Ask HN: It is "moral" to copy someone else's idea?
16 comments
That's how virtually all competition is formed in all markets. You wouldn't have "competitors" if they didn't have to at least make a somewhat similar product. If it would be a completely 100% different product, then it wouldn't be a competitor in that market anymore. It would be something else, in its own market...which would also get "similar" competition there.
Patent enforcement is way out of line with how businesses actually work and have worked for millenias.
Patent enforcement is way out of line with how businesses actually work and have worked for millenias.
"I just will feel guilty about screwing over another startup"
I like your confidence. Just by copying their idea, you think you will be able to screw their startup? Think again. It may not be as easy it might appear to you.
But again, should you copy the idea or do it better ? Sure, hell yea. Why not ? Most ideas are anyway a derivative of some other idea.
Stop worrying about this. Go build your stuff and ship it.
I like your confidence. Just by copying their idea, you think you will be able to screw their startup? Think again. It may not be as easy it might appear to you.
But again, should you copy the idea or do it better ? Sure, hell yea. Why not ? Most ideas are anyway a derivative of some other idea.
Stop worrying about this. Go build your stuff and ship it.
When a startup gets cloned, the thing is that it is never just one clone, its is one hundred of them. If this startup is so lucrative and easy to copy, put your game face on the one hundred other competitors... As its your friend, you can work on his defense strategy or your offense strategy.
Copying and doing better isn't as easy as it looks, and has already been mentioned, this is exactly where competitors come from. There's nothing wrong with copying and improving an idea as long as you don't steal anything proprietary (obviously).
Have you heard of Rocket Internet - (Samwer brothers) they have become experts in how to copy recently funded companies although hated by startup communities everywhere. Worth googling them and you will likely find lots of information. They are strong at execution putting alot of money and people on a project from day 1.
If you zoom in on a couple of cases such fab.com or airbnb.com, it is intesting to observe what happened. In Fab.com's case, Rocket internet were getting geared up to copy Fab as Fab was growing fast. Jason Goldberg wrote a letter to all the designers on fab.com and published a post on his own blog saying that it was pointless to copy them. Fab.com deals with designers, and designers hate when people copy them so it was very likely designers wouldn't want to have anything to do with a copy and the rocket clone failed. Airbnb bought smaller competitors, not the rocket clone managing to get around the clone that way.
Then there is the question, "are clones useful?" In some cases, very much so. If a startup wants to expand fast, one avenue it can take is to grow fast in a large city and then acquire the smaller clone startups elsewhere which have already tested how the idea needs to adapt to that context. This would be faster than organic growth.
Lastly, you realise everything is a remix. http://www.everythingisaremix.info/everything-is-a-remix-the... Almost every idea is a copy of the last. I used to work for an extremely famous designer, people always said "he was brilliant at hiding his sources."
If you zoom in on a couple of cases such fab.com or airbnb.com, it is intesting to observe what happened. In Fab.com's case, Rocket internet were getting geared up to copy Fab as Fab was growing fast. Jason Goldberg wrote a letter to all the designers on fab.com and published a post on his own blog saying that it was pointless to copy them. Fab.com deals with designers, and designers hate when people copy them so it was very likely designers wouldn't want to have anything to do with a copy and the rocket clone failed. Airbnb bought smaller competitors, not the rocket clone managing to get around the clone that way.
Then there is the question, "are clones useful?" In some cases, very much so. If a startup wants to expand fast, one avenue it can take is to grow fast in a large city and then acquire the smaller clone startups elsewhere which have already tested how the idea needs to adapt to that context. This would be faster than organic growth.
Lastly, you realise everything is a remix. http://www.everythingisaremix.info/everything-is-a-remix-the... Almost every idea is a copy of the last. I used to work for an extremely famous designer, people always said "he was brilliant at hiding his sources."
There may actually be a good reason why you're feeling guilty. And it may in fact be a better plan to do something else.
