Microsoft's DroidRage Twitter campaign goes painfully wrong(zdnet.com)
zdnet.com
Microsoft's DroidRage Twitter campaign goes painfully wrong
http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-droidrage-twitter-campaign-goes-painfully-wrong-7000008450/
103 comments
> this is a total non-story
Worse, it shows a very bad mentality from the so-called 'passionate fan-base', which reeks of Microsoft's own situation on the desktop:
> True, Android malware is a real problem. True, Google needs to do more about blocking malware applications from ever reaching users in the first place via the Google Play Store. But, there's also a lot of Android malware FUD and Android now has over 75% of the smartphone market
This kind of proof-by-horde is a catastrophe. Being the leader in marketshare doesn't make you right, technology is not a democracy: if there's a security flaw in the code or in the process, the flaw is there regardless of the number of users. It reeks of a "good-enough" mentality (of the bad kind, not the "less-is-more" or "worse-is-better" kinds): the one that strings things together, declares "It works!" and goes up in arms when someone dares pointing out the cracks and flaws, especially compared to other (potential or existing) more robust platforms.
This does not make the MS campaign any less awkward, but compare Windows Phone blip on the Android radar to (on desk- and laptops) Linux blip on the Windows radar, and how the rampant malware situation of the Windows ecosystem used to be an argument in favor of Linux. Many of those 'passionate fans' are using the same argument in favor of their mobile platform that they loved to use agains their competitor platform (that, or the Android guys are not Linux guys but the same Windows guys that are so much used to hate Apple that they ran away from the iThings towards Android, and so use the same baseless arguments to justify their decision).
PS: This is solely an argument on the 'fan-base' and the article, not the various past and present capabilities of the platform themselves. If you were reading this comment and thought I was taking sides, reread it while keeping in mind I'm talking about people, not hard+software.
Worse, it shows a very bad mentality from the so-called 'passionate fan-base', which reeks of Microsoft's own situation on the desktop:
> True, Android malware is a real problem. True, Google needs to do more about blocking malware applications from ever reaching users in the first place via the Google Play Store. But, there's also a lot of Android malware FUD and Android now has over 75% of the smartphone market
This kind of proof-by-horde is a catastrophe. Being the leader in marketshare doesn't make you right, technology is not a democracy: if there's a security flaw in the code or in the process, the flaw is there regardless of the number of users. It reeks of a "good-enough" mentality (of the bad kind, not the "less-is-more" or "worse-is-better" kinds): the one that strings things together, declares "It works!" and goes up in arms when someone dares pointing out the cracks and flaws, especially compared to other (potential or existing) more robust platforms.
This does not make the MS campaign any less awkward, but compare Windows Phone blip on the Android radar to (on desk- and laptops) Linux blip on the Windows radar, and how the rampant malware situation of the Windows ecosystem used to be an argument in favor of Linux. Many of those 'passionate fans' are using the same argument in favor of their mobile platform that they loved to use agains their competitor platform (that, or the Android guys are not Linux guys but the same Windows guys that are so much used to hate Apple that they ran away from the iThings towards Android, and so use the same baseless arguments to justify their decision).
PS: This is solely an argument on the 'fan-base' and the article, not the various past and present capabilities of the platform themselves. If you were reading this comment and thought I was taking sides, reread it while keeping in mind I'm talking about people, not hard+software.
Proof by horde is indeed absurd, but the fact that the Android fanbase jumps to this should not be a surprise to Microsoft.
There has been several years of relatively vicious back and forth flaming between iOS fans and Android fans now. A lot of legitimate criticisms have been fired off by both sides, and both sides are very quick to respond with less legitimate but equally vitriolic response-fire. Even people who don't go in for that sort of thing probably cannot help but feel a little defensive about their choice at times.
If Microsoft wants to walk into the room and throw some mud (legitimate mud or otherwise, it doesn't particularly matter), they should expect everyone else in the room to already be pretty practiced throwing mud back. Nothing about this situation should have caught Microsoft by surprise.
Edit: Also, relative market-shares are probably an important thing to consider when your marketing campaign is calling upon people to bash the competition for you. Of course more people are going to respond negatively to this if you are a market-share minority. I am having a hard time imagining a reality where this could have worked out as planned.
There has been several years of relatively vicious back and forth flaming between iOS fans and Android fans now. A lot of legitimate criticisms have been fired off by both sides, and both sides are very quick to respond with less legitimate but equally vitriolic response-fire. Even people who don't go in for that sort of thing probably cannot help but feel a little defensive about their choice at times.
If Microsoft wants to walk into the room and throw some mud (legitimate mud or otherwise, it doesn't particularly matter), they should expect everyone else in the room to already be pretty practiced throwing mud back. Nothing about this situation should have caught Microsoft by surprise.
Edit: Also, relative market-shares are probably an important thing to consider when your marketing campaign is calling upon people to bash the competition for you. Of course more people are going to respond negatively to this if you are a market-share minority. I am having a hard time imagining a reality where this could have worked out as planned.
I think the worst part is that internet culture frames far too many things in terms of epic manichean struggles, when in fact it's looking at tawdry commercial rivalry.
