Ask HN: Has your handwriting suffered from years on the keyboard?
82 comments
My handwriting was always pretty bad and erratic; no doubt because I spent most of my time at a keyboard. But a couple years ago I decided to basically engineer myself a style of handwriting, first designing an alphabet, then training myself to use it (and only it). That project has grown to something of a full-fledged writing system. I would recommend to any geeks that they take a couple weeks to work out something for themselves and then try to learn it. It's been quite satisfying.
Did you found any place where they have nice models of letters to get some inspiration and pick the ones I like? I just did a quick search but did not found any satisfying results yet.
I did; I drew inspiration from a very wide variety of historical scripts. I am actually documenting the whole thing, but it grows too fast for me to get it all into the computer. Some day I'll publish it, though.
I recommend you should check out http://medievalwriting.50megs.com as a good first step for inspiration.
I recommend you should check out http://medievalwriting.50megs.com as a good first step for inspiration.
Back in high school tried doing this by printing out the alphabet with a font I liked, and could be written without too much hassle. Then I tried to imitate this, with success for a few month but it didn't last as my style changed.
[deleted]
Incidentally I did something like this back in school to improve my handwriting. At first I stopped connecting letters, but reintroduced some connections later.
I think more than a few of us start typing so early that it's hard to separate the two.
OTOH, I find that the kinds of pen & paper I use have a significant effect on the quality of my handwriting.
OTOH, I find that the kinds of pen & paper I use have a significant effect on the quality of my handwriting.
Gotta love that Pilot G2
Gotta love those pencils and their undo support :)
I don't know of pencils with undo, but here's one with "replay." (If you point at [X] in your notes, it will play back the recording of the lecture at the point you wrote [X].)
http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/30/livescribe-shows-off-leap...
The Apple Newton had two levels of Undo (with redo disabled, otherwise just one).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKHelCE9QAg
http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/30/livescribe-shows-off-leap...
The Apple Newton had two levels of Undo (with redo disabled, otherwise just one).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKHelCE9QAg
The Sharpie Pen (which has the feel of their marker, but an extremely fine point) is the best writing implement that I have ever used.
Along those lines these ones are pretty wonderful and they write permanently on absolutely anything.
http://www.amazon.com/Sarstedt-Permanent-Plastic-Glass-Tubes...
http://www.amazon.com/Sarstedt-Permanent-Plastic-Glass-Tubes...
I got a Fisher Space Pen (http://www.spacepen.ca/) for Christmas last year. I use it every day and it's still going strong.
That was my favorite pen until I tried the Pentel EnerGel. It has gel ink, like the G2, but the barrel is slightly fatter (thus easier for me to grip). The "killer feature" of that pen though is the pocket clip automatically retracts the point inside the pen. I've had a few shirts ruined by forgetting to retract the point before clipping it to my shirt, and this pen does that automatically. When you push the "clicker" on the end to extend the point, a little plastic tab gets pushed down and wedges under the end of the pocket clip. As soon as the clip is slightly lifted (or a piece of fabric gets shoved under it), the tab is released and the spring pulls the point back inside.
A few months ago I splurged on a fountain pen that met all my needs (the sleek black lamy studio), and I've never looked back since.
What type of pen did you get? I've been writing with the G2s for a long time now, but a fountain pen has been very tempting...
like I said, the lamy studio ;) see http://www.lamyusa.com/stpaficosoco.html
I got it mainly because of the looks (most fountain pens tend to lean towards the ornate, if you get what I mean, while this one was exactly the kind of design I loved in matte black, exactly the color I wanted), the weight (since I have tremors, heavier pens help with writing) and the price (less than $100).
Since what everyone will be looking for in a pen will be different, maybe you could look online...but if there's a store near you that sells lots of different types of fountain pens, I really suggest going in person to try out a few, and to talk about what kind of pen you had in mind.
When I went to Flax (a local store in los angeles) I went there with a couple different pens I saw online in mind, but trying them out in person, I wasn't satisfied. I spent a while talking to the guy helping me, really stressing the weight and price point as being my main criteria for selecting one, and he pointed out this little beauty I didn't even know existed.
I like the G2s, I even still have one around for when the fountain pen would be inappropriate to pull out (one being my favorite color was green, so I got a dark green ink for it that I usually use over black), but this makes writing fun again :)
I got it mainly because of the looks (most fountain pens tend to lean towards the ornate, if you get what I mean, while this one was exactly the kind of design I loved in matte black, exactly the color I wanted), the weight (since I have tremors, heavier pens help with writing) and the price (less than $100).
