Announcing Online MS in Computer Science in Collaboration with Georgia Tech(blog.udacity.com)
blog.udacity.com
Announcing Online MS in Computer Science in Collaboration with Georgia Tech
http://blog.udacity.com/2013/05/sebastian-thrun-announcing-online.html
189 comments
Personal anecdote: I just finished an engineering MS from NC State via their Engineering Online ( http://engineeringonline.ncsu.edu) program. The per-3hr-course cost for EOL courses is roughly $900. For the on campus version of the same thing, it's about $2200. For a 27 credit hour program, that came out to about $8k, which I thought was entirely reasonable given I [as a student local to the school] always had the option of taking advantage of campus facilities/options (libraries/labs, office hours, study groups, etc), too. An added perk was -- as the GT FAQ notes -- the ability to work at my leisure. With a full time job and two toddlers, it took me almost four years to complete the program, but I did and it was a fantastic experience.
<edit> To address a question below about GT's program, NC State's is practically equivalent to their campus-based stuff. You apply, and are admitted, following exactly the same process as everyone else. After admission, you follow the same rules and processes as everyone else. The one exception I've found -- besides making it easier to study part time and draw out the total duration -- is that professors are usually much more lenient with deadlines for their online students. They know a large percentage of online students are doing it that way because they're working full time (or are deployed military, or any of a plethora of other situations), and they offer a lot of leeway. This helped me & my peers quite a lot.
<edit> To address a question below about GT's program, NC State's is practically equivalent to their campus-based stuff. You apply, and are admitted, following exactly the same process as everyone else. After admission, you follow the same rules and processes as everyone else. The one exception I've found -- besides making it easier to study part time and draw out the total duration -- is that professors are usually much more lenient with deadlines for their online students. They know a large percentage of online students are doing it that way because they're working full time (or are deployed military, or any of a plethora of other situations), and they offer a lot of leeway. This helped me & my peers quite a lot.
To address a question below about GT's program, NC State's is practically equivalent to their campus-based stuff.
Out of curiosity, how does this work with project-based courses where the students design their own projects? Or do those not exist?
At least in the kinds of CS masters projects I'm familiar with, they tend to require a lot of one-on-one meeting time, which seems like it would be hard to scale up. It's certainly possible to do online, so online vs. physical isn't really an issue. But if one of the goals of offering these programs online is also to massively increase student:teacher ratio (as GT seems to be indicating), that seems like it would present a problem for individualized projects.
A typical arrangement is that students propose a project, possibly based on some suggestions from the professor. In the ideal case it intersects students' interests with something active going on in the research world or even the professor's lab, so the students and professor might even co-write a conference paper at the end of the course (for the best projects). They meet with the professor a few times to refine the project idea and scope so it's appropriate for the course, likely to be doable, etc. Then they meet a few more times during the project to ensure they're on track, agree on what parts could be cut if time doesn't allow them to be completed as originally envisioned, etc. Finally they do an oral, conference-style presentation of their work/results, and then hand in a report.
Out of curiosity, how does this work with project-based courses where the students design their own projects? Or do those not exist?
At least in the kinds of CS masters projects I'm familiar with, they tend to require a lot of one-on-one meeting time, which seems like it would be hard to scale up. It's certainly possible to do online, so online vs. physical isn't really an issue. But if one of the goals of offering these programs online is also to massively increase student:teacher ratio (as GT seems to be indicating), that seems like it would present a problem for individualized projects.
A typical arrangement is that students propose a project, possibly based on some suggestions from the professor. In the ideal case it intersects students' interests with something active going on in the research world or even the professor's lab, so the students and professor might even co-write a conference paper at the end of the course (for the best projects). They meet with the professor a few times to refine the project idea and scope so it's appropriate for the course, likely to be doable, etc. Then they meet a few more times during the project to ensure they're on track, agree on what parts could be cut if time doesn't allow them to be completed as originally envisioned, etc. Finally they do an oral, conference-style presentation of their work/results, and then hand in a report.
I assume the differentiating factor here is the quality of the courses, Georgia Tech is ranked in top 10 for CS grad school. Also your tuition was low due to the fact that you were an in state student, out of state tuition is much more expensive.
Interesting. I'm also doing an EOL degree from NC State (but an MCS). I'm nearly halfway through. I agree on the deadline thing. A couple weeks ago I asked for an extension due to family medical issues (never done this before) and the professor was very accommodating.
The biggest pain has been exam proctoring. It seems to all be done by hand (exams being emailed/faxed back and forth) and I've experienced every point of failure in the system. And strangely the professors always refuse to tell us when the exam windows are... haven't figure that one out yet.
The biggest pain has been exam proctoring. It seems to all be done by hand (exams being emailed/faxed back and forth) and I've experienced every point of failure in the system. And strangely the professors always refuse to tell us when the exam windows are... haven't figure that one out yet.
To emphasise the point about the distance education program being equivalent, some 'on-campus' students who can't get into a class because it's full often take the distance ed class (which is often simultaneously recorded).
As far as I know, they have the exact same work.
As far as I know, they have the exact same work.
How do you like the program? I tried Nova Southeastern Online masters just for one course and it was horrible quality. Do you think the program was worth your time?
Could you please help me with more info on the course you did?
If it is a undergrad course, can a non-US resident apply for that?
Agreed, revolutionary. In a way, it costing $7000 (rather than being free or nearly free) goes further in lending it credibility. I do wonder though that still for those who would have trouble affording even that, would FAFSA provide aid/loans? And moreover, is an undergrad degree a pre-requisite? I wonder if college dropouts can enroll in this program.
Unfortunately, at least for the moment an undergrad degree is a prerequisite. More generally, you have to be admitted to Georgia Tech as would any other graduate student.
I think there will be quite a few companies willing to pay $7000 in tuition assistance so their employees can get a MS.
I think there will be quite a few companies willing to pay $7000 in tuition assistance so their employees can get a MS.
> More generally, you have to be admitted to Georgia Tech as would any other graduate student.
I don't think they said that. In the faqs they say you don't need to take the GMAT.... which every graduate student has to take.
I don't think they said that. In the faqs they say you don't need to take the GMAT.... which every graduate student has to take.
I think the GMAT is only required for MBA programs. When I was admitted to Georgia Tech as an Aerospace Engineering graduate student in 1992, I didn't need the GMAT, just the GRE.
Ah, I stand corrected.
You're right -- that was phrased ambiguously. I should have said "there will be an admissions process similar to that for the non-online MS CS". I don't know what the exact requirements will be.
Tech's MSCS is pretty competitive in terms of admissions. I assume this will be somewhat broader in its acceptance?
A large part of the credentialing value of a degree is that the person was skilled enough to be accepted onto the course, if they make entrance less competitive it will likely significantly reduce the market value of the degree in credentialing terms.
True but some degree of selectivity must be related to capacity rather than qualification. They probably have an abundance of applicants with enough skills to get through the program but their capacity forces them to be even more selective than that. Those are the people that would likely be well served by this program.
Well, there's no real scarcity of teaching faculty and other resources in a MOOC format, so that pressure will be removed. But I don't know how the standards will be set. I'm not sure Georgia Tech knows that yet, either.
According to http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/05/14/georgia-tech-a...:
> Georgia Tech said it does not plan to lower admission standards to find 6,000 or so students for this track -- a number than is 20 times larger than its current computer science master’s degree program. Instead, Georgia Tech hopes to attract more qualified applicants from across the world, including inside the military and at companies – places that harbor nontraditional students who could not previously come to a traditional campus or find the money for a full degree, on campus or online.
> Georgia Tech said it does not plan to lower admission standards to find 6,000 or so students for this track -- a number than is 20 times larger than its current computer science master’s degree program. Instead, Georgia Tech hopes to attract more qualified applicants from across the world, including inside the military and at companies – places that harbor nontraditional students who could not previously come to a traditional campus or find the money for a full degree, on campus or online.
Except no GRE, which is removing another unnecessary barrier to entry. The admissions process also seems to be an effort-based process of testing out of some initial curriculum. Much better than studying for a standardized test.
Well, they also plan to offer certificates, I assume based on the same program, which they say will cost substantially less.
And the materials themselves will be free, like a regular Udacity class.
And the materials themselves will be free, like a regular Udacity class.
As a non-CS grad, could I really get an MS in CS from doing an online class? Seems pretty insane, but something I might consider for 7k.
Yes. Maybe you'd have to take some remedial courses first though. SNHU offers B.S. in CS online. http://www.snhu.edu/
There is nothing in CS that requires your physical presence in a lecture hall to learn.
There is nothing in CS that requires your physical presence in a lecture hall to learn.
All I find is a BS in IT, with a concentration in software development. And the IT department is under the School of Business. It doesn't look like they actually offer any computer science courses.
Yep, I looked and discovered the same thing; it isn't a 'pure' CS program. I've discovered lots of these IT programs masquerading as CS programs - it's disappointing, to say the least. I'm really interested in pursuing an undergraduate level degree in CS (I have a liberal arts degree from a Top 15 US school, working full time, but if I could have done everything over, I would have done CS).
In my search thus far, I've found zero schools that offer a traditional undergrad CS program online. And please, before we get into the 'you can learn most of undergrad level CS topics online' - I would like the structure and support from an online, instructor led course that offers student assistance/office-hours. This is something I'd pay for, but because I'm working full time, I can't take classes during the workday.
In my search thus far, I've found zero schools that offer a traditional undergrad CS program online. And please, before we get into the 'you can learn most of undergrad level CS topics online' - I would like the structure and support from an online, instructor led course that offers student assistance/office-hours. This is something I'd pay for, but because I'm working full time, I can't take classes during the workday.
Florida State University offers an online BS in CS - http://distance.fsu.edu/students/online-programs?prog_id=177
and it's actually a CS program rather than a glorified IT program.
Generally, 2-way interaction is done via message board, but most (maybe all?) of the instructors I've had so far keep specific office hours and available are for web chat or telephone calls during those hours.
Any of the prereqs that you're missing could potentially be taken as a transient at another institution (be it locally, or online). This is how I've handled the few classes I was missing.
Based on the rates listed on the page linked above, it should be around $25k for the whole thing (based on needing 60 credits of upper-division classes, since you already have a Bachelor's), even as a non-resident.
Generally, 2-way interaction is done via message board, but most (maybe all?) of the instructors I've had so far keep specific office hours and available are for web chat or telephone calls during those hours.
Any of the prereqs that you're missing could potentially be taken as a transient at another institution (be it locally, or online). This is how I've handled the few classes I was missing.
Based on the rates listed on the page linked above, it should be around $25k for the whole thing (based on needing 60 credits of upper-division classes, since you already have a Bachelor's), even as a non-resident.
