationship (eg 'we will host your stuff reliably in accordance with our T&C, in return you allow us to stick adverts on it from time to time.')
Tumblr doesn't put ads on the persons blog, just the dashboard - which is the primary way users consume content on the site. The users tumblelog is theirs to do with what they want (within legal limits, and certain TOS limits...) including putting their own ads on them.
It's just an example of what sort of agreement could exist between a service provider and user. I chose the example of ads because a) Yahoo now owns Tumblr, and Yahoo's major source of revenue is ads, so that could happen in future; and b) in contract law, you typically have no rights to a free service but if you there is some exchange such as their putting ads on your log then a commercial exchange wouldbe taking place.
Right - I am just stating as a current Tumblr employee how it currently is - obviously the future is hypothetical and not something I will personally speculate on with regards to my employer - but I understand the point.
They probably don't.
> So what?
A fine example of a thought-terminating cliché. You should add it to the list!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché
A fine example of a thought-terminating cliché. You should add it to the list!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché
These blogs are mostly posting pics from porn sites and slapping ads on them. Search is irrelevant. There isn't really any context.
So this doesn't kill the blog as long as people spam links to the site on Reddit. They were never going to be found by (or linked to) google in the first place.
So this doesn't kill the blog as long as people spam links to the site on Reddit. They were never going to be found by (or linked to) google in the first place.
Wait I think your wrong - it says
"Flag this blog as NSFW" so people in Safe Mode can avoid it. Your blog will still be promoted in third-party search engines."
...which implies you CAN search for NSFW tumblr blogs, with google?
Or am I wrong/confused?
"Flag this blog as NSFW" so people in Safe Mode can avoid it. Your blog will still be promoted in third-party search engines."
...which implies you CAN search for NSFW tumblr blogs, with google?
Or am I wrong/confused?
There are two different classifications, NSFW and Adult. NSFW is opt-in by the creator of the blog, and still allows the blog to be indexed by search engines. Adult is an automatic classification applied by Tumblr (previously the blog creator could also opt in to it, but in this announcement they say that will no longer be the case), and prevents the blog from being indexed by search engines.
See this table for details: http://www.tumblr.com/docs/en/nsfw
See this table for details: http://www.tumblr.com/docs/en/nsfw
I'm still waiting for a real porn filter for my tumblr. These changes screw authors over without letting me actually have the browsing experience I want.
I follow a bunch of blogs which, very occasionally, post something NSFW, which they tag #NSFW. I want to see most of their posts, but filter out those tagged ones from my dashboard, whether I view it from my PC or phone. (in a web browser, it's possible to do this with an unofficial extension, which tumblr breaks every couple of weeks and then has to be patched. on your phone, you're stuck seeing the porn on the subway, with people looking over your shoulder.)
this is simple; a text field of blocked tags for each user, and then filter the input to their dashboard table (or whatever). There is no way to do this at present. (I've just checked my settings page, and still not there.)
(this doesn't just work for porn; it also lets people filter out stuff on a topic that they aren't interested in, but see the other stuff from those users. Twitter also lacks this feature, although many twitter clients do implement a "tag mute" setting.)
I follow a bunch of blogs which, very occasionally, post something NSFW, which they tag #NSFW. I want to see most of their posts, but filter out those tagged ones from my dashboard, whether I view it from my PC or phone. (in a web browser, it's possible to do this with an unofficial extension, which tumblr breaks every couple of weeks and then has to be patched. on your phone, you're stuck seeing the porn on the subway, with people looking over your shoulder.)
this is simple; a text field of blocked tags for each user, and then filter the input to their dashboard table (or whatever). There is no way to do this at present. (I've just checked my settings page, and still not there.)
(this doesn't just work for porn; it also lets people filter out stuff on a topic that they aren't interested in, but see the other stuff from those users. Twitter also lacks this feature, although many twitter clients do implement a "tag mute" setting.)
The reason you see innocent tags like #gay being blocked on certain platforms is that they are still frequently returning adult content which our entire app was close to being banned for.
I guess it's about Apple's no porn policy, but I thought results returned by search were OK with a 17+ years warning. Or is it for pure browsing clients only, and platform owners' official app don't get the same privilege ? Am I missing something ? (not that Apple's policies are consistent or evenly applied, but still...)
I guess it's about Apple's no porn policy, but I thought results returned by search were OK with a 17+ years warning. Or is it for pure browsing clients only, and platform owners' official app don't get the same privilege ? Am I missing something ? (not that Apple's policies are consistent or evenly applied, but still...)
Apple review policies and reviewers are really inconsistent. Their process isn't transparent in any way and who reviews your app has a lot of leeway for rejecting your submission, even if its the reviewers mistake.
Which is a great reason for developers to say "screw Apple" and develop exclusively for Android.
I don't get why so many developers care so much about iOS.
I don't get why so many developers care so much about iOS.
Average app price: Android $0.06, iPhone $0.19, iPad $0.50. I'm picking this might be a part of it.
Its just one data point but I've never seen anyone say that there is more money to be made on Android.
http://blog.flurry.com/bid/99013/The-History-of-App-Pricing-...
You linked to a very insightful blog post.
I guess the TL:DR is that it's tough to get rich in the mobile app market unless you have enough users to make ads profitable.
I guess the TL:DR is that it's tough to get rich in the mobile app market unless you have enough users to make ads profitable.
