Hacker News Should Implement Target=”_blank”(johnfdoherty.com)
johnfdoherty.com
Hacker News Should Implement Target=”_blank”
http://www.johnfdoherty.com/hackernews-implement-targetblank/
13 comments
I'd agree with you about internal links, but not external links. I'd argue that anyone reading HN uses tabs anyways.
nope, not everyone. From time to time I just open links, ignoring the cnversation here on HN.
By using target="_blank" the site owner removes an option for me (see a few comments down, someone said the same thing).
By using target="_blank" the site owner removes an option for me (see a few comments down, someone said the same thing).
Oh God, this goes exactly against what we've been trying to exterminate for the last 10 years.
target="_blank" is one of the worst thing of the old web. Frames may be the first in this ranking. Surprisingly enough, the two are related: the 'target' attribute primary goal is to manage frames.
As others said, as the whole web developer community says actually, one shouldn't use such thing that forces the users to open a new tab. You should give them the freedom of choosing whether they want to open this new tab, because it's very easy for them to do so: middle-clicking or ctrl-clicking.
Please do some basic web searching; you'll find pretty soon that people have been fighting against this attribute for too long to let a techy-oriented website like HN implement this.
target="_blank" is one of the worst thing of the old web. Frames may be the first in this ranking. Surprisingly enough, the two are related: the 'target' attribute primary goal is to manage frames.
As others said, as the whole web developer community says actually, one shouldn't use such thing that forces the users to open a new tab. You should give them the freedom of choosing whether they want to open this new tab, because it's very easy for them to do so: middle-clicking or ctrl-clicking.
Please do some basic web searching; you'll find pretty soon that people have been fighting against this attribute for too long to let a techy-oriented website like HN implement this.
Bad idea. Reduces functionality. If I want to open a link in a new tab it's just a CMD+click operation. AFAIK there's no way to open a "_blank" link in the same tab/window. Instead of having two options for opening a link I'm reduced to one.
I completely agree. Why should the admins limit the functionality when there is an existing usage that is perfectly suited for this?
The scroll wheel in my mouse can be used as a middle click to open a new tab. On some laptops with trackpads there are even gestures for middle click even if there are no buttons.
The scroll wheel in my mouse can be used as a middle click to open a new tab. On some laptops with trackpads there are even gestures for middle click even if there are no buttons.
So keep internal links (to discussions, etc) as default and external links as _blank.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
No, problem exacerbated. You have 3 camps of people here. One camp expects to only open new tabs when they choose to. Another wants (and sometimes expects) links to open new tabs always. The third camp prefers to open new tabs for "external" links and not for "internal" links, and would like to see this behavior become a convention (expectation) as well.
Leaving aside the problem of what counts as an "external" link (is a link from Gawker to Deadspin "external"? Depends on how the user perceives the relationship between those sites), you're still just muddying up the web's UI conventions. That's what "default" link behavior is: a UI convention.
Not knowing where a page is going to open on the screen is a huge problem for users. Requiring them to learn why one kind of link replaces the content in the tab they're currently looking at and another kind of link opens in a new tab only makes it harder for them to "engage" with the websites they're trying to use.
Leaving aside the problem of what counts as an "external" link (is a link from Gawker to Deadspin "external"? Depends on how the user perceives the relationship between those sites), you're still just muddying up the web's UI conventions. That's what "default" link behavior is: a UI convention.
Not knowing where a page is going to open on the screen is a huge problem for users. Requiring them to learn why one kind of link replaces the content in the tab they're currently looking at and another kind of link opens in a new tab only makes it harder for them to "engage" with the websites they're trying to use.
"Well HackerNews, what say you? I dare you to increase your traffic and engagement."
HackerNews [sic], I dare you to allow your users to choose how they want to open new links, even if the mouse/keyboard mechanism for opening them in new tabs isn't completely 100% intuitive to some subset of web users.
I dare you to ignore any so-called "SEO" who thinks he's discovered an incredible "engagement" technique that's really just another tired way of tricking people into staying on your website.
I dare you to consult the relevant RFCs and acknowledge that the behavior of target="_blank" isn't news to anyone here.
I dare you to recognize that not every single thing on the internet has to "optimized" to get more traffic, and that "engagement" isn't just about people clicking on links.
I dare you to consider the possibility that we now have a situation where, thanks to the SEO frenzy of the past few years, there is no "correct" default behavior for links anymore, and it might be better to just let the user have control over it via their browser preferences.
I dare you to tell the world which way you prefer to open links and why it is better.
What say you? WHAT SAY YOU?
HackerNews [sic], I dare you to allow your users to choose how they want to open new links, even if the mouse/keyboard mechanism for opening them in new tabs isn't completely 100% intuitive to some subset of web users.
I dare you to ignore any so-called "SEO" who thinks he's discovered an incredible "engagement" technique that's really just another tired way of tricking people into staying on your website.
I dare you to consult the relevant RFCs and acknowledge that the behavior of target="_blank" isn't news to anyone here.
I dare you to recognize that not every single thing on the internet has to "optimized" to get more traffic, and that "engagement" isn't just about people clicking on links.