Since what everyone will be looking for in a pen will be different, maybe you could look online...but if there's a store near you that sells lots of different types of fountain pens, I really suggest going in person to try out a few, and to talk about what kind of pen you had in mind.
When I went to Flax (a local store in los angeles) I went there with a couple different pens I saw online in mind, but trying them out in person, I wasn't satisfied. I spent a while talking to the guy helping me, really stressing the weight and price point as being my main criteria for selecting one, and he pointed out this little beauty I didn't even know existed.
I like the G2s, I even still have one around for when the fountain pen would be inappropriate to pull out (one being my favorite color was green, so I got a dark green ink for it that I usually use over black), but this makes writing fun again :)
I have tried many a fancy pen and always come back to the sweet dime-a-million Bic Roundstic.
Taking higher level math classes is a good way to force yourself to maintain good handwriting. You quickly learn that if you want to have any chance of finishing a question, your going to have to write your solution neatly and in easily readable steps.
In high school, I was doing poorly in my freshman math classes partly because I had terrible handwriting and my '6' looked like a 'b'. Try keeping track of your work when you're using the quadratic formula :P
A friendly biology teacher recognized my plight and helped me retrain my handwriting into something legible. It still isn't great, but at least I don't make that mistake anymore.
A friendly biology teacher recognized my plight and helped me retrain my handwriting into something legible. It still isn't great, but at least I don't make that mistake anymore.
I had to do the same thing in college with t's and +'s, I resisted curling my t's in physics and math class for a while until it was explained to me that everyone did it.
Yeah I started crossing my z's in Calc II because I was getting them mixed up with my 2's.
I found math classes particularly good for developing my Greek handwriting. (I'm not making this up.)
If you want to do something about the problem I highly recommend:
"Write Now" by Barbara Getty and Inga Dubay [1]
It is a workbook-style introduction to "italic" handwriting. I worked through it a few years ago and to this day my handwriting is still legible. (It was not prior; the learning process was triggered by the realization that consistently I could not read my own handwriting.)
[1] http://www.amazon.com/Write-Now-Complete-Program-Handwriting...
"Write Now" by Barbara Getty and Inga Dubay [1]
It is a workbook-style introduction to "italic" handwriting. I worked through it a few years ago and to this day my handwriting is still legible. (It was not prior; the learning process was triggered by the realization that consistently I could not read my own handwriting.)
[1] http://www.amazon.com/Write-Now-Complete-Program-Handwriting...
My handwriting was always bad, and deserved to suffer. :P
Yes, definitely. I find that using a fountain pen improves my handwriting, as well as being more pleasurable than using a biro.
Yep. It's nuts. The only thing I write by hand is to-dos into my small notebook. And it really sucks when I can't figure out what I have to do because I can't read what I wrote.
Of course it has. Especially since in the last 3 years, I haven't written one sentence on a piece of paper(I don't count filling out checks, signing credit card slips, or writing a shopping list).
In fact my writing is so bad, I find it easier to type out a shopping list in notepad and print it out, than write it on a piece of paper. Why? Because if I write it on a piece of paper, I most likely won't be able to read all of it, when I actually get to the store.
In fact my writing is so bad, I find it easier to type out a shopping list in notepad and print it out, than write it on a piece of paper. Why? Because if I write it on a piece of paper, I most likely won't be able to read all of it, when I actually get to the store.
I was home-schooled my entire life. I wrote everything on the computer; notes, todo's, letters, essays, everything. My dad is a writer and he would give me essays and books to grammar-check for him when I was young, so my English grammar is pretty good. My handwriting, however, is so embarrassing. I write in all capital letters and it looks like chicken-scratch. Hell, I can't honestly say I even know how to write all the cursive letters!
I'm 26 and I know my writing isn't going to magically get any better with time. I've been looking for good material to help teach myself how to handwrite, but I haven't found much. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place (or not hard enough).
If anyone has any suggestions for improving my handwriting, I would love to hear them. (I saw the post about the "Write Now" book, and I'm definitely going to pick that up.)
I'm 26 and I know my writing isn't going to magically get any better with time. I've been looking for good material to help teach myself how to handwrite, but I haven't found much. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place (or not hard enough).
If anyone has any suggestions for improving my handwriting, I would love to hear them. (I saw the post about the "Write Now" book, and I'm definitely going to pick that up.)
http://www.paperpenalia.com/handwriting.html
The main point:
>People for whom writing comes more easily may rest their hands fairly heavily on the paper, but their forearms and shoulders move as they write. Their writing has a cadence that shows they’re using at least some of the right muscle groups. They don’t draw the letters with their fingers; the fingers serve more as guides.