Part of the problem is that unless we're close to a fully equipped test lab, most of us have to make a choice of device and stick with it; because phones especially are still effectively luxury items. That means most people who are most strident in their belief about the superiority of one brand or another, do not have experience with other products ( or at best, superficial experience ).
So, someone who is raging on about their favored brand is trying to justify their own choices and likely has no meaningful experience of the alternatives.
So for expert level trolling, ask them what they think of Palm, or Meego.
Part of the problem is that unless we're close to a fully equipped test lab, most of us have to make a choice of device and stick with it; because phones especially are still effectively luxury items. That means most people who are most strident in their belief about the superiority of one brand or another, do not have experience with other products ( or at best, superficial experience ).
So, someone who is raging on about their favored brand is trying to justify their own choices and likely has no meaningful experience of the alternatives.
So for expert level trolling, ask them what they think of Palm, or Meego.
It's definitely not a weighty story, but certainly worthy of a chuckle due to the cluelessness needed to think the #droidrage campaign was a good idea. On the bright side for Microsoft, more people will actually learn they're selling a phone of some kind.
> This is not newsworthy.
This is one of the largest tech companies in the US running a media campaign to attack one of the other largest public tech company's products. That alone makes it newsworthy. The fact it was such a lame attempt at a time it's crucial for Microsoft to have some marketing success in mobile also makes it newsworthy.
That it was picked up by niche press and turned into a viral wave doesn't negate that. I'm sure (a large) part of Microsoft's intent in this campaign was for it to turn viral and get picked up by media outlets. If it had gone according to their plan and turned into a tidal wave of complaining about Android, I expect they would have hoped for media coverage as part of that.
This is one of the largest tech companies in the US running a media campaign to attack one of the other largest public tech company's products. That alone makes it newsworthy. The fact it was such a lame attempt at a time it's crucial for Microsoft to have some marketing success in mobile also makes it newsworthy.
That it was picked up by niche press and turned into a viral wave doesn't negate that. I'm sure (a large) part of Microsoft's intent in this campaign was for it to turn viral and get picked up by media outlets. If it had gone according to their plan and turned into a tidal wave of complaining about Android, I expect they would have hoped for media coverage as part of that.
This is a good point - making fun of users of a product is a strange way to tempt them over. Samsung's advert making fun of a queue of iPhone buyers is similar in this respect. Notably, Apple adverts don't usually (ever? I have a distant memory of a failed apple campaign that did?) make fun of users of a competing product.
What were the "Mac vs PC" commercials but making fun of PCs?
It's crucial that they made fun of the PC, not PC users. (Remember, it was always "I'm a PC" in the intro.) In doing so, they clearly leveraged some stereotypes about the user base, but they avoided directly mocking the customers of either platform.
That said, I'm not sure this Microsoft campaign mocked anyone either. It didn't have any humor to it, and that's part of why it was such a lame effort. At least Apple's ads had a bit of self deprecation to them in how they depicted the Mac.
That said, I'm not sure this Microsoft campaign mocked anyone either. It didn't have any humor to it, and that's part of why it was such a lame effort. At least Apple's ads had a bit of self deprecation to them in how they depicted the Mac.
They were similar in execution, but the joke was the anthropomorphizing of the idea of a windows pc and a mac.
The Samsung ads however directly target the users as the thing to be lampooned. Rather ad hominem, and not all that appealing of a way to sway me over marketingwise.
The Samsung ads however directly target the users as the thing to be lampooned. Rather ad hominem, and not all that appealing of a way to sway me over marketingwise.
Many times, a story is important not for the reasons that people perceive it to be important. Ironically, I view it as important for exactly the reason you view it as unimportant. Why on earth does Microsoft feel the need to resort to such a pathetic advertising campaign?
> Why on earth does Microsoft feel the need to resort to such a pathetic advertising campaign?
Because building mobile operating systems people want to buy isn't exactly working for them.
I'm not sure why, but in all my exchanges with Microsoft supporters (employees or just fans) I felt a huge sense of entitlement and a rather bizarre perplexity about why they fail so completely on mobile and completely dominating the desktop.
Because building mobile operating systems people want to buy isn't exactly working for them.
I'm not sure why, but in all my exchanges with Microsoft supporters (employees or just fans) I felt a huge sense of entitlement and a rather bizarre perplexity about why they fail so completely on mobile and completely dominating the desktop.
I'm less interested in this as a news story because of the magnitude of the backlash on Twitter and more so because it demonstrates particularly poor judgement on Microsoft's behalf.
> This is not newsworthy.
Of course it is. Don't be ridiculous.
Of course it is. Don't be ridiculous.
I thought its media Generated hype too till I actually did twitter search on DroidRage and found its real.
It helps everyone of us to actually check it before posting an ignorant comment.
It helps everyone of us to actually check it before posting an ignorant comment.
I think the point he/she is trying to make is that it only became as "real" as it is now after the coverage on news sites yesterday. Then everybody decided to jump on the anti-Microsoft sentiment and share their own supposedly funny #DroidRage's.
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I think somebody should study how MS marketing works, make it a case-study. Every time they try to be "hip", they end up looking like fools. Remember that weird Seinfeld ad? The spooky over-polished family for Windows 7? The competition
on "speed-of-opening-apps" on WP7 where nobody was allowed to win?
