Snowden banned from flying to UK(bbc.co.uk)
bbc.co.uk
Snowden banned from flying to UK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22902098
14 comments
"It's a horrible place to live"
In all fairness, it does sound like a horrible place to live. I mean, on top of all the problems he listed, you guys also have awful weather. :)
I'm not going to deny that our weather is awful :) but there is a lot of good too - a relatively free democracy (aside from all the questionable stuff listed above that let's face it is likely occurring in every western country, though we might be leading the way on CCTV) which is far, far less infiltrated by religious nuts than many countries, London which alone counts for a HELL of a lot :), lots of history, good cheddar cheese, and most important of all - weather-induced sense of humour! ;-)
It might be that "the neighbor's grass is always greener" but as an Italian living in the UK I think that 98% of the things here are way better. That 2% missing is the climate and the food. I really think the UK is a great place to live but as I said, maybe you hate it because you lived here too much and I love it because I am "relatively" new.
To be fair, all the 14 CCTV cameras on my street (!) have been sprayed, burned or shot.
That's the only crime going on around where I live.
People aren't putting up with this shit any more.
That's the only crime going on around where I live.
People aren't putting up with this shit any more.
I think this graffiti project is quite funny. (http://www.irational.org/heath/cctv_sabotage/)
Thanks. I love paying extra tax to replace vandalised cameras.
> It's a horrible place to live
Well fuck you too.
Although I do agree with the rest of your post.
Well fuck you too.
Although I do agree with the rest of your post.
You forgot to mention there are a high proportion of whiners in the UK.
It's not even remotely a horrible place to live. On the strength of that idiocy I feel confident that you have never been anywhere else and that you have no opinons worth taking seriously. How old are you? 13?
He called (presumably) your country a bad place to live.
Your response is a drastic overreaction and is nothing more than an ad hominem attack on another user. Nothing in his post suggests he's never been elsewhere or that he's particularly immature.
Does your post seem like a reasonable response to anything?
Your response is a drastic overreaction and is nothing more than an ad hominem attack on another user. Nothing in his post suggests he's never been elsewhere or that he's particularly immature.
Does your post seem like a reasonable response to anything?
He'll be fine if he can get to the Ecuadorian Embassy quick enough :)
I live in the UK and am utterly disgusted at the pieces of shit that act in our name.
You can't vote them out as it's a bipartisan system with two sets of the same ideals.
You can't revolt because everyone is too busy staring at Simon Cowel's nefarious trash pumped through our telescreens.
You can't speak up because it's illegal.
Sit, obey, conform.
I live in the UK and am utterly disgusted at the pieces of shit that act in our name.
You can't vote them out as it's a bipartisan system with two sets of the same ideals.
You can't revolt because everyone is too busy staring at Simon Cowel's nefarious trash pumped through our telescreens.
You can't speak up because it's illegal.
Sit, obey, conform.
That cracked me up. Is Assange expected to die in that embassy?
At the moment, yes. His only other options are:
1. Get from the building to a diplomatically immune car and out of the EU. Not going to happen: the fuzz will snag him the moment he steps out of the door.
2. Wait for a politically sympathetic party is voted in and the extradition rules are changed. Not going to happen: people are too stupid to vote for anything other than "the big two" and if they did, they won't change policy or America will go all "Fuck Yeah" on our arses.
3. Wait for the whole thing to be uncovered publicly as a fucking massive international political scam and he is pardoned.
4. Hope that Kurzweil was right, upload his conscious mind to a machine with OpenSSH and SCP himself overseas.
I reckon (3) is most likely.
1. Get from the building to a diplomatically immune car and out of the EU. Not going to happen: the fuzz will snag him the moment he steps out of the door.
2. Wait for a politically sympathetic party is voted in and the extradition rules are changed. Not going to happen: people are too stupid to vote for anything other than "the big two" and if they did, they won't change policy or America will go all "Fuck Yeah" on our arses.
3. Wait for the whole thing to be uncovered publicly as a fucking massive international political scam and he is pardoned.
4. Hope that Kurzweil was right, upload his conscious mind to a machine with OpenSSH and SCP himself overseas.
I reckon (3) is most likely.
I'd add:
5. He finally gets stir crazy enough to attempt to sneak out and gets collared or just decides to take his chances in Sweden.
6. Ecuador gets sick of him and kicks him out (maybe after a change of leadership).
And I think 5 is likelier than 3.
