Apple reportedly faces €500M fine from EU(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
Apple reportedly faces €500M fine from EU
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/19/apple-faces-possible-500m-fine-from-eu-over-music-streaming-access
7 comments
I wonder how this kind of amount is decided, a percentage of the profit they have earn from the decision perhaps ? what is the metrics ? It seems enormous but it's kind of fair when you profit from a monopoly position in an economical infrastructure.
I have no idea how this legal stuff work but it sure does seem fascinating.
I have no idea how this legal stuff work but it sure does seem fascinating.
They still have to pay the 13 billion one...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple's_EU_tax_dispute
So not sure what the point is :)
So not sure what the point is :)
According to that article, they've put the money in escrow and won the first appeal seemingly. This shit can take time.
does this mean I'll be able to create my own App Store app as I like it or there will be 5000 pages
agreement how to do this "properly" and such apps simply will not be allowed on Apple store for "not compliance" or it'll be "open season" for all now?
Knowing Apple there might be former, not the latter... until 3 years later there will be another verdict.. :D
Knowing Apple there might be former, not the latter... until 3 years later there will be another verdict.. :D
I don't like Apple for a lot of reasons but this is just petty, arbitrary stealing from a successful company.
I knew it! This is what they were after from the start. Milk a US company for that fine cash! And make it look like they were looking out for consumers who have no shortage of options in any product vertical apple operates in.
If there weren't much more important global issues happening, why this isn't resulting in a tradewar with EU should be a news headline.
I hope Apple realizes that they need to curate inferior products for EU users so they can keep the market. But I gotta say, apple is bending backwards, even getting rid of the objectively superior lightning for USB-C (consumers get inferior features) and they still managed to fine them.
The spotify is superior and more popular than apple music, so apple is already losing. If you look hard enough and long enough at someone's activity you will find a reason to fine them. Equal before the law means equal scrutiny as well.
If there weren't much more important global issues happening, why this isn't resulting in a tradewar with EU should be a news headline.
I hope Apple realizes that they need to curate inferior products for EU users so they can keep the market. But I gotta say, apple is bending backwards, even getting rid of the objectively superior lightning for USB-C (consumers get inferior features) and they still managed to fine them.
The spotify is superior and more popular than apple music, so apple is already losing. If you look hard enough and long enough at someone's activity you will find a reason to fine them. Equal before the law means equal scrutiny as well.
Ah yes, because X is a problem you dont have to do anything about Y.
And if i follow law Y, clearly i dont have to be fined for not following law Z. This too makes complete sense of course.
And if i follow law Y, clearly i dont have to be fined for not following law Z. This too makes complete sense of course.
X and Y are closely related
> even getting rid of the objectively superior lightning for USB-C (consumers get inferior features) and they still managed to fine them.
If it was objectively superior then Apple should have standardized it with USB-IF. They didn't, and rightfully every single OEM (and some world governments) told them to pound sand. Lighting was inferior to USB on-paper, you don't even need to compare the connectors to understand why Lightning was literally outlawed some places.
It is a shame that Apple behaved that way, but they chose to make Lightning a proprietary serial connector. You seem very desperate to blame Europe but methinks you're frustrated for the wrong reasons.
If it was objectively superior then Apple should have standardized it with USB-IF. They didn't, and rightfully every single OEM (and some world governments) told them to pound sand. Lighting was inferior to USB on-paper, you don't even need to compare the connectors to understand why Lightning was literally outlawed some places.
It is a shame that Apple behaved that way, but they chose to make Lightning a proprietary serial connector. You seem very desperate to blame Europe but methinks you're frustrated for the wrong reasons.
Apple doesn't have to standardize anything, that limits them because future optimizations and changes would break the standard. It takes several years for usb standards to be ratified. If apple finds a way to charge phones 2x faster but usb-c standard would be violated what should they do? How does that benefit consumers?
Lightning is objectively better. The wear and tear factor is for the cable side to be damaged but with usb-c the cable side connector is hard to damage but on the device end, the connector part that goes into the cable side female connector wears and tears. If it gets damaged you need a new device, if lightning gets damaged you need a new cable. This is one reason apple devices lasted longer than android.