The main point:
>People for whom writing comes more easily may rest their hands fairly heavily on the paper, but their forearms and shoulders move as they write. Their writing has a cadence that shows they’re using at least some of the right muscle groups. They don’t draw the letters with their fingers; the fingers serve more as guides.
That's awesome! Thanks! I've got to find more articles like that one.
yes - a lot.
Partly from lack of practice but also from RSI which gives me cramps :(
EDIT: I'm in my twenties too
Partly from lack of practice but also from RSI which gives me cramps :(
EDIT: I'm in my twenties too
I was in that same position about a year ago. On a whim, I decided I'd try one of those split keyboards and it helped enormously. I hated it for about a week (typos), but then I adjusted and the pain is gone.
Interesting. I might look into that thx.
Although the major sourceo f my problem comes from using a laptop on my knees.. so :(
Although the major sourceo f my problem comes from using a laptop on my knees.. so :(
Don't take RSI lightly. If it hurts when you do that, don't do that. RSI is not protected by ADA, and it can take years to recover from.
ADA? I know it's a problem.. and I do have to get it fixed. But it's all a bad habit thing. and I am weak like that.
It is getting to the point I have to do something though.
It is getting to the point I have to do something though.
the disabilities act (the law that governs things like what should happen if you are unable to work, what kind of accomodations your employer must make if you should become disabled, et cetera._
i feel you on the bad habit thing, 20 days is all it takes to have a new habit, though.
i feel you on the bad habit thing, 20 days is all it takes to have a new habit, though.
Not really, I've always had terrible handwriting. Never had the patience to do all the silly writing exercises back in grade 1 :p
On the other hand, I do all my brainstorming and to-do lists on paper (and occasionally whiteboard), so I don't think I'll ever be completely out of practice.
On the other hand, I do all my brainstorming and to-do lists on paper (and occasionally whiteboard), so I don't think I'll ever be completely out of practice.
I'm in the same boat. I remember doing handwriting practice in grade 2 or 3, writing the alphabet out in books. Each letter had to be done 6 times and they all had to look the same. I never bothered with it. I can read handwriting fairly well, but I just can't write. I can force myself to, but it's just an unreadable mess.
My signature is even pretty bad. My name is quite long so I tend to just initial everything - otherwise I feel like a dbag standing there trying to sign something for like 20 seconds.
And in school, all my in-class essays/assignments were printed, any other homework I would just type up.
My signature is even pretty bad. My name is quite long so I tend to just initial everything - otherwise I feel like a dbag standing there trying to sign something for like 20 seconds.
And in school, all my in-class essays/assignments were printed, any other homework I would just type up.
My handwriting was never good, but thirty years of all-day use of a keyboard, it has definitely suffered. I find that I frequently misspell words (even my name), not because I don't know how to spell, but because my motor skills have atrophied enough that I get odd twitches when writing. My block printing is legible however, perhaps in part because of the mechanical drawing course that I took in college when I was an engineering major. The instructor was anal about the formation of letters and numbers. Other than shopping lists (even those are often typed and printed), I rarely write anything any more. When I sent out Christmas cards, I practiced writing before committing pen to card.
I can'r really comment on the quality of my own handwriting (nerve damage in my right arm from motorcycle accident years ago means limited dexterity in that hand) but observing others, like my daughter, her friends, etc. handwriting - yes, handwriting quality seems to be suffering. As is grammer, sentence structure, and punctuation. ;^)
I fear that like many of the skills we as people used on a daily basis, computers, automation and our 'convenience oriented' lifestyles are causing us to lose those skills like handwriting.
I fear that like many of the skills we as people used on a daily basis, computers, automation and our 'convenience oriented' lifestyles are causing us to lose those skills like handwriting.
My handwriting is nearly illegible, even to me. I think the main problem is that I try to make writing as efficient and fast as typing which results in blobs that don't necessarily look like words. I still prototype stuff on paper, but if I haven't looked at a diagram in a while I sometimes have to guess as to what I wrote.
That being said, I have the ability to provide very nice handwriting, but it requires an obscene amount of time and it hurts my hand after a while.
That being said, I have the ability to provide very nice handwriting, but it requires an obscene amount of time and it hurts my hand after a while.
I found that the thing that affected my handwriting the worst was when I was studying Japanese. Now my handwriting is close to illegible in both Roman and Japanese scripts.
Writing with a ballpoint, my handwriting gets worse. I've found that I need to use a fountain pen to keep it legible (as long as it stays dry) because those pens require more attention to angle/pressure/etc in order to write. The pen I use is a Namiki retractible, which entertains some folks.
