Why aren't we all using Japanese toilets?(priceonomics.com)
priceonomics.com
Why aren't we all using Japanese toilets?
http://priceonomics.com/toilets/#japanese
371 comments
Every one of these articles gets the pitch of these toilets completely wrong - for every person, and in every scenario, these are not universally better.
Consider the following experiment:
Smear some mud on your arm. Now, using a jet stream the power of a squirt gun and very low precision, wash it all off in 10 seconds. Not so easy. Then - imagine if you put mud on a place with hair! Not only will it not be clean without some actual washing, we haven't even gotten to the drying part yet.
Fact of the matter is, these do not replace toilet paper. I thought they were OK (Google) until I decided to use toilet paper after - and I was shocked and disappointed. My routine simply got longer and more complex, with a small value add of washing with water instead of dry paper.
Sorry about the grim detail - I think the 'squeamish about bathroom routine' point of the article is right - just in the wrong way!
Consider the following experiment:
Smear some mud on your arm. Now, using a jet stream the power of a squirt gun and very low precision, wash it all off in 10 seconds. Not so easy. Then - imagine if you put mud on a place with hair! Not only will it not be clean without some actual washing, we haven't even gotten to the drying part yet.
Fact of the matter is, these do not replace toilet paper. I thought they were OK (Google) until I decided to use toilet paper after - and I was shocked and disappointed. My routine simply got longer and more complex, with a small value add of washing with water instead of dry paper.
Sorry about the grim detail - I think the 'squeamish about bathroom routine' point of the article is right - just in the wrong way!
Americans, by and large, are quite bizarre when it comes to discussing anything that takes place below the belt.
When I mentioned working at Google, I have had multiple people say to me, "I heard the founders at Google are OBSESSED with toilets and import special models from Japan." As if one has to be stark raving mad to use a modern toilet from Japan, instead of the old fashioned toilet which was probably imported from China anyway.
When I mentioned working at Google, I have had multiple people say to me, "I heard the founders at Google are OBSESSED with toilets and import special models from Japan." As if one has to be stark raving mad to use a modern toilet from Japan, instead of the old fashioned toilet which was probably imported from China anyway.
$15 in parts from your local hardware store gets you the basic tools you need to build a water-powered hygiene system.
All you need is the "spray head" with flexible hose [0], plus the adaptor to make a kitchen part fit the bathroom piping (for some reason, kitchen and bathroom have non-interchangeable parts).
You hang it on a hook next to the toilet, and you use it to clean yourself. I cannot live without these, and I intensely regret any overnight trips to a hotel or other place that does not have such an amenity. I regularly recommend and sometimes even buy and install these for friends and family.
The USA is still living in the dark ages when it comes to some parts of self-hygiene.
0: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21PJ48yqYmL._SL500_AA3...
All you need is the "spray head" with flexible hose [0], plus the adaptor to make a kitchen part fit the bathroom piping (for some reason, kitchen and bathroom have non-interchangeable parts).
You hang it on a hook next to the toilet, and you use it to clean yourself. I cannot live without these, and I intensely regret any overnight trips to a hotel or other place that does not have such an amenity. I regularly recommend and sometimes even buy and install these for friends and family.
The USA is still living in the dark ages when it comes to some parts of self-hygiene.
0: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21PJ48yqYmL._SL500_AA3...
How does one go about cleaning these? It always seemed to me that, if the nozzle got dirty, then they could cause more problems than they solve. Especially (to quote the article) if it's spraying the "female genital area." If there's any bacteria on that nozzle, and since it's been in a toilet for any number of years I'd guess there might be, surely there'd be a risk of it causing UTIs and the like?
The US is a notoriously price-sensitive market. For a lot of folks, they wouldn't consider paying $1000+ for a toilet when the most basic American Standard can be found for about $125. A lot of people would find it hard to justify an order of magnitude price increase.
I know Boston has a Toto showroom in its North End, but I really cant consider it due to the rules of my apartment building.