Because of europe's decisions features I like are being taken away and europe can use android or subsidize the european nokia. People across an ocean with plenty of choices took away my choice so they can give the middle finger to the big bad american company.
Lightning is objectively better. The wear and tear factor is for the cable side to be damaged but with usb-c the cable side connector is hard to damage but on the device end, the connector part that goes into the cable side female connector wears and tears. If it gets damaged you need a new device, if lightning gets damaged you need a new cable. This is one reason apple devices lasted longer than android.
Because of europe's decisions features I like are being taken away and europe can use android or subsidize the european nokia. People across an ocean with plenty of choices took away my choice so they can give the middle finger to the big bad american company.
> Apple doesn't have to standardize anything
Wow that's cool, they also don't have to sell iPhones in certain European jurisdictions: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/05/04/eu-warns-apple-about-li...
> If apple finds a way to charge phones 2x faster but usb-c standard would be violated what should they do?
Make it work with USB-C? If your "solution" to fast-charging is "break the fucking charging protocol" then you probably shouldn't be allowed around electronics in the first place. They can charge their Macbooks with USB-C just fine, there's no reason it won't work on iPhones. Trust me. USB-C is rated up to 240w in power delivery, Apple designed half the fucking spec themselves.
> Lightning is objectively better.
You'll have to find a way to be happy being wrong about this one. For one, Lightning has MFi: Made for iPhone is a meaningless standard. Apple has not justified it in any way, and it only exists to charge manufacturers a fee for shipping iPhone-compatible hardware. This alone makes it inferior to USB-C in every way, and was the basis of the EU's objection to the Lightning protocol. It is an illegal anticompetitive standard because of arbitrary software limitations Apple imposes. If you think that's innovation, then I'm glad you're disappointed.
Lightning is a better connector, but it's strictly the worse serial protocol and cable choice. It's more expensive, less capable and ubiquitous, and doesn't diverge from the USB-C spec in any way meaningful enough to be separated. If you're any more familiar with this topic than someone who's just watched the "Apple: Explained" video then this should be glowingly obvious.
> People across an ocean with plenty of choices took away my choice so they can give the middle finger to the big bad american company.
Apple can still sell Lightning iPhones in the United States. As a matter of fact, it was Apple's decision to impliment USB-C on all iPhones going forward. Almost like, it was a smart idea with practically zero downsides or feasible implimentation issues.
Almost as if Apple will fuck over their customers at every corner in the name of profit, unless otherwise directed. Thank God for regulators, if you want to empathize Shkreli and Bankman-Fried then be my guest.
Wow that's cool, they also don't have to sell iPhones in certain European jurisdictions: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/05/04/eu-warns-apple-about-li...
> If apple finds a way to charge phones 2x faster but usb-c standard would be violated what should they do?
Make it work with USB-C? If your "solution" to fast-charging is "break the fucking charging protocol" then you probably shouldn't be allowed around electronics in the first place. They can charge their Macbooks with USB-C just fine, there's no reason it won't work on iPhones. Trust me. USB-C is rated up to 240w in power delivery, Apple designed half the fucking spec themselves.
> Lightning is objectively better.
You'll have to find a way to be happy being wrong about this one. For one, Lightning has MFi: Made for iPhone is a meaningless standard. Apple has not justified it in any way, and it only exists to charge manufacturers a fee for shipping iPhone-compatible hardware. This alone makes it inferior to USB-C in every way, and was the basis of the EU's objection to the Lightning protocol. It is an illegal anticompetitive standard because of arbitrary software limitations Apple imposes. If you think that's innovation, then I'm glad you're disappointed.
Lightning is a better connector, but it's strictly the worse serial protocol and cable choice. It's more expensive, less capable and ubiquitous, and doesn't diverge from the USB-C spec in any way meaningful enough to be separated. If you're any more familiar with this topic than someone who's just watched the "Apple: Explained" video then this should be glowingly obvious.
> People across an ocean with plenty of choices took away my choice so they can give the middle finger to the big bad american company.
Apple can still sell Lightning iPhones in the United States. As a matter of fact, it was Apple's decision to impliment USB-C on all iPhones going forward. Almost like, it was a smart idea with practically zero downsides or feasible implimentation issues.