Its true that its hard to sell an app directly on Google Play compared to the iTunes app store. A lot of devs have switched to in-app purchases or subscriptions as a way to allow their app to be free, allowing users to engage with the app before they decide if they want to buy in (the older style of doing this is a free app and then a premium unlocker app). Ultimately the pay upfront model hasn't really taken off and Android and probably never will for most apps.
Because it's a great market
Userbase. If you don't develop for iOS and your target market is using iOS you are losing out on A LOT.
Apple's policy is completely consistent here. If you are a browser then you don't control the data that the user is accessing. But with all other apps especially Tumblr you do control the data.
Not really. In the meantime I've been wondering about their past stance for twitter for example, and it seems twitter got away with just marking the app 17+ [ http://allthingsd.com/20130206/nudged-by-apple-twitters-porn... ]
With such a clear prior case, it feels like tumblr tried to play it safer than necessary for some reason (the app is 17+ anyway)
With such a clear prior case, it feels like tumblr tried to play it safer than necessary for some reason (the app is 17+ anyway)
That was my take, too. While it's certainly true that Apple can be inconsistent and even weirdly capricious, this wouldn't be the first time a company has preemptively "censored" themselves on the App Store.
While it's true that a Tumblr app is a bit different from, say, a web browser, it's not really true that Tumblr has a high level of control over the content on their own service -- no more than a service like Twitter or even Facebook does.
While it's true that a Tumblr app is a bit different from, say, a web browser, it's not really true that Tumblr has a high level of control over the content on their own service -- no more than a service like Twitter or even Facebook does.
The logical thing to do in this situation would be to block those search terms when they come from ios-devices.
While I think its really cool from a programming perspective, from a web design perspective, that logo was annoying the shit out of me.
If you want me to read your blog, let me read it and stop distracting me.
You have many options for improving your reading experience, among them:
Evernote Clearly
Readability's Read Now feature
InstaRead
viewtext.org (always extremely slow for me)
Evernote Clearly
Readability's Read Now feature
InstaRead
viewtext.org (always extremely slow for me)
I was gona come comment how cool I thought it was - perhaps because I lost interest in the actual article though :-)
I'm holding out for the tumblr userbase to protest by marking all their blogs as nsfw, and watching tumblr completely disappear from web searches.
Well, it seems it was a glitch + some misinformation (not helped by the said glitch), but I already see two problems with that :
1) As with Facebook, people who will hate it will still hang on because a lot of existing content they've subscribed/favorited/bookmarked etc...
2) Getting the Tumblr userbase to do anything other than whine is like herding cats into dancing Gangnam Style (I mean real cats, not Psy with superimposed kitty faces).
If you're unhappy with whatever they're doing, a better option (IMO)would be to complain even louder until Tumbler actually changes things. Unlike FB, which is pretty deaf to complaints to begin with and is run by Satan-lite (Zuckerberg), Tumblr was only recently acquired and Yahoo investors don't want to sink the boat.
1) As with Facebook, people who will hate it will still hang on because a lot of existing content they've subscribed/favorited/bookmarked etc...
2) Getting the Tumblr userbase to do anything other than whine is like herding cats into dancing Gangnam Style (I mean real cats, not Psy with superimposed kitty faces).
If you're unhappy with whatever they're doing, a better option (IMO)would be to complain even louder until Tumbler actually changes things. Unlike FB, which is pretty deaf to complaints to begin with and is run by Satan-lite (Zuckerberg), Tumblr was only recently acquired and Yahoo investors don't want to sink the boat.
The article explicitly states NSFW blogs are still searchable.
The complaints are not about censorship, they are about being de-indexed. "Adult" blogs are a separate category of NSFW, so this response doesn't address the issue - which is specifically regarding "adult" blogs.
In addition to disabling search for adult blogs, Tumblr has enabled robots.txt (Disallow: /) for all "adult" blogs so they're not findable from the outside any more either. On top of all this, Tumblr removed its Erotica category, which was formerly released in January 2010 with much pride on their part.
This all changed sometime early this year, and began to be noticed by sex bloggers both on and off of Tumblr in mid-May.
In addition to disabling search for adult blogs, Tumblr has enabled robots.txt (Disallow: /) for all "adult" blogs so they're not findable from the outside any more either. On top of all this, Tumblr removed its Erotica category, which was formerly released in January 2010 with much pride on their part.
This all changed sometime early this year, and began to be noticed by sex bloggers both on and off of Tumblr in mid-May.
Yahoo, this is porn we're talking about. Porn on the internet. Yahoo, porn finds a way.
This is like buying Starbucks and then getting the "brilliant idea" to stop selling coffee and to instead focus on selling coffee cakes.
This is like buying Starbucks and then getting the "brilliant idea" to stop selling coffee and to instead focus on selling coffee cakes.
I didn't even realize that Tumblr had community editors that curated their hash tags, is there some place with more information on this, besides this page? http://www.tumblr.com/docs/en/editor_guidelines
I believe it is only true of a small number of featured tags: http://www.tumblr.com/docs/en/featured_tags
From a friend: "They seem to have rescinded a lot of it, albeit with a shitty nonapology blaming users: <link to this post>. Some of the tags in question could never [have] brought up porn, like 'depression'. I call at least partial bullshit."
Not sure what the 'depression' tag has to do with any of this - it is not filtered, it returns results, and it has a PSA at the top of the page as with other specific keywords due to the nature of the search query.
Depression probably returns self-harm images, which Apple would obviously block.
Reject to read anything that have a logo in the left side moving all the time.
Blocking tags on the mobile app is a separate issue, they don't really have a choice here. Apple will pull their app if they don't.