When they stick to the basics, they usually manage to be half-decent, like for the Windows 8 campaign: safe, completely unremarkable, but at least it didn't blow further holes in the already-tarnished brand.
TL;DR: dear Microsoft, don't try to be hip.
When they stick to the basics, they usually manage to be half-decent, like for the Windows 8 campaign: safe, completely unremarkable, but at least it didn't blow further holes in the already-tarnished brand.
TL;DR: dear Microsoft, don't try to be hip.
The Seinfeld ad is easy to explain: never hire Crispin, Porter and Bogusky to do your ads. I wish I could find the article right now to substantiate this, but IIRC they have been known make it contractual that you will accept their creative without any input. What could possibly go wrong? Ask Groupon.
Whatever the contractual situation, CPB is a train wreck for companies looking to be hip, and they've profited substantially from their image of being the hippest game in town. Ad associations keep giving them awards year after year.
Whatever the contractual situation, CPB is a train wreck for companies looking to be hip, and they've profited substantially from their image of being the hippest game in town. Ad associations keep giving them awards year after year.
Hey, don't go knocking CP+B. Their work for Domino's is top-notch, and their Volkswagen campaign remains some of my favorite advertising period. Meanwhile, while they've had the few early misfires for Microsoft, their work promoting Windows 7 was damn good, and they've done a lot for the Surface considering they don't have a whole lot to work with.
And the Groupon ads were hilarious. Terrible ads, and they should have expected the horrible PR they received, but they were among my favorite Superbowl advertisements to actually watch. More advertisers should be willing to risk PR flack in the service of making something memorable – CP+B's ratio of wins to losses is enormous, which is why they keep landing huge clients.
As for the "accept their creative without input", yeah, advertisers love to find clients willing to give them free range, because clients are often very good at fucking up smart ideas. They don't insist on that contract, though: Groupon's blog mentions that they "gave them a shot at pitching us concepts, and they came up with an idea we couldn’t resist blowing millions of dollars on." [https://blog.groupon.com/cities/groupon-super-bowl-ads/]
And the Groupon ads were hilarious. Terrible ads, and they should have expected the horrible PR they received, but they were among my favorite Superbowl advertisements to actually watch. More advertisers should be willing to risk PR flack in the service of making something memorable – CP+B's ratio of wins to losses is enormous, which is why they keep landing huge clients.
As for the "accept their creative without input", yeah, advertisers love to find clients willing to give them free range, because clients are often very good at fucking up smart ideas. They don't insist on that contract, though: Groupon's blog mentions that they "gave them a shot at pitching us concepts, and they came up with an idea we couldn’t resist blowing millions of dollars on." [https://blog.groupon.com/cities/groupon-super-bowl-ads/]
> Hey, don't go knocking CP+B
I worked at Groupon when they did the Superbowl ads for us. Sorry, I'm reserving that right to knock them. I would put a smiley if I could get my head out of my hands right now.
I worked at Groupon when they did the Superbowl ads for us. Sorry, I'm reserving that right to knock them. I would put a smiley if I could get my head out of my hands right now.
You've forgotten the crown jewel: the video for Vista SP1, "Rockin' Our Sales."[1]
I realize it was meant for internal use only, but good lord, somebody put a lot of work into this thing. It makes me so uncomfortable to watch, and to imagine the culture that might well have embraced this.
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPv8PPl7ANU
I realize it was meant for internal use only, but good lord, somebody put a lot of work into this thing. It makes me so uncomfortable to watch, and to imagine the culture that might well have embraced this.
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPv8PPl7ANU
> It makes me so uncomfortable to watch, and to imagine the culture that might well have embraced this.
I've seen it happen and... it doesn't even need to be a culture, just a high-up exec who had a "genius idea", and showed it to his cat who purred, so he decided to run with it.
Now the culture around tends not to be fantastic, but you only need one person with a debatable sense of everything and high-enough up the chain that he can push stuff without any oversight (let alone undersight from those working under him)
I've seen it happen and... it doesn't even need to be a culture, just a high-up exec who had a "genius idea", and showed it to his cat who purred, so he decided to run with it.
Now the culture around tends not to be fantastic, but you only need one person with a debatable sense of everything and high-enough up the chain that he can push stuff without any oversight (let alone undersight from those working under him)
This is the first time I've ever watched that video and it's clearly not meant to be taken seriously. They crack jokes about how "business people" hold off until SP1. From the expressions on the actors' faces to the lyrics in the song, this was supposed to make you chuckle. It was corny and IMO well written. I'd be worried about the culture that can't figure out where the humor lies in this.
The "Start me up" campaign from Microsoft with the launch of Windows 95 was both really good and hip for the time. That is, however, the only example of good marketing from Microsoft that I can remember.
> The "Start me up" campaign from Microsoft with the launch of Windows 95 was both really good and hip for the time.
I agree.
"You make a grown man cry... "
I agree.
"You make a grown man cry... "
I thought this was "hip" or whatever you want to call it, and pretty clever for a long term hearts-and-minds strategy -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD9FAOPBiDk
thank you, I had not seen this video and I loved it :)
One of my favorite Microsoft ads is Ballmer selling windows 1.0:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
I'll let you be the judge on 'hipness' here.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
I'll let you be the judge on 'hipness' here.