You can try the following thought experiment: suppose you follow through on this new business, spend 6 months working on it, and a month after it gets going, someone ELSE copies the idea, does it a little better than you, and your sales go to zero. How will you feel?
You might think, "Well, all's fair in love, war, and startups. I made a good attempt, learned a whole lot, and I got beat fair and square. It doesn't really bother me, that is how the game is played. Now I'll try something else."
Or, you might think, "Wow. I just wasted 6 months. I didn't gain any new skills. I don't feel good about what I did. I wish I had spent that time doing something to improve myself."
Or, you might feel, "I WAS ROBBED. I spent all this time working on a real improvement on web site X, but web site Y just ripped me off and benefited from my 6 months of hard work."
Never mind what you think is the "right" answer - you might be happier in the long run trying to think of something new, or at least spending your efforts on learning something new.
You can try the following thought experiment: suppose you follow through on this new business, spend 6 months working on it, and a month after it gets going, someone ELSE copies the idea, does it a little better than you, and your sales go to zero. How will you feel?
You might think, "Well, all's fair in love, war, and startups. I made a good attempt, learned a whole lot, and I got beat fair and square. It doesn't really bother me, that is how the game is played. Now I'll try something else."
Or, you might think, "Wow. I just wasted 6 months. I didn't gain any new skills. I don't feel good about what I did. I wish I had spent that time doing something to improve myself."
Or, you might feel, "I WAS ROBBED. I spent all this time working on a real improvement on web site X, but web site Y just ripped me off and benefited from my 6 months of hard work."
Never mind what you think is the "right" answer - you might be happier in the long run trying to think of something new, or at least spending your efforts on learning something new.
It depends how far ahead they are. If they are really far into it, it might be more profitable to join them instead and improve their existing product. But that also means revealing to them your intention to do something similar, which may look really bad if you ended up doing your own thing.
My opinion.
My opinion.
Just saw this ad from .co domain, (disclaimer: it's not great.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=a...
Picasso said: "Good Artists Copy, but Great Artists Steal."
Everyone learns from previous generations. Think of copying as a learning process. As one grows, you inject your own variation and create your own masterpiece.
Everyone learns from previous generations. Think of copying as a learning process. As one grows, you inject your own variation and create your own masterpiece.
and Steve Jobs who said that quote in his younger years, but in his later years sued Samsung from stealing from Apple and patented eveyrthing.
The lesson being "Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal,"...but not from me.
The lesson being "Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal,"...but not from me.
Isn't everthing about improving other elses idea? Every startup aims to improve an existing idea, that's the target. Don't feel guilty about it.
I'd go a step further and say it's Immoral of you _not_ to copy the idea and make it your own.
The only time an idea has any value is when it's shared. Copy everything you can and make it better.
Others will in turn copy you and rise to the challenge, or maybe they'll decide that a career change is in order.
Either way, you've made the world a better place.
The only time an idea has any value is when it's shared. Copy everything you can and make it better.
Others will in turn copy you and rise to the challenge, or maybe they'll decide that a career change is in order.
Either way, you've made the world a better place.
Interesting username.
In my opinion, nobody owns an idea. It's not property (nevermind that I have doubt even as to private property).
You can't put bars to prevent people stealing your ideas, and you can never prove that an idea was stolen (unless you think the broken patent system works).
Morally, I would have no problem...
You can't put bars to prevent people stealing your ideas, and you can never prove that an idea was stolen (unless you think the broken patent system works).
Morally, I would have no problem...
If you look harder you'll probably find where they got their idea from.
I think the question should be - Are you passionate about solving "that" problem. Morality should hinge on that. Not the solution.
In the end, its all business.
The problem is now that I've seen their design if I created my own product I cannot help but rip off all of their good ideas, improve all of their weaknesses, and then ultimately screw them over...
As I said, I think I can improve on their design, but I just will feel guilty about screwing over another startup (and stealing their hardwork/research).
Has anyone dealt with this? Did you decide to go ahead with it or did you leave it alone?