How I Beat Depression(hackerhmb.tumblr.com)
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How I Beat Depression
http://hackerhmb.tumblr.com/post/45169323236/how-i-beat-depression
41 comments
In the UK the family doctor (GP) acts as a gatekeeper to other services. Thus, seeing your doctor is excellent advice for people in the UK who are depressed. Your general point - don't get the treatment from a regular doctor - is a good point.
In theory you should get a quick assessment, and then a referral to PCAT team (Primary Care Assessment and Treatment) - these people will either take you on for short form talking therapy (probably cognitive behaviour therapy) with possibly some medication; or they'll refer you on to a community team; or they'll send you back to the GP.
The doctor may skip the PCAT referral and send you straight to a community team. They'll do an assessment and either take you on, or send you back to the GP with advice for treatment.
If a community team take you on you'll get a care coordinator, a care plan, a consultant (psychiatrist), and access to different meds and different therapies. Frustratingly, you might not be allowed access to short form CBT while registered with a community team. If you need hospital you'll get hospital.
In an emergency the GP will just call the crisis team for you (in theory crisis teams are available to anyone who needs them at any time, but it's usually better to go though a GP unless the crisis team already know you). The crisis team will assess you for a stay in hospital (either informally (voluntarily) or under section of the MHA (detained against your will to protect your safety)).
Of course, that's the theory and often the practice differs.
And, you can avoid some of that process by getting a private psychotherapist. Look for BACP registration. (There are probably other good registration, but BACP is the one I know.)
About psychiatrist:
I've met lots of psychiatrists.
They've almost always been "odd".
To become a psychiatrist in the UK you need to do the regular medical school. That turns you from a medical student into a doctor. (But not a doctor that can practice unsupervised.) You then do Foundation Year One and FY Two. (This is practice, supervised, in hospitals etc.) You then become a registrar. Eventually you become a consultant in your chosen speciality, which gives you the power to practice unsupervised.
All of this means that you have great, up to date, in depth knowledge of modern treatments and medications. It also means you're a bit of a basket case to make it through that process. Your bedside manner is likely to be interesting.
I'd strongly recommend people avoid psychiatrists unless the illness is severe or resistant to other forms of treatment.
As always: I am not a doctor and I have no training and all of this is just my opinion and etc etc.
In theory you should get a quick assessment, and then a referral to PCAT team (Primary Care Assessment and Treatment) - these people will either take you on for short form talking therapy (probably cognitive behaviour therapy) with possibly some medication; or they'll refer you on to a community team; or they'll send you back to the GP.
The doctor may skip the PCAT referral and send you straight to a community team. They'll do an assessment and either take you on, or send you back to the GP with advice for treatment.
If a community team take you on you'll get a care coordinator, a care plan, a consultant (psychiatrist), and access to different meds and different therapies. Frustratingly, you might not be allowed access to short form CBT while registered with a community team. If you need hospital you'll get hospital.
In an emergency the GP will just call the crisis team for you (in theory crisis teams are available to anyone who needs them at any time, but it's usually better to go though a GP unless the crisis team already know you). The crisis team will assess you for a stay in hospital (either informally (voluntarily) or under section of the MHA (detained against your will to protect your safety)).
Of course, that's the theory and often the practice differs.
And, you can avoid some of that process by getting a private psychotherapist. Look for BACP registration. (There are probably other good registration, but BACP is the one I know.)
About psychiatrist:
I've met lots of psychiatrists.
They've almost always been "odd".
To become a psychiatrist in the UK you need to do the regular medical school. That turns you from a medical student into a doctor. (But not a doctor that can practice unsupervised.) You then do Foundation Year One and FY Two. (This is practice, supervised, in hospitals etc.) You then become a registrar. Eventually you become a consultant in your chosen speciality, which gives you the power to practice unsupervised.
All of this means that you have great, up to date, in depth knowledge of modern treatments and medications. It also means you're a bit of a basket case to make it through that process. Your bedside manner is likely to be interesting.
I'd strongly recommend people avoid psychiatrists unless the illness is severe or resistant to other forms of treatment.
As always: I am not a doctor and I have no training and all of this is just my opinion and etc etc.
psychiatrists can prescribe drugs like any other doctor because they have an md.
Exercise is incredibly important b/c of all the positive neurochemical effects it produces.
But if you're exercising by yourself, it's easy to skip it, especially if you're already feeling down.
It's better to take part in some kind of team or class activity where there's a little bit of social pressure to show up.
There will be mornings when you think, "I don't want to go, but I don't want to let those guys down," and so you wind up doing it.
But if you're exercising by yourself, it's easy to skip it, especially if you're already feeling down.
It's better to take part in some kind of team or class activity where there's a little bit of social pressure to show up.
There will be mornings when you think, "I don't want to go, but I don't want to let those guys down," and so you wind up doing it.
Exercise is almost never a bad idea. However, the evidence that it helps with depression has recently come under question: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120822-does-exercise-help-...
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Also, sell your car, and moved within range to bike to work. When exercise becomes locally optimal, it is hard to avoid it.
this is the biggest misconception when it comes to clinical depression... that you can or did beat it. You can never or will never beat clinical depression, only suppress it. Beating something is finite and means that it can never happen again. The author gives great advice in the article about what steps he did to suppress this bout of depression, though if he doesn't stay the course chances are it will come back. The scary thing about clinical depression is, even if you continue to do the things that worked in the past to suppress it, it can still come back.
The one piece of advice that he doesn't give (or he might have and i'm just not catching it) is realizing that you have to listen to the people around you when they tell you that you look depressed. At that point, you need to get help immediately so you don't fall further down the hole.
btw... I'm not a doctor or anything. Let's just say that I have extensive experience with clinical depression and bipolar disorder.
The one piece of advice that he doesn't give (or he might have and i'm just not catching it) is realizing that you have to listen to the people around you when they tell you that you look depressed. At that point, you need to get help immediately so you don't fall further down the hole.
btw... I'm not a doctor or anything. Let's just say that I have extensive experience with clinical depression and bipolar disorder.
> Beating something is finite and means that it can never happen again
Since when does beating an illness mean permanent immunity? You can beat cancer and have a recurrence. There's nothing in the definition of clinical depression saying that it's a permanent illness.
Since when does beating an illness mean permanent immunity? You can beat cancer and have a recurrence. There's nothing in the definition of clinical depression saying that it's a permanent illness.
I came here to say something similar - you do not "get over" clinical depression caused by a biochemical imbalance in your brain. It does not get fixed without making biochemical changes to your brain.
The advice the author gives is very sound advice (exercise, for example, does indeed induce biochemical changes in your brain), but without first becoming convinced of the advantages of getting treated, and taking the time to understand how those treatments effect you and how you need to actively participate in them, the rest of his suggestions are near impossible to follow through on.
The stigma around psychological and psychiatric care do not help the situation; however, the numerous stories on these issues here on HN I do hope shed some light on those that are still suffering without help to know that there always is a chance to get better, and it can be as easy as calling your doctor or telling your friend you need help. Or even talking to one of us here who have been suffering from depression and suicidal ideations for many years - I certainly would be more than happy to talk with anyone who is struggling with these issues.
The advice the author gives is very sound advice (exercise, for example, does indeed induce biochemical changes in your brain), but without first becoming convinced of the advantages of getting treated, and taking the time to understand how those treatments effect you and how you need to actively participate in them, the rest of his suggestions are near impossible to follow through on.
The stigma around psychological and psychiatric care do not help the situation; however, the numerous stories on these issues here on HN I do hope shed some light on those that are still suffering without help to know that there always is a chance to get better, and it can be as easy as calling your doctor or telling your friend you need help. Or even talking to one of us here who have been suffering from depression and suicidal ideations for many years - I certainly would be more than happy to talk with anyone who is struggling with these issues.
Except exercise _does_ make biochemical changes in the brain. One example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3311131/
I don't know why someone downvoted you, that's an excellent point. I think that in some subset of people currently requiring medication, some may be able to replace it with exercise to successfully treat it. I don't know about other people, but though I need both medication and exercise, the latter makes me feel discernibly much better. The medication just gets me out of bed and into my running shoes.
Yes, and I said exactly that. I do appreciate the link to the journal article though; I should have included that.
No, the biggest misconception when it comes to clinical depression is the belief that clinical depression is a disease rather than a set of symptoms, many of which are idiopathic. There has been some luck in treating depression with SSRIs, SNRIs, SNDRIs, etc. but the exact cause of depression is still unknown and differs from person to person.
That someone can not cure their depression is impossible to know without understanding the cause.
That someone can not cure their depression is impossible to know without understanding the cause.
There is no one type of clinical depression, and some types can successfully be treated with therapy. NB I certainly need medication and probably always will.
There are different shades of depression, some more manageable than others. I don't think medical science (or anyone) has figured out the worst of it yet. Author David Foster Wallace before his suicide: "The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."
Cognitive behavioral therapy is also very effective in many cases (and can work on its own without medication, depending on the situation).
I'm a huge fan of CBT. Recent studies have shown that if a person is dedicated to CBT it can actually have the same positive effects on the brain as medication, without the negative effects of medication.
It is important to note, however, that the person must commit.
It is important to note, however, that the person must commit.
and its also important to note that just because it worked for your buddy doesn't mean its going to work for you. it also means that just because it worked one time doesn't mean its going to work the next time. the best thing to do is to be monitored by a doctor so you can get the medical help right away if you need it.
If you are working with any competent professional they should be able to identify when you will need medical help right away.
There is a huge movement in north america to through drugs at everything. In Europe they take an entirely different approach on a lot of front and are seeing more success than us in those areas (ADD immediately comes to mind)
I'm not against medication, but I am against rushing to medication. I'd much rather someone try various forms of therapy first. CBT is just one of them, and happens to be working at a rate equal to or greater than prescription medication.
Edit: I wanted to thank you for the reply. Discussion surrounding the topic is critical to progression.
There is a huge movement in north america to through drugs at everything. In Europe they take an entirely different approach on a lot of front and are seeing more success than us in those areas (ADD immediately comes to mind)
I'm not against medication, but I am against rushing to medication. I'd much rather someone try various forms of therapy first. CBT is just one of them, and happens to be working at a rate equal to or greater than prescription medication.
Edit: I wanted to thank you for the reply. Discussion surrounding the topic is critical to progression.
`and can work on its own without medication, depending on the situation`
nail on the head! many people don't realize when they need to go to a doctor and get the meds they need.
nail on the head! many people don't realize when they need to go to a doctor and get the meds they need.
It can work on it's own, true, but it is more effective if used in combination with medication. [1]
Though CBT doesn't seem to be more effective compared to other types of therapy for treating depression. It is still better than no therapy. [2]
[1] Chan EK-H. Efficacy of cognitive-behavioral, pharmacological, and combined treatments of depression: A meta-analysis.
[2]Hoffman et al. The Efficacy of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy: A Review of Meta-analyses.