Regis University offers an online BS in CS. I don't think it is a top 15 school, but it is ABET accredited. The only problem is tuition is $410 a credit hour, so they estimate a total cost of anywhere from 10k to 50k. http://regis.edu/CPS/Academics/Degrees-and-Programs/Undergra...
awesome find, thank you! Yes, it's a bit pricey but...I expected that. I think $15-20K is reasonable, provided students receive instructor support.
I would worry about the legitimacy of any MS in CS program that did not make someone without a CS undergrad degree take significant remedial coursework.
Having never done an MS in CS...
So long as they know the fundamentals of programming (through, say, the equivalent a Data Structures class) I think a mathematician could take a go at it without much issue. An EE probably wouldn't have too much trouble either.
So long as they know the fundamentals of programming (through, say, the equivalent a Data Structures class) I think a mathematician could take a go at it without much issue. An EE probably wouldn't have too much trouble either.
In my experience, at least with average state schools, their MS in CS curriculum is--to a degree--a rehash of their undergraduate curriculum. Often times they'll just assign more work, or slightly harder work. I'm sure it depends on the program, but many programs seem to assume that even if a candidate comes into the program with a BS in CS, they'll have to have their memory "refreshed" to a significant degree.
Also, there is an element of selection bias. Those who are likely to apply to an MS in Computer Science self-select according to their perception of the requirements of those programs. This enables programs to capture those without a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science but who still have the level of motivation, acumen, and interest necessary to succeed in an MS program in Computer Science.
Also, there is an element of selection bias. Those who are likely to apply to an MS in Computer Science self-select according to their perception of the requirements of those programs. This enables programs to capture those without a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science but who still have the level of motivation, acumen, and interest necessary to succeed in an MS program in Computer Science.
That is interesting- My masters program in Software Engineering was not like this. I remember a guy with an electrical engineering BS complaining he had like 16-18 remedial C-S credits to take before he could enter the MSE program.
"Formal admission into the OMS CS program will require a Bachelor of Science degree in computer science from an accredited institution, or a related Bachelor of Science degree with a possible need to take and pass remedial courses." -- http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/faq/
katholieke universiteit leuven offers a masters course in AI for about EUR 5000, on campus. I checked with them in Jan of 2012. I then asked the professor if this was for students of Belgium and what is the price for international students ( I am from India). He confirmed that the price was the same. The university is ranked about 68-75 in the world, of course that is subjective.
I feel the USD 40,000-50,000 price is overpriced for the on campus course. People should verify independently of me about the University of Leuven and post something here.
I feel the USD 40,000-50,000 price is overpriced for the on campus course. People should verify independently of me about the University of Leuven and post something here.
> He confirmed that the price was the same.
Hm. Unless this is a master's course that requires that you already have a different master degree, it should only cost about 500 euros for Belgian students.
Hm. Unless this is a master's course that requires that you already have a different master degree, it should only cost about 500 euros for Belgian students.
In Europe education is usually cheaper.
The general idea is that the society can afford to foot the bill for education better than it can afford to have people not attain the highest level they could reach.
The general idea is that the society can afford to foot the bill for education better than it can afford to have people not attain the highest level they could reach.
Yes, we do enjoy our 50-60-70% tax rates here in Europe. Thankfully Sweden recently stopped pissing away the Swedish taxpayers' money by paying for the university education of foreigners.
Yes, we do enjoy our tax rates because we know the benefits (such as the average quality of life) are higher than in other parts of the world (such as USA). Check out the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.
Only downside I see in the FAQ has to do with this: they say the expected time for completion is still 3 years, though they suggest people may take up to 6 years if necessary. Udacity has been tho most flexible so far in letting people accomplish what they want at their own pace but, having just taken GT's computational photography on coursera, I wonder if they're going to stick to an organized, semester-like schedule.
The only thing left is to allow people to earn a BS in CS through Udacity as well (or dropping the requirement for a BS for this program, but that seems less likely).
Why? Why wouldn't they just drop the requirements? They are not taking any risks, the online course is incredibly cheap to scale.
If the student passes the course, doesn't he deserve a masters? If he doesn't, well, he still paid 7k.
If the student passes the course, doesn't he deserve a masters? If he doesn't, well, he still paid 7k.
They're taking the risk of diluting the quality of their degree by letting in a lot of underqualified and unprepared students. Also if they get a load of unqualified students they'll either have to support these students or just let them fail. Either way drags down the program.
The incentives in college have always been in alignment, because there is so much interesting stuff going on (at universities worth their name) on campus, both in the academic and social spheres (visiting scholars, entrepreneurs, conferences, reading groups, debating, dinners, balls, parties, even fraternities, and foremostly time for real conversations with close friends), that finishing work efficiently always has had its own payoffs.
For all the talk about on-line degrees, I don't see them being a good replacement, unless as the cheap/distance option (makes more sense where tuition is high such as in the US), or for mature students with a job/family on the side.
Nothing can replace the full university experience (perhaps until somebody boots up a proper Matrix).
College is not just about book-knowledge, but also about being immersed in a new environment, meeting new people and developing new skills.
Naturally all this can be done in ones sleepy home-village, or on the 10/5-6 city job as well, but very few people find the time, or do the root-cutting necessary to be able to do so.
For all the talk about on-line degrees, I don't see them being a good replacement, unless as the cheap/distance option (makes more sense where tuition is high such as in the US), or for mature students with a job/family on the side.
Nothing can replace the full university experience (perhaps until somebody boots up a proper Matrix).
College is not just about book-knowledge, but also about being immersed in a new environment, meeting new people and developing new skills.
Naturally all this can be done in ones sleepy home-village, or on the 10/5-6 city job as well, but very few people find the time, or do the root-cutting necessary to be able to do so.
One interesting thing I noticed here: my wife obtained her Masters in French law for just over €2,000. Many universities here in Europe are free or very low cost (often £150 per semester).
It's the poorly-subsidized, "for profit" nature of the US educational system which has led to the US going from first to twelfth place in the percentage of young people with university degrees (http://completionagenda.collegeboard.org/sites/default/files...) (warning: pdf).
While I applaud what I'm seeing here and I think it's great news, the "low price" of $7000 is only for the Masters program ... you already have to have a Bachelors degree and it's still a far higher price than you'll pay in many parts of the world.
It's the poorly-subsidized, "for profit" nature of the US educational system which has led to the US going from first to twelfth place in the percentage of young people with university degrees (http://completionagenda.collegeboard.org/sites/default/files...) (warning: pdf).
While I applaud what I'm seeing here and I think it's great news, the "low price" of $7000 is only for the Masters program ... you already have to have a Bachelors degree and it's still a far higher price than you'll pay in many parts of the world.
Is this course available for non-US resident ??
That appears to be the intent. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5709930
Thanks I am very enthusiast about the course, one thing I want to mention that if fee of this course can be paid in instalment then it will be best thing as I am from India and $7000 is equal to 350000 INR(big price for average Indian)
I'm taking an "online" (distance learning, really) MSc in software engineering here in the UK and it'll cost about $11000 or so all in, so this is especially great value given it's the US.
What school are you going through if you don't mind me asking.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Awesome.
Did anyone else wonder how much it would cost to live on beaches of South-East Asia or some other cheap and sunny locale while doing this?
Did anyone else wonder how much it would cost to live on beaches of South-East Asia or some other cheap and sunny locale while doing this?
From the PR announcement: "Initial enrollment will be limited to a few hundred students recruited from AT&T and Georgia Tech corporate affiliates."
Where do you see the price $7000?
If you chase the links you end up on the Georgia Tech site about it: http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/faq.
You also have to have a Bachelor's degree, which is a disappointment for me. I left college before completing my BS in CS, and I'd love to be in this program, but I wouldn't be admitted.
[disclosure: my wife works in the Georgia Tech Professional Education group, which is how I heard about this]
We’re not yet ready to announce a specific program cost,
but the plan is to offer the Georgia Tech OMS CS for a
total cost of under $7,000—a fraction of the cost of
Georgia Tech’s on-campus program and even less than that
of comparable private universities.
You also have to have a Bachelor's degree, which is a disappointment for me. I left college before completing my BS in CS, and I'd love to be in this program, but I wouldn't be admitted.
[disclosure: my wife works in the Georgia Tech Professional Education group, which is how I heard about this]
All the content will be free to everybody, but you have to apply to Georgia Tech and pay if you want the actual degree.
Really?! Forget the degree then, I just want the content!
Really?! Forget the degree then, I just want the content!
Agreed - this is not really "Massively Open" IMO, because it still requires a bachelor's in CS for admission. They do hint at it, but hopefully they will allow an option B for admission.
That would somewhat validate their stated goal of increasing STEM education.
That would somewhat validate their stated goal of increasing STEM education.
The course materials and participation are MO, just not the Masters degree itself.
At the next family-attending Georgia Tech Professional Education function I'm going to petition everybody who'll stand still to allow people without a BS to earn the degree. But I think I'll actually be preaching to the choir.
Anyway, it's a huge step for them to create this program as is. And once the concerns about "degree devaluation" have passed, and enough demand has become apparent, maybe they'll be ready for the next step.
At the next family-attending Georgia Tech Professional Education function I'm going to petition everybody who'll stand still to allow people without a BS to earn the degree. But I think I'll actually be preaching to the choir.
Anyway, it's a huge step for them to create this program as is. And once the concerns about "degree devaluation" have passed, and enough demand has become apparent, maybe they'll be ready for the next step.
On http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/faq/ it says:
How much does the degree program cost?
We’re not yet ready to announce a specific program cost, but the plan is to offer the Georgia Tech OMS CS for a total cost of under $7,000—a fraction of the cost of Georgia Tech’s on-campus program and even less than that of comparable private universities.
How much does the degree program cost?
We’re not yet ready to announce a specific program cost, but the plan is to offer the Georgia Tech OMS CS for a total cost of under $7,000—a fraction of the cost of Georgia Tech’s on-campus program and even less than that of comparable private universities.
That Udacity is behind this initiative makes this much, much more exciting to me (I'm not big on the whole MOOC business, but Udacity is different; it's the Khan Academy of MOOCs). I've found them to hold themselves to a very high standard, and as someone who's been right in the middle of education-based experiments gone wrong, this makes me feel a lot more optimistic about this project.
Still, I'd recommend people at least let it run for a full one or two years before giving it a shot. The second mouse gets the cheese and all that.
Still, I'd recommend people at least let it run for a full one or two years before giving it a shot. The second mouse gets the cheese and all that.
The cost of a similar master's degree at a university like Georgia Tech can run $40,000.
It's not quite the same thing -- watch the video by Charles Isbell on the GT site to hear their differentiation between the "on campus" and online degrees. But it's an amazing value for people who can learn effectively in a MOOC environment and aren't focused on the path into research and academia.