Their marketing's pretty terrible even when they don't try to be hip. To promote Bing, they hired a political strategist who came up with this atrocity -- http://www.scroogled.com/
Political strategist comes up with a smear campaign, nobody saw that coming...
And the funny thing is that they ended up looking like tools even when they used (use?) CP + B, the same ad agency as Apple (and a very good one at that). But as anyone who has watched Mad Men knows, the clients can completely screw up a marketing campaign with their ridiculous demands.
The problem with trying to look hip is that if you have to try in the first place, you're just not hip. This is a problem that seems to have to plagued Microsoft over and over throughout the years.
The problem with trying to look hip is that if you have to try in the first place, you're just not hip. This is a problem that seems to have to plagued Microsoft over and over throughout the years.
A day in the life of an ad agency:
- Get hired by huge company
- Have dozens of creative ideas, present them each to the client
- Get rejected on all fronts
- Have dozens of watered-down ideas, present them each to the client
- They approve one of the ideas, but request X, Y and Z all be changed (most likely watered down)
- Create the idea, send over for approval - Hear nothing back
- Email contact dozens of times hoping for feedback
- Finally hear back with contact saying it's going up the chain of command for approval(most likely lost in the email black hole)
- Someone you've never heard of from the higher ups emails you and asks for a bunch of changes
- Make changes (once again, watering the concept down)
- Realize the ad has nothing unique or creative in it, send it back to client; they love it.
- Cry at desk
- Get hired by huge company
- Have dozens of creative ideas, present them each to the client
- Get rejected on all fronts
- Have dozens of watered-down ideas, present them each to the client
- They approve one of the ideas, but request X, Y and Z all be changed (most likely watered down)
- Create the idea, send over for approval - Hear nothing back
- Email contact dozens of times hoping for feedback
- Finally hear back with contact saying it's going up the chain of command for approval(most likely lost in the email black hole)
- Someone you've never heard of from the higher ups emails you and asks for a bunch of changes
- Make changes (once again, watering the concept down)
- Realize the ad has nothing unique or creative in it, send it back to client; they love it.
- Cry at desk
wow, sounds like "a day in the life of a designer/developer". Give dozens of really useful, creative ideas - only to see them shot down, or worse watered down
The Oatmeal does a good job breaking this whole thing down -- http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell
"London will always have a need for more prostitutes and more copywriters." (cit)
> CP + B, the same ad agency as Apple
Uhm, no it's not. Apple has used Chiat/Day since the 80s.
Uhm, no it's not. Apple has used Chiat/Day since the 80s.
Their newest ads are pretty awesome. Surface's dancing ad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB5txqIl8jQ, the IE9 dubstep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFE4rkSaKOY, the IE10 troll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD9FAOPBiDk, and the various Windows 8 international musical ads (the wave after the countdown ad) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xurEdYsEne4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giZcbCh4CtU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvHin1UmQOI are definitely a step way up from previous ad campaigns that Microsoft launched.
All in all, the Windows 8 ads are IMO fresh, and definitely leaning more towards the younger adult hip side. And they're pulling it off pretty nicely.
All in all, the Windows 8 ads are IMO fresh, and definitely leaning more towards the younger adult hip side. And they're pulling it off pretty nicely.
Surely the best Microsoft ad ever has to be the Songsmith one? It's just so, so awful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oGFogwcx-E&feature=yout...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oGFogwcx-E&feature=yout...
Totally agree. One of the things I hate is their attempt to market design quality (in Surface specifically). They have a serious chicken-egg problem they need to address. The reason Apple's design is so successful is that the creatives of the world loved it. It then slowly gained enough inertia for it to be considered a marketing tool. Not the other way around.
This is my overall proposal for MS changing their ways wrt Surface: http://www.techdisruptive.com/2012/12/03/dear-microsoft-let-...
This is my overall proposal for MS changing their ways wrt Surface: http://www.techdisruptive.com/2012/12/03/dear-microsoft-let-...
Don't forget the mocking of Windows 7 party tips (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cX4t5-YpHQ). My personal favorite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g...
Some WP ads were great. "Really?" was simple and to the point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9evyGr57hs
Internet Explorer karaoke wasn't bad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD9FAOPBiDk
Internet Explorer karaoke wasn't bad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD9FAOPBiDk
> TL;DR: dear Microsoft, don't try to be hip.
No! It's fun to watch them try!
No! It's fun to watch them try!
>The competition on "speed-of-opening-apps" on WP7 where nobody was allowed to win?
That's wrong. Even before that specific incident, they did give out prizes to people who won, and there were multiple winners before and after. That particular incident might have been about one particular employee but certainly was not widespread. Guess which incident makes it into the news and onto HN front page?
That's wrong. Even before that specific incident, they did give out prizes to people who won, and there were multiple winners before and after. That particular incident might have been about one particular employee but certainly was not widespread. Guess which incident makes it into the news and onto HN front page?
So a handful of contrary tweets now count as backlash? Oh please. This is the problem when any journalist tries to use twitter to provide an angle to a story: you can always cherry pick enough tweets to justify whatever narrative you wish to push. Without hard numbers this article is completely meaningless.