Though CBT doesn't seem to be more effective compared to other types of therapy for treating depression. It is still better than no therapy. [2]
[1] Chan EK-H. Efficacy of cognitive-behavioral, pharmacological, and combined treatments of depression: A meta-analysis.
[2]Hoffman et al. The Efficacy of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy: A Review of Meta-analyses.
Seconded. For people who are interested in DIY approaches, I recommend reading Seligman's Learned Optimism.
I am noticeably less depressed (dysthimic, really) than I used to be and Seligman's books were part of the difference.
I am noticeably less depressed (dysthimic, really) than I used to be and Seligman's books were part of the difference.
What if you're depressed because you're afraid of death?
(I wouldn't say I'm depressed -- not in the clinical sense anyway; but I do spend what I imagine is an abnormal amount of time thinking about it because of mother's passing away when I was younger).
(I wouldn't say I'm depressed -- not in the clinical sense anyway; but I do spend what I imagine is an abnormal amount of time thinking about it because of mother's passing away when I was younger).
Consider seeing a therapist. Seriously.
Most people have exposure to death when they are young, but for some people -- for whatever reason -- it's more traumatic. It can become corrosive, subtly or not so subtly, affecting the decisions you make in a harmful way. Personally, I had cancer at a young age, and for years it screwed up the way I saw the world, without me even recognizing it. It took another crisis-type event for me to recognize it. Trust me, if it is something you are already cognizant of, it's better to deal with it now to prevent future crises, then to wait until then.
Most people have exposure to death when they are young, but for some people -- for whatever reason -- it's more traumatic. It can become corrosive, subtly or not so subtly, affecting the decisions you make in a harmful way. Personally, I had cancer at a young age, and for years it screwed up the way I saw the world, without me even recognizing it. It took another crisis-type event for me to recognize it. Trust me, if it is something you are already cognizant of, it's better to deal with it now to prevent future crises, then to wait until then.
What if you're depressed because you're afraid of death?
In that case, you shouldn't take any advice from HN unless that advice is to talk to a professional.
It's a lot like legal advice, sure people on the internet can talk about the issues, but they're probably wrong and even if they're right it's still unwise to take what they say at face value. The people with the professional capacity to help you can't do it well online for all the obvious reasons.
In that case, you shouldn't take any advice from HN unless that advice is to talk to a professional.
It's a lot like legal advice, sure people on the internet can talk about the issues, but they're probably wrong and even if they're right it's still unwise to take what they say at face value. The people with the professional capacity to help you can't do it well online for all the obvious reasons.
That only partially makes sense. For comments/suggestions found on HN that have potential side effects, absolutely take them with a grain of salt and consult a professional... i.e. medication, psychedelics, etc.
But for some of the suggestions, the advice is fantastic. Exercise more? Eat healthier foods at regular intervals? Practice positive thinking about the world and your life? Any one of them could help. ALL of them could help. And they can't hurt. Take every piece of "no-strings-attached" advice you can... and then ALSO consult a professional.
But for some of the suggestions, the advice is fantastic. Exercise more? Eat healthier foods at regular intervals? Practice positive thinking about the world and your life? Any one of them could help. ALL of them could help. And they can't hurt. Take every piece of "no-strings-attached" advice you can... and then ALSO consult a professional.
It's like legal advice but only in so much as you should take it with a pinch of salt and consider talking to professionals. I disagree with "they're probably wrong", because unlike in legal matters, where there is a right and a wrong, in mental health topics it is all very subjective - not only in that two people (even two professionals) might disagree on the best treatment for one person, but in that different people will react differently to different options.
That sounds like anxiety to me?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety#Existential_anxiety
They can occur together too...
They can occur together too...
...
"Death is bad," said Harry, discarding wisdom for the sake of clear communication. "Very bad. Extremely bad. Being scared of death is like being scared of a great big monster with poisonous fangs. It actually makes a great deal of sense, and does not, in fact, indicate that you have a psychological problem."
...
"Death is bad," said Harry, discarding wisdom for the sake of clear communication. "Very bad. Extremely bad. Being scared of death is like being scared of a great big monster with poisonous fangs. It actually makes a great deal of sense, and does not, in fact, indicate that you have a psychological problem."
...
When you're about to bunjee jump off a bridge you should be scared. When you're walking down a dark road you probably should feel some fear.
But some people fear death all the time - they're sitting at home, watching tv, and they can feel their heart beating, and they think it's beating in a weird way, and that causes them to feel fear, which causes a bunch of physical reactions. Tense muscles, sweating, breathing changes; the person becomes aware of these and instead of ascribing them to fear they think these are the start of a heart attack. This causes even more fear and anxiety. Their heart is now hammering. They are "hyper aware" of their heart beat and breathing and sweating. They may well feel pain. This is not "in their head". It is real actual pain. It is the same pain that you would feel if someone punched you in the arm. They call an ambulance. They are taken to hospital.
In that situation no doctor is going to say "Don't be stupid, you're not having a heart attack" (because people do have heart attacks), so the doctor will strap the person to all sorts of machines.
But this doesn't relieve the anxiety. If anything, it just makes things worse. "They wouldn't spend all this money and time if it was just anxiety! I wouldn't be in hospital for this long if there was nothing wrong!"
And, when all the results come back negative that doesn't relieve anxiety either. "Oh God! It must be really serious, because they can't find it on their tests! Maybe it's cancer!"
Anxiety disorders quickly develop a strong grip on sufferers. Behaviours can be extraordinary. You only have to see the rituals that people with OCD go through to realise this.
But some people fear death all the time - they're sitting at home, watching tv, and they can feel their heart beating, and they think it's beating in a weird way, and that causes them to feel fear, which causes a bunch of physical reactions. Tense muscles, sweating, breathing changes; the person becomes aware of these and instead of ascribing them to fear they think these are the start of a heart attack. This causes even more fear and anxiety. Their heart is now hammering. They are "hyper aware" of their heart beat and breathing and sweating. They may well feel pain. This is not "in their head". It is real actual pain. It is the same pain that you would feel if someone punched you in the arm. They call an ambulance. They are taken to hospital.
In that situation no doctor is going to say "Don't be stupid, you're not having a heart attack" (because people do have heart attacks), so the doctor will strap the person to all sorts of machines.
But this doesn't relieve the anxiety. If anything, it just makes things worse. "They wouldn't spend all this money and time if it was just anxiety! I wouldn't be in hospital for this long if there was nothing wrong!"
And, when all the results come back negative that doesn't relieve anxiety either. "Oh God! It must be really serious, because they can't find it on their tests! Maybe it's cancer!"
Anxiety disorders quickly develop a strong grip on sufferers. Behaviours can be extraordinary. You only have to see the rituals that people with OCD go through to realise this.
Are you speaking from specific knowledge? I thought anxiety was a general physical symptom --- that your body response as though you are facing extreme stress, even when you aren't. I didn't think specific irrational fears where really relevant. (Maybe a fear of failure at work/school/flying-on-airplane-safely , economic colllapse, crime, etc). Or maybe it is the same as what you are saying....
Anxiety is normal and usually healthy.
An Anxiety disorder is neither normal nor healthy.
Anxiety disorders can be incredibly debilitating, causing considerable distress to people and being very disruptive.
Luckily, they often respond well to treatment.
Consider cognitive behaviour therapy - this can be applied by a therapist; or self applied by a book or website. "Mind over Mood" is a recommended book, but there are others just as good.
An Anxiety disorder is neither normal nor healthy.
Anxiety disorders can be incredibly debilitating, causing considerable distress to people and being very disruptive.
Luckily, they often respond well to treatment.
Consider cognitive behaviour therapy - this can be applied by a therapist; or self applied by a book or website. "Mind over Mood" is a recommended book, but there are others just as good.
what you describe is emotionally based, not chemically based. There is a HUGE difference.
That's a false dichotomy. Ultimately all thoughts / brain function rely on "chemicals". The idea of purely "chemical" mental distress is also severely strained - consider "there is a 0% chance your current feelings are influenced by your environment / past".
It's all a bit more of a spectrum.
There is serious money behind the chemical mental-distress-as-an-illness interpretation. If it's a medical problem then you need a medical solution. Anti-depressants anyone? They are being taken in such vast quantities they are starting to poison the water. [1]
[1] http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21882-antidepressants-...
It's all a bit more of a spectrum.
There is serious money behind the chemical mental-distress-as-an-illness interpretation. If it's a medical problem then you need a medical solution. Anti-depressants anyone? They are being taken in such vast quantities they are starting to poison the water. [1]
[1] http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21882-antidepressants-...
no... what you've saying is false. There is a HUGE difference in feeling sad about a traumatic or past event versus the chemicals in your brain not working properly.
also this conversation is about true clinical depression and the difference between it and just feeling sad; it's not about some conspiracy theory of how every doctor wants us to be on meds or the fact that flushing medication down the toilet is poising our water supply.
please stay on topic if you want to continue the converation
also this conversation is about true clinical depression and the difference between it and just feeling sad; it's not about some conspiracy theory of how every doctor wants us to be on meds or the fact that flushing medication down the toilet is poising our water supply.
please stay on topic if you want to continue the converation
It's a little brash to dismiss published evidence as a conspiracy theory. You may think it flawed but then please at least make an intelligent criticism.
Who gets to decide what is "feeling sad" with a cause and what is idiopathic "chemical malfunction". Care to offer any references? Objective diagnostics?
I included the bit about antidepressants to caution swallowing the prevailing medical model hook line and sinker with out pause for thought as to it's assumptions. Pretty sure that's on topic.
Who gets to decide what is "feeling sad" with a cause and what is idiopathic "chemical malfunction". Care to offer any references? Objective diagnostics?
I included the bit about antidepressants to caution swallowing the prevailing medical model hook line and sinker with out pause for thought as to it's assumptions. Pretty sure that's on topic.
its simple. if my wife doesn't take her medication she spirals down into a deep depression. it doesn't matter if she's at (what everyone would say) the happiest moments of her life, she's going to get depressed. now flip that when she's taking her meds, she is able to handle and snap out of it if things aren't going so well like any other normal person would. She still gets sad and feels bad, but _she gets over it_, where as if she's off her meds, _she doesn't_. i'm involved with this and see it on a daily basis.
But just because it's true for your wife doesn't mean it's unequivocally true for everyone else. You can't make that kind of sweeping statement.
Arguably emotion is just the perception of underlying chemicals. I agree, it's too difficult to separate the two, and it's hardly necessary for treatment. Add to this the fact that emotions can cause brain damage (it's called PTSD) and the two become impossible to separate.
So... there may not actually be a huge difference in feeling sad about trauma and chemical problems. Not all chemical problems are genetic.
So... there may not actually be a huge difference in feeling sad about trauma and chemical problems. Not all chemical problems are genetic.
Please stop.
You are promoting a stigmatising, out of date, notion of mental illness which is based on ignorance. You are suggesting (whether you know it or not) that some depression is "real" (and based on a chemical imbalance) and some depression is not real (and is not based on a chemical imbalance).