Almost as if Apple will fuck over their customers at every corner in the name of profit, unless otherwise directed. Thank God for regulators, if you want to empathize Shkreli and Bankman-Fried then be my guest.
What? Do you know how this work? Apple won't pay the full fine (probably 1 to 5%) if they manage to wiggle an apology and permit ALL app editors to put a 'if you pay on our website, without Apple Pay, the cost would be X.YY'.
Spotify is just the company who complained and have enough lawyers to understand anticompetitive law, but any ruling on that will benefit all app editors.
And frankly, most Apple users will keep paying the 30% tax anyway, it's not enough to loose the convenience.
Forbiding truthful, legal speech on your platform is allowed, but not if preventing it is anti-business and anti-competition.
I thought people on a website called _hacker_ news would be supportive of a ruling allowing small app creators alternative payment system?
Spotify is just the company who complained and have enough lawyers to understand anticompetitive law, but any ruling on that will benefit all app editors.
And frankly, most Apple users will keep paying the 30% tax anyway, it's not enough to loose the convenience.
Forbiding truthful, legal speech on your platform is allowed, but not if preventing it is anti-business and anti-competition.
I thought people on a website called _hacker_ news would be supportive of a ruling allowing small app creators alternative payment system?
"I thought people on a website called _hacker_ news would be supportive of a ruling allowing small app creators alternative payment system? "
This is also ycombinator, and thus hacker culture is an means to be exploited by investors who are looking to grow unicorns. Such investors won't tolerate any restrictions on their path to growth as it threatens their entire value proposition.
So, we arrive at the natural conclusion: hackernews is only partially aware of its own narrative dissonance. This is how topics like this one can have hackers rooting for underdogs that will never get a meaningful win out of Apple. While others cheer on Apple and defend its practices as they see themselves temporarily embarrassed founders of the next trillion dollar company and they can't have any roadblocks to that growth.
And then there are some unaffiliated with either hacker or founder culture and their opinions on this topic are naturally as varied as anyone else's.
This is also ycombinator, and thus hacker culture is an means to be exploited by investors who are looking to grow unicorns. Such investors won't tolerate any restrictions on their path to growth as it threatens their entire value proposition.
So, we arrive at the natural conclusion: hackernews is only partially aware of its own narrative dissonance. This is how topics like this one can have hackers rooting for underdogs that will never get a meaningful win out of Apple. While others cheer on Apple and defend its practices as they see themselves temporarily embarrassed founders of the next trillion dollar company and they can't have any roadblocks to that growth.
And then there are some unaffiliated with either hacker or founder culture and their opinions on this topic are naturally as varied as anyone else's.
Very well put.
There used to be a site posted here every so often that would take the best examples of this and the snark was so on-point. I donated to it but think eventually the creator moved on.
Every once in a while an old 4-chan thread will resurface that is another perfect mirror.
I personally almost never used to post as someone would have already said what I'd intended. Now I feel sometimes like the one who flew over the cuckoo's nest.
Am I the old man shouting at clouds, is the site demo skewing further, both? Neither? May as well ask how many licks to the center of a Tootsie Pop.
Edit- comments aren't usually deleted here I wonder if an old-fashioned comment scrape would do, but how to collate and what would even be the separators?
There used to be a site posted here every so often that would take the best examples of this and the snark was so on-point. I donated to it but think eventually the creator moved on.
Every once in a while an old 4-chan thread will resurface that is another perfect mirror.
I personally almost never used to post as someone would have already said what I'd intended. Now I feel sometimes like the one who flew over the cuckoo's nest.
Am I the old man shouting at clouds, is the site demo skewing further, both? Neither? May as well ask how many licks to the center of a Tootsie Pop.
Edit- comments aren't usually deleted here I wonder if an old-fashioned comment scrape would do, but how to collate and what would even be the separators?
> I donated to it but think eventually the creator moved on.
In the spirit of preserving one's sanity, retiring from reading HN is the greatest donation one can ask for. Godspeed, whoever that person is/was.
In the spirit of preserving one's sanity, retiring from reading HN is the greatest donation one can ask for. Godspeed, whoever that person is/was.