The video is also at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihmiLx3Xlk.
[edit: added link to video]
It's not quite the same thing -- watch the video by Charles Isbell on the GT site to hear their differentiation between the "on campus" and online degrees. But it's an amazing value for people who can learn effectively in a MOOC environment and aren't focused on the path into research and academia.
The video is also at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihmiLx3Xlk.
[edit: added link to video]
http://www.bursar.gatech.edu/student/tuition/Fall_2013/Fall1...
looks more like 60K depending on your in state/out of state status
looks more like 60K depending on your in state/out of state status
The signs are telling me I should cash out my bitcoins and get an online MSCS!
As an undergraduate georgia tech cs student. I wish this was for undergrad degrees also. At least I will be able to get a cheap masters degree.
As a former undergraduate Georgia Tech student, I really would've appreciated the opportunity to do my degree in this format. At the time I was faced with the choice of dropping out and diving into my job at a startup full-time, or staying in school and working only during the summers and losing the ability to take a really important role in the company. The ability to keep working on my degree online might have changed how I approached the choice.
Honestly, while it sucks that I can't take advantage of what will probably happen in the future (undergrad degrees in this format). I can't say i'm not proud to be going there after hearing about this. I'm happy that this will be an option for our future. Hopefully it's successful and affects all areas of study.
You also save $700/year by not needing a parking pass.
I think Georgia Tech is just the right kind of partner for something like this. Solid name recognition to give credibility to the degree, but not one that's so steeped in exclusivity that it might be compromised by association with the online format. And the pricing, $7,000, is spot-on for what this offers.
I'm so happy to see this - it's a sign of progress of the education system, and it gives me so much relief to see that someone gets it at the top of the education totem pole. I discussed this with a master's degree student a few years ago, because the cost (especially for computer science, no labs) seemed too low to ignore. I will sign up for this as soon as possible.
Also, having a master's in Comp Sci will really help me have a shot for all these software eng. positions I keep applying to as a chemical engineer.
Can anyone tell me how Georgia Tech ranks/is thought of for Computer Science? I know the article says "among the best", but I would rather ask HN.
Also, having a master's in Comp Sci will really help me have a shot for all these software eng. positions I keep applying to as a chemical engineer.
Can anyone tell me how Georgia Tech ranks/is thought of for Computer Science? I know the article says "among the best", but I would rather ask HN.
Georgia Tech has an excellent reputation for engineering (and consequently CS, but I roam in different circles so no specific details), but I'm sure there are much more qualified people here to tell you the same thing. They are not Stanford or MIT– they're the ramblin' wreck! ;)
For arbitrary reference, they're ranked #10 by USN&WR: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-gradu...
For arbitrary reference, they're ranked #10 by USN&WR: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-gradu...
I too am happy about this. I received my BS in chemical engineering from Georgia Tech last year. I had a few friends in CS, and I can say the program is really top-notch and up-to-date. I really like chemical engineering, but I also really like CS, so maybe after graduate school I'll sign up for this program.
By the way, how is applying for software engineering positions as a chem eng. working out for you? I'm getting my PhD in chem eng. now from UT, and I am trying to find a job that when I graduate combines my love for both fields.
By the way, how is applying for software engineering positions as a chem eng. working out for you? I'm getting my PhD in chem eng. now from UT, and I am trying to find a job that when I graduate combines my love for both fields.
Heh, about as expected. I can get to the final interview no problem, but I always fail when they ask the "basic" technical questions, such as "How does a garbage collector work?" and "How would you populate a binary tree?". My one formal class of C wasn't enough to cover those topics.
However, I am enrolled in App Academy, so I can start doing web dev. My advice is to show you've taken at least an Algorithms/Data Structures course, that plus the skills you've picked up from programming on the side should be enough to get a junior dev position.
In terms of a job that combines both fields...the closest thing I know to a software person in ChemE is an Aspen Troubleshooter for Exxon. Personally, I want to do advanced controls and modeling/simulation. Can I shoot you an email? I might have a lead for you with Tesla.
However, I am enrolled in App Academy, so I can start doing web dev. My advice is to show you've taken at least an Algorithms/Data Structures course, that plus the skills you've picked up from programming on the side should be enough to get a junior dev position.
In terms of a job that combines both fields...the closest thing I know to a software person in ChemE is an Aspen Troubleshooter for Exxon. Personally, I want to do advanced controls and modeling/simulation. Can I shoot you an email? I might have a lead for you with Tesla.
Full disclosure, I'm a current Georgia Tech CS undergrad.
We've got one of the best undergrad CS programs in the world for a few reasons. First up, it's difficult. And I know everyone says that, but Georgia Tech is one of those schools where you come in expecting to easily coast like you have in high school, then you get hit by a bus by the workload and difficulty. The people here are easily the smartest people I've met, and everyone has to work hard.
We've got an awesome threads system, where you can pick your concentrations, and it really lets you specialize in undergrad.
From the people I've worked and collaborated with, I'd say in terms of CS knowledge we're comparable to Stanford and MIT. The biggest difference between MIT, Stanford and Tech is the entrepreneurial culture that Tech doesn't really have yet (and don't get me started on our administration).
We've got one of the best undergrad CS programs in the world for a few reasons. First up, it's difficult. And I know everyone says that, but Georgia Tech is one of those schools where you come in expecting to easily coast like you have in high school, then you get hit by a bus by the workload and difficulty. The people here are easily the smartest people I've met, and everyone has to work hard.
We've got an awesome threads system, where you can pick your concentrations, and it really lets you specialize in undergrad.
From the people I've worked and collaborated with, I'd say in terms of CS knowledge we're comparable to Stanford and MIT. The biggest difference between MIT, Stanford and Tech is the entrepreneurial culture that Tech doesn't really have yet (and don't get me started on our administration).
It usually ranks top 10 in CS for undergrad. It might be in top 5 for graduate school.
The robotics lab at GT's College of Computing is insane.
The robotics lab at GT's College of Computing is insane.
>The robotics lab at GT's College of Computing is insane.
Right there is one of several reasons where having physical access to College of Computing facilities (e.g. robotics labs) would help justify the cost of the full on-campus MS degree program, as differentiated from an OMS where you may only have remote access to a subset of CoC facilities (e.g. compute clusters).
EDIT: As per rsander's link posted in this thread[1] GT plans to go from 300 on-campus students to 10,000. Without a corresponding bump in facilities, it would seem that MS student projects would (naturally/obviously!) take priority over OMS projects. More specifically, OMS students may have to be resourceful with the money they're saving and rent/buy their own resources for computationally intensive projects.
[1] http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/05/14/georgia-tech-a...
Right there is one of several reasons where having physical access to College of Computing facilities (e.g. robotics labs) would help justify the cost of the full on-campus MS degree program, as differentiated from an OMS where you may only have remote access to a subset of CoC facilities (e.g. compute clusters).
EDIT: As per rsander's link posted in this thread[1] GT plans to go from 300 on-campus students to 10,000. Without a corresponding bump in facilities, it would seem that MS student projects would (naturally/obviously!) take priority over OMS projects. More specifically, OMS students may have to be resourceful with the money they're saving and rent/buy their own resources for computationally intensive projects.
[1] http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/05/14/georgia-tech-a...
What is AT&T allegedly bringing to the table? Are we assuming that there are people who want to work there, who will view this certification as advancing that goal, is that it?
I read the http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/faq/ , and found only this hint:
Why is AT&T the corporate collaborator for this initiative?
As a premier global communications company and a champion for innovation in education, AT&T will provide technology access, connectivity and products at inception, as well as evolving service and platform support. The company will serve on an advisory board and, where appropriate, offer corporate projects for credit, be a source from which Georgia Tech draws curriculum content and guest instructors and offer internship opportunities to select students. AT&T will tap into the program to train its own employees and will recruit graduates.
Technology access, connectivity, service and platform support? Aren't those basically solved problems for Udacity?
Advisory board? Does GaTech have corporate sponsorship on the advisory board of their other Master's programs, setting curriculum? (Maybe they should, maybe they shouldn't, but I doubt they think they need to.)
I read the http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/faq/ , and found only this hint:
Why is AT&T the corporate collaborator for this initiative?
As a premier global communications company and a champion for innovation in education, AT&T will provide technology access, connectivity and products at inception, as well as evolving service and platform support. The company will serve on an advisory board and, where appropriate, offer corporate projects for credit, be a source from which Georgia Tech draws curriculum content and guest instructors and offer internship opportunities to select students. AT&T will tap into the program to train its own employees and will recruit graduates.
Technology access, connectivity, service and platform support? Aren't those basically solved problems for Udacity?
Advisory board? Does GaTech have corporate sponsorship on the advisory board of their other Master's programs, setting curriculum? (Maybe they should, maybe they shouldn't, but I doubt they think they need to.)
I think the real reason you have AT&T involved is that without that sort of influence, this degree program wouldn't have happened until years later. Universities, and boards of regents, are deeply conservative, risk-averse institutions in some ways. There's also a lot of cost to startup a program like this, and public universities aren't exactly rolling in money right now.
Beyond that, a lot of companies have some kind of tuition assistance for graduate degrees, and a lot of companies are having trouble finding skilled talent to begin with. So it's a way to save money and improve recruiting.
The business models of companies like Udacity and Coursera are probably going to rely heavily on the hunger of companies the size of AT&T, Google, etc. for a steady supply of trained workers. Somebody's got to pay the bills and make the VCs rich.
I like to think of this as shifting part of the cost of the education from the individual to the company that's ultimately benefitting from it. Of course, one might worry about some unspecified negative influence from the corporate sponsors, but in this incredibly transparent educational environment, such influences would be pretty obvious and self-defeating.
Beyond that, a lot of companies have some kind of tuition assistance for graduate degrees, and a lot of companies are having trouble finding skilled talent to begin with. So it's a way to save money and improve recruiting.
The business models of companies like Udacity and Coursera are probably going to rely heavily on the hunger of companies the size of AT&T, Google, etc. for a steady supply of trained workers. Somebody's got to pay the bills and make the VCs rich.
I like to think of this as shifting part of the cost of the education from the individual to the company that's ultimately benefitting from it. Of course, one might worry about some unspecified negative influence from the corporate sponsors, but in this incredibly transparent educational environment, such influences would be pretty obvious and self-defeating.
Also, "AT&T will be the founding corporate collaborator of the program, contributing $2 million to the initiative..."
They say "AT&T hires about 30,000 employees a year" and that AT&T will provide projects for OMS CS students to work on, as well as internship and job opportunities. It also says they will be having some of their employees get the degree.