This is unhelpful, and potentially dangerous.
It leads people to think that medication is the only way to treat depression. Medication is not the only way to treat depression; medication alone is unlikely to be much use for long term resilience.
The "Chemical imbalance" model is too simple and has too many flaws to be much use.
You are promoting a stigmatising, out of date, notion of mental illness which is based on ignorance. You are suggesting (whether you know it or not) that some depression is "real" (and based on a chemical imbalance) and some depression is not real (and is not based on a chemical imbalance).
This is unhelpful, and potentially dangerous.
It leads people to think that medication is the only way to treat depression. Medication is not the only way to treat depression; medication alone is unlikely to be much use for long term resilience.
The "Chemical imbalance" model is too simple and has too many flaws to be much use.
There is only one guaranteed way to "lose" at life -- and that is to not play. Everythkng else has a chance of winning maybe, so try something.
You don't know everything. No one does. No one ever will. One thing I know is this: if you treat yourself right today, tomorrow will be better for you than if you don't.
Maybe tomorrow you will figure something out, so give yourself the best chance you can: have a good meal (without a lot of sugar or animal fat) , do 20 minutes of moderate to intense cardio exercise, turn off your computer at least 90 minutes before bed, take a shower, write down (on paper) whatever is troubling or busying your mind today, then get a good 8+ hours of sleep, and tomorrow, just pick one item from that paper list and do one little thing to make it a little better.
I promise that tomorrow will be at least a little better than today, and a little better is always better than worse.
Give people a reason to say, "That's XceleratesMom's kid. She sure did a great job with Xcelerate, even though she didn't get as much time as she deserved."
You don't know everything. No one does. No one ever will. One thing I know is this: if you treat yourself right today, tomorrow will be better for you than if you don't.
Maybe tomorrow you will figure something out, so give yourself the best chance you can: have a good meal (without a lot of sugar or animal fat) , do 20 minutes of moderate to intense cardio exercise, turn off your computer at least 90 minutes before bed, take a shower, write down (on paper) whatever is troubling or busying your mind today, then get a good 8+ hours of sleep, and tomorrow, just pick one item from that paper list and do one little thing to make it a little better.
I promise that tomorrow will be at least a little better than today, and a little better is always better than worse.
Give people a reason to say, "That's XceleratesMom's kid. She sure did a great job with Xcelerate, even though she didn't get as much time as she deserved."
I don't think one can actually beat depression but instead only really cope with the symptoms. I know that sounds awful and kind of defeatist (and I could be wrong) but I think the idea that you can actually conquer this disease sets you up for failure.
I first noticed my own depression when I was just a 13 year old kid and first sought help just before the end of high school. I've been through the entire range of emotion from hopelessness to being suicidal and through it all I was always most upset that I couldn't actually beat it. I would try and fight so hard to make it just go away permanently and be like "normal" people but it just never happened. I eventually took to self medicating and became a polydrug abusing heroin addict for about 5 years.
Five years later I realize that, for me, there is no "beating" it. There's just learning to cope with it. Before I realized this my main focus was trying to make the terrible way I felt just go away and to be happy. Now, rather than fight it, I work around it. I realize that a negative mood or feeling of worthlessness is not objectively true but instead just part of the sickness just like the author here says.
In addition to most of what this post talked about I would say the most important thing is knowledge of self. To recognize and realize that what you're experiencing at any given time is really a complete distortion of reality is step one to recovering. Then to know what triggers those thoughts and knowing what works best for you in terms of mitigating them is the ultimate goal (with the understanding, of course, that you may not be able to completely defeat the experience but certainly minimize it). I learned these things and now, five years later, I still have depression but it's not debilitating. Whenever it decides to come around I'm able to push it aside completely or mitigate those symptoms and I've been able to do that because I've built the kind of lifestyle where people rely on me and I'm often running from one activity to another. Some might say it sounds like running from the disease but really my busy lifestyle is what keeps it at bay. Rather than having the time to dwell on how awful life is and how worthless of a person I am, at worst I'll have thoughts like "shit, now I have to go do this thing and I totally suck at it and everyone hates me" which isn't exactly a great thought but certainly beats being alone thinking of killing yourself and when I finally reach my destination and do whatever I need to do I've proven to myself that whatever I was thinking before was just plain wrong. Again, that's a worst case scenario. I've gotten to a point now where thoughts like that are the minority thankfully.
So I'd just hope anyone else struggling with clinical depression is able to take a step back and evaluate their own thinking, understanding their own vulnerabilities and coping mechanisms in addition to seeking out lots of professional help (and yeah, exercising is amazing for this disease).
I first noticed my own depression when I was just a 13 year old kid and first sought help just before the end of high school. I've been through the entire range of emotion from hopelessness to being suicidal and through it all I was always most upset that I couldn't actually beat it. I would try and fight so hard to make it just go away permanently and be like "normal" people but it just never happened. I eventually took to self medicating and became a polydrug abusing heroin addict for about 5 years.
Five years later I realize that, for me, there is no "beating" it. There's just learning to cope with it. Before I realized this my main focus was trying to make the terrible way I felt just go away and to be happy. Now, rather than fight it, I work around it. I realize that a negative mood or feeling of worthlessness is not objectively true but instead just part of the sickness just like the author here says.
In addition to most of what this post talked about I would say the most important thing is knowledge of self. To recognize and realize that what you're experiencing at any given time is really a complete distortion of reality is step one to recovering. Then to know what triggers those thoughts and knowing what works best for you in terms of mitigating them is the ultimate goal (with the understanding, of course, that you may not be able to completely defeat the experience but certainly minimize it). I learned these things and now, five years later, I still have depression but it's not debilitating. Whenever it decides to come around I'm able to push it aside completely or mitigate those symptoms and I've been able to do that because I've built the kind of lifestyle where people rely on me and I'm often running from one activity to another. Some might say it sounds like running from the disease but really my busy lifestyle is what keeps it at bay. Rather than having the time to dwell on how awful life is and how worthless of a person I am, at worst I'll have thoughts like "shit, now I have to go do this thing and I totally suck at it and everyone hates me" which isn't exactly a great thought but certainly beats being alone thinking of killing yourself and when I finally reach my destination and do whatever I need to do I've proven to myself that whatever I was thinking before was just plain wrong. Again, that's a worst case scenario. I've gotten to a point now where thoughts like that are the minority thankfully.
So I'd just hope anyone else struggling with clinical depression is able to take a step back and evaluate their own thinking, understanding their own vulnerabilities and coping mechanisms in addition to seeking out lots of professional help (and yeah, exercising is amazing for this disease).
Why is this nonsense the top comment? How can you, from your study of a cohort of one, assert that no one can beat depression because you haven't? That's a potentially fatal message you're sending, and it's based solely on your own experiences.
People get depressed for all sorts of reasons. It's bad enough that some doctors would lump the majority of patients as being clinically depressed and prescribe drugs that may end up doing more harm than good (note: I'm not saying all drugs are bad, but they're not always prescribed correctly). Now we're saying your fate is sealed, you just have to manage for the rest of your life.
Edit: I don't even know if "beat" is the right word to use, it suggests that a patient is at fault if he/she hasn't been able to "beat" the illness, which is just wrong. But two things: (1) not all depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, or at the very least, there are multiple causes from life stressors to physical illnesses (2) if depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, I don't know of any study that says chemical imbalances can't be reversed.
People get depressed for all sorts of reasons. It's bad enough that some doctors would lump the majority of patients as being clinically depressed and prescribe drugs that may end up doing more harm than good (note: I'm not saying all drugs are bad, but they're not always prescribed correctly). Now we're saying your fate is sealed, you just have to manage for the rest of your life.
Edit: I don't even know if "beat" is the right word to use, it suggests that a patient is at fault if he/she hasn't been able to "beat" the illness, which is just wrong. But two things: (1) not all depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, or at the very least, there are multiple causes from life stressors to physical illnesses (2) if depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, I don't know of any study that says chemical imbalances can't be reversed.
> I don't even know if "beat" is the right word to use
I might be in some cases.
While it doesn't work for all people, I would say that I have "beat" my own depression-related illness (Panic Disorder) through a standard psychological regime called Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT). Basically you learn about the mental instincts which are leading you into vicious circles and train yourself to avoid getting into trouble to begin with.
If you can gain control of these instincts (not all people can) you can literally stop depressive spectrum disorders this way (although I'll point out: Panic Disorder is one of the most responsive depressive disorders to CBT).
> not all depression is caused by a chemical imbalance
The essence of somatic conditions like depression is that your brain controls your hormonal and neurotransmitter homeostasis -- even if you're not always aware that it's doing so. If you change your brains habits, you change your chemical levels.
I might be in some cases.
While it doesn't work for all people, I would say that I have "beat" my own depression-related illness (Panic Disorder) through a standard psychological regime called Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT). Basically you learn about the mental instincts which are leading you into vicious circles and train yourself to avoid getting into trouble to begin with.
If you can gain control of these instincts (not all people can) you can literally stop depressive spectrum disorders this way (although I'll point out: Panic Disorder is one of the most responsive depressive disorders to CBT).
> not all depression is caused by a chemical imbalance
The essence of somatic conditions like depression is that your brain controls your hormonal and neurotransmitter homeostasis -- even if you're not always aware that it's doing so. If you change your brains habits, you change your chemical levels.
Your edit is why this nonsense is the top comment. Because beat is not the right word and gives the impression that the patient is at fault among other things I go into. My message isn't fatal at all. It's hopeful. I said nothing negative. All I'm saying is that to believe you've beaten depression is a dangerous thing not that there's no hope for anyone who's depressed.
People try to beat cancer too, with medical help, but it is known not to be their fault.
Both in your reply and in the original article, I wish there had been more attention paid to the value of talk therapy in some cases. While it may be true that for some depression originates as a chemical imbalance in the brain, I think for many or even most, it originates from psychological pain.
Therapy can and does routinely help provide lasting help with depression. I don't know what "beating it" means but some people can definitely become free of the symptoms of major depression without taking any medication or exercising or any of the other things listed by discovering the sources of their feelings and confronting them with the help of a therapist.
Therapy can and does routinely help provide lasting help with depression. I don't know what "beating it" means but some people can definitely become free of the symptoms of major depression without taking any medication or exercising or any of the other things listed by discovering the sources of their feelings and confronting them with the help of a therapist.
I believe it is a chemical balance, which requires chemical intervention.
Depression seems to be defined (or at least is talked about like) a set of symptoms. As far as I can see, it's like the observed state of data corruption: there are many, many things that can cause that, some being an order of magnitude easier to fix than others.
Sometimes people feel horrible for a real reason, but don't know why. It would be foolish to medicate that away.
Sometimes people feel horrible for a real reason, but don't know why. It would be foolish to medicate that away.
What if the chemical imbalance is a symptom of depression, and not the cause?