The funny thing is, there are plenty of things I don't like about Android. Areas where Windows might provide a better user experience.
But malware fearmongering is a bizarre tactic. For the vast vast vast majority of users, it's a hypothetical rather than an actual experience.
But malware fearmongering is a bizarre tactic. For the vast vast vast majority of users, it's a hypothetical rather than an actual experience.
Considering most windows users live in a sea of malware and I have yet to see a personal computer from one of my users that wasn't deeply infested, what makes MS think people actually care?
I hate that the WP product team, which has done a bang-up job, has to deal with incompetent marketing like this. Android has many, many unresolved and probably unresolvable problems. Buying a Nexus model solves most of these problems, but wow, what a goddamn mess Touchwiz and Sense based phones are. I had to wipe my wife's SGS2 and put CM9 on there just to stop a mystery battery drain that made her phone useless, even after many factory resets. Samsung blamed google and google blamed samsung and t-mobile blamed everyone but themselves. Way, way too many chefs here.
Apple and MS get it. You don't give carriers and OEM control over your mobile OS, because they will be poor stewards of it. Once my Nexus gets long in the tooth I might move to WP8. It looks pretty sharp.
I hate that the WP product team, which has done a bang-up job, has to deal with incompetent marketing like this. Android has many, many unresolved and probably unresolvable problems. Buying a Nexus model solves most of these problems, but wow, what a goddamn mess Touchwiz and Sense based phones are. I had to wipe my wife's SGS2 and put CM9 on there just to stop a mystery battery drain that made her phone useless, even after many factory resets. Samsung blamed google and google blamed samsung and t-mobile blamed everyone but themselves. Way, way too many chefs here.
Apple and MS get it. You don't give carriers and OEM control over your mobile OS, because they will be poor stewards of it. Once my Nexus gets long in the tooth I might move to WP8. It looks pretty sharp.
TBH I've only seen a couple of "rotten" machines in the last few years. It's not all that bad.
Regarding WP, it's a fucking mess. I've had two handsets now and while it's a good product at the core, some of the decisions (such as isolated storage) are just shit. It's virtually impossible moving data around apps except using cut and paste or network access. Also, the network and connection management stuff is painful if you have to switch between 3.5G and WiFi. The battery life on my last handset (a Lumia 710) was abysmal even with no apps installed and everything cleaned out. Oh and long term support is just crap - look at the palava around the 7.8 upgrade.
My other half's Galaxy Ace is actually pretty crap as well TouchWiz is horrible, it's slow and the screen is crap. Everyone I know with a Galaxy S2/S3 is not satisfied with it.
I got given an iPhone 4S as well (which the proximity sensor had packed in on) which was horrible as well - iOS UI is so noisy, the handset is obviously suspect if the proximity sensor doesn't even work (didn't work properly from purchase date) and you can't even replace the battery.
All this pushed me back to grabbing a Nokia 6303 until I found out that the things are changing hands for £100GBP+ now from people who have given up on SmartPhones.
It's all gone batshit.
I just want a phone that works.
Regarding WP, it's a fucking mess. I've had two handsets now and while it's a good product at the core, some of the decisions (such as isolated storage) are just shit. It's virtually impossible moving data around apps except using cut and paste or network access. Also, the network and connection management stuff is painful if you have to switch between 3.5G and WiFi. The battery life on my last handset (a Lumia 710) was abysmal even with no apps installed and everything cleaned out. Oh and long term support is just crap - look at the palava around the 7.8 upgrade.
My other half's Galaxy Ace is actually pretty crap as well TouchWiz is horrible, it's slow and the screen is crap. Everyone I know with a Galaxy S2/S3 is not satisfied with it.
I got given an iPhone 4S as well (which the proximity sensor had packed in on) which was horrible as well - iOS UI is so noisy, the handset is obviously suspect if the proximity sensor doesn't even work (didn't work properly from purchase date) and you can't even replace the battery.
All this pushed me back to grabbing a Nokia 6303 until I found out that the things are changing hands for £100GBP+ now from people who have given up on SmartPhones.
It's all gone batshit.
I just want a phone that works.
Nokia 6303 eh?
- MicroSD card - 3.5mm headphone jack - basic camera - basic video recorder - FM Radio
Perhaps an Orange Rio or Rio2 would do instead? ZTE with orange branding and Java based apps. Reasonable alpha keyboard and quite cheap in UK.
- MicroSD card - 3.5mm headphone jack - basic camera - basic video recorder - FM Radio
Perhaps an Orange Rio or Rio2 would do instead? ZTE with orange branding and Java based apps. Reasonable alpha keyboard and quite cheap in UK.
Good suggestion, but unfortunately I have banana fingers so can't use qwerty phones that well. T9 still works for me though :)
I have smallish hands (octave+2 on piano) and large fingers (official from my accordion teacher) and I can take a photo and pop it out as an attachment to an email with caption single handed from the ancient Rio or my current Blackberry. Each to his/her own.
I have a iphone 4 and it just works, good reception, 3g, wifi, gps/igo, battery life, ux, i'm totally happy with it. I even dropped it and drove over it accidentally, so the back looks like shit but orherwise it just took it.
I own a Galaxy S (first gen) with Touchwiz-enabled Android 2.3.6 on it.