I dare you to consider the possibility that we now have a situation where, thanks to the SEO frenzy of the past few years, there is no "correct" default behavior for links anymore, and it might be better to just let the user have control over it via their browser preferences.
I dare you to tell the world which way you prefer to open links and why it is better.
What say you? WHAT SAY YOU?
> But then I have to hit the Back button. Who hits the back button on the Internet anymore, especially techies like myself who live off of keyboard shortcuts? Why make me go from using my keyboard to using my mouse or trackpad just to go back? No one uses the Delete key to go back, let’s be honest.
I don't know what SEO-flavored koolaid you've been gargling, but FYI, the Back button is _still_ the most-used part of browser UI, beating out even _the address bar_: https://blog.mozilla.org/ux/2012/06/firefox-heatmap-study-20...
I'd think "techies like yourself" would also know that there are also at least four ways to open any link you want in a new tab: ctrl-click, middle-click, context menu, or ctrl-enter while it has focus.
As for the Back button, I tend to have one hand on my mouse while browsing anyway (so I can, you know, click links), and I usually go back by clicking mouse4. That's the bottom of the pair of buttons on the left side of the mouse, where my thumb goes. The top one, mouse5, even goes forward. I think this is default behavior in every browser by now.
Opening in a new window by default is a crappy idea anyway, but it's particularly bad on a news aggregator site line HN, because I almost certainly want to read _more than one article_. Why would I click a link and alt-tab back ad nauseum, when I can just scan down the front page and middle-click anything that looks interesting, then browse through the collection of new tabs at my leisure?
The only remotely compelling excuse for this behavior is that users may not know how to open links in new tabs, but they absolutely understand Back, and one would assume HN has a reasonably technical audience anyway. So that just leaves us with: spawning new tabs forces me to look at the origin site at least once more so I can _close_ it. Well, fuck your cheap tricks and fuck your "engagement". I'll do my own window management, tyvm.
I don't know what SEO-flavored koolaid you've been gargling, but FYI, the Back button is _still_ the most-used part of browser UI, beating out even _the address bar_: https://blog.mozilla.org/ux/2012/06/firefox-heatmap-study-20...
I'd think "techies like yourself" would also know that there are also at least four ways to open any link you want in a new tab: ctrl-click, middle-click, context menu, or ctrl-enter while it has focus.
As for the Back button, I tend to have one hand on my mouse while browsing anyway (so I can, you know, click links), and I usually go back by clicking mouse4. That's the bottom of the pair of buttons on the left side of the mouse, where my thumb goes. The top one, mouse5, even goes forward. I think this is default behavior in every browser by now.
Opening in a new window by default is a crappy idea anyway, but it's particularly bad on a news aggregator site line HN, because I almost certainly want to read _more than one article_. Why would I click a link and alt-tab back ad nauseum, when I can just scan down the front page and middle-click anything that looks interesting, then browse through the collection of new tabs at my leisure?
The only remotely compelling excuse for this behavior is that users may not know how to open links in new tabs, but they absolutely understand Back, and one would assume HN has a reasonably technical audience anyway. So that just leaves us with: spawning new tabs forces me to look at the origin site at least once more so I can _close_ it. Well, fuck your cheap tricks and fuck your "engagement". I'll do my own window management, tyvm.
Indeed. Moreover, if the Backspace key (Delete on Mac) doesn't cut it for you, Alt + left arrow on Windows or ⌘-[ on Mac do the job just fine.
No, they absolutely should not. I can already control whether a link opens in a new tab/window. Please don't make a decision for me that is not the default.
Very bad idea. Target="_blank" should never be used due to the simple fact that it modifies the expected behaviour.
Even in an aggregator site like HN?
Yes. The expected result, when I click on a link, is that said link opens in situ.
No, it shouldn't. Learn to use your command key; it'll make the web a whole new experience for you.
Haha funny guy. I know all the tricks, I just hate having to use them on sites like this.
I actually hover my hand over my command key while I'm browsing the web; it's not a trick, so much as a tip, it's part of my default behavior on the web.
I normally only keep a few tabs open but HN is the only site where I middle mouse click everything.
Since the links time out so fast you're kind of forced to go a few pages deep in 1 shot while opening links that you want to read in a new tab then read them when you can.
There's some weird satisfaction of not middle clicking the last link you plan to read for now and depart from HN for that session.
Since the links time out so fast you're kind of forced to go a few pages deep in 1 shot while opening links that you want to read in a new tab then read them when you can.
There's some weird satisfaction of not middle clicking the last link you plan to read for now and depart from HN for that session.
At the risk of sounding unhackerish, I actually want the UI to do the right thing by default. So I support this. I thought differently 10 years ago ("let the user middle-click if they want"), but nowadays I believe in the 80% rule. Make it simple for the default use case.
What's the right thing?
http://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/19892/opening-website-...
http://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/19892/opening-website-...
I agree (obviously).
Yes, please.
I hate to use keyboard shortcuts for opening links in new tabs. This SHOULD be a default feature on a site like HN.
I hate to use keyboard shortcuts for opening links in new tabs. This SHOULD be a default feature on a site like HN.
lol.
If I want to open that site in a tab I just use Ctrl+click or middle-click. That way I'm in control of where the link opens and not the site. Much better.