I've been stuck at that stage of thinking as well, and after many data points that got shunted aside. Currently the most interesting and fun counter point to it I am using is that its not just "mind", but a mind-body issue.
There are many ways in which your body function influences and alters mood and perception, and vice-versa.
Talk therapy goes the other way too, it has the potential to alter the equation, provided other things are done as well.
There are many ways in which your body function influences and alters mood and perception, and vice-versa.
Talk therapy goes the other way too, it has the potential to alter the equation, provided other things are done as well.
Going to back that up at all? I believe in unicorns, by the way.
Obviously brain chemistry is involved (reduced serotonin, etc.), but I'm sure I could adjust your brain chemistry by jumping out at you and saying boo too; so I don't it follows that chemical intervention is the only approach that will change your brain chemistry.
I think antidepressants are very important and a great tool if you are suffering from severe depression, but I don't think they are the only answer nor a long-term solution, alone.
As an e.g. a metastudy on CBT - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027273580... - indicates that it is both effective and superior to antidepressants alone.
Given the nature of depression, which really muddles your mind clear advice is vital - go see your doctor, get onto antidepressants (you don't have to be on them forever), get onto a form of therapy. The shit works.
Obviously brain chemistry is involved (reduced serotonin, etc.), but I'm sure I could adjust your brain chemistry by jumping out at you and saying boo too; so I don't it follows that chemical intervention is the only approach that will change your brain chemistry.
I think antidepressants are very important and a great tool if you are suffering from severe depression, but I don't think they are the only answer nor a long-term solution, alone.
As an e.g. a metastudy on CBT - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027273580... - indicates that it is both effective and superior to antidepressants alone.
Given the nature of depression, which really muddles your mind clear advice is vital - go see your doctor, get onto antidepressants (you don't have to be on them forever), get onto a form of therapy. The shit works.
Exercise is a chemical intervention. It is not a panacea and it will take time, typically weeks before it has a significant effect, but it does have an effect. The body is the temple of the soul, you should not ignore either.
Chemical imbalance just means a chemical level associated with feeling bad. Which is also what psychological pain is. So you will you need to be more specific if you want to differentiate.
I would say that depression is like alcoholism: You never stop being an alcoholic, but you can stop drinking. Even a dry alcoholic has troubles with alcohol, and may need to struggle with that, even though they are successful in containing their affliction.
Similarly, some people will always be susceptible to depression (I coin the term "depressives"). But, like an alcoholic can learn how to stop themselves from drinking, a depressive can learn how to prevent themselves from sinking into an actual episode of depression. There is always an underlying condition that never goes away: in alcoholism it's a compulsion, while in depression it's... something else. But the struggle to contain that condition goes from being a lost battle, to occasional temporary victories, to a day-to-day thing, until eventually it's just a thing.
So, you can't beat depression in the sense of winning a final victory and then it's gone forever. A depressive will always be a depressive, even when not in the middle of an episode of depression (and there's more to that than just sometimes becoming depressed--and not all of it is bad!). But, it can be possible to manage it to the point where it is effectively and indefinitely contained.
Similarly, some people will always be susceptible to depression (I coin the term "depressives"). But, like an alcoholic can learn how to stop themselves from drinking, a depressive can learn how to prevent themselves from sinking into an actual episode of depression. There is always an underlying condition that never goes away: in alcoholism it's a compulsion, while in depression it's... something else. But the struggle to contain that condition goes from being a lost battle, to occasional temporary victories, to a day-to-day thing, until eventually it's just a thing.
So, you can't beat depression in the sense of winning a final victory and then it's gone forever. A depressive will always be a depressive, even when not in the middle of an episode of depression (and there's more to that than just sometimes becoming depressed--and not all of it is bad!). But, it can be possible to manage it to the point where it is effectively and indefinitely contained.
"Depressive" is a standard term, so you made a good choice.
I'd like to second this comment. Depression as a syndrome is something that segments of the population have varying levels of susceptibility. Part of the "cure" is learning to distinguish when you are exhibiting the symptoms of depression and can get to help.
I suffered with depression for 20 years. A combination of drug and talk therapy helped me tremendously. After a couple of years, I can now recognize the symptoms of depressive thinking and engage in strategies to get to a better way of thinking.
I suffered with depression for 20 years. A combination of drug and talk therapy helped me tremendously. After a couple of years, I can now recognize the symptoms of depressive thinking and engage in strategies to get to a better way of thinking.
I've suffered from MDD and tried to kill myself several times, the last attempt was very serious and I almost did die.
Now, almost a decade later and I think I can say I have "beaten" depression. The cure? Time, therapy, loving intimate relationships and judicious use of psychedelics.
Now, almost a decade later and I think I can say I have "beaten" depression. The cure? Time, therapy, loving intimate relationships and judicious use of psychedelics.
I can't say you haven't beaten depression because I just don't know you but for me believing that I've beaten it is dangerous. It's the same kind of logic behind why addicts say they're recovering and not recovered. The disease is still there and can show itself at any time but for now it's in "remission" I suppose you could say.
A lot of people feel like admitting they can't beat depression is a sign of weakness and that if you "beat" it or become "cured" of it that that's somehow a badge of honor. I don't feel that way. I think admitting you can't truly beat this and knowing your limits is the smartest and bravest thing a person can do. I know that if something were to happen and I fell into my old depression again I'd certainly feel even worse after having thought I'd beaten it. Even if I were to say I beat it today while I'm feeling good, that would be a lie. I haven't beaten it. It's still there. I feel it. It wants to consume me all the time but I don't allow it to right now. It hangs on to me every single day, even on days like today when I'm feeling good. The only difference between depressed me and "cured" me is how I deal with it. I'm sure this would be impossible to understand for someone who's never experience depression but even though I struggle with depression every day of my life, I'm not depressed. And that has everything to do with how I've learned to deal with it - I just kind of work around it and don't feed it.
Like I said, I can't and I'm not saying you haven't beaten it. I just can't understand how anyone can really beat it at least not with my understanding of the word "beat" I suppose.
A lot of people feel like admitting they can't beat depression is a sign of weakness and that if you "beat" it or become "cured" of it that that's somehow a badge of honor. I don't feel that way. I think admitting you can't truly beat this and knowing your limits is the smartest and bravest thing a person can do. I know that if something were to happen and I fell into my old depression again I'd certainly feel even worse after having thought I'd beaten it. Even if I were to say I beat it today while I'm feeling good, that would be a lie. I haven't beaten it. It's still there. I feel it. It wants to consume me all the time but I don't allow it to right now. It hangs on to me every single day, even on days like today when I'm feeling good. The only difference between depressed me and "cured" me is how I deal with it. I'm sure this would be impossible to understand for someone who's never experience depression but even though I struggle with depression every day of my life, I'm not depressed. And that has everything to do with how I've learned to deal with it - I just kind of work around it and don't feed it.
Like I said, I can't and I'm not saying you haven't beaten it. I just can't understand how anyone can really beat it at least not with my understanding of the word "beat" I suppose.
"but for me believing that I've beaten it is dangerous".
Is it really that dangerous? Does 'beating' it mean you forget how to cope?
I don't know your situation, but I would strongly advise contemplating the truth that lies behind self-fulfilling prophecies. As Confucius put it “He who who says he can and he who says he can’t are both usually right”. I'm not trying to condense the issue into a soundbite, but rather illustrate that being open to the possibility that you can beat it might mean you can actually beat it.
I truly wish you well.
I don't know your situation, but I would strongly advise contemplating the truth that lies behind self-fulfilling prophecies. As Confucius put it “He who who says he can and he who says he can’t are both usually right”. I'm not trying to condense the issue into a soundbite, but rather illustrate that being open to the possibility that you can beat it might mean you can actually beat it.
I truly wish you well.
Short answer: yes.
Long answer, think of it like an addict. They always called themselves 'recovering' because they know it only takes a single slip to set you back. Same with Depression. You can be fine for years, become lax in your coping mechanisms and handlers and something small happens that sets off a chain reaction where you are reaching for things you wouldn't normally reach for.
One innocent comments or look or phrase that slips past your carefully built safeguards is all it can take sometimes.
Long answer, think of it like an addict. They always called themselves 'recovering' because they know it only takes a single slip to set you back. Same with Depression. You can be fine for years, become lax in your coping mechanisms and handlers and something small happens that sets off a chain reaction where you are reaching for things you wouldn't normally reach for.
One innocent comments or look or phrase that slips past your carefully built safeguards is all it can take sometimes.
Thank you for your feedback adeaver.
I do understand the addict analogy, but in both cases I'd say the solution was the same... perhaps the issue is ongoing because the root cause of the problem is still there?
The triggers that set people off into addiction/depression are what separate those that are susceptible to those behaviours to those that are resilient to them. What are those triggers? What links them? What actions can be taken to reduce or remove their potency (taking the time to remember you always have choices to delay a reaction may help here)? These might be questions to explore with assistance from others.
Of course it's fantastic to have greater control over the symptoms of addiction or depression, and I in no way wish to diminish that achievement, I've worked on breaking a few (admittedly mild) addictions before and so do have a little understanding of the processes that addicts go through. So I hope you appreciate that I see 'recovering' as a great achievement.
Perhaps the 'beat' word sounds too absolute, too final... I personally would not say 'beating depression' means you have reached a perfect state of happiness, but rather that the triggers that held your recovery back no longer hold you back, so you are free to get better. Perfect is the enemy of the good, be happy that you are doing good. :-)
I do understand the addict analogy, but in both cases I'd say the solution was the same... perhaps the issue is ongoing because the root cause of the problem is still there?
The triggers that set people off into addiction/depression are what separate those that are susceptible to those behaviours to those that are resilient to them. What are those triggers? What links them? What actions can be taken to reduce or remove their potency (taking the time to remember you always have choices to delay a reaction may help here)? These might be questions to explore with assistance from others.
Of course it's fantastic to have greater control over the symptoms of addiction or depression, and I in no way wish to diminish that achievement, I've worked on breaking a few (admittedly mild) addictions before and so do have a little understanding of the processes that addicts go through. So I hope you appreciate that I see 'recovering' as a great achievement.
Perhaps the 'beat' word sounds too absolute, too final... I personally would not say 'beating depression' means you have reached a perfect state of happiness, but rather that the triggers that held your recovery back no longer hold you back, so you are free to get better. Perfect is the enemy of the good, be happy that you are doing good. :-)
Yes. I had high cholesterol. I made lifestyle changes. I have low cholesterol now. Did I beat it? Sort of. But I can very easily get high cholesterol again, if I let my guard down.
Contrast that to, say, chicken pox, which I beat. And t almost certainly will not recur, even with no effort in my part-- even of I tried, I probably couldn't get chicken pox again.
Contrast that to, say, chicken pox, which I beat. And t almost certainly will not recur, even with no effort in my part-- even of I tried, I probably couldn't get chicken pox again.
I second this comment.