They say "AT&T hires about 30,000 employees a year" and that AT&T will provide projects for OMS CS students to work on, as well as internship and job opportunities. It also says they will be having some of their employees get the degree.
On one hand, I think it's ridiculously awesome that Tech's doing this. Our CoC department is incredibly innovative, and one of the only administrative departments that recognize the need for innovation.
However, I wonder if this would devalue a degree from Georgia Tech. You'd obviously have a lot more people taking the course than you would if it wasn't an MOOC. Thoughts?
However, I wonder if this would devalue a degree from Georgia Tech. You'd obviously have a lot more people taking the course than you would if it wasn't an MOOC. Thoughts?
It doesn't devalue the prestige of my degree but it devalues the thousands of dollars I've spent and the opportunity costs paid by not having a remote option. It's de-moralizing being midway through my degree knowing future students will not have my debt or be constrained geographically and temporally. It's like an externalization of costs where my debt will be used to frog hop the next class(es) ahead of me.
This is a fair complaint. The students from 1995-2020 will have paid over-market fees for their education. However, it is precisely because of this insane inflation and greed that MOOCs have become an option.
As someone who has suffered alongside you (though 6-8 years ago, when it wasn't so bad and scholarship money flowed a bit better), I feel your pain. But if I have overpaid for my education, knowing that I contributed in some small way towards the globalization/openness of post-secondary classwork was well worth the price.
As someone who has suffered alongside you (though 6-8 years ago, when it wasn't so bad and scholarship money flowed a bit better), I feel your pain. But if I have overpaid for my education, knowing that I contributed in some small way towards the globalization/openness of post-secondary classwork was well worth the price.
"devalues the thousands of dollars I've spent"... sunk costs fallacy
The word "devalue" comes up a lot in conversations about this sort of thing, but I'm not sure exactly how that works. If half the student body at GT died before graduating, would your degree be worth twice as much?
I think dilution is less of a concern than reduced rigor, which is a completely valid thing to worry about IMO.
I agree -- but we can't really know about that until the program's run for a while.
I think they made a pretty smart choice starting with a CS degree. The field is notoriously full of extremely talented autodidacts, whether because the material is more amenable to that approach or because those who learn it are more capable of doing so.
In any case, the attitude towards educational background in the field of CS/software engineering is already quite liberal and accepting. So there's less of a prejudice against this program than there would be for an online MS in many other fields. Now they just have to make it work.
Despite other comments about not staking their reputation on this degree -- and I agree that the "Online" part of the title seems like a hedge -- Georgia Tech takes its reputation extremely seriously. Smart people are staking their own personal reputations and careers on this program. This is something new and it may fail, but not because there is any intent to deliver a lesser education.
I think they made a pretty smart choice starting with a CS degree. The field is notoriously full of extremely talented autodidacts, whether because the material is more amenable to that approach or because those who learn it are more capable of doing so.
In any case, the attitude towards educational background in the field of CS/software engineering is already quite liberal and accepting. So there's less of a prejudice against this program than there would be for an online MS in many other fields. Now they just have to make it work.
Despite other comments about not staking their reputation on this degree -- and I agree that the "Online" part of the title seems like a hedge -- Georgia Tech takes its reputation extremely seriously. Smart people are staking their own personal reputations and careers on this program. This is something new and it may fail, but not because there is any intent to deliver a lesser education.
This is probably going to work like University of Maryland and their MBA program.
They have a MBA program at Smith School of Business that is offered at UMD @ College Park which is their primary school. Then there is the MBA from UMUC (University of Maryland University College). Two different types of MBA's (One is officially ranked and the other isn't), but has the University of Maryland name on it. If you are not from the DC Metro area or keep track of this, you could think that a UMUC MBA is the same thing as a MBA from Smith which is a Top 25 program.
This course will not help autodidacts, since a BS is required for enrolling.
This degree program doesn't allow people without a BS to get a graduate degree. I think it's wrong to say that having an entire Masters degree program from a highly respected institution online and accessible to everybody, everywhere for free doesn't help autodidacts.
The biggest impact for those who don't qualify for admission may be in advancing the legitimacy of online education, with or without a degree.
As an employer, the difference between an awarded MS and a certificate of completion in this program is not going to be that substantial to me. I'm going to interview both candidates to determine their level of knowledge and skill, and both indicators communicate the same educational background.
I expect a natural outgrowth of this sort of thing will be students providing access to his/her detailed course records as part of their resume. If I'm interested in hiring developers for machine learning applications, being able to read the code from those standardized, well-known assignments would be tremendously more useful in skill assessment than asking somebody to code FizzBuzz on the whiteboard and "riddle me this, batman: why are manhole covers round?"
The "GitHub account as resume" idea is an interesting trend, but they're not standardized and I don't have time to digest 20 unique projects in 20 different languages on 20 different frameworks to ferret out the non-boilerplate bits which may tell me something about the candidate.
The biggest impact for those who don't qualify for admission may be in advancing the legitimacy of online education, with or without a degree.
As an employer, the difference between an awarded MS and a certificate of completion in this program is not going to be that substantial to me. I'm going to interview both candidates to determine their level of knowledge and skill, and both indicators communicate the same educational background.
I expect a natural outgrowth of this sort of thing will be students providing access to his/her detailed course records as part of their resume. If I'm interested in hiring developers for machine learning applications, being able to read the code from those standardized, well-known assignments would be tremendously more useful in skill assessment than asking somebody to code FizzBuzz on the whiteboard and "riddle me this, batman: why are manhole covers round?"
The "GitHub account as resume" idea is an interesting trend, but they're not standardized and I don't have time to digest 20 unique projects in 20 different languages on 20 different frameworks to ferret out the non-boilerplate bits which may tell me something about the candidate.
Not twice as much but yes ... more valuable. This is well studied in agriculture and economics. When there is a bumper crop, farmers suffer.
Seems like it's explicitly designated "Online Masters" OMS as opposed to simply a regular degree you could complete online, so they're still separating it from the B&M degree.
While I feel like this is a step in the right direction for online education, the fact that this has the online designation plus its availability to a much, much wider audience seems like it would be a temporary setback in the eyes of employers.
While I feel like this is a step in the right direction for online education, the fact that this has the online designation plus its availability to a much, much wider audience seems like it would be a temporary setback in the eyes of employers.
I do wonder what the immigration repercussion of this is, too. I've often considered taking a Masters simply because it would make it easier for me to stay in the US.
From the Inside Higher Ed article I linked elsewhere:
> Galil and Bras both said they did not think the Udacity partnership would cannibalize its existing master’s degree program. They said the residential college experience would still appeal to students who are on a Ph.D. track, who want a full range of career services and who want visas to live in the United States while they study.
> Galil and Bras both said they did not think the Udacity partnership would cannibalize its existing master’s degree program. They said the residential college experience would still appeal to students who are on a Ph.D. track, who want a full range of career services and who want visas to live in the United States while they study.
Nice find. This adds more weight to the idea that the "online" designation was carefully thought out to avoid immigration quagmires.
Same here, I think it's a really easy way to devalue their degree unfortunately.
A Bachelor's would be easier to accept, but a Master's? I don't think people are ready for that yet.
A Bachelor's would be easier to accept, but a Master's? I don't think people are ready for that yet.
I actually disagree. Masters degrees are much more about just getting the knowledge than are bachelors degrees, which are more about signaling. Lots of very highly-ranked institutions have masters programs that are relatively "easy to get into" (compared to their undergraduate programs). E.g. Columbia, CMU, Penn, LSE, etc.
Agreed with rsanders. A bachelors carries a lot of other risks/requirements. It's definitely possible (and already available), but I think a masters in CS is perfect.
A masters requires a lot less courses, and you don't have to worry about general education requirements, which often involve a routine amount of writing and open-ended discussion (as opposed to a Q&A basis you'd likely find in STEM classes), or, for example, science courses that may require labs.
A masters requires a lot less courses, and you don't have to worry about general education requirements, which often involve a routine amount of writing and open-ended discussion (as opposed to a Q&A basis you'd likely find in STEM classes), or, for example, science courses that may require labs.
I think the Masters degree is an excellent place to start. MOOC-style education requires more of the student than traditional teaching formats. A lot of people don't have the necessary skills leaving high school, but they are likely to have developed them during the course of an undergraduate degree.
+1 This mirrors my thoughts exactly.
> Same here, I think it's a really easy way to devalue their degree unfortunately.
This only makes sense if you consider degrees to be collector's items. Maybe the problem is not with the degree.
This only makes sense if you consider degrees to be collector's items. Maybe the problem is not with the degree.
Are you living in a world where no one cares where you got your degree from?
Wow! As a Georgia Tech alumni with a MS from the College of Computing, I approve of this development!
I like this development. I went to GT for both bachelors and Masters but with BME and ECE, respectively. However, I am doing web development at a startup. I wonder how this OMS course would impact me and others in similar situations.
This is a great development. I'm proud of my alma mater for doing this, and I think Georgia Tech is just the right institution to pull it off (in partnership with Udacity, of course).
I take it this degree will be accredited by the same body that administers Georgia Tech. Has anyone heard otherwise?
From the FAQ: This program has been approved at every relevant level of the University System of Georgia, up to and including the Board of Regents.
I can ask about that (my wife works at GT PE), but this video implies a pretty strong equivalence. The relevant part is right at the beginning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihmiLx3Xlk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihmiLx3Xlk
It doesn't directly say that, though they do say it's a degree from an accredited institution, which is likely intended to mean the same thing.
I'm surprised they started with a masters, but I guess it makes sense. They are only targeting people who've already gone through an accredited degree program. Makes the program more likely to be taken seriously.
Udacity already issues credit for a fewer lower level classes via SJSU. I wonder how soon the gap will be closed and a whole online degree available.
Udacity already issues credit for a fewer lower level classes via SJSU. I wonder how soon the gap will be closed and a whole online degree available.
> They are only targeting people who've already gone through an accredited degree program. Makes the program more likely to be taken seriously.
I think not only that, but also allows the curriculum to be more focused. Likely they weren't prepared to throw in all the non-major related classes that typically go with an undergraduate degree. Its a great start.
I think not only that, but also allows the curriculum to be more focused. Likely they weren't prepared to throw in all the non-major related classes that typically go with an undergraduate degree. Its a great start.
I think you'll be surprised about what degrees are actually "accredited" and what ones are not. For example, UCSD, Princeton and Cal Tech do not have ABET accredited C{S,E} degrees.
Why would I care about ABET accreditation for a CS program? It's not like CS is a regulated field that requires a national standard. That would be like complaining that a schools History department isn't accredited.
For things like medicine, professional engineering, legal, etc... I care that those degrees are from accredited programs, but not CS. What I do care about is that the school itself is accredited and legally allowed to confer degrees.
