Ask HN: How was your experience moving from fulltime job to being self employed
4 comments
Reframe a bit. Self employment describes running a business that employs you. It’s does not describe an identity, something you can “be.” I know that seems pedantic but experience tells me that language matters. Think in terms of what you do rather than what you are to keep it actionable.
I got laid off (company went bust) back in 2009 and started freelancing. I got some referrals from friends and just kept going. I found plenty of work, mostly word of mouth and with long-term relationships with customers.
I never had much trouble finding customers. I focus on solving business problems. I prefer working on legacy code (which more often means “abandoned” rather than “old”). I don’t specialize in any particular stack or technology, I figure out how to fix things.
I used to get quite a bit of overflow work from software dev shops and design/marketing agencies. They either need work or they have done the prospecting and give an intro. If I had to start over that’s where I would start.
In 2014 I signed up with an agency to represent me. They do marketing, legal, customer service, invoicing, payment. I have found that worth their percentage because they built a premium brand that benefits me.
I have some articles about freelancing on my web site, link in profile.
I got laid off (company went bust) back in 2009 and started freelancing. I got some referrals from friends and just kept going. I found plenty of work, mostly word of mouth and with long-term relationships with customers.
I never had much trouble finding customers. I focus on solving business problems. I prefer working on legacy code (which more often means “abandoned” rather than “old”). I don’t specialize in any particular stack or technology, I figure out how to fix things.
I used to get quite a bit of overflow work from software dev shops and design/marketing agencies. They either need work or they have done the prospecting and give an intro. If I had to start over that’s where I would start.
In 2014 I signed up with an agency to represent me. They do marketing, legal, customer service, invoicing, payment. I have found that worth their percentage because they built a premium brand that benefits me.
I have some articles about freelancing on my web site, link in profile.
How do you find dev agencies,
my biggest hurdle has been finding the clients
I used Google: marketing CITY, web design CITY, custom software CITY, computer support CITY. Substitute your own city. Then I found names of the principals on their web sites and called and emailed offering my services. Got multiple leads the first day and some work within a week. I had some business cards printed to hand out to people I met with, so they could refer me.
I had experience working with small law firms, also easy to find online. Law offices always have computers and computer problems so I started calling, told receptionist I was with Dell support and needed to speak with their IT manager about an upgrade. Very often they outsource that so I’d get the name of their support firm and then call offering to take on overflow. Got some good leads that way.
I also talked to everyone I knew and had previously worked with to let them know I was looking for freelance work.
You have to do some work drumming up business. I had worked in sales support earlier in my career so I knew something about how sales people find prospects and cold call.
I didn’t focus on any specific language or “stack,” only on finding business problems I could solve.
My best advice: don’t think of your skills in terms of technology, focus on solving business problems and your marketable skills. Listen to your customers and their needs instead of limiting yourself because of what you want to do. Communicate with your customers and think about establishing long-term relationships and referrals. Many freelancers drop the ball right off by not listening, not serving their customers, and putting their preferences first. Just read the posts here from people looking for jobs and you see examples of that mentality — I want to work on… I want to use… I only do this…
I had experience working with small law firms, also easy to find online. Law offices always have computers and computer problems so I started calling, told receptionist I was with Dell support and needed to speak with their IT manager about an upgrade. Very often they outsource that so I’d get the name of their support firm and then call offering to take on overflow. Got some good leads that way.
I also talked to everyone I knew and had previously worked with to let them know I was looking for freelance work.
You have to do some work drumming up business. I had worked in sales support earlier in my career so I knew something about how sales people find prospects and cold call.
I didn’t focus on any specific language or “stack,” only on finding business problems I could solve.
My best advice: don’t think of your skills in terms of technology, focus on solving business problems and your marketable skills. Listen to your customers and their needs instead of limiting yourself because of what you want to do. Communicate with your customers and think about establishing long-term relationships and referrals. Many freelancers drop the ball right off by not listening, not serving their customers, and putting their preferences first. Just read the posts here from people looking for jobs and you see examples of that mentality — I want to work on… I want to use… I only do this…
That is awesome thanks for this. I’ve been dabbling in freelance for the past year, but have yet to leap from my regular job. I need to get more comfortable with proactive outreach. I have enjoyed it so far, I just need to build up more clients and increase rates.
Possibly useful. Free, no ads, pop-ups, affiliate links.
https://typicalprogrammer.com/how-to-start-freelancing-and-g...
Something to keep in mind: When I talk to potential customers the one thing I hear over and over, from almost every one of them: The last person/company who did programming/IT work ignored their emails and phone calls. Don't do that. Commit to acknowledging emails and taking phone calls. I tell my customers to email unless they have a dire emergency and always reply right away.
Another thing I heard a lot -- probably because I focused on taking over legacy/abandoned code: The previous developers didn't listen to our needs, gave us something that almost works, then demanded more money so we ended the relationship. Lesson: Propose and estimate small tasks that you can define and describe in terms of deliverables, so the customer sees progress all the time and you aren't haggling over how many hours you spent.
https://typicalprogrammer.com/how-to-start-freelancing-and-g...
Something to keep in mind: When I talk to potential customers the one thing I hear over and over, from almost every one of them: The last person/company who did programming/IT work ignored their emails and phone calls. Don't do that. Commit to acknowledging emails and taking phone calls. I tell my customers to email unless they have a dire emergency and always reply right away.