My next phone is going to be a Nexus, but the first generation of Galaxy S is the best phone I ever owned and it replaced my iPhone 3GS. Battery life lasts for 4 days of normal usage, after I installed an app from Google Play that disables data/wifi when in standby or at night, otherwise it lasts for 2 days.
I tried upgrading, but battery life is too important to me and the device is too under-powered for newer Android versions, not to mention that all Exynos devices, such as the Galaxy S family, have problems with custom ROMs like CyanogenMod because of a lack of source-code for drivers. Phones like Sony Xperia T are much, much better in this regard.
Also I discovered that even though Jelly Bean is completely awesome when it comes to UI and new features, it doesn't really do anything groundbreaking that my Gingerbread doesn't do. I do have 2 or 3 apps that have been bundled by Samsung, but I just ignore them. Considering that I got the phone for $20 on a reasonable contract, it was a steal anyway.
And can your Windows Phone or your iOS device block phone calls / sms messages? Can it save battery life by turning data on or off on schedule? Can it run Firefox? I thought so.
My next phone is going to be a Nexus, but the first generation of Galaxy S is the best phone I ever owned and it replaced my iPhone 3GS. Battery life lasts for 4 days of normal usage, after I installed an app from Google Play that disables data/wifi when in standby or at night, otherwise it lasts for 2 days.
I tried upgrading, but battery life is too important to me and the device is too under-powered for newer Android versions, not to mention that all Exynos devices, such as the Galaxy S family, have problems with custom ROMs like CyanogenMod because of a lack of source-code for drivers. Phones like Sony Xperia T are much, much better in this regard.
Also I discovered that even though Jelly Bean is completely awesome when it comes to UI and new features, it doesn't really do anything groundbreaking that my Gingerbread doesn't do. I do have 2 or 3 apps that have been bundled by Samsung, but I just ignore them. Considering that I got the phone for $20 on a reasonable contract, it was a steal anyway.
And can your Windows Phone or your iOS device block phone calls / sms messages? Can it save battery life by turning data on or off on schedule? Can it run Firefox? I thought so.
Fearmongering, alas, doesn't require much in the way of actual experience. Look at American perception of crime versus actual crime rates. Fear of flying versus actual risk. Or the amount of money we spend "fighting" "terrorism" versus actual harm.
I suspect a campaign like this could have worked if Microsoft didn't have a giant pot/kettle problem.
I suspect a campaign like this could have worked if Microsoft didn't have a giant pot/kettle problem.
It's not bizarre if WP doesn't actually improve on any of those areas.
Honestly, what were they thinking? Android has a large userbase with plenty of fanboys (I'm one of them). This is just another case of large corporations treating social media like another advertising platform instead of using it to interface with customers.
Win8 was a great idea (same interface on all of my devices? Great!) but Microsoft has really dropped the ball. I'm glad someone did it, now who's going to do it right?
Win8 was a great idea (same interface on all of my devices? Great!) but Microsoft has really dropped the ball. I'm glad someone did it, now who's going to do it right?
This reminds me of the #MuslimRage backfire that Newsweek got after publishing a controversial story about, well, "Muslim Rage", and asking Twitter users to use that hashtag to, I guess, talk about their own opinions of Muslim Rage:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/17/161315765/mus...
Here's a social-media-tip: If you are the progenitor of an idea/product, people are automatically wary of self-promotional antics. If your self-promotional antics involve asking others to do your dirty work: i.e. bash the competition, your self-promotional antics will likely backfire on you. People generally don't like negative emotions when they're using social media...except in the Schadenfreude of watching things backfire, especially when the victim is a big corporation.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/17/161315765/mus...
Here's a social-media-tip: If you are the progenitor of an idea/product, people are automatically wary of self-promotional antics. If your self-promotional antics involve asking others to do your dirty work: i.e. bash the competition, your self-promotional antics will likely backfire on you. People generally don't like negative emotions when they're using social media...except in the Schadenfreude of watching things backfire, especially when the victim is a big corporation.
#muslimrage backfire was classy and funny and worth the read.
#[an]droidrage tweets, not so much.
#[an]droidrage tweets, not so much.
I think the problem Microsoft has is that FUD is in their DNA. I worked well 10 years ago.
Seriously maleware on Android? I install a lot of crappy apps and one abused notifications for promotions.
This coming from Microsoft is reality satire. Now they call their phone "windows" and the tag you should use is "droidrage". It never occurred to anybody there this could be a bad idea?
Seriously maleware on Android? I install a lot of crappy apps and one abused notifications for promotions.
This coming from Microsoft is reality satire. Now they call their phone "windows" and the tag you should use is "droidrage". It never occurred to anybody there this could be a bad idea?
Microsoft completely underestimated what the public still thinks of their brand when they start to fling the shit. Gonna be a loooooong time before they shake the reputation of being that company who makes the bloated OS/malware everywhere/Clippy.
After all these years, Microsoft still needs to get on the Cluetrain. With worldwide instantaneous one-to-many, one-to-one, and many-to-one communication available to the masses, business these days has to be a conversation, not a monolog.
http://www.cluetrain.com/
"A powerful global conversation has begun. Through the Internet, people are discovering and inventing new ways to share relevant knowledge with blinding speed. As a direct result, markets are getting smarter—and getting smarter faster than most companies.