> judicious use of psychedelics.
I'm really please to hear that this worked for you. However, I would caution anyone suffering from depression to consider that this form of self medication could potentially make your symptoms worse.
Entheogens/psychedelics have a tendency to amplify our inner state of mind, and if you're unprepared for this or in a bad place, this experience can have an extremely detrimental affect. I'm certain in that in the right context, with the right individuals, drugs like psilocybin and mescaline can be used therapeutically and can assist in making positive transformative changes. They need to be approached with a great deal of caution and respect however, and for most individuals conventional approaches may be safer.
I'm really please to hear that this worked for you. However, I would caution anyone suffering from depression to consider that this form of self medication could potentially make your symptoms worse.
Entheogens/psychedelics have a tendency to amplify our inner state of mind, and if you're unprepared for this or in a bad place, this experience can have an extremely detrimental affect. I'm certain in that in the right context, with the right individuals, drugs like psilocybin and mescaline can be used therapeutically and can assist in making positive transformative changes. They need to be approached with a great deal of caution and respect however, and for most individuals conventional approaches may be safer.
I agree that if you're currently suffering from MDD, psychedelic use is very likely contraindicated.
I wasn't speaking of use while actually depressed.
I wasn't speaking of use while actually depressed.
I'm curious about the psychedelics, can you share more? What drugs? How often?
If you explore my previous comments and submissions you'll find some information about these matters.
In summary, there are a great deal of published resources about psychedelics, but they tend to be inaccessible to those without a good deal of psychedelic experience coupled with a penchant for reading academic or esoteric literature. Thus, for largely sociological reasons, most 'typical' modern users of psychedelics are not at all schooled in academic knowledge about them. On the other hand, the vast majority of systematizing, intelligent, intellectual types do not have sufficient experience with these compounds to really understand or effectively critique the literature about them.
So I'll mention a few quality sources that, if you study them, will almost assuredly arouse your curiosity:
* The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide (published book)
* The Antipodes of the Mind (published book)
* The Journal of Psychoactive Drugs (not just about psychedelics)
* Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved (published book, of particular edification and interest are the essays that precede the synthesis portion of the text)
* The research done by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS)
LSD has proven itself to be quiet beneficial in social situations many times in my life. For example, while 'up' on a moderate dose of high quality LSD, I watched a very attractive guy play guitar and sing at a house show. This led to me having an amazing fantasy experience days later where I finally started to deeply connect to my sexual desire for other men. This precipitated my decision to affirm my bisexual inclinations and pursue them, thus overthrowing years of internalized shame and confusion regarding this issue.
DMT and other very potent tryptamines have also proven to be potentially valuable in my experience. For example, while under the influence of a powerful dose of an orally administered research chemical tryptamine, I literally was able to relive my previous suicide attempt and forgive myself for such self destructive violence in a very deep and healing way. Words literally can't describe the true magnitude of the experience and the positive after effects are still in my life and personality years later.
Not very often but not infrequently either.
In summary, there are a great deal of published resources about psychedelics, but they tend to be inaccessible to those without a good deal of psychedelic experience coupled with a penchant for reading academic or esoteric literature. Thus, for largely sociological reasons, most 'typical' modern users of psychedelics are not at all schooled in academic knowledge about them. On the other hand, the vast majority of systematizing, intelligent, intellectual types do not have sufficient experience with these compounds to really understand or effectively critique the literature about them.
So I'll mention a few quality sources that, if you study them, will almost assuredly arouse your curiosity:
* The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide (published book)
* The Antipodes of the Mind (published book)
* The Journal of Psychoactive Drugs (not just about psychedelics)
* Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved (published book, of particular edification and interest are the essays that precede the synthesis portion of the text)
* The research done by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS)
LSD has proven itself to be quiet beneficial in social situations many times in my life. For example, while 'up' on a moderate dose of high quality LSD, I watched a very attractive guy play guitar and sing at a house show. This led to me having an amazing fantasy experience days later where I finally started to deeply connect to my sexual desire for other men. This precipitated my decision to affirm my bisexual inclinations and pursue them, thus overthrowing years of internalized shame and confusion regarding this issue.
DMT and other very potent tryptamines have also proven to be potentially valuable in my experience. For example, while under the influence of a powerful dose of an orally administered research chemical tryptamine, I literally was able to relive my previous suicide attempt and forgive myself for such self destructive violence in a very deep and healing way. Words literally can't describe the true magnitude of the experience and the positive after effects are still in my life and personality years later.
Not very often but not infrequently either.
Thank you for sharing this.
Thanks for sharing.
I don't know what specific psychedelics he referred to but I can share something.
There is some research suggesting ketamine is useful for depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine
There are legal substances which are similar ketamine which some people argue have similar properties.
I cannot verify and do not advocate.
There is some research suggesting ketamine is useful for depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine
There are legal substances which are similar ketamine which some people argue have similar properties.
I cannot verify and do not advocate.
This was on HN a couple of months ago: "Yale scientists explain how ketamine vanquishes depression within hours" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4615602
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How do you fail to kill yourself, multiple times?
I know that sounds unbelievably crude, but I'm really curious. My brother recently tried and I wonder (hope) that perhaps sometimes these attempts are more a call for help, rather than a genuine attempt.
I know that sounds unbelievably crude, but I'm really curious. My brother recently tried and I wonder (hope) that perhaps sometimes these attempts are more a call for help, rather than a genuine attempt.
I would also say that there is no "beating" depression and while that does sound bad, it doesn't actually mean that it will be a continuous struggle to be happy.
It has been around ~8 months since I was at my worst and while I have my bad days every once in a while, I am much happier than before and in a better overall state of mind. Eventually, even the bad days will go away (I think) but as far as "beating" depression goes, it's just always going to be there and you learn to live a happy life around it.
As far as any tips I can give to people with depression, I would say this: set up short term and long term goals and try to stick to them, eat healthy, exercise, and find new people to talk to. Do not be afraid to ask for help!
Also, if you are feeling suicidal at any point in time, do call the national suicide hotline. They are very helpful people and are available 24/7. They helped me greatly when I was extremely suicidal.
It has been around ~8 months since I was at my worst and while I have my bad days every once in a while, I am much happier than before and in a better overall state of mind. Eventually, even the bad days will go away (I think) but as far as "beating" depression goes, it's just always going to be there and you learn to live a happy life around it.
As far as any tips I can give to people with depression, I would say this: set up short term and long term goals and try to stick to them, eat healthy, exercise, and find new people to talk to. Do not be afraid to ask for help!
Also, if you are feeling suicidal at any point in time, do call the national suicide hotline. They are very helpful people and are available 24/7. They helped me greatly when I was extremely suicidal.
> I think the idea that you can actually conquer this disease sets you up for failure.
This idea needs to be heard. Depression quickly feeds on itself, making one hopeless about the inability to fight back against hopelessness. When I learned to accept that the depression was (temporarily) going to win, and that it was its own cause rather than something about myself or my life, I discovered I could just ride it out.
As with quicksand, it's the struggling that pulls you down deeper.
This idea needs to be heard. Depression quickly feeds on itself, making one hopeless about the inability to fight back against hopelessness. When I learned to accept that the depression was (temporarily) going to win, and that it was its own cause rather than something about myself or my life, I discovered I could just ride it out.
As with quicksand, it's the struggling that pulls you down deeper.
> I don't think one can actually beat depression but instead only really cope with the symptoms. I know that sounds awful and kind of defeatist (and I could be wrong) but I think the idea that you can actually conquer this disease sets you up for failure.
Honestly, for some people depression is effectively cured after a short course of treatment. Once you've treated the depression you develop skills for "resilience" (the new jargon term for 'coping with life'). Some of these skills involve CBT techniques; meditation and relaxation; mindfulness; and building networks of friends and family and developing activities.
Honestly, for some people depression is effectively cured after a short course of treatment. Once you've treated the depression you develop skills for "resilience" (the new jargon term for 'coping with life'). Some of these skills involve CBT techniques; meditation and relaxation; mindfulness; and building networks of friends and family and developing activities.
While I wasn't cured after a 'short course of treatment' I started to get better from near-suicidal point when I started getting treatment. I had anxiety problems after that, but kept on at it.
It took me a good 5 years to deal with all of my emotional baggage, and from that I now have the skills to deal with shit, and to better perceive and handle my emotional state. I am now 100% depression free for almost 4 years now, and I have been able to completely cope with much worse situations than initially caused me to get depressed.
This stuff just takes time.
It took me a good 5 years to deal with all of my emotional baggage, and from that I now have the skills to deal with shit, and to better perceive and handle my emotional state. I am now 100% depression free for almost 4 years now, and I have been able to completely cope with much worse situations than initially caused me to get depressed.
This stuff just takes time.
You are wrong, I beat depression. I don't just 'cope' with it, I actually don't feel depressed any more at all. And this is the rule rather than the exception, most people with depression recover just fine.
Do you have statistics on that? Anyway, "depression" is so vague/broad that it's like measuring whether most people with physical unfitness eventually recover just fine.
When I say 'depression' I mean one of the depressive disorders as per DSM criteria. Major depressive disorder is the only one that has > 50% relapse rate. Most depressed people do not have major depression.
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There are reasonably priced sunlamps that I hear good things about in the treatment of depression. Also, use common sense: pursue positive people (and avoid negative), exercise (no matter how lightly), eat healthy, pursue goals (no matter how trivial). There are multiple avenues to happiness, and pursue the ones that your body responds to.
Hello,
Can anyone provide any advice on how to help a friend through depression? I met this friend about a month and half ago and he recently opened up to me about his depression. He's been in and out of depression since high school (about three years I think; he is currently on medications and getting help; he's reached out to me first (we're studying abroad in Asia) and I would like to help in anyway possible. My questions are:
1) How much do I reach out and ask to hang out/eat/etc.? 2) What are the boundaries I should be aware of? Should I bring up the depression and ask him how he's doing every day? other day? week? 3) Any general advice (I went through semi-depression for about 6 months, but it was not anywhere near as drastic) (I also helped a friend through depression last year which was almost suicidal)
Thank you. I appreciate any advice you can provide.
Can anyone provide any advice on how to help a friend through depression? I met this friend about a month and half ago and he recently opened up to me about his depression. He's been in and out of depression since high school (about three years I think; he is currently on medications and getting help; he's reached out to me first (we're studying abroad in Asia) and I would like to help in anyway possible. My questions are:
1) How much do I reach out and ask to hang out/eat/etc.? 2) What are the boundaries I should be aware of? Should I bring up the depression and ask him how he's doing every day? other day? week? 3) Any general advice (I went through semi-depression for about 6 months, but it was not anywhere near as drastic) (I also helped a friend through depression last year which was almost suicidal)
Thank you. I appreciate any advice you can provide.
Having a strong social support network is a good foundation for dealing with depression. My best advice to you is just be available for when he wants to talk. Let him know that if he ever needs to talk, be it day or night, you're there for him and that he can call you. Thoughts of suicidal ideation or self-harm can come at any time and he will need someone to talk to during those times.