For what it's worth: CalTech does have ABET accredited programs in Chemical, Mechanical, and Electrical engineering. So, they must not feel that ABET accreditation offers much for a CS program.
For things like medicine, professional engineering, legal, etc... I care that those degrees are from accredited programs, but not CS. What I do care about is that the school itself is accredited and legally allowed to confer degrees.
For what it's worth: CalTech does have ABET accredited programs in Chemical, Mechanical, and Electrical engineering. So, they must not feel that ABET accreditation offers much for a CS program.
Actually, both of you, it's "Caltech." One word, one capital letter.
Source: www.caltech.edu
Source: www.caltech.edu
I misread the FAQ, it's the institution and not the degree that they care is accredited.
> Why would I care about ABET accreditation for a CS program? I'm not sure why someone would care (some people do though). ABET does not offer accreditation to history departments (now there's a controversial idea). I found the fact that these institutions do not have them as an interesting curiosity.
> Why would I care about ABET accreditation for a CS program? I'm not sure why someone would care (some people do though). ABET does not offer accreditation to history departments (now there's a controversial idea). I found the fact that these institutions do not have them as an interesting curiosity.
The fact that they qualify it as an "online master of science" makes it significantly less attractive. It implies they're not willing to put their name & reputation behind its equivalency (in terms of rigor & qualifications of outgoing students) to an offline degree.
Yeah, I find that a little wishy-washy, too. I guess that's part of the buying decision you have to make -- are you willing to risk the lesser cachet for the convenience and affordability?
I'd do it in a second, but then I'm probably the target audience (other than not having completed my BS). I'm almost 40 years old, with a wife and child, and the flexibility is crucial to me. This isn't an alternative to a traditional MS program; the traditional MS just isn't even an option for me. I see it as a way to get credit for the MOOC work I'm already doing for fun and fulfillment.
I'd do it in a second, but then I'm probably the target audience (other than not having completed my BS). I'm almost 40 years old, with a wife and child, and the flexibility is crucial to me. This isn't an alternative to a traditional MS program; the traditional MS just isn't even an option for me. I see it as a way to get credit for the MOOC work I'm already doing for fun and fulfillment.
+1 to your points except the one about the "Online" in OMS being wishy-washy. I propose that this was not just a way to appease administrators, but is a pilot program that other institutions will be closely observing.
If institutions can persuade students to accept an Oxx designation (online prefix), then administrations are modelling that they can not only increase revenues based on free MOOC numbers, but simultaneously protect on-campus degree branding.
I am guessing that many online/distance-learning degrees are conferred without making it clear that the degree was earned in this way. Although this is great for students, I'm sure this causes angst in administrations for fear of brand dilution and obvious revenue threats.
The O-prefix would be a great experiment to see if it sticks. As rsanders said, this really appeals to a certain demographic (older, family/multiple jobs, flexibility, striking distance of employee tuition assistance programs, etc). I am part of that demographic and am sorely tempted to sign up.
One unintended benefit of reducing the cost of such degrees is that it will become (much?) more common for people to hold multiple graduate degrees, which may help offset the perceived 'weakness' of the O- designation.
If institutions can persuade students to accept an Oxx designation (online prefix), then administrations are modelling that they can not only increase revenues based on free MOOC numbers, but simultaneously protect on-campus degree branding.
I am guessing that many online/distance-learning degrees are conferred without making it clear that the degree was earned in this way. Although this is great for students, I'm sure this causes angst in administrations for fear of brand dilution and obvious revenue threats.
The O-prefix would be a great experiment to see if it sticks. As rsanders said, this really appeals to a certain demographic (older, family/multiple jobs, flexibility, striking distance of employee tuition assistance programs, etc). I am part of that demographic and am sorely tempted to sign up.
One unintended benefit of reducing the cost of such degrees is that it will become (much?) more common for people to hold multiple graduate degrees, which may help offset the perceived 'weakness' of the O- designation.
> I am guessing that many online/distance-learning degrees are conferred without making it clear that the degree was earned in this way. Although this is great for students, I'm sure this causes angst in administrations for fear of brand dilution and obvious revenue threats.
It also opens opportunities for smaller universities with decent programs to make a dent. My university recently did entirely away with the on-campus format for the degree I received since most students signed up for the online format (I did). My diploma does not say "Online" at all.
If the quality of instruction and coursework is alleged to be equivalent, why not put the full standing of the University's name behind it? To me, adding the caveat of "online" makes it seem like the school is admitting in advance that the degree isn't equivalent to "not-online" MSc degrees.
I wonder if, since this is accredited, the body that certifies Georgia Tech's offerings wouldn't agree to do it without an "online" tag. Though, if that were the case, I wonder how my university was able to change its MSc offering (not Computer Science, though) to entirely-online without adding that word since both GATech and my college are covered by the same body.
It also opens opportunities for smaller universities with decent programs to make a dent. My university recently did entirely away with the on-campus format for the degree I received since most students signed up for the online format (I did). My diploma does not say "Online" at all.
If the quality of instruction and coursework is alleged to be equivalent, why not put the full standing of the University's name behind it? To me, adding the caveat of "online" makes it seem like the school is admitting in advance that the degree isn't equivalent to "not-online" MSc degrees.
I wonder if, since this is accredited, the body that certifies Georgia Tech's offerings wouldn't agree to do it without an "online" tag. Though, if that were the case, I wonder how my university was able to change its MSc offering (not Computer Science, though) to entirely-online without adding that word since both GATech and my college are covered by the same body.
>>If the quality of instruction and coursework is alleged to be equivalent, why not put the full standing of the University's name behind it?
The quality of the lecture instruction and coursework is alleged to be equivalent, but maybe they are now trying to differentiate on other dimensions such as physical access to on-campus facilities, easier/more direct access to professors or more implied individual attention.
>>To me, adding the caveat of "online" makes it seem like the school is admitting in advance that the degree isn't equivalent to "not-online" MSc degrees.
That's exactly what they're stating in no uncertain terms -- the two degrees are not equal. The preference for students and smaller universities is to go with an undifferentiated designation, but GT is drawing a line in the sand with this specific online offering. Note that GT offers other distance-learning masters degrees without differentiation, but at much higher cost.
The reduced cost is their justification for the O- prefix.
>> I wonder how my university was able to change its MSc offering (not Computer Science, though) to entirely-online without adding that word since both GATech and my college are covered by the same body.
This is why I suggested that the O- prefix was a deliberate choice that other major universities will push to protect the high fees of on-campus degrees.
The quality of the lecture instruction and coursework is alleged to be equivalent, but maybe they are now trying to differentiate on other dimensions such as physical access to on-campus facilities, easier/more direct access to professors or more implied individual attention.
>>To me, adding the caveat of "online" makes it seem like the school is admitting in advance that the degree isn't equivalent to "not-online" MSc degrees.
That's exactly what they're stating in no uncertain terms -- the two degrees are not equal. The preference for students and smaller universities is to go with an undifferentiated designation, but GT is drawing a line in the sand with this specific online offering. Note that GT offers other distance-learning masters degrees without differentiation, but at much higher cost.
The reduced cost is their justification for the O- prefix.
>> I wonder how my university was able to change its MSc offering (not Computer Science, though) to entirely-online without adding that word since both GATech and my college are covered by the same body.
This is why I suggested that the O- prefix was a deliberate choice that other major universities will push to protect the high fees of on-campus degrees.
I'm surprised you interpret it that way. How else are they supposed to market it? All they're doing is being clear about the delivery platform. If they didn't say it was "online" how would you know it was online? The degree you receive will be identical to the one you'd receive in person. This is all that matters. Your degree will be the same, the classes taken will be the same, etc. Besides, studies have shown that employers actually highly value candidates from reputable online programs--because they have apparently discovered that candidates who have persisted in online programs are highly motivated. "Online" isn't a stigma these days.
I don't think the issue is with the marketing, but with the implication that the degree on paper will make this distinction too, creating a distinct potential stigma between an online degree and one received from attending a university directly.
This is a huge step in the right direction, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm disappointed about the BS in CS requirement. Plenty of people with BS degrees in other technical fields probably could pass a fair placement/entry examination given the chance.
Apparently you can try to apply with another kind of BS : "Formal admission into the OMS CS program will require a Bachelor of Science degree in computer science from an accredited institution, or a related Bachelor of Science degree with a possible need to take and pass remedial courses"
I wonder if you can get in with just a BA.
I imagine that it comes down to demonstrated (or expressed) ability, acumen, motivation, and interest.
But it depends on how heavily they lean on their heuristics. If you're interested I wouldn't let your fear that they won't accept BA's stop you from applying. I have a BS in Economics and am currently enrolled in a Master's in Computer Science. I mention that because I know there are plenty of BA in Economics programs around...and I can't imagine they differ that much from the program I graduated in.
But it depends on how heavily they lean on their heuristics. If you're interested I wouldn't let your fear that they won't accept BA's stop you from applying. I have a BS in Economics and am currently enrolled in a Master's in Computer Science. I mention that because I know there are plenty of BA in Economics programs around...and I can't imagine they differ that much from the program I graduated in.
BS Econ to BS CS is exceedingly common, though. Not so much for, say, East Asian Arts.
I am starting an MS in CS program in the fall (not at GT) and I just have a BA. They let me in, however I have to take a full academic year of remedial courses first[1]. I would imagine they will do something like that.
[1]Calculus 1 and 2, Intro to Programming, Data Structures, Foundations of CS, Intro to Computer Systems, Intro to Computer Organization, Algorithms and Data Structures, Structures of Programming Languages, Introduction to Finite Automata, Introduction to Operating Systems.
P.S. Anybody know where I can learn any of the above online cheap or free? If I learn it elsewhere I can test out of the classes.
[1]Calculus 1 and 2, Intro to Programming, Data Structures, Foundations of CS, Intro to Computer Systems, Intro to Computer Organization, Algorithms and Data Structures, Structures of Programming Languages, Introduction to Finite Automata, Introduction to Operating Systems.
P.S. Anybody know where I can learn any of the above online cheap or free? If I learn it elsewhere I can test out of the classes.
Have a look at MIT Open Courseware.
MIT OpenCourseWare.
http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm
http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm
Your local Community College might offer them online. I did most of my AS that way.
Most community colleges "CS" programs consist of IT courses, with a few CS courses mixed in. Which is a shame.
Indeed. Even within the same CC system it can vary. Mine had a lot that mapped directly to my university's (Intro to CS, Data Structures & Algorithms, Language/Topic specific courses - C# and MySQL for example). Meanwhile even the "technical" school in the same system had only two or three basic CS courses. My CC even has a real electronics program! (as opposed to the more common journeyman electrician and solar installer programs) Where theory and practice are taught!