Writing with a ballpoint, my handwriting gets worse. I've found that I need to use a fountain pen to keep it legible (as long as it stays dry) because those pens require more attention to angle/pressure/etc in order to write. The pen I use is a Namiki retractible, which entertains some folks.
My handwriting has always looked like a spider fell in an inkwell and the ran across a page. After 10 years using a keyboard, all I can say is that my hand writing has gotten even worse. I do find that if I use a really good pen, it doesn't have to be expensive, that I can write reasonably well, bit it's still crap ... :)
You'll never know if it's better or worse than it would have been without a computer. It might be worse, but it might also be better. Some professions who write a lot are notorious for their bad handwriting, e.g. doctors. And I dare you to read anything my grandfather has written, and he writes most everything by hand!
Most definitely, both in quality and speed. It shouldn't come as a surprise though, if you don't use it you lose it.
Use it or lose it. It's like asking if your weight has suffered from years of sitting on a couch eating pizza every night.
If you type a lot but you also continue to write a lot, your handwriting will be a lot better than if you write a lot less due to keyboard use.
If you type a lot but you also continue to write a lot, your handwriting will be a lot better than if you write a lot less due to keyboard use.
I personally think my handwriting sucks. But lots of other people tell me that it's actually pretty good. I think thats just because I tend to write big whenever possible - it's impossible to read my handwriting when i write small.
Same with me. One line of mine would take up space in which others would write 2 lines. I even have a lecturer who identifies me by my big letters.
When I write patiently and big, it looks neat. And when I write small, it looks Times New Roman font gone wrong. :D
Once when delivering a letter to a person, I handed it over to his assistant and he said "you've got really good letters". And everytime I want to write neatly I think of that incident. Coz he's the only in my entire life who said my handwriting is good. :)
When I write patiently and big, it looks neat. And when I write small, it looks Times New Roman font gone wrong. :D
Once when delivering a letter to a person, I handed it over to his assistant and he said "you've got really good letters". And everytime I want to write neatly I think of that incident. Coz he's the only in my entire life who said my handwriting is good. :)
Yes it has, very much so! It's funny that you say this because all people I've been telling about it have been shaking their heads in disbelief. I was starting to think I'm insane or something.
I grew up using a computer. My penmanship lessons in school were botched. I started typing all my homework from fourth grade onwards. My handwriting, to this day, is only borderline legible.
Also, I appreciate the gesture, but I hate getting paper mail. I check my mail every few months. When friends send me holiday cards, I often don't notice them till the holidays are over.
My handwriting has been very neat and tight. I write in cursive and in pencil, since being left-handed is horrible with pens, but people complain about it being too small and too light.
Woe is me? :P
Woe is me? :P
FM Alexander argued that the process of learning handwriting was detrimental to the functioning of the human organism. The sooner computer abolish the activity, the better.
My handwriting quality has actually improved, but I've been using a computer since I was about 4 so I guess the only thing that could happen was improvement!
Writing on paper is like solving long division on paper--good to know, but not very useful in day to day life. I have no plans to preserve my handwriting.
My handwriting: lower case - bad and getting worse; upper case - rock steady. Thankfully most written applications ask for upper case anyhow.
No it hasn't. I have been printing since grade school because my handwriting sucked to begin with. I have been typing since then also.
It always sucked.
I've been reading off a computer screen since I was 5. I'm so used to type, I can barely read cursive.
My handwriting grew a lot worse when I shifted from a written diary to a typed blog...
I block-print in small caps. It looks decent but takes a long time to grind out.
My handwriting basically looks like a five-year-old's.
Doesn't help that I'm left-handed either.
Doesn't help that I'm left-handed either.
No, but that's because I started using a tablet for day to day computing.
No, because I usually plan things out on paper.
People still write things by hand?
No, it was always terrible.
no. my handwriting has always sucked.
Oh, yeah.
Yup.
tremendously
I actually have pretty good handwriting, so no. My handwriting has perhaps only improved from years on the keyboard. Coding and related pursuits are, for me, creative activities; my handwriting, I feel, is a manifestation of this temperament.
Just as the quality of the language determines that of your code, the quality of your pen determines that of your handwriting. When I use a nice pen, my handwriting's pretty good. When I use a cheap pen, it looks like that of a six-year-old.
It being the holiday season, I felt compelled to write some thank you cards. I was shocked to see how terrible my handwriting has become, both script and print. I'm a techie in my late twenties and wanted to see if I am the only one who's handwriting quality has been impacted.