I know Boston has a Toto showroom in its North End, but I really cant consider it due to the rules of my apartment building.
I might in the paranoid minority on this, but here are some concerns I have:
* How does the toilet know that everything is clean? With toilet paper, you can just wipe with new toilet paper until there is no more residue.
* What is the algorithm for the toilet's spraying? Does it end up spreading diluted feces around, or is it careful to spray outward-in?
* What happens if feces end up on the nozzle? Is there some kind of auto-cleaning mechanism? Otherwise it might end up spraying old feces back to me.
* How does the toilet know that everything is clean? With toilet paper, you can just wipe with new toilet paper until there is no more residue.
* What is the algorithm for the toilet's spraying? Does it end up spreading diluted feces around, or is it careful to spray outward-in?
* What happens if feces end up on the nozzle? Is there some kind of auto-cleaning mechanism? Otherwise it might end up spraying old feces back to me.
The odd thing is, in Turkey we universally have a nozzle on the back of the toilet that just is a stream of water that falls in an arc forwards. You control it from a tap on the side, on the wall. You turn on the stream and then angle yourself onto it, or wet your toilet paper a bit when wiping.
Way less toilet paper (just to wipe&dry at the end), cleans way faster, your bum is not itchy, and it costs nothing. The toilet bowls come with this.
I hate American toilets. This can't just be a Turkish quirk, right?
Way less toilet paper (just to wipe&dry at the end), cleans way faster, your bum is not itchy, and it costs nothing. The toilet bowls come with this.
I hate American toilets. This can't just be a Turkish quirk, right?
The US population seems rather stubborn regarding toilet habits. This is anecdotal, but I knew a guy who interned about a decade ago with a company that produces a lot of toilet paper here in the US. He told me that they had internally developed forms of "wet" toilet paper that were pretty much superior to the dry kind in every way (think of the difference in trying to clean off your hands with a dry paper towel and a wet wipe of some kind), and IIRC they thought they could produce them in a way that wouldn't cause a substantial price hike, but whenever they did tests consumers almost universally hated the feeling, and regardless of how much better/easier they cleaned, they basically refused to consider them. Which is a shame, since dry paper really isn't the best cleaning tool...
I recently started using a squat toilet. Never has number two gone so well. Apparently it's the position we're best designed for. Provides a great hip flexor stretch too.
I use a lillipad: http://www.lillipad.co.nz/
It converts any normal toilet into an optional squat toilet. I don't think it would work with these warm-water jet toilets though.
If you have any issues with your bowel movements (constipation, diarrhea, both), you owe it to yourself to try a squat toilet.
I use a lillipad: http://www.lillipad.co.nz/
It converts any normal toilet into an optional squat toilet. I don't think it would work with these warm-water jet toilets though.
If you have any issues with your bowel movements (constipation, diarrhea, both), you owe it to yourself to try a squat toilet.
While I find bidet toilets incredibly useful, I don't understand why this is such a sudden revelation. The French invented these toilets in the 18th century: they were/are in wide use in Europe, middle east, and I've even encountered a few in Canadian hotels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet). Is there something fundamentally different about Japanese bidets (other than integration into the toilet itself)?
Try using a toilet in Germany. Without being too crass, you deposit your excrement onto a dry shelf, whereupon it may be inspected, or not, and then a rush of water slides it off the shelf to its destination.
What I really miss from Japan are the toilets with a sink on top of the water container on the back (something like this: http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/profile-toilet.jpg). You flush the toilet and the water refilling the container comes out of a faucet for you to wash your hands real quick and the water going down the drain fills the container up for the next flush. It seems so simple and helps save a tiny bit of water every trip to the bathroom. Now if only Japanese bathrooms started providing their own soap so I wouldn't have to bring my own everywhere...
I imagine it's to do with price, at least for public toilets.
Here in the UK , we can't have nice things because someone will just take the liberty of smashing it to pieces for you.