As an undergraduate student, this makes me wonder if I should just hold off on getting a B.S. entirely until I can do it through Udacity.
How would this be valued by the Employers?
This is truly revolutionary. I can't wait for this show to get on the road. The FAQs don't mention a requirement of a GRE or other standardized exam for formal admission. Does anyone know if that is likely to change in future (I hope not)?
Apparently the GRE will not be a requirement. From http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/05/14/georgia-tech-a...:
> The second type of student will be “prospective degree-seeking” students who will be admitted to the program tentatively because they will not have to take the GRE as other applicants do. If they do well in two core classes, Georgia Tech will put them on the degree track. The university expects to enroll 2,000 such students in the next three years.
> The second type of student will be “prospective degree-seeking” students who will be admitted to the program tentatively because they will not have to take the GRE as other applicants do. If they do well in two core classes, Georgia Tech will put them on the degree track. The university expects to enroll 2,000 such students in the next three years.
I wish I'd had this article to post instead. It has some detailed information about the cost of a traditional MS in CS (the online version is "one sixth the cost"), revenue share with Udacity, admission requirements, and a lot more.
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/05/14/georgia-tech-and-udacity-roll-out-massive-new-low-cost-degree-programI'm so very happy about this. But I'm still wondering why they decided to launch a masters course as opposed to bachelor? And I hope they provide an option for people without bachelor degree take this course (perhaps with entrance test of some kind?).
I'm going to apply as soon as they open the gates. I've been "attending" a different, more average, online MS in Computer Science but find the thought of imminently affordable tuition and Georgia Tech quality very appealing.
what program are you currently in?
"At present, around 160,000 master’s degrees are bestowed in the United States every year in computer science and related subject disciplines"
Computer science is 7,426, so what are the other 152,574 degrees in?
Computer science is 7,426, so what are the other 152,574 degrees in?
Humanities? Now THOSE degrees are a waste of money.
"Do applicants need to take the GRE? No."
This is just great.
I would only be interested in this if I knew how an MS would improve my income, and I don't see how it would.
Gt alum here. Gt is a great school, but who says that is a forecast of how well an online class will be?
Online classes have been around for about a decade now. But i cant see how taking a class online from Georgia Tech aint gonna be different than taking an online class from another university.
The benefits of getting a CS degree at a university is gaining that physical connection with the professors. There isn't going to be a single thing these online classes will have that you wouldn't be able to find online yourself or at another online course at another institution.
But what you miss is the personal interaction with the professors and students - something you can't get from an online chat room. Especially at Masters level - where your interaction with professors is much closer.
This is a step in the wrong direction. If this was for a BS, I could understand. Especially because it gives access to those who don't have access to that education. But the real benefit of higher education is the personal connections IMO. There isn't really any additional "knowledge" CS pieces that is taught at MIT and not at a normal university. what separates universities is those personal connections with the faculty and the community.
At GT (I received a BS in Computational Media), the real value came from the people - individual connections that help pave your way through career choices and research topics.
I mean come on, what's next? PhD in CS with 3000 other students? Defending your thesis to a random professor thousands of miles away who you only have email contact?
Online classes have been around for about a decade now. But i cant see how taking a class online from Georgia Tech aint gonna be different than taking an online class from another university.
The benefits of getting a CS degree at a university is gaining that physical connection with the professors. There isn't going to be a single thing these online classes will have that you wouldn't be able to find online yourself or at another online course at another institution.
But what you miss is the personal interaction with the professors and students - something you can't get from an online chat room. Especially at Masters level - where your interaction with professors is much closer.
This is a step in the wrong direction. If this was for a BS, I could understand. Especially because it gives access to those who don't have access to that education. But the real benefit of higher education is the personal connections IMO. There isn't really any additional "knowledge" CS pieces that is taught at MIT and not at a normal university. what separates universities is those personal connections with the faculty and the community.
At GT (I received a BS in Computational Media), the real value came from the people - individual connections that help pave your way through career choices and research topics.
I mean come on, what's next? PhD in CS with 3000 other students? Defending your thesis to a random professor thousands of miles away who you only have email contact?
It's perfect for me. I also attended GT as an undergrad, but have since moved on with life, have a full time job and family, etc. I would love to interact on campus again, but it would hinder both my professional and personal life to do so. I don't plan on being in academia, but a MSCS degree will allow me more career opportunities. Online makes it easy for me to take the classes on a non-thesis track (which I'd be doing anyway, not planning to go into academia) at my own pace. Traditional grad school pace is not conducive to those living a full-time professional life.
I think what makes this more attractive than a simple distance education version of most masters degrees is the following: - Prestige of a decent school (but, USC Viterbi offers a distance degree along with others) - Low cost (can't get a fellowship or assistantship if working full time) - High standard for classes (still have to earn the degree) - Custom pace (my life's schedule no longer fits into semesters) - Being on the forefront of education (how cool to tell your grandkids you obtained one of the first OMS degrees?)
Interaction with people is only one of the many facets of a grad school course. For those intending to go the PhD route, absolutely go on campus, do research, network, etc. But don't assume that's what everybody needs.
I think what makes this more attractive than a simple distance education version of most masters degrees is the following: - Prestige of a decent school (but, USC Viterbi offers a distance degree along with others) - Low cost (can't get a fellowship or assistantship if working full time) - High standard for classes (still have to earn the degree) - Custom pace (my life's schedule no longer fits into semesters) - Being on the forefront of education (how cool to tell your grandkids you obtained one of the first OMS degrees?)
Interaction with people is only one of the many facets of a grad school course. For those intending to go the PhD route, absolutely go on campus, do research, network, etc. But don't assume that's what everybody needs.
I have to respectfully disagree with much of what you said. Just because it is from Georgia Tech doesn't mean the quality will be high. Georgia Tech is not the forefront of distance learning.
Believe it or not, online classes are completely different than regular classes. Being in an online class you simply work with the material you have.
There is nothing you will learn in an online masters class you couldn't find online elsewhere already. It is just an extended bachelors degree.
Your job prospects for having an Online Masters in CS from Georgia Tech will not change too much IMO. The way you will get the job you want is from connections - the kinds that you build while AT a university.
Most jobs that people get are from referrals. In most high skilled MS requiring jobs you have to INTERACT with people. You have to work together in teams. You have to have real world interactions. These are skills you don't obtain from an online masters class.
Believe it or not, online classes are completely different than regular classes. Being in an online class you simply work with the material you have.
There is nothing you will learn in an online masters class you couldn't find online elsewhere already. It is just an extended bachelors degree.
Your job prospects for having an Online Masters in CS from Georgia Tech will not change too much IMO. The way you will get the job you want is from connections - the kinds that you build while AT a university.
Most jobs that people get are from referrals. In most high skilled MS requiring jobs you have to INTERACT with people. You have to work together in teams. You have to have real world interactions. These are skills you don't obtain from an online masters class.
There's nothing I could learn from the Coursera compilers class I couldn't have learned from a $10 used textbook, and yet the Coursera class did make a huge difference. As Good Will Hunting sort of mis-stated it -- you can get access to a $150,000 education's worth of information for the cost of a library card and some late charges. Or, given Khan Academy and all the MOOC companies, with a cheap netbook and an Internet connection. None of that information may cross the book/brain barrier, of course.
This clearly isn't a completely replacement for the existing Masters program. Yet it's a huge improvement over a stack of dusty books, and possibly, in some cases, an improvement over a stack of "Certificates of Accomplishment" from non-accredited MOOCs.
I don't think this is necessarily aimed at people just exiting a BS program. It has a strong "professional" focus. If you haven't learned to interact with people fruitfully and work in teams in your professional life, you're at a disadvantage.
As I said elsewhere, I believe a program like this requires more of the student than a traditional degree. You have to bring greater discipline, the ability to learn without interaction with the instructor, and as you point out, an assortment of other skills that you have acquired on your own.
I do hope that online educators find some way to foster similarly valuable interaction between students on team projects as opposed to keeping everybody in individual solipsistic relationships with the course automaton. It's a challenging problem -- who wants to depend on somebody without any, or much, skin in the game? How would it even work with the flexible schedules this kind of thing will attract?
This clearly isn't a completely replacement for the existing Masters program. Yet it's a huge improvement over a stack of dusty books, and possibly, in some cases, an improvement over a stack of "Certificates of Accomplishment" from non-accredited MOOCs.
I don't think this is necessarily aimed at people just exiting a BS program. It has a strong "professional" focus. If you haven't learned to interact with people fruitfully and work in teams in your professional life, you're at a disadvantage.
As I said elsewhere, I believe a program like this requires more of the student than a traditional degree. You have to bring greater discipline, the ability to learn without interaction with the instructor, and as you point out, an assortment of other skills that you have acquired on your own.
I do hope that online educators find some way to foster similarly valuable interaction between students on team projects as opposed to keeping everybody in individual solipsistic relationships with the course automaton. It's a challenging problem -- who wants to depend on somebody without any, or much, skin in the game? How would it even work with the flexible schedules this kind of thing will attract?
I guess what I'm saying is that I do the professional networking stuff already. I'm at a point in my career where I do not need to get a referral from a professor or fellow student to get a job I'm interested in; I already have appropriate contacts in the relevant fields. I'm mainly talking about career path. I'm a Sr. Engineer/Project Manager now, but if I want to grow into a Principal engineering role or management I need an MS to speed things up. There are two ways to grow a career path; experience and education. I can wait twenty years until I naturally move up to that role, or I can get an MS (and other certifications) to prove my upward mobility and shave a few years off that.
So, as far as working together in teams, and real-world interactions, I have those in spades. I don't need that anymore. Were I to get an MS right after a BS, it'd be a different story. But 15 years in industry gives you that. I need the education itself: horizon expansion and prestige of the school name. That's it. And as far as information that comes from other people, I work around other engineers and people I already contact when I have issues. I estimate that there's not much in an MS non-thesis program that will truly challenge me at this point. Not in an arrogant way, just that industry experience does this for people.
GT may not yet be at the forefront of DL, but they're working closely with Udacity, which is. I will expect a quality program.
So, as far as working together in teams, and real-world interactions, I have those in spades. I don't need that anymore. Were I to get an MS right after a BS, it'd be a different story. But 15 years in industry gives you that. I need the education itself: horizon expansion and prestige of the school name. That's it. And as far as information that comes from other people, I work around other engineers and people I already contact when I have issues. I estimate that there's not much in an MS non-thesis program that will truly challenge me at this point. Not in an arrogant way, just that industry experience does this for people.
GT may not yet be at the forefront of DL, but they're working closely with Udacity, which is. I will expect a quality program.