Onto your other questions. The amount of time that he spends hanging out with any individual won't matter too much; having him be in company with people he enjoys several times a week is what is key. What this means is, it doesn't have to be you particularly but if he is hanging-out with others at least 2 or 3 times a week it would be beneficial.
The only boundaries that exist are the ones he implements. Generally, you'll just need to ask him how he's doing and not 'remind' him of his depression everyday, but how often you do that should be down to him to decide.
The best piece of advice I can give, is to observe him. If there is a drastic change in behavior or energy level, that is when you need to intervene and either try to get him to talk or just get him out of the house.
Overall, the above article is a good basis for coping with depression. The author hinted at, but never explicitly said, two key points that I feel the need to reiterate. If your friend is taking medication or is thinking about medication it can take awhile to take effect, on the magnitude of weeks or months, and that not all depression medication is the same - if one pill isn't working move onto others. Second, if your friend is seeing a therapist, again, not all therapist are the same. If he is not connecting with the therapist personally then his treatment is going to be much less effective.
I hope that helps.
Onto your other questions. The amount of time that he spends hanging out with any individual won't matter too much; having him be in company with people he enjoys several times a week is what is key. What this means is, it doesn't have to be you particularly but if he is hanging-out with others at least 2 or 3 times a week it would be beneficial.
The only boundaries that exist are the ones he implements. Generally, you'll just need to ask him how he's doing and not 'remind' him of his depression everyday, but how often you do that should be down to him to decide.
The best piece of advice I can give, is to observe him. If there is a drastic change in behavior or energy level, that is when you need to intervene and either try to get him to talk or just get him out of the house.
Overall, the above article is a good basis for coping with depression. The author hinted at, but never explicitly said, two key points that I feel the need to reiterate. If your friend is taking medication or is thinking about medication it can take awhile to take effect, on the magnitude of weeks or months, and that not all depression medication is the same - if one pill isn't working move onto others. Second, if your friend is seeing a therapist, again, not all therapist are the same. If he is not connecting with the therapist personally then his treatment is going to be much less effective.
I hope that helps.
Thank you very much - I really appreciate your advice. He recently switched medication, and I'll ask him if he's noticed any changes yet. Thank you.
Ask your friend what would be useful. Ask your friend about a "rainy day action plan" - this would be a list of things for you to look out for, and a list of small things your friend could do to let you know things are particularly tough for them.
For example, some people find it too hard to say "Things are tough. I need help" but they would be able to wear a particular hoody and listen to certain music. You'd know to look out for those things, and be able to ask how things are going.
When your pal is having a tough time you might want to allow them to have a week off, and then help them get back into society. They may need encouragement to cook food (or eat good food), or get exercise, or leave the house, or what not. Don't do all this stuff for them, but do help them get it done.
Some people may be at risk of suicide. Saying "Are you having thoughts of ending your life" is acceptable; if they are you need to get them professional help.
There are almost certainly good groups in your country that can provide more help and advice.
This is just advice, I have no professional knowledge etc etc. Good Luck!! It's a tricky thing to deal with.
For example, some people find it too hard to say "Things are tough. I need help" but they would be able to wear a particular hoody and listen to certain music. You'd know to look out for those things, and be able to ask how things are going.
When your pal is having a tough time you might want to allow them to have a week off, and then help them get back into society. They may need encouragement to cook food (or eat good food), or get exercise, or leave the house, or what not. Don't do all this stuff for them, but do help them get it done.
Some people may be at risk of suicide. Saying "Are you having thoughts of ending your life" is acceptable; if they are you need to get them professional help.
There are almost certainly good groups in your country that can provide more help and advice.
This is just advice, I have no professional knowledge etc etc. Good Luck!! It's a tricky thing to deal with.
Thank you very much - I really appreciate your advice. I think the "rainy day action plan" is exactly what I needed to hear. Soon, we'll be traveling through China together and I believe I'll get a chance to talk to him more and put your advice to use. Thank you.
It's impossible to "think yourself" out of depression or "do something good" out of depression, unless it's just a temporary down mood.
The way I beat depression is by doing pure mental exercises on focusing on the actual physical areas of the body where depression is felt, without trying to change/fight/eliminate the feeling itself.
I came up with this technique during lowest point of my life and was almost shocked how fast I moved from suicidal to almost fully content state.
This proved to be very powerful technique as it dissolved pain at it's roots. The speed of that approach for me was like taking antibiotics compare to taking vitamins.
I can also second advice on exercise and better eating habits.
The way I beat depression is by doing pure mental exercises on focusing on the actual physical areas of the body where depression is felt, without trying to change/fight/eliminate the feeling itself.
I came up with this technique during lowest point of my life and was almost shocked how fast I moved from suicidal to almost fully content state.
This proved to be very powerful technique as it dissolved pain at it's roots. The speed of that approach for me was like taking antibiotics compare to taking vitamins.
I can also second advice on exercise and better eating habits.
It sounds like you independently discovered mindfulness meditation. Good for you!
I actually practiced mindfullness meditation with, lets say it, zero results.
The method I used is more, like:
"love your enemy" or rather "love your pain", or more precisely be aware of the areas of the body which are feeling pain.
Negative thoughts are just light energy sparks causing pain within the body. This bodily pain is heavier, more resident energy that could become alive on it's own, even without further thinking.
It was really frustrating to me to wake up in the beautiful morning and within 2 seconds feel heavy wave of depression dawning on me again. I didn't even had time to think and was wondering why it is happening to be.
Until i realized that depression lives in the body, not in the mind.
Once I started paying attention to the body, the depressive thoughts and depressive emotions starts to disappear.
This is more what Eckhart Tolle was writing about, albeit without specifics that I added to my practice.
As i started to see results - I started having fun with it, like looking for negative emotional reactions within me on different thoughts or situations and then frying and washing these emotions off and away by applying the method.
As i started to see results - I started having fun with it, like looking for negative emotional reactions within me on different thoughts or situations and then frying and washing these emotions off and away by applying the method.
Could you please expand on the type and method of the mental exercises? I'm interested in what worked for you... are you able to describe how someone else could undertake those exercises?
Yes sure. Hope it helps:
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To start with basics - depression in it's essence is suppressed pain (or blocked energy) within the body.
This pain could start with either traumatic event, long exposure to unhealthy, unloving and unfriendly environment or as a consequence of consistently negative thought patterns.
Negative thought patterns causes inner emotional unpleasant sensations within the body. More negative thoughts cause more emotional pain. This pain in turn fuels more negative thoughts and the vicious, self-fullfilling cycle starts to function on it's own: inner emotional pain fuels negative thoughts, and thoughts causes more and stronger emotional pain.
Once this vicious cycle strengthens - pain becomes rooted in the body without thoughts, and person goes beyond "talkative" therapies and it becomes impossible to "talk yourself" out of depression, impossible to "do yourself" out of depression or "positively think" yourself out of depression. Changing thoughts from negative to positive no longer helps because rooted inner emotional pain burns like an underground fire that is not taken care of and easily comes back.
I found the solution that worked for me better than anything. Instead of trying to "think myself" out of depression or do some "pain killing" or distracting activities, I dived into depression, or more precisely "felt myself" directly into the areas of the body where I felt painful feelings.
Most people are trying to avoid, escape or suppress pain. People would use drugs, painkillers, porn, entertainment, alcohol, doing-something-noble or engage with any possible distraction away from pain. But pain inside is not taken care of and soon inevitably comes back.
So here's exact technique: When you start feeling depressed or strongly emotionally down - locate inside your body exact areas where you feel these depressive or negative sensations and feelings. Usually these will be in abdomen sections, chest areas, neck, shoulders, quite often occupying large areas of your body or even covering hands or feet. Make sure you mentally "mark down" all exact areas where you feel this depression. Depression doesn't like you to look at it directly like that. Depression loves to make epic unresolvable problems of gigantic proportions out of everything, and it absolutely hates to be diminished to pure physical bodily sensations. And that's exactly what you will do.
Once you pinpointed exact physical areas in the body where you feel emotional, painful sensations do these steps together: 1. Start observing these physical areas within the body where you feel something. Just observe areas without trying to change your feelings. 2. Start to consciously follow your breathing. In and out. In and out - and at the same time watch/observe your inner physical areas as above. Hint: To easily focus on body areas - imagine you breathing through theses areas. Imagine you actually inhaling and exhaling through these areas - this approach helps you to focus on exact body areas (where you feel sensations of negative emotions or depression) as well as to keep conscious breathing.
When areas of pain are watched - the energy pathways opens and pain (blocked energy) starts dissolving. When you add conscious breathing - this suspends incessant thinking and increases energy flow. This accelerates the whole process. Again - you're not trying to change, kill or eliminate anything. Like Eckhart Tolle says - you just adding the light of your awareness to your body. In this case to the areas that feels negative sensations.
Even if painful feelings does not dissolve during this practice, you will find that they will inevitably diminish soon after. Hope it helps!
Once this vicious cycle strengthens - pain becomes rooted in the body without thoughts, and person goes beyond "talkative" therapies and it becomes impossible to "talk yourself" out of depression, impossible to "do yourself" out of depression or "positively think" yourself out of depression. Changing thoughts from negative to positive no longer helps because rooted inner emotional pain burns like an underground fire that is not taken care of and easily comes back.
I found the solution that worked for me better than anything. Instead of trying to "think myself" out of depression or do some "pain killing" or distracting activities, I dived into depression, or more precisely "felt myself" directly into the areas of the body where I felt painful feelings.
Most people are trying to avoid, escape or suppress pain. People would use drugs, painkillers, porn, entertainment, alcohol, doing-something-noble or engage with any possible distraction away from pain. But pain inside is not taken care of and soon inevitably comes back.
So here's exact technique: When you start feeling depressed or strongly emotionally down - locate inside your body exact areas where you feel these depressive or negative sensations and feelings. Usually these will be in abdomen sections, chest areas, neck, shoulders, quite often occupying large areas of your body or even covering hands or feet. Make sure you mentally "mark down" all exact areas where you feel this depression. Depression doesn't like you to look at it directly like that. Depression loves to make epic unresolvable problems of gigantic proportions out of everything, and it absolutely hates to be diminished to pure physical bodily sensations. And that's exactly what you will do.
Once you pinpointed exact physical areas in the body where you feel emotional, painful sensations do these steps together: 1. Start observing these physical areas within the body where you feel something. Just observe areas without trying to change your feelings. 2. Start to consciously follow your breathing. In and out. In and out - and at the same time watch/observe your inner physical areas as above. Hint: To easily focus on body areas - imagine you breathing through theses areas. Imagine you actually inhaling and exhaling through these areas - this approach helps you to focus on exact body areas (where you feel sensations of negative emotions or depression) as well as to keep conscious breathing.