For what I have heard about places like Tokyo; you have vending machines for just about all of your needs, fancy toilets and video game arcades have actual chairs to sit on while you play the machines.
None of these things would last 5 minutes in the UK.
Here in the UK , we can't have nice things because someone will just take the liberty of smashing it to pieces for you.
For what I have heard about places like Tokyo; you have vending machines for just about all of your needs, fancy toilets and video game arcades have actual chairs to sit on while you play the machines.
None of these things would last 5 minutes in the UK.
Flushable wet wipes changed my bathroom life. I now don't even consider doing my business without them. Way cheaper than installing a bidet, and I would argue it's more effective, too.
I mean, seriously. Forget about hyper-tech stuff and get a normal bidet and learn how to wash your ass properly. That's pretty much all you need to improve your life and it will cost way less than 500$.
I'm sure it's because Americans have funny attitudes. Programmers, who spend lots of time sitting, should see this as a way of increasing comfort during work time. For the same reason and others (prevalence of pizza at meet ups) programmers should consider modest amounts of fiber supplements like Metamucil. (Not like a conventional laxative at all, and it enables your GI tract to handle just about anything you throw at it gracefully, so long as you get enough water.)
"These exquisite toilets are everywhere in Japan"
Really? I was there for 5 days last spring and never encountered one of these toilets. I did, however, encounter a hole in the ground, you gotta squat to do a number two public toilet stall.
Really? I was there for 5 days last spring and never encountered one of these toilets. I did, however, encounter a hole in the ground, you gotta squat to do a number two public toilet stall.
As a cheaper alternative, you can try these two things:
- A foot-stool to place your feet on so you are in a more natural position which seems to help with the flow of things and could reduce the amount of cleanup required. See "Going to the Bathroom 2.0" - http://youtu.be/0WQaqeC_wME
- And flushable baby wipes.
Simple but very effective.
- A foot-stool to place your feet on so you are in a more natural position which seems to help with the flow of things and could reduce the amount of cleanup required. See "Going to the Bathroom 2.0" - http://youtu.be/0WQaqeC_wME
- And flushable baby wipes.
Simple but very effective.
I live in Canada and if that water isn't heated before coming in contact with my hiney I can assure you that it'll be too cold for comfort at least in the winter.
In a humid/muggy environment I didn't know how I lived without Japanese toilets. I secretly wished we'd lost WW2 after I visited Tokyo the first time :)
It's too expensive. $1000 vs a typical $100 toilet. Cleaning this thing is an extra hassle. The psychological aversion of having some liquid spraying FROM the toilet adds to the lack of interest.
I don't use those because I prefer the 3 shells.
Although I've never used one the Japanese toilets, I would be a huge fan of the heated seat portion. If I had the money, that would be a feature I'd enjoy.
Although I've never used one the Japanese toilets, I would be a huge fan of the heated seat portion. If I had the money, that would be a feature I'd enjoy.
You don't need high tech. You just needs some pipes and a water hose; AKA: "shattaf". It's quite common in the middle east.
Unfortunately these are not easy to install in houses built in a North American style, because there are no floor drains in the toilet, so if you install a "shattaf" the floor will eventually soak in water; keeping it clean and dry is very annoying and difficult.
I don't understand why people in the West use toilet papers instead of washing.
When I have to use toilet papers, I will also use flushable wet wipes.
Unfortunately these are not easy to install in houses built in a North American style, because there are no floor drains in the toilet, so if you install a "shattaf" the floor will eventually soak in water; keeping it clean and dry is very annoying and difficult.
I don't understand why people in the West use toilet papers instead of washing.
When I have to use toilet papers, I will also use flushable wet wipes.
Another place in San Francisco that has Japanese toilets? Our company, GREE International. And we're hiring :)
http://gree-corp.com/jobs
http://gree-corp.com/jobs
About a year ago I installed a bidet in my bathroom. It's the one pictured towards the bottom of this article, and I bought it on amazon. I use it and "cloth toilet paper" for my butt-cleaning. It's great.