"These markets are conversations. Their members communicate in language that is natural, open, honest, direct, funny and often shocking. Whether explaining or complaining, joking or serious, the human voice is unmistakably genuine. It can't be faked.
"Most corporations, on the other hand, only know how to talk in the soothing, humorless monotone of the mission statement, marketing brochure, and your-call-is-important-to-us busy signal. Same old tone, same old lies. No wonder networked markets have no respect for companies unable or unwilling to speak as they do."
Of course, just now as I use the Google Play store, I'm reminded that the king of search still needs to improve the search capabilities of its own online store. Everyone in the industry has more to learn from customers.
http://www.cluetrain.com/
"A powerful global conversation has begun. Through the Internet, people are discovering and inventing new ways to share relevant knowledge with blinding speed. As a direct result, markets are getting smarter—and getting smarter faster than most companies.
"These markets are conversations. Their members communicate in language that is natural, open, honest, direct, funny and often shocking. Whether explaining or complaining, joking or serious, the human voice is unmistakably genuine. It can't be faked.
"Most corporations, on the other hand, only know how to talk in the soothing, humorless monotone of the mission statement, marketing brochure, and your-call-is-important-to-us busy signal. Same old tone, same old lies. No wonder networked markets have no respect for companies unable or unwilling to speak as they do."
Of course, just now as I use the Google Play store, I'm reminded that the king of search still needs to improve the search capabilities of its own online store. Everyone in the industry has more to learn from customers.
Microsoft's hit and mostly miss marketing aside, the company itself is pretty open and engaged for one of it's size. Lots of employee blogs, hosted forums, public bug trackers, early and long-running open betas. They'd been crowdsourcing crash dumps for years before anyone knew what "crowdsourcing" was.
I'm afraid I don't keep myself well-informed on the mobile space, and I've heard reference to malware in Android several times recently. Could someone fill me in? Is there fear of malicious software at the system level? Or is this just FUD about spammy apps?
edit: Also - it's unfortunate that only yesterday was I reading about the Scroogle campaign. Not to single out Microsoft as the only company that advertises like this, but it's sad to see them sinking to that level...
edit: Also - it's unfortunate that only yesterday was I reading about the Scroogle campaign. Not to single out Microsoft as the only company that advertises like this, but it's sad to see them sinking to that level...
It's just spammy apps. There are very few apps that actively exploit open bugs to elevate their rights, and then mostly to facilitate jailbreaking :)
The problem of course is the screwed up rights system. Instead of presenting a big list of permissions for every app on install, how about you just ask me directly if the app is about to send a text to some number not in my contact list?
The problem of course is the screwed up rights system. Instead of presenting a big list of permissions for every app on install, how about you just ask me directly if the app is about to send a text to some number not in my contact list?
Between exploits and spam, there is also the possibility of phishing. I have heard of fake Yahoo Mail apps making the rounds but couldn't find them - maybe that was outside of the Play Market (it was in Asia, where Yahoo is big).
All device permissions should be opt-in from a checklist on first launch, and there should be an option to make your device pretend to opt-in but use fake data. "Can such-and-such app use your location?" "Sure, I am in the middle of the Pacific."
Companies highlighting problems in their competitors has been standard practice for as long as I can remember. Can we stop with the Microsoft bashing for things that everyone does? It's really sad to see HN jump on these hate-bandwagons.
It's the same user installed stuff that is problematic elsewhere, but it is apparently really happening:
http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/12/sophisticated-botnet...
http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/12/sophisticated-botnet...
Well, I can't speak of Android malware in general but from my personal experience of owning both a phone and tablet with Android the idea of malware has never crossed my mind.
Then again, I don't worry much about malware on Windows because I pay attention to what I'm doing.
Then again, I don't worry much about malware on Windows because I pay attention to what I'm doing.
You can accuse or compliment microsoft on many things, but they've never been slick.
This is just confirmation bias, the "slick" Microsoft isn't newsworthy.
It's a shame when companies cannot let their products speak for themselves, and rather than showing off the positive aspects of their product they have to resort to (trying to) belittle the competition. Are Microsoft now using the same PR firms that they use for the Presidential elections who specialize in this kind of mud-slinging?
It was obvious this was going to happen, what really did they expect? Even if they had a few stories come through, they are all but drowned out by everyone else. Funny they did not run a #iPhoneRage campaign... although there is still time yet!
It was obvious this was going to happen, what really did they expect? Even if they had a few stories come through, they are all but drowned out by everyone else. Funny they did not run a #iPhoneRage campaign... although there is still time yet!
>Are Microsoft now using the same PR firms that they use for the Presidential elections who specialize in this kind of mud-slinging
You might find this relevant: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4887574
I'd read the same thing elsewhere yesterday, when I looked for it, all I could find was dan's comment.
You might find this relevant: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4887574
I'd read the same thing elsewhere yesterday, when I looked for it, all I could find was dan's comment.
Thanks for that. Would make a lot of sense if this were true though!
The only problem I see it that MS win either way.