When areas of pain are watched - the energy pathways opens and pain (blocked energy) starts dissolving. When you add conscious breathing - this suspends incessant thinking and increases energy flow. This accelerates the whole process. Again - you're not trying to change, kill or eliminate anything. Like Eckhart Tolle says - you just adding the light of your awareness to your body. In this case to the areas that feels negative sensations.
Even if painful feelings does not dissolve during this practice, you will find that they will inevitably diminish soon after. Hope it helps!
Where in your body do you feel depression, besides your r brain? That's where mine is. Plus in my heart (anxiety), but that's not really depression.
Depression feels painful and unpleasant and it's not in the brain.
Brain generates thoughts and in case of depression these are "beating yourself up" thoughts that are being felt as a subtle pain within the body. The trick is to try paying attention to exact physical sensations within the body. You'll start discovering that it actually hurts within the body, and often covering rather wide areas.
Maybe this will help someone: A lot of times suicidal thoughts are not about a death wish but about a wish for silence in your head. I think realizing this can make a difference. Whatever the case: don't be ashamed, get help.
I'm really happy that these posts are getting onto the front page. They are very important.
I want to add one thing. Working with a doctor is important, but work with a psychologist as well. Especially if you are resistant to going on meds (and I don't blame you if you are...). A good psychologist may be able to offer you treatment options that better suit your needs.
Also, if you aren't getting what you need from your Dr or Psychologist then move on and find a new one. Keep doing this until you find someone who genuinely cares about you, and wants to work with you to get you feeling better.
I want to add one thing. Working with a doctor is important, but work with a psychologist as well. Especially if you are resistant to going on meds (and I don't blame you if you are...). A good psychologist may be able to offer you treatment options that better suit your needs.
Also, if you aren't getting what you need from your Dr or Psychologist then move on and find a new one. Keep doing this until you find someone who genuinely cares about you, and wants to work with you to get you feeling better.
Medications obviously aren't for everyone, and certainly there's no one size fits all medication, but as someone who tried several medications that interfered with my clarity of mind, finding Wellbutrin has made a real difference for me. It works along a different pathway than other anti-depressants. It's known to increase focus. Rather than feeling like I was experiencing the world through gauze, I feel more... like me, sans the crippling depression.
YMMV, but I find that every (exceedingly legitimate) objection I have towards medication simply became immaterial in the face of feeling better.
YMMV, but I find that every (exceedingly legitimate) objection I have towards medication simply became immaterial in the face of feeling better.
Feeling "more like yourself" is one of the more common descriptions of what it feels like to be on a medication that's working. I'm glad you found something that worked and you're feeling better.
I always feel like myself, and myself is always changing. I just prefer the versions of myself that aren't bleeding profusely or have eye-burning headache or dizziness when I stand up or lower back pain or etc etc
OTOH, for someone who is working through depression, it is nice to have somewhere to go to safely talk about something else without randomly once a day (as it was during peak Swarz-steria season) getting a note shoved in your face that says "HEY! let's talk about your fucked-up mental problems again!"
Just a couple of notes on the medication part:
Yes, you will probably feel worse during the first couple of weeks of the regimen. This is common enough that your prescribing doctor should warn you about it, and s/he should set up some way of monitoring your progress - appointments twice a week for the first month or something like that. It should also be clear from the documentation that comes with the pills.
Second, you should only change your medication after consulting with your doctor. In this case it looks like the course was "I took the meds for six months, and then I felt better so I stopped", which is not recommended. The relapse rate is significantly lowered if you take the meds until you have no symptoms + 6 months (or longer, if it isn't your first depression).
Third, it really is very recommended to slowly taper of the medication and not go cold turkey. The side effects will be much worse if you just stop. Also, the relapse rate. Once again, discuss any planned changes in your medication with your doctor.
Yes, you will probably feel worse during the first couple of weeks of the regimen. This is common enough that your prescribing doctor should warn you about it, and s/he should set up some way of monitoring your progress - appointments twice a week for the first month or something like that. It should also be clear from the documentation that comes with the pills.
Second, you should only change your medication after consulting with your doctor. In this case it looks like the course was "I took the meds for six months, and then I felt better so I stopped", which is not recommended. The relapse rate is significantly lowered if you take the meds until you have no symptoms + 6 months (or longer, if it isn't your first depression).
Third, it really is very recommended to slowly taper of the medication and not go cold turkey. The side effects will be much worse if you just stop. Also, the relapse rate. Once again, discuss any planned changes in your medication with your doctor.
I've been fighting depression since one year ago and I'd like to share my story with you guys and hope to get some warming advices. Quick introduction: I've always been a self-educated about computer science, but my mother always wanted to see me studying in a _regular/acknowledged_ way. When I turned 25, I started feeling very bad: my career in information technology was going really good and since I didn't passed through the academical stages (exams, graduation, etc) I felt like I didn't really deserve such professional "glory" (sorry for quick and dirt english).
So I decided to join the university: I started passing exams, and finally I could go to bed with a clear conscience! One year ago I received a job offer from a big enterprise, a job that could have change my life. This job (9h/5d) would not allow me to continue my university career and they gave me one week to decide. It was really hard, and in the end I refused that job.
My odyssey begins from this point. I had a panic attack on the first day of university after my choice, a huge panic attack that I thought: "I'm gonna die". After that event, my condition degenerated: I was no longer able to go out from my house, neither going downstairs to feed the dog. Everytime I went outside, I had a panic attack, it was a nightmare. Because of this hard form of agoraphobia I was neither able to go out and see a psychiatrist. I also developed tinnitus in my left ear and a painful hypochondria.
It took about 4/5 months before I realized the actual cause of my depression: in this age of economical crisis, when people commits suicides for not being able to pay debts, I rejected a permanent full-time contract. After this realization, my condition started going slightly better: I had no more panic attacks and I was able to go out with my gf and my friends.
At the time of this writing, one year after my first crisis, I'm still not able to go to places with many people, ot taking a train, or staying away from home for too long.
I see that such a condition is common to many computer programmers, I think that alienation caused by working on computers make things worse. At some point, I also considered the option of giving up with computer science, but it's not possible, it's really the only thing I can do.
I'm still fighting depression, I'm still not able to answer the questions "where would you be now to be happy?" , "what would you be doing now to be happy?". It's really sad when you can't answers these questions. Is it ever happened to you? How did you behave?
So I decided to join the university: I started passing exams, and finally I could go to bed with a clear conscience! One year ago I received a job offer from a big enterprise, a job that could have change my life. This job (9h/5d) would not allow me to continue my university career and they gave me one week to decide. It was really hard, and in the end I refused that job.
My odyssey begins from this point. I had a panic attack on the first day of university after my choice, a huge panic attack that I thought: "I'm gonna die". After that event, my condition degenerated: I was no longer able to go out from my house, neither going downstairs to feed the dog. Everytime I went outside, I had a panic attack, it was a nightmare. Because of this hard form of agoraphobia I was neither able to go out and see a psychiatrist. I also developed tinnitus in my left ear and a painful hypochondria.
It took about 4/5 months before I realized the actual cause of my depression: in this age of economical crisis, when people commits suicides for not being able to pay debts, I rejected a permanent full-time contract. After this realization, my condition started going slightly better: I had no more panic attacks and I was able to go out with my gf and my friends.
At the time of this writing, one year after my first crisis, I'm still not able to go to places with many people, ot taking a train, or staying away from home for too long.
I see that such a condition is common to many computer programmers, I think that alienation caused by working on computers make things worse. At some point, I also considered the option of giving up with computer science, but it's not possible, it's really the only thing I can do.
I'm still fighting depression, I'm still not able to answer the questions "where would you be now to be happy?" , "what would you be doing now to be happy?". It's really sad when you can't answers these questions. Is it ever happened to you? How did you behave?
I'm sorry to hear about your predicament pawnhearts. Have you managed to get to a counsellor yet?
Not yet, ZenoArrow.
I'm "fear of fear", and I can't be strong enough to face up regular life situations. And I have to find a solution, I have to find the strenght to do something before summer comes. Hot wheter increases depression.
At the moment I'm trying to work less and study/read/distract more. I spend great time on the road by car on my own or with my girlfriend, going nowhere and listening to some music I used to listen when everything "was fine".
Some times I can't even remember "how I was" before the whole depression thing. I look at my old pictures and I think to myself: "I was this guy. Really? I used to go to concerts, meet a lot of people, everybody used to love me. Who am I now? And why?"
I'm "fear of fear", and I can't be strong enough to face up regular life situations. And I have to find a solution, I have to find the strenght to do something before summer comes. Hot wheter increases depression.
At the moment I'm trying to work less and study/read/distract more. I spend great time on the road by car on my own or with my girlfriend, going nowhere and listening to some music I used to listen when everything "was fine".
Some times I can't even remember "how I was" before the whole depression thing. I look at my old pictures and I think to myself: "I was this guy. Really? I used to go to concerts, meet a lot of people, everybody used to love me. Who am I now? And why?"
I'm sorry to hear you have had tough times recently pawnhearts.
I understand that the road to recovery might feel hard to find, but you'll maximise your chances of finding it if you can get help from others. Please contact a counsellor. Reaching out for help is a humbling but often vital part of emotional recovery. If you can please do it today or tomorrow.
One piece of advice I can give you now is that looking back at who you were and trying to recreate that isn't likely to be helpful to you. Instead, consider what you can do now to help improve things in the future. If you're not sure where to start (apart from contacting a counsellor as discussed), can always start with improving your diet, finding time to exercise and getting into good habits with your sleep pattern. It's surprising how much our mood is influenced by these things, and they are simple tasks to focus on.
Best of luck with your recovery. :-)
I understand that the road to recovery might feel hard to find, but you'll maximise your chances of finding it if you can get help from others. Please contact a counsellor. Reaching out for help is a humbling but often vital part of emotional recovery. If you can please do it today or tomorrow.
One piece of advice I can give you now is that looking back at who you were and trying to recreate that isn't likely to be helpful to you. Instead, consider what you can do now to help improve things in the future. If you're not sure where to start (apart from contacting a counsellor as discussed), can always start with improving your diet, finding time to exercise and getting into good habits with your sleep pattern. It's surprising how much our mood is influenced by these things, and they are simple tasks to focus on.
Best of luck with your recovery. :-)
Reach out to someone. If you feel too shy or uncool, find someone even less cool, and look for their special nature under the surface. Volunteer with a group at a soup kitchen, or a litter patrol, or animal rescue. Or just comment on a bug in an open source software package you use. Get busy doing something good for someone who would like to say thanks.
Stay open and allow others to help. Realize you need people around you to who can be a support network. This is the hardest thing to do when you are suffering from depression.
Couldn't agree more. When I was suffering from depression, I was so stubborn about wanting to face it alone and not "force" my friends and family to get involved, because I'd be becoming even more of a burden to them and to society than I already felt I was. I just felt this burning sense of shame and worthlessness at the mere thought of asking for help.