I think you're missing the fact that most of the people who will take advantage of this already have a job, and thus already are networking. Heck, I bet there is a large portion of them that don't want to go to another company, but rather just move up within their current employer.
> Gt alum here. Gt is a great school, but who says that is a forecast of how well an online class will be?
Also GT alum here... GT is a great school, but frankly the online classes couldn't be worse than the in real life classes. I bet they'll even be taught by professors, rather than severely English-challenged TA's...
Also GT alum here... GT is a great school, but frankly the online classes couldn't be worse than the in real life classes. I bet they'll even be taught by professors, rather than severely English-challenged TA's...
The nice thing about this is the courses are free, so you can sample them or even take them all and do homeworks, before deciding whether you want to pay for credentialing.
I took a lot of grad classes (in CS and ECE). Not one was taught by a TA. Did you take grad classes, or were you and undergrad?
I was an undergrad. The couple of grad classes I took were indeed taught by an English-speaking professor, but the undergraduate classes were awful and left a bad taste in my mouth.
Some people benefit form personal contact, others don't. Don't assume your experience is the blueprint for everybody to follow. I got very little out of my college education from personal contact with professors.
For me, faculty connections were worthless. The real driving force behind my college education was the quality of my peers. They forced me to study extra hard and learn the material incredibly well to fight for an A. I suspect this will be the case for most people: if they're measured against a population with a high mean, then they'll be forced to work harder to keep up.
You have a point, but you are also missing the point. Quite a few people who could benefit from a formal Master's program in CS which is also from a competitive University, may not have the time due to career and family to attend classes full time. But this way they can still get their education
But that isn't what a masters degree is about. If you have a career and family to take care of and don't have time to go to classes, you probably don't have time to commit to a masters degree. And again there is no evidence that an online class from Georgia Tech would be any better than an online classes from anywhere else. Georgia Tech is reputable because of the faculty and research. How does that correlate to online classes?
I fit into that category, and I'm taking 1-2 significant MOOCs (compilers, ML, data science, etc.) at a time right now. I can just make it work, but I wouldn't if I had to show up for class. The fixed schedule format of Coursera adds a bit of pressure, but probably also a bit of motivation.
I agree that online classes from GT aren't guaranteed to be better than online classes from other places. Perhaps one day we'll see an a la carte degree offered by Udacity, so you can pick the courses from the universities or instructors you prefer.
That said, branding and standardization are important. Even if the classes are no better, the perceived value of the degree might be higher than one from Podunk State Online.
I agree that online classes from GT aren't guaranteed to be better than online classes from other places. Perhaps one day we'll see an a la carte degree offered by Udacity, so you can pick the courses from the universities or instructors you prefer.
That said, branding and standardization are important. Even if the classes are no better, the perceived value of the degree might be higher than one from Podunk State Online.
That I guess is the 7000$ question. Is the perceived value of an online masters class worth it?
Consider this question. How many employers do you know say, "Oh we hire Ga Tech grads all the time! They are great to work with" I hear that quite a lot around where I live. I think it is due to the culture that Georgia Tech has as well as the in person interaction.
Consider this question. How many employers do you know say, "Oh we hire Ga Tech grads all the time! They are great to work with" I hear that quite a lot around where I live. I think it is due to the culture that Georgia Tech has as well as the in person interaction.
I attended GT a long time ago (early 90's), so I might be out of date, but I wouldn't go far as to call it "culture". I kid, I kid! :-)
It's a notoriously demanding program. I hope they can adapt their "Take a look at the people to your left and right. One of you will not make it to graduation." scare speech/boast to the online format.
It's a notoriously demanding program. I hope they can adapt their "Take a look at the people to your left and right. One of you will not make it to graduation." scare speech/boast to the online format.
Hey bruv, another fellow alum from the engineering school.
I agree with your sentiment regarding the value of connections, and that's where the premium cost of on-campus MS programs comes in. But there is a clear value to getting a degree with a reputation and accreditation versus learning the same material independently.
Additionally, defending a thesis to a random professor thousands of miles away isn't far off from my real-world work environment. Worked for IBM and literally never met my manager during my tenure. Currently work at a firm with colleagues predominantly across the world and have to manage direct reports, solve problems, and build rapport all the same. Getting things done despite being remote is the direction.
I agree with your sentiment regarding the value of connections, and that's where the premium cost of on-campus MS programs comes in. But there is a clear value to getting a degree with a reputation and accreditation versus learning the same material independently.
Additionally, defending a thesis to a random professor thousands of miles away isn't far off from my real-world work environment. Worked for IBM and literally never met my manager during my tenure. Currently work at a firm with colleagues predominantly across the world and have to manage direct reports, solve problems, and build rapport all the same. Getting things done despite being remote is the direction.
Yes, I'd love to do PhD in CS from home, and defend the thesis with my slippers.
Kind of agree with this, while it would be great to get your CS masters at such low cost, you end up missing out on the personal interaction/lifelong connections with other students.
It would be nice if online students were able to go on campus or attend lectures as an option.
It would be nice if online students were able to go on campus or attend lectures as an option.
Rare sensible comment in this thread. Anything higher than a Bachelors online is self-defeating until widespread group chat at least minimizes the blow of no professors. Maybe one day with a partnership with Oculus Rift lol
I want to know if they allow transfer of graduate courses/units taken at another university (hopefully yes).
> We anticipate opening enrollment for matriculation during Fall 2014
My heart sank a little, I have been looking for something like this forever and was planning on applying today after I read the press release.
I joined the mailing list and may even contact the admissions office for the B&M College of Computing to see if there are any pilot programs I could apply to. I am currently in Tokyo for work and finding a decent place online to continue my education in computer science has been difficult. Just set aside $7,000 in a new checking account for the associated fees.
This is the most exciting thing I have seen on HN in a while, awesome time to be a Computer Scientist!
My heart sank a little, I have been looking for something like this forever and was planning on applying today after I read the press release.
I joined the mailing list and may even contact the admissions office for the B&M College of Computing to see if there are any pilot programs I could apply to. I am currently in Tokyo for work and finding a decent place online to continue my education in computer science has been difficult. Just set aside $7,000 in a new checking account for the associated fees.
This is the most exciting thing I have seen on HN in a while, awesome time to be a Computer Scientist!
This is a great start, but it seems to me that in the current environment (at least in the US) an MS CS is pretty redundant for students who already have a BS CS. Traditionally the MS CS has been more popular with prospective software engineers who lack a formal CS credential. Let's see how flexible Georgia Tech is on its admissions requirement of a "related Bachelor of Science degree."
I expect this program will be a big hit with non-US students who want a US credential.
I expect this program will be a big hit with non-US students who want a US credential.
Do i get a discount for being alum?
This is interesting, a lot to ponder. Will $7000 seem reasonable once hordes of graduates hit the market and commoditize the profession?
Or is CS a good fit for only a limited number of people, regardless of price?
It's fascinating that this field, which is difficult because it requires precision, lends itself so practically to automatic grading online.
As exciting as MOOCs are, will we be bound to use them in what's left of our free time just to keep up?
Or is CS a good fit for only a limited number of people, regardless of price?
It's fascinating that this field, which is difficult because it requires precision, lends itself so practically to automatic grading online.
As exciting as MOOCs are, will we be bound to use them in what's left of our free time just to keep up?
This would be more useful to US students than outside students. Although we can get high quality education, in the end people need jobs, may be high paying jobs and H1B is still big hurdle !
This all sounds really great and is definitely a step into the direction to make higher education more accessible - a few side notes (for those getting too excited)
(1) There have been quite a few online learning (aka distance learning) degree courses from reputable universities for some time. For MSc / Master degrees until recently they all required at least some in-person workshops (normally 1 week long - for a MSc in the UK afak 6-8 sometimes 12 weeks over 2 years). These workshops were there for the benefit of the students (networking, group work / access to profs in person, socializing, campus feeling etc.) and various other requirements (e.g. degree requirements). The outcome of these degree programs was normally the same degree that you would have received for taking all courses on campus.
(2) All universities that have offered online degrees without in-person workshops in the past differentiate / protect their higher priced and more strongly access-limited on-campus degrees by providing different degrees - GaTech does the same here - after successfully completing this course you will receive an OMS in CS from GaTech not a MS in CS from GaTech. It is to be seen if this will be received differently in the industry (as this was with such degrees in the past) or we finally are getting to a change here.
(3) The course will start Fall 2014. I would be surprised if EdX and/or Coursera will not soon announce something similar.
(4) From the FaQ it looks like ATT is sponsoring the course creation etc. with US$2M.
(1) There have been quite a few online learning (aka distance learning) degree courses from reputable universities for some time. For MSc / Master degrees until recently they all required at least some in-person workshops (normally 1 week long - for a MSc in the UK afak 6-8 sometimes 12 weeks over 2 years). These workshops were there for the benefit of the students (networking, group work / access to profs in person, socializing, campus feeling etc.) and various other requirements (e.g. degree requirements). The outcome of these degree programs was normally the same degree that you would have received for taking all courses on campus.
(2) All universities that have offered online degrees without in-person workshops in the past differentiate / protect their higher priced and more strongly access-limited on-campus degrees by providing different degrees - GaTech does the same here - after successfully completing this course you will receive an OMS in CS from GaTech not a MS in CS from GaTech. It is to be seen if this will be received differently in the industry (as this was with such degrees in the past) or we finally are getting to a change here.
(3) The course will start Fall 2014. I would be surprised if EdX and/or Coursera will not soon announce something similar.
(4) From the FaQ it looks like ATT is sponsoring the course creation etc. with US$2M.
University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign had an online Master's in CS as far back as 2001, I believe
you had to drive down to campus for tests, though
Georgia Tech already has a distance learning MS in CSE, but not a general MS CS. And I believe the cost is rather higher than this.
http://www.cseprograms.gatech.edu/distancelearning
http://www.cseprograms.gatech.edu/distancelearning
Now you can go to local places that proctor the test. A few co-workers are doing this now from Minneapolis, going to a community college to take the tests.
Also, it costs about $7k a year assuming you are taking one class a semester for 4.5 years.
Also, it costs about $7k a year assuming you are taking one class a semester for 4.5 years.
The following is the current admissions requirements from GT for there MSCS. I wonder how well this is going to translate for the OMS.
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/future/masters/mscs/admissions
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/future/masters/mscs/admissions
From http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/faq/
> How will you guarantee academic honesty?
> All exams are proctored using national proctoring standards. We have access to 4,500 physical proctoring facilities and are working with online proctoring institutions.
Does this mean it won't be available outside the US ("national proctoring standards")?
Or does this mean appearing at prometric-style centers for the tests? I for one do not love taking tests in the alien environment of such centers (especially computer-science related tests), from my experience with various certifications.