Another thing I heard a lot -- probably because I focused on taking over legacy/abandoned code: The previous developers didn't listen to our needs, gave us something that almost works, then demanded more money so we ended the relationship. Lesson: Propose and estimate small tasks that you can define and describe in terms of deliverables, so the customer sees progress all the time and you aren't haggling over how many hours you spent.
When you're an employee the work comes to you. Your job is to execute the work. You get paid.
When you are self-employed you have to go find the work. Your short, and long, term success will be 100% based on your ability to do this task. Fail here and you fail. Period.
Now you get to execute the work. The specification will be light on detail. It's likely underfunded. Your customer will keep moving the goalposts and will resist funding changes to match. Your short, and long, term success will be 100% based on your ability to do this task. Fail here and you fail. Period.
Once the work is complete you will then spend significant time and effort getting paid. Some customers won't pay. Your short, and long, term success will be 100% based on your ability to do this task. Fail here and you fail. Period.
You also get to do all those tasks you considered beneath you as an engineer. Like Support, Documentation, Accounts. Taxes. Making coffee. Answering the phone. Cleaning up. All of which are basically unpaid.
On the upside this process will teach you about business. Marketing. Invoicing. Quoting. Payment schedules. Support. Documentation. And, yes, accounting. You'll discover that only a fraction of your time is "working" (aka coding).
If nothing else, if you fail, it'll make you a much better employee, better able to understand what everyone (non coders) do, and why they matter. Your appreciation of marketing and sales folk will soar. You'll see the receptionist, cleaner, coffee maker with a new set of eyes.
Being self-employed is rewarding. But it isn't about coding - it's about everything else.
When you are self-employed you have to go find the work. Your short, and long, term success will be 100% based on your ability to do this task. Fail here and you fail. Period.
Now you get to execute the work. The specification will be light on detail. It's likely underfunded. Your customer will keep moving the goalposts and will resist funding changes to match. Your short, and long, term success will be 100% based on your ability to do this task. Fail here and you fail. Period.
Once the work is complete you will then spend significant time and effort getting paid. Some customers won't pay. Your short, and long, term success will be 100% based on your ability to do this task. Fail here and you fail. Period.
You also get to do all those tasks you considered beneath you as an engineer. Like Support, Documentation, Accounts. Taxes. Making coffee. Answering the phone. Cleaning up. All of which are basically unpaid.
On the upside this process will teach you about business. Marketing. Invoicing. Quoting. Payment schedules. Support. Documentation. And, yes, accounting. You'll discover that only a fraction of your time is "working" (aka coding).
If nothing else, if you fail, it'll make you a much better employee, better able to understand what everyone (non coders) do, and why they matter. Your appreciation of marketing and sales folk will soar. You'll see the receptionist, cleaner, coffee maker with a new set of eyes.
Being self-employed is rewarding. But it isn't about coding - it's about everything else.
Much like running a software business: you think you're signing up to get "paid to code", when in reality that's only 10% (if that) of the work to do.
I would agree to this,
As someone who recently became self employed and handling my own clients, It can get stressful but its rewarding at the end of the day where you get to pick your schedule but you still have to deliver the work
Plus you learn so much more where as in employment you are hired for specific job
Plus you learn so much more where as in employment you are hired for specific job
Its amazing so far! I'm unemployable, I don't like commiting to a company, working in the same project for longer than 6 months, maximum is like 12 months if its a good one. I like working and collaborating with people but I hate all the corporate BS, team buildings, scrum meetings, meetings to set other meetings. And I hate working for 40 hours.
I started my career as a freelancer, then had to take a fulltime job to move countries and get permanent residency, switched back to freelancing 2 years ago. Now I'm working around 20-30 hours per week and make 2x than my first full-time job.
My fulltime jobs were "very flexible" and fully remote after the covid but I always had to be online at specific times or had to pretend that I'm online. Now I'm super flexible, I can work 4 hours in the morning and enjoy rest of the day off, or work 3 days and take rest of the days off and I don't have to report to anyone about these.
I'm fine even if I don't have a job for 6 months or so, I travel a lot with a campervan. I don't have any debt or kids. I've been always lucky with getting clients somehow. So I guess thats a luxury.
TLDR; I love it but finding a stable stream of clients might be stressful.
I started my career as a freelancer, then had to take a fulltime job to move countries and get permanent residency, switched back to freelancing 2 years ago. Now I'm working around 20-30 hours per week and make 2x than my first full-time job.
My fulltime jobs were "very flexible" and fully remote after the covid but I always had to be online at specific times or had to pretend that I'm online. Now I'm super flexible, I can work 4 hours in the morning and enjoy rest of the day off, or work 3 days and take rest of the days off and I don't have to report to anyone about these.
I'm fine even if I don't have a job for 6 months or so, I travel a lot with a campervan. I don't have any debt or kids. I've been always lucky with getting clients somehow. So I guess thats a luxury.
TLDR; I love it but finding a stable stream of clients might be stressful.
Agreeed especially on the last point you mentioned finding clients
Rough.
I would love to hear your experiences of being self employed or moving from a full time role to being self employed