5. He finally gets stir crazy enough to attempt to sneak out and gets collared or just decides to take his chances in Sweden.
6. Ecuador gets sick of him and kicks him out (maybe after a change of leadership).
And I think 5 is likelier than 3.
I feel like 6 is likely to happen before anything else. His presence is a net negative for Ecuador, I can't see it being very popular that they have a highly wanted individual hanging around the house all day.
Swedish jails are actually very humane; the irony is he would have gotten more sunlight, fresh air, exercise and probably better food too, if he had just surrendered a year ago.
Until they extradite him to the US that is...
Would be a breach of EU law if they did - as he was extradited from the UK, he has to be returned to the UK. And if the UK was going to extradite him, why would he be so keen on staying here?
As far as extradition goes, he's technically in Ecuador right now, not the UK. If he were, he'd be gone already ;)
What about the old magicians trick where 100 people walk in, put on Guy Fawkes masks, then all leave at once in different directions?!
I for one hope he gets to take a senate seat in Australia. Under the rules of parliamentary privilege you can say anything in the chamber without risk of prosecution. Imagine he'd have a bit to say...
I for one hope he gets to take a senate seat in Australia. Under the rules of parliamentary privilege you can say anything in the chamber without risk of prosecution. Imagine he'd have a bit to say...
I don't know what you're imagining the Ecuadorean embassy to be, but it's actually just a large-ish apartment in a normal apartment building. There aren't that many doors, probably only a front door and a fire escape. And from the photos, I don't think they're on the ground floor either, so they can't even tunnel out...
That's one of the reasons they want rid of him - they didn't have much space to start with.
That's one of the reasons they want rid of him - they didn't have much space to start with.
They invented the machine gun for such circumstances.
5. They get so sick of sharing that place with him that they appoint him ambassador to the UK for life and the rest of the staff bails.
If the powers that be get desperate enough they'll just burn down the embassy, forcing him to come out.
It will be an "accidental" gas leak or some such.
It will be an "accidental" gas leak or some such.
I came up with a crazy idea this morning for an internet based political party that allows its members to vote on all ideas and actions the party will take. I think now is the time for something like this. We need to make it happen.
Be careful on what you wish for.
"The strongest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." Winston Churchill.
"The strongest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." Winston Churchill.
Perhaps we should give people a proportional vote weighted by their intelligence?
that sounds like a formula for a true intellectually elitist society. The people's opinions should be heard equally if at all.
My point entirely. There was a degree of sarcasm in it.
Could be right.
If you could text your vote in, most of the UK could even manage to have an opinion between the adverts in the X-Factor and their next cigarette.
If you could text your vote in, most of the UK could even manage to have an opinion between the adverts in the X-Factor and their next cigarette.
Good distributed voting at scale is still an unsolved problem. Well, it is if you care about both the integrity of the vote and voter privacy.
The Pirate Party has been there and is doing that: http://liquidfeedback.org/mission/
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the notice was not supposed to be seen by the public
I am starting to think the people on the other side of "the public doesn't need to know" enjoy their little fantasy world a little too much.
I am starting to think the people on the other side of "the public doesn't need to know" enjoy their little fantasy world a little too much.
What do they have to hide, if they've done nothing wrong? I think we should ask them this question everytime they try to keep something secret from the public.
I don't remember who said it recently, but it's the people who need to know everything their government is doing at all times, not the other way around, with the government knowing everything their citizens do, but keeping everything they do secret. We need to turn this around.
I don't remember who said it recently, but it's the people who need to know everything their government is doing at all times, not the other way around, with the government knowing everything their citizens do, but keeping everything they do secret. We need to turn this around.
"There is no suggestion that he has any intention to try to travel to the UK."
Says it all really. Don't waste your time reading this hypey article.
Says it all really. Don't waste your time reading this hypey article.
Surely Snowden knows that there isn't safe harbour in the UK after what happened to Assange?
Though I do agree with your main point, nothing happened to Assange until Sweden asked to have him extradited to complete the charging process.
Which is what the US is already doing with Snowden. It shows what the UK would already do with Snowden if he did go to the UK.
I'm a bit confused here, even Schneier said that Snowden undoubtedly broke the law, what did you think the U.S. was going to do, especially now that he is talking about leaking details of NSA hacking activities over to China? It's comparatively easy to grant a pardon after extradition for PRISM alone, he's making the rest more difficult.