> How will you guarantee academic honesty?
> All exams are proctored using national proctoring standards. We have access to 4,500 physical proctoring facilities and are working with online proctoring institutions.
Does this mean it won't be available outside the US ("national proctoring standards")?
Or does this mean appearing at prometric-style centers for the tests? I for one do not love taking tests in the alien environment of such centers (especially computer-science related tests), from my experience with various certifications.
It's actually a dark day:
1) Until now, the majority of University-affiliated MOOCs have been free. This just changed.
2) I find it immensely frustrating that as CS people, we are lowering the bar for what it means to have a Masters degree in our field.
I'd be happy with this sort of activity if it was being done in all other fields uniformly and/or we had unions representing CS workers. Unions, in principal aren't bad ... they are possibly the only way to protect older workers for example. I used to love the CS field because it always felt like a truly meritocracy. As I get older, I realize it is not.
Let me make a third, controversial, and somewhat ungrounded statement:
3) MOOCs will kill CS research. Already CS research is in deep trouble. Exceedingly few private companies fund basic CS research. Academia was the last haven (if you can call it a haven - it was sad seeing the line of professors quitting their jobs to work for Google, and getting a pay raise and increase in respect for it). Govts exceedingly don't want to pay for basic research these days. Undergrad teaching used to be the way academics supported themselves. This is going the way of the dodo. But we are improving the lot of the CS undergrad you say! True .. but tell me what the poor grad student (who actually wants to get a PhD with the romantic notion of advancing the state of the art) going to do to support him/herself financially?
1) Until now, the majority of University-affiliated MOOCs have been free. This just changed.
2) I find it immensely frustrating that as CS people, we are lowering the bar for what it means to have a Masters degree in our field.
I'd be happy with this sort of activity if it was being done in all other fields uniformly and/or we had unions representing CS workers. Unions, in principal aren't bad ... they are possibly the only way to protect older workers for example. I used to love the CS field because it always felt like a truly meritocracy. As I get older, I realize it is not.
Let me make a third, controversial, and somewhat ungrounded statement:
3) MOOCs will kill CS research. Already CS research is in deep trouble. Exceedingly few private companies fund basic CS research. Academia was the last haven (if you can call it a haven - it was sad seeing the line of professors quitting their jobs to work for Google, and getting a pay raise and increase in respect for it). Govts exceedingly don't want to pay for basic research these days. Undergrad teaching used to be the way academics supported themselves. This is going the way of the dodo. But we are improving the lot of the CS undergrad you say! True .. but tell me what the poor grad student (who actually wants to get a PhD with the romantic notion of advancing the state of the art) going to do to support him/herself financially?
How do you know GT is lowering the bar? For all we know, they are sensitive to brand perception and are raising the bar - of work to be done, and expertise to be demonstrated, as opposed to butt-in-seat time.
This has no connection to CS research. Terminal MS students (in most disciplines, not just CS) are not on a research track anyway.
This has no connection to CS research. Terminal MS students (in most disciplines, not just CS) are not on a research track anyway.
First off, the MOOCs associated with this degree will still be free. The degree is not. The change here is that a) an entire MS worth of course material (and the systems to support it) from a respected institution are being created, b) the actual (O)MS degree just became a great deal less expensive.
It remains to be seen whether this lowers the bar or merely opens up more opportunities. I don't think education is a zero sum game. And while there may be a glut of PhDs, there is a shortage of employees with the advanced knowledge and skills in demand now. That's why e.g. AT&T is pushing this program.
While the union issue and age discrimination are interesting and important topics, CS graduates don't have a lot to complain about economically. The field has maintained high employment and excellent compensation during recent times when many other professions suffered greatly. Now, at 40 I don't expect to get funded by Y Combinator because I've almost certainly suffered crippling age-related innovation dementia, but there are plenty of employers that don't think that way.
There have been several articles posted here about the glut of PhDs versus available faculty positions. And actual instruction is a pretty small part of what full professors are expected to do. If you aren't pulling in research grants, your career is on a weak trajectory. So the problem was already there, and I don't think this seriously affects it one way or the other.
One might hope that making education available and practical to many more people at much lower costs might actually help advance the field, both within and without the ivory tower.
It remains to be seen whether this lowers the bar or merely opens up more opportunities. I don't think education is a zero sum game. And while there may be a glut of PhDs, there is a shortage of employees with the advanced knowledge and skills in demand now. That's why e.g. AT&T is pushing this program.
While the union issue and age discrimination are interesting and important topics, CS graduates don't have a lot to complain about economically. The field has maintained high employment and excellent compensation during recent times when many other professions suffered greatly. Now, at 40 I don't expect to get funded by Y Combinator because I've almost certainly suffered crippling age-related innovation dementia, but there are plenty of employers that don't think that way.
There have been several articles posted here about the glut of PhDs versus available faculty positions. And actual instruction is a pretty small part of what full professors are expected to do. If you aren't pulling in research grants, your career is on a weak trajectory. So the problem was already there, and I don't think this seriously affects it one way or the other.
One might hope that making education available and practical to many more people at much lower costs might actually help advance the field, both within and without the ivory tower.
You're right that many things about this experiment remain to be seen. You make some very good, optimistic arguments and I hope we get to that future. I fear we won't
I absolutely agree that education is not a zero sum game. I actually find it sad that most education has become about job training or making money. Whatever happened to curiosity and knowledge for its own sake? But let me not get into that debate. Degrees and credentialing might be zero-sum, however.
< actual instruction is a pretty small part of what full professors are expected to do.
Similarly, the majority of what students pay in tuition goes towards anything other than the salaries and funding of professors. Also, there is a big difference between top-10 schools which run based on a lot of grant money and smaller teaching institutions.
Look, I think I'm on the losing side of the wider argument. I am all for free access to knowledge. I'm just pointing out that we are likely shooting ourselves in the foot in the long-term.
< One might hope that making education available and practical to many more people at much lower costs might actually help advance the field, both within and without the ivory tower.
This is the best sentence in your response (upvoted you btw). I really hope so.
I absolutely agree that education is not a zero sum game. I actually find it sad that most education has become about job training or making money. Whatever happened to curiosity and knowledge for its own sake? But let me not get into that debate. Degrees and credentialing might be zero-sum, however.
< actual instruction is a pretty small part of what full professors are expected to do.
Similarly, the majority of what students pay in tuition goes towards anything other than the salaries and funding of professors. Also, there is a big difference between top-10 schools which run based on a lot of grant money and smaller teaching institutions.
Look, I think I'm on the losing side of the wider argument. I am all for free access to knowledge. I'm just pointing out that we are likely shooting ourselves in the foot in the long-term.
< One might hope that making education available and practical to many more people at much lower costs might actually help advance the field, both within and without the ivory tower.
This is the best sentence in your response (upvoted you btw). I really hope so.
The courses are still free, as per the announcement. However, to be on the actual degree track, you pay a nominal amount of money. I think this arrangement is quite reasonable. Information should be free; credentials should cost a bit.
I totally disagree. What this gives students is a choice.
> 1) Until now, the majority of University-affiliated MOOCs have been free. This just changed.
You can take a free MOOC or a paid one.
> 2) I find it immensely frustrating that as CS people, we are lowering the bar for what it means to have a Masters degree in our field.
This provides the opportunity for thousands of people to obtain there master's degree without wasting large sums of money on tuition and upending their life for a couple years. If helping thousands of people means "lowering the bar," then so be it. Learning isn't a competition.
> 3) MOOCs will kill CS research.
I think the real reason CS research is dying is because the business model of academia is outdated (which, incidentally, is what Udacity et al are trying to fix). If I could have gotten my BS online for $5000, there is no way I would have gone to a physical institution.
> Undergrad teaching used to be the way academics supported themselves.
Right, and now I'm happy I can actually pay for my education directly without paying ridiculous amounts of money just to subsidize an outdated system. To call this a "dark day" is a slap in the face to those who are trying to make education available to everyone.
> 1) Until now, the majority of University-affiliated MOOCs have been free. This just changed.
You can take a free MOOC or a paid one.
> 2) I find it immensely frustrating that as CS people, we are lowering the bar for what it means to have a Masters degree in our field.
This provides the opportunity for thousands of people to obtain there master's degree without wasting large sums of money on tuition and upending their life for a couple years. If helping thousands of people means "lowering the bar," then so be it. Learning isn't a competition.
> 3) MOOCs will kill CS research.
I think the real reason CS research is dying is because the business model of academia is outdated (which, incidentally, is what Udacity et al are trying to fix). If I could have gotten my BS online for $5000, there is no way I would have gone to a physical institution.
> Undergrad teaching used to be the way academics supported themselves.
Right, and now I'm happy I can actually pay for my education directly without paying ridiculous amounts of money just to subsidize an outdated system. To call this a "dark day" is a slap in the face to those who are trying to make education available to everyone.
Does anyone know Georgia Tech's CS MS curriculum?
It's described here: http://www.cc.gatech.edu/future/masters/mscs/program
The OMS won't initially have all the same courses (or specializations?), but the plan according to one of the GT videos is to reach approximate parity over time.
The OMS won't initially have all the same courses (or specializations?), but the plan according to one of the GT videos is to reach approximate parity over time.
Thanks.
I can't wait to hear more on the admission process. Will they require a certain GPA? Will they need recommendation letters (as they do now)?
I can't wait to hear more on the admission process. Will they require a certain GPA? Will they need recommendation letters (as they do now)?
I have a BBA, and would have hoped the requirements for the Masters course would have at least offered some way to let other majors apply. Limiting it to only BS majors will limit the participation of a large group of their current users.
I guess the next thing they need to add is a undergrad in CS or something else to help bridge the gap.
I guess the next thing they need to add is a undergrad in CS or something else to help bridge the gap.
We're in similar situations - I have a BA but would love to do a CS undergrad degree online. Most of the community college/online programs out there consist of IT courses with a few CS courses mixed in. Which is no where near the curriculum of a traditional CS program.
I really hope that someone offers an undergraduate CS degree online at some point.
I really hope that someone offers an undergraduate CS degree online at some point.
> How much does the degree program cost? We’re not yet ready to announce a specific program cost, but the plan is to offer the Georgia Tech OMS CS for a total cost of under $7,000—a fraction of the cost of Georgia Tech’s on-campus program and even less than that of comparable private universities.
> The total workload is the same as the residential program; the weekly or hourly workload depends on how quickly students wish to complete the program.
This is revolutionary.
Not only is it much cheaper, the incentives are now back in alignment. I know plenty of people that could graduate much faster and get on with their lives - The schools on the other hand, want them to stay longer (and thus pay more).
This removes the nickel and dime element and all kinds of backwards tedium.