The water washes me clean. Often 100% and always most of the way. It took a bit to get the hang of it: to get a good wash I find it helps to clench my butt muscles and wiggle on the seat. After 5-10 seconds, I wipe with the cloth: old t-shirts cut into ~4x8" rectangles. The water does a much better job of cleaning than toilet paper.
When I first had the bidet I used toilet paper after the spray to dry off. It was only slightly less miserable than having a waterlogged ass. I needed twice as much paper to dry myself off as I would have used to wipe.
For a while I hung an old microfiber towel next to the toilet and used that, but "oh, that's just my butt-towel…" is an interesting conversation to have. So I cut up some old shirts. They go into a bucket after use and I wash them regularly. The cloth is what makes it work.
I can only imagine what it would be like to have a blowdryer down there.
The water washes me clean. Often 100% and always most of the way. It took a bit to get the hang of it: to get a good wash I find it helps to clench my butt muscles and wiggle on the seat. After 5-10 seconds, I wipe with the cloth: old t-shirts cut into ~4x8" rectangles. The water does a much better job of cleaning than toilet paper.
When I first had the bidet I used toilet paper after the spray to dry off. It was only slightly less miserable than having a waterlogged ass. I needed twice as much paper to dry myself off as I would have used to wipe.
For a while I hung an old microfiber towel next to the toilet and used that, but "oh, that's just my butt-towel…" is an interesting conversation to have. So I cut up some old shirts. They go into a bucket after use and I wash them regularly. The cloth is what makes it work.
I can only imagine what it would be like to have a blowdryer down there.
A funny related article: Odor-eliminating pants are hot seller in Japan; Undergarments disguise smell of flatulence, body odor: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/odor-eliminatin...
After being in multiple countries, I can safely conclude that if you think the daily 'paper' routine can clean it properly, it can't. If you think only a water jet can clean it properly, it can't. You have to use both. My schedule is something like : Paper->Water jet->Paper and I feel perfect after this! :)
I have a TOTO (cambridge ma), but it has none of the fancy features. It did come with a sticker on the seat for
www.cleanishappy.com/ which sells the super toilet seat ad ons.
The toliet works well and uses very little water. It doesn't spin flush but instead uses a wave of water when flushing.
It sounds like way too hi-tech. I guess people around the world are pretty much happy to get the job done one way or another. I know that there are people who wipe and people who wash. Then some others who do things I probably don't know how to imagine.
If you're not keen on using a piece of paper to smudge your shit into your anus more permanently than necessary, then there are always bidet showers (without the bidet sink, it's just an extra shower with a smaller outlet). Wikipedia says "Its [bidet shower] use is very common in Finland, romance speaking countries, arab countries and other countries of muslim background."
So, the dry and wet options are already covered to most countries' likings and the spraying toilet seat doesn't effectively offer any groundbreaking improvements in the appropriate department.
If you're not keen on using a piece of paper to smudge your shit into your anus more permanently than necessary, then there are always bidet showers (without the bidet sink, it's just an extra shower with a smaller outlet). Wikipedia says "Its [bidet shower] use is very common in Finland, romance speaking countries, arab countries and other countries of muslim background."
So, the dry and wet options are already covered to most countries' likings and the spraying toilet seat doesn't effectively offer any groundbreaking improvements in the appropriate department.
Toto does not have that relationship with the person responsible for picking your toilet.
Why does Toto have that relationship with the guy who picked my toilet? They've got a sales rep in Ogaki. His most important job is making sure they know of every business start for a construction company and that every time it happens the company gets a wreath (that's considered auspicious and is socially mandatory to buy when someone close to you starts a shop) and the principals get invited out drinking. Toto is, naturally, buying. The sales guy will not be so gauche as to mention "Say, apropos of nothing, do you do cost-plus projects? We have a proposition for you which will put $100 extra in your pocket for every bathroom you build."