I imagine that Snowden is well aware of the UK's 'poodle' relationship.
This is known as the highest honour you can get just above knighthood.
Could this not be them acting in his best interests? Giving a warning that they will be unable to help him while still looking strong to the Americans?
I hope Edward Snowden is well wherever he goes, even if the UK, but according to "news" reports, he was making a lot of money, so he is probably in a beach somewhere. In any case, hopefully bring the NSA problem to the public eye will encourage the world to be more private and to demand privacy from their govs.
Being on the run is incredibly expensive. You will burn money at 10x the rate of normal life. And he's not getting a salary any more (and even so, that salary wasn't too dissimilar from what a sysadmin in SF would get).
As always, the UK merely acts as a vassal to the US.
Remember when radio host Michael Savage was banned from the UK? I get the feeling it's not hard to get banned from the country.
Michael Savage is still banned apparently. He was raging about it the other day.
I remember when that decision first came down, and his show was playing The Kinks "Living on a Thin Line" into and out of break (the first part: "All the stories have been told / Of kings and days of old, / But there's no England now.")
Within a few days, if I recall correctly, he was asking the audience to buy copies of his new book and mail them to whoever it was in England that set the rules in this regard, to send her a message.
I'm on the left edge of the political spectrum, assuming that's 2D, but every time Michael Savage was on and I was doing something where I could listen to talk radio I'd tune in. Guy knows how to put on an entertaining show.
Within a few days, if I recall correctly, he was asking the audience to buy copies of his new book and mail them to whoever it was in England that set the rules in this regard, to send her a message.
I'm on the left edge of the political spectrum, assuming that's 2D, but every time Michael Savage was on and I was doing something where I could listen to talk radio I'd tune in. Guy knows how to put on an entertaining show.
At one time America was England's colony, fancy that.
I'm not sure if this is a clever or pathetic attempt to try and manipulate the courts in HK, but that's pretty clearly what it is. They are a former English colony, whose courts are based on English law and who presumably hold the opinions of England in very high regard.
He'd be foolish to come to the UK anyway, we'd extradite him before he'd left the airport.
"liable to costs relating to the individual's detention and removal'' should they allow him to travel. According to the Home Office's website that charge would be £2,000"
Being a little bit cynical, but 2000 GBP seems closer to the cost of shipping him to the US than the cost of detaining him.
Being a little bit cynical, but 2000 GBP seems closer to the cost of shipping him to the US than the cost of detaining him.
Even if they just denied him entry and/or deported him, it would probably would be back to either where he flew from or where his passport's from. And Hong Kong might not want him back once he's been denied entry to the UK, so to the US he would most likely go.
It's [edit] certainly not the place to be if you want privacy.
RIPA (regulation of investigatory powers act) has been abused by local council staff spying on public to see if they live within a school catchment area or within an area qualifying for cheap parking. There are other abuses too.
We're bringing in a "snooper's charter" - this is just traffic data and not content of calls, but still, it's pretty unpleasant.
We had / have "Phorm" - deep packet inspection of customer internet traffic in order to serve ads.
The idea of national ID cards had a small number of opponents, but was mostly met with "meh". The thing that actually killed it was the cost to the individual. I'm sure that if they had kept the cost to £30 per person we'd all have ID cards today.
In theory GCHQ have strict regulatory oversight. I do know people who work for GCHQ. I never talk to them about work, and they never talk to me about work, but they do say that regulatory oversight is real and true.
But we don't have the US concept of "fruit of the poisoned tree" - in the US a wiretap needs a court order, and without that any evidence gained cannot be used in court. That forces cops to actually get the court order, or risk losing cases. In the UK we allow spies to gather this stuff, and police to take action on it, but we don't want it used in court because then it's a matter of public record and thus subject to scrutiny and we leak information about capabilities. I see the benefit in both approaches, but I can appreciate that some people would be horrified with the English approach.
We were complicit in torture of innocent, untried, uncharged, soldiers / terrorists / combatants.
We have detention without charge (http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/terroris...).
The UK has about 1% of the world population, but about 20% of the installed CCTV base.
Cheshire has a population of 700,000 people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire) but has over 12,000 CCTV cameras, of which about 500 - 600 are run by public authorities.
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/02/cctv-cameras-watchi...)
We happily ship people to the US under our unbalanced extradition treaty.
tl;dr: He'd be nuts to want to come here.
{EDIT: Strikethrough [a horrible place to live, and] in response to people below}