Hackers are admired more than ever, but I think it comes with a price. When everyone sees you as this superman who can make and do anything and knows everything, it's gotta make it that much harder to reach out for help.
Couldn't agree more. When I was suffering from depression, I was so stubborn about wanting to face it alone and not "force" my friends and family to get involved, because I'd be becoming even more of a burden to them and to society than I already felt I was. I just felt this burning sense of shame and worthlessness at the mere thought of asking for help.
Hackers are admired more than ever, but I think it comes with a price. When everyone sees you as this superman who can make and do anything and knows everything, it's gotta make it that much harder to reach out for help.
Having read a lot of the comments here there seems to be two main thoughts. That depression isn't something that can be beaten and that it can be beaten.
Personally I think both camps are right, in many of the cases where people have beaten depression I think there is a common element be it Cognitive Behavior Therapy or psychedelics these practices can change your brain. Meditation can also change your brain significantly and this is how I believe I have 'beaten' depression.
So no you can't beat depression without changing your brain and changing your brain can be a risky business and perhaps when you do change your brain you are no longer the you that was depressed...
Personally I think both camps are right, in many of the cases where people have beaten depression I think there is a common element be it Cognitive Behavior Therapy or psychedelics these practices can change your brain. Meditation can also change your brain significantly and this is how I believe I have 'beaten' depression.
So no you can't beat depression without changing your brain and changing your brain can be a risky business and perhaps when you do change your brain you are no longer the you that was depressed...
The points are good however usually the depressed person can't do anything by him/herself. In my own case, I was not going out of my house for very long time and I avoided seeing any people I knew. I did not admit that I am depressed so I was blaming myself so much which was draining me as well. The only thing I knew was 'Realize you can get better' and I knew if my certain problem gets solved then I will get better but I did not have any energy to do that. After a year I found a girlfriend which helped me a lot on that problem until it was finished. It was such a tough time!
This is a really important post. Something I've noticed is that more people climb in the Bay Area than anywhere I've ever been before. I wonder if its at all related to the stress and personalities contained there?
The West is also a great place for climbing (geographically speaking) - far better than many places I've lived... but I'll also vouch for climbing being a great activity. Ultimate Frisbee as well.
It is a trendy hobby. (Nothing wrong with that.) It os socially rewarding to have a popular hobby. Some people run or bike or play basketball.
I think the key to dealing with mental conditions is to identify/diagnose/recognize it, accept it and work with professionals to learn to manage it. My own struggle was with acceptance. In my mind, my depression was due to the label placed on me via diagnosis. It took over a decade to find the right support system. My advice to those with mental conditions is to "Never give up!" May sound cliche... Yet although these conditions may not be curable, they can be manageable.
here's an account of my own bout with a mental health condition:
http://adriancunanan.com/blog/2013/3/12/heres-to-the-crazy-o...
http://adriancunanan.com/blog/2013/3/12/heres-to-the-crazy-o...
I'll agree with the working out regularly being good for your health, both mental and physical. Exercising has gotten me through some tough spots in my life and it has always been a major coping mechanism.
Another thing that has always worked for me has been laughter. Whether it's watching a classic movie like Dumb & Dumber, reading reddit/r/funny, or catching The Colbert Report, laughing eases all the little things that otherwise might eat you up.
Another thing that has always worked for me has been laughter. Whether it's watching a classic movie like Dumb & Dumber, reading reddit/r/funny, or catching The Colbert Report, laughing eases all the little things that otherwise might eat you up.
Everything that makes you happy or sad is in your mind. So I would suggest that it is not about beating depression but achieving a balance of the two. One cannot completely eliminate depression type or extreme joy type feelings from one's life. So it is good to develop a balance that leads to the understanding that shit happens. But this too shall pass.
One other thing worth noting: consider whether you might actually be bipolar, especially if antidepressants aren't really working for you or make you worse. A lot of Bipolar II cases (where manic states aren't as dramatic and depressive symptoms dominate) are misdiagnosed as unipolar depression.
Walking definitely helps. Last year was a particularly rough one for me in a lot of ways and just going back to the mountain town where I grew up and hiking for a few hours in the forest really helped me to change my outlook. I consider it the most important thing I did.
Thank you for this post. Your post really rings true for me. I have been suffering from depression for the past year, but this week has been especially bad. I hadn't sought help until recently. I have been encountering many of the things you describe.
Fischer Wallace Cranial Stimulator + Neurotransmitter Supplements (5HTP, etc)
This is worth a try for anyone with depression. There are many different causes, but brain chemistry can be an issue caused by your lifestyle alone, as well as other stuff.
This is worth a try for anyone with depression. There are many different causes, but brain chemistry can be an issue caused by your lifestyle alone, as well as other stuff.
Don't forget natural sunlight.
I am wondering if anyone has tried any online intervention for anxiety or depression. Some of them have strong theoretical background (like CBT that is mentioned in another comment). Any impressions?
Online access would make it much more accessible, especially for those who are introverted and have social anxiety like me.
Matches well with this: http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelellsberg/2011/07/18/how-i...
Great perspective. Question for the HN community: Why/How is it that small communities like HN have removed the stigma attached with mental health while larger society has not?
There's a lot less stigma attached when it's a (relatively) anonymous forum, when you're not face-to-face with the people responding, when you have a large support group because people who understand and care find YOU (via your headline) rather than you having to find them, and when someone who responds in a negative way is likely to get downvoted and called an asshole.
There are probably still people on HN who respond negatively to an admission of depression, but they're (wisely) keeping quiet.
There are probably still people on HN who respond negatively to an admission of depression, but they're (wisely) keeping quiet.
I've never considered my username here to be particularly anonymous. Apparently it is, as I just discovered, but anyone who knows me would recognize my username.
To be honest, the number of people who are open about mental health problems in posts like this is fairly surprising to me.
To be honest, the number of people who are open about mental health problems in posts like this is fairly surprising to me.
> Why/How is it that small communities like HN have removed the stigma attached with mental health
They haven't - there's still stigma around MH problems. It just doesn't show itself in threads like this.
See any thread about i) interviewing or ii) spree shooting and there'll be plenty of stigmatising comments.
It's not so bad, because at least most people on HN are happy to talk about it.
They haven't - there's still stigma around MH problems. It just doesn't show itself in threads like this.
See any thread about i) interviewing or ii) spree shooting and there'll be plenty of stigmatising comments.
It's not so bad, because at least most people on HN are happy to talk about it.
I still think there's a stigma. It's good that people are talking about it, but I don't think that means the stigma is gone.
Yes, as the author of the article I thought through the stigma associated with this before I posted. Ultimately it came down to leading with my heart and doing what I thought was right regardless of what others thought.
It is great that there has been a quite open and kind discussion as that is what is needed.
It is great that there has been a quite open and kind discussion as that is what is needed.
Try 2+ years of it, unfortunately (for them) someone is going to 1 up me now.
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These can be very hard things to do when you're depressed. It helps if you have someone motivating you. I'm on my way out of a pretty serious slump and the same things have helped me as this article has described. I've been surrounded by positive family members, I've been on a generic of Lexapro, I've been running/jogging/fast-walking two miles a day and I've been reminding myself that I didn't feel this way a year ago and that in a year I might feel completely better again.
Anyone who's ever been depressed knows that even on a good day, just thinking about your depression can evoke panic and sadness and a "relapse". I'm using the Seinfeld calendar system. I try to keep up a streak of good days and use that to motivate and reassure me. (Frankly, the fact that I even clicked on this topic and wrote a comment means I'm feeling better. I had to skim and mentally skip over much of HN during the weeks after Aaron's suicide. :( )
Anyone who's ever been depressed knows that even on a good day, just thinking about your depression can evoke panic and sadness and a "relapse". I'm using the Seinfeld calendar system. I try to keep up a streak of good days and use that to motivate and reassure me. (Frankly, the fact that I even clicked on this topic and wrote a comment means I'm feeling better. I had to skim and mentally skip over much of HN during the weeks after Aaron's suicide. :( )
Heroin helped me beat my bouts of depression, although the downside being extremely addictive which seems to bring you right back where you started but in all honesty, depression is caused by fixation, ironically heroin taught me how to relax and "let go" of the angst caused by fixation while at the same time my mind was completely fixated on it. To each his own, you gotta stop reading about how to cure an illness, you have to act, find meaning even though it's meaningless.
Also a more interesting question would be, are people working in startup, especially single software vendors more susceptible to depression? Look at Aaron Schwartz guy, all those times he was depressed, look at his increasingly erratic and tendency towards martyrdom. The pressure from idiot zealots finally tipped him.
I'm the author of the article and I asked myself this question before I wrote it. I posted some data here which came out of that research: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5272763 but it didn't get much traction. When I compared across disciplines in the original dataset (using software programmer as the discipline) there wasn't a strong indication that they were more prone to suicide than other professional jobs. I don't remember exactly but doctors, lawyers, dentists were toward the top of that list.
One challenge is that the dataset I reference doesn't have data post 1998. Since our discipline has grown and changed since then a more recent dataset might show something more interesting.
One challenge is that the dataset I reference doesn't have data post 1998. Since our discipline has grown and changed since then a more recent dataset might show something more interesting.
I think the actual software programmer job working for a company is different than someone working alone erratic hours, building apps, marketing, selling, and breaking even. It's quite challenging in itself to produce good software product let alone selling it and breaking even so it'd be interesting to see some statistics for single founder startups or micro software vendors.
I would say the stress is the biggest for SaaS type of software products, as someone posted a video here about "Constant Contact", it's described as the slow ramp of death because it takes so long and hard to reach that magic upward slope.
These are all just my magical assumptions based on my own situation and experience. I'm sure there's ton of positive, empathetic, emotionally intelligent coder/hacker/entrepreneurs although there's lot of Aspies, who studies have shown to be greater risk of depression.
I would say the stress is the biggest for SaaS type of software products, as someone posted a video here about "Constant Contact", it's described as the slow ramp of death because it takes so long and hard to reach that magic upward slope.
These are all just my magical assumptions based on my own situation and experience. I'm sure there's ton of positive, empathetic, emotionally intelligent coder/hacker/entrepreneurs although there's lot of Aspies, who studies have shown to be greater risk of depression.
Stress (and financial instability) has its own set of health problems, but that's not depression. Depression has more mundane physical and neurological causes, whereas stress disorders are caused by the pressures of difficult lifestyles like running a business on your last nickel or being ultraompetitive in your career or being a soldier at war.
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Your doctor might provide helpful counseling, but then again, so might a teacher, clergyman, friend, or any other untrained person. (I suppose these are all worth trying if you know one who might help you.)
Psychotherapists, on the other hand, dedicate their professional lives to EXACTLY what you want: relief of suffering from mental illness. It isn't an exact science, and your therapist's particular background, talents, and personality make a big difference, so it isn't like there's a professional qualification that guarantees good results, but at least their professional goals, training, and experience aim at what you need instead of at something else entirely.