Evils of the For Loop in Ruby(blog.grayproductions.net)
blog.grayproductions.net
Evils of the For Loop in Ruby
http://blog.grayproductions.net/articles/the_evils_of_the_for_loop
6 comments
This is interesting, but kind of besides the point. What makes "for" evil in Ruby code is that it's non-idiomatic. A custom block "iterator" covers every case where you might use "for", and more elegantly. In 116,000 lines of Ruby code in our "toolshed" directory, I count zero uses of it; almost none of it is web code, and all our developers are ex-Pythonistas.
I agree its non-idiomatic. But, I don't think being non-idiomatic is sufficient for something to be considered "evil". When something behaves in an inconsistent or unexpected way, then it starts to approach "evil" territory. Although the term is a little hyperbolic for my taste.
Definitely true. Unfortunately, Rails scaffolds and early Ruby programming books propagated this as an acceptable alternative to using iterators, and we're still feeling a bit of the pain from it now.
It's nice that James managed to dig up some technical reasons that extend beyond the idiomatic argument, as it may help push along those who aren't moved merely by the "It's not the Ruby way" argument.
It's nice that James managed to dig up some technical reasons that extend beyond the idiomatic argument, as it may help push along those who aren't moved merely by the "It's not the Ruby way" argument.
What about cases where you want to illustrate that the something being done is not "standard" -- to provide an extra hint.
Either way, there is at least one case where the custom block iterator doesn't cover the usage of "for" - where you need the variables outside the scope of the loop.
Either way, there is at least one case where the custom block iterator doesn't cover the usage of "for" - where you need the variables outside the scope of the loop.
Doesn't the same logic suggest marking "nonstandard" C code with "gotos"?
It's a good question, but I'd have to say: only if you equate "nonstandard" with "considered harmful."
Needless to say, I don't.
For one, there is a large difference between the spaghetti code that can result from liberal and injudicious goto usage vs. whatever you might encounter by using "for" instead of ".each"
In the goto case - we use it all the time under different names with special circumstances: method calls, loops, breaks, nexts, etc.
In the case of for vs. each - it depends. In some cases you may indeed be iterating over the contents of some object in particular. But what if you are iterating over the contents of two disparate objects? Should we use ".each" on one and keep a separate counter for the other?
And then, there are those times when you actually want the variables in the loop to be available outside the scope of the loop, as I mentioned in the previous comment. It might not be standard, but it does happen. One instance is where you are letting doing evals on variables introduced by the objects in the loop. That just can't happen with the .each call, and you need the "for" loop to do it.
And I would add, even if it were possible to keep track of that in a block we pass to #each, I would rather not do so because of the psychological implications of doing so. If I want to iterate over two disparate objects, I need a way of expressing that, and the "for" loop is it.
Needless to say, I don't.
For one, there is a large difference between the spaghetti code that can result from liberal and injudicious goto usage vs. whatever you might encounter by using "for" instead of ".each"
In the goto case - we use it all the time under different names with special circumstances: method calls, loops, breaks, nexts, etc.
In the case of for vs. each - it depends. In some cases you may indeed be iterating over the contents of some object in particular. But what if you are iterating over the contents of two disparate objects? Should we use ".each" on one and keep a separate counter for the other?
And then, there are those times when you actually want the variables in the loop to be available outside the scope of the loop, as I mentioned in the previous comment. It might not be standard, but it does happen. One instance is where you are letting doing evals on variables introduced by the objects in the loop. That just can't happen with the .each call, and you need the "for" loop to do it.
And I would add, even if it were possible to keep track of that in a block we pass to #each, I would rather not do so because of the psychological implications of doing so. If I want to iterate over two disparate objects, I need a way of expressing that, and the "for" loop is it.
It doesn't seem evil to me at all, it is exactly what I would expect.
I am not sure what programming language has the scoping rules he expects, but for me there's nothing to see here, moving along...
a = 1
for a in 1..2
b = a
end
p a
>> 2
I am not sure what programming language has the scoping rules he expects, but for me there's nothing to see here, moving along...
Ruby has block local scoping.
It's not the case where you set a beforehand that matters, but when you don't.
For example:
If you're not coming from Ruby, I can understand how reading the first part of this entry might make you think "what's the big deal", but if you read on, you'll see an extended version of what I've shown above.
It's the closures that make this issue complicated.
It's not the case where you set a beforehand that matters, but when you don't.
For example:
>> (1..2).each { |i| p i }
1
2
=> 1..2
>> i
NameError: undefined local variable or method `i'
>> for i in 1..2; p i; end
1
2
=> 1..2
>> i
=> 2
>> procs = []
=> []
>> (1..2).each { |i| procs << lambda { i } }
=> 1..2
>> procs.map { |e| e.call }
=> [1, 2]
>> procs2 = []
=> []
>> for i in 1..2; procs2 << lambda { i }; end
=> 1..2
>> procs2.map { |e| e.call }
=> [2, 2]
If you're not coming from Ruby, I can understand how reading the first part of this entry might make you think "what's the big deal", but if you read on, you'll see an extended version of what I've shown above.
It's the closures that make this issue complicated.
It's the Ruby 1.9 each implementation that seems confusing to me. I don't have a natural feeling about a new scope being created for local variables first referenced in that block. I am much more used to method, object, and class level scoping. In most of the simple Ruby code I write, you can tell the scope of a variable by looking at it's name. I can see where you might need the block scoping with closures, but I actually find the second example more logical. In the first example, I can't imagine which memory address would still be holding the 1, and what it's name would be. I can easily see how the value at i would be 2.
To me the following is highly surprising:
#assuming a is unbound at this point
for a in 1..2
b = 2
end
p a
>> 2
In most of the OO languages I've used, declaring a variable in a loop header scopes it to the method, not the loop.
for my $a (1..2) {
$b = 2;
}
print $a;
Block scope is very nice. Maybe I don't use enough other OO languages to really grok why you'd want it any other way. What's the benefit to having method rather than block scope in such a context? I don't remember hating not having block scope in Python when I switched for about three or four years, but I didn't really use it in Perl at that point either, so I might miss it now that I do.
I don't get it. Isn't `|i|` the shorthand version of a lambda binding an i? And `lambda { i }` a lambda not binding anything? So why is the result surprising? I must be missing something.
Edit: I mean in
And in
Edit: I mean in
each { |i| p i }
And in
for i in 1..3
p i
end
Isn't that what _all_ languages do with a for loop? Why should Ruby break the mold here?
So syntax is to blame once again...