Not that I like MS, I don't, but all these companies [http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2011/10/24/does-microsof...] produce androids and have to give MS money. So MS doesn't really care who wins in the Android vs WP game, just that it is one of them.
I guess am not the only one that thinks Microsoft's marketing strategy is and has always been pure garbage.
You'd think they would have grown out of this pathetic style a long time ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sforhbLiwLA
You'd think they would have grown out of this pathetic style a long time ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sforhbLiwLA
You realize that was an internal spoof, right?
I think this speaks towards a lack of confidence in the winphone product, at least on the part of the marketeers behind this campaign.
To go on the attack as part of your campaign says that you're feeling defensive and negative about your own position and that you've run out of positives to trumpet.
To go on the attack as part of your campaign says that you're feeling defensive and negative about your own position and that you've run out of positives to trumpet.
This is just the sort of thing that could have been avoided with some time spent researching the Android-oriented web sites and forums. No current mobile platform is without flaws but assuming that everyone thinks alike with regards to those flaws is just foolish.
What an excellent example of how not to do things. Always operate your business with integrity and you cannot lose.
And people ask me why start-ups aren't getting into bed with Microsoft these days... Because who wants a company like this as your biggest partner?
And people ask me why start-ups aren't getting into bed with Microsoft these days... Because who wants a company like this as your biggest partner?
I couldn't read past the Steven J byline. That guy has lost all credibility, in my opinion.
I know this comment doesn't particularly reflect the quality of the article, but it does have some meat to it. Steven J Vaughan-Nichols has a deep history of entirely one-sided, poorly written articles that bash Microsoft and boast Linux beyond all reasonable means. He likes to cherry-pick results many times to support his reasoning.
Since I believe the author alone affects the quality of the article, I can fully see where seeing his name automatically causes the quality to dwindle.
Since I believe the author alone affects the quality of the article, I can fully see where seeing his name automatically causes the quality to dwindle.
Thanks. I think your comment above should be posted as a disclaimer on every post he writes that makes it to HN.
I've never seen a facebook or twitter campaign not going terribly wrong.
I've actually seen a lot of successful twitter campaigns. Barack Obama has had a few good runs during the campaign (with #forward2012) and recently with #my2k to push his side of the fiscal cliff issue.
Any twitter campaign will have participants who try to hijack the campaign for the opposing view. However, Obama has a strong enough base (I mean, ~50% of voters cast a ballet for him, and he does have a stronger hold on the younger, more-likely-to-tweet demographic) participating to drown out the hijackers.
The problem with this Windows campaign (I mean, besides that they tried the exact same thing before and failed) is that they specifically preclude their most devout supporters from participating. Anyone who is a die-hard Windows Phone fan has probably switched to WP when it was first available, and some probably have never touched android (I mean, they might have held onto Windows CE - anybody remember that? - until the first WP came out). In addition, anyone already using the latest WP hardware has no reason to tweet in order to win a free phone they already own.
So given this situation where MS's strong supporters have no content or reason to tweet, guess who rises up to fill the dead space? This campaign failed because it was designed to fail.
Any twitter campaign will have participants who try to hijack the campaign for the opposing view. However, Obama has a strong enough base (I mean, ~50% of voters cast a ballet for him, and he does have a stronger hold on the younger, more-likely-to-tweet demographic) participating to drown out the hijackers.
The problem with this Windows campaign (I mean, besides that they tried the exact same thing before and failed) is that they specifically preclude their most devout supporters from participating. Anyone who is a die-hard Windows Phone fan has probably switched to WP when it was first available, and some probably have never touched android (I mean, they might have held onto Windows CE - anybody remember that? - until the first WP came out). In addition, anyone already using the latest WP hardware has no reason to tweet in order to win a free phone they already own.
So given this situation where MS's strong supporters have no content or reason to tweet, guess who rises up to fill the dead space? This campaign failed because it was designed to fail.
I can only imagine the corporate decision process behind this disaster: some big kahuna pushing this idiocy with everybody else too scared/apathetic to oppose.
I don't think this will be chalked down as a total failure. With the low market share that WP has, there's no such thing as bad publicity.
Did Microsoft recently hire Karl Rove as head of marketing? This is classic push polling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll
Be mindful of your glass house, Microsofties.
The best tweet was
I tried to install Hotmail app and guess what it contained Malware.
I tried to install Hotmail app and guess what it contained Malware.
What the hell were they expecting?
NOBODY expects the robotic liberation! [1]
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8
(I am aware this will rightfully get modded down but sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do)
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8
(I am aware this will rightfully get modded down but sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do)
Yesterday, some other tech news site declared something like Microsoft's "DroidRage" campaign EXPLODES in their face. In their article, they quote over a half dozen tweets.
So I go onto Twitter and do a search for DroidRage and this "explosion" is actually more like a dozen or two people having fun with Microsoft.
Anyway, after the publishing of yesterday's article and it's subsequent posting on TechMeme and the Twittersphere, #DroigRage replies explode with everyone trying to get their Seinfeld moment.
Look, I think Microsoft's campaign and that kind of marketing are awful. Ballmer and their marketing dept should be wiped clean. You're alienating loyalists of whatever product you're making fun of. But this is a total non-story. It's more of a meme and a chance to stick One More Thing on Microsoft. This is not newsworthy.