Ask HN: Finding a job for the rest of my life
8 comments
The job description you want is basically "tenured professor". Unfortunately, getting there is tough, and requires that you "close" at least one major project (your Ph.D).
I was like this all through school and college. I hated writing. I loved learning. I absorbed all these textbooks, aced the tests, rarely finished a project (or my homework), and hated writing.
But sometime in college, I'd made a commitment to redo the backend of a volunteer website I cared about very much. And I felt like I'd be letting all my friends down if I just gave up on it.
That first completed project was torture. I never wanted to see the code I'd written again, and wanted nothing to do with the website after I'd worked out some of the worst bugs. But the second completed project (a Netbeans plugin for my job) was easier, and third (Write Yourself a Scheme in 48 Hours) was easier still. The 4th got harder again, and I needed help to finish it, but then I did a bunch of other websites that were fairly easy.
The part of the brain that "gets things done" seems to be different from the part that's "smart". (I've heard the former called "executive function", and it often doesn't develop until your 20s.) And it's like a muscle - it gets stronger by exercising it. I've found it also gets tired like a muscle - I usually work in bursts of 1-2 weeks, and then I need a week or two where I have a light workload and am basically just learning new things. But a whole bunch of these cycles, over several years, can add up to a decent number of accomplishments.
The real hump is that first completed project. And I don't really know a way around that other than to keep coming back to it and refuse to give up.
I was like this all through school and college. I hated writing. I loved learning. I absorbed all these textbooks, aced the tests, rarely finished a project (or my homework), and hated writing.
But sometime in college, I'd made a commitment to redo the backend of a volunteer website I cared about very much. And I felt like I'd be letting all my friends down if I just gave up on it.
That first completed project was torture. I never wanted to see the code I'd written again, and wanted nothing to do with the website after I'd worked out some of the worst bugs. But the second completed project (a Netbeans plugin for my job) was easier, and third (Write Yourself a Scheme in 48 Hours) was easier still. The 4th got harder again, and I needed help to finish it, but then I did a bunch of other websites that were fairly easy.
The part of the brain that "gets things done" seems to be different from the part that's "smart". (I've heard the former called "executive function", and it often doesn't develop until your 20s.) And it's like a muscle - it gets stronger by exercising it. I've found it also gets tired like a muscle - I usually work in bursts of 1-2 weeks, and then I need a week or two where I have a light workload and am basically just learning new things. But a whole bunch of these cycles, over several years, can add up to a decent number of accomplishments.
The real hump is that first completed project. And I don't really know a way around that other than to keep coming back to it and refuse to give up.
I have been getting better as I get older. But I also worry about letting people down. In my industry (the legal field) you just can't take a chance you'll let somebody down. I don't want to be that guy. There's too much riding on the work.
So I do the drudge work. I know I can get it done. It some ways it makes me feel better because I don't have to worry about getting over the hump.
One of my options is simply increasing the amount of money I get paid for doing something I know I can do. Then do my own thing on my own time. I call it drudge work, but in reality its something that requires a set of specialized knowledge or special education, but has to to be repeated over and over again (hence the drudge part).
Maybe I need to come up with ideas of thing I can learn that people will pay me very well for because they need to be done over and over again and nobody likes doing them, but are hard enough to require specialized knowledge.
So I do the drudge work. I know I can get it done. It some ways it makes me feel better because I don't have to worry about getting over the hump.
One of my options is simply increasing the amount of money I get paid for doing something I know I can do. Then do my own thing on my own time. I call it drudge work, but in reality its something that requires a set of specialized knowledge or special education, but has to to be repeated over and over again (hence the drudge part).
Maybe I need to come up with ideas of thing I can learn that people will pay me very well for because they need to be done over and over again and nobody likes doing them, but are hard enough to require specialized knowledge.
How about letting people know, honestly, what your strengths and weaknesses are and then letting prospective employers make the choice about whether they want to take the risk of hiring you?
Basically every time I've grown as a person has been because I took the risk of letting people down, and then felt I couldn't let them down and so completed the task. If you never put yourself in that position, how're you going to grow?
You'd be surprised how many people are willing to take that risk, because oftentimes it does pan out, and they get a pretty substantial return on their investment.
Basically every time I've grown as a person has been because I took the risk of letting people down, and then felt I couldn't let them down and so completed the task. If you never put yourself in that position, how're you going to grow?
You'd be surprised how many people are willing to take that risk, because oftentimes it does pan out, and they get a pretty substantial return on their investment.
I would take more chances if I wasn't in the legal field. I did take more chances before. But saying "your app won't be done on schedule" isn't the same as saying "you're going to jail because we didn't file your appeal on time."
An even bigger question is if it worked for you. Goes getting over the hump turn the job into something fulfilling and enjoyable, or does it just make it easier to get over the next hump.
An even bigger question is if it worked for you. Goes getting over the hump turn the job into something fulfilling and enjoyable, or does it just make it easier to get over the next hump.
I don't agree at all - if you hate writing, you would not like being a professor. With papers and grant proposals, professors write more than most jobs.
You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing -- that's what counts. I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
Richard Feynman
--- in my case, it's fish & plant (started an aquarium ~ 3 years ago)
it reinvigorated my interests in chemistry (made my own PMDD fertilizer) ... soon i found myself browing wikipedias for KNO3, pH, nitrification, etc
it's about harmonius ecosystem ... focus on plant -> it improves water quality for fish which in turn feed the plant with waste
simplicity too (i abandon pump+filter+lighting+fert to soil+plant+sun+mulm) ... yes at the end i abandon my chemistry and my knowledge (nature always amazes me ... how little i know)
watching the fish and plant grow is like letting nature writing history for you ... unparallel to any books written by human
so i dunno about u ... maybe pick a hobby (preferrably ones that actionable, no theory -> see Feynman) and if u can make a business / startup out of it, even better
--- in my case, it's fish & plant (started an aquarium ~ 3 years ago)
it reinvigorated my interests in chemistry (made my own PMDD fertilizer) ... soon i found myself browing wikipedias for KNO3, pH, nitrification, etc
it's about harmonius ecosystem ... focus on plant -> it improves water quality for fish which in turn feed the plant with waste
simplicity too (i abandon pump+filter+lighting+fert to soil+plant+sun+mulm) ... yes at the end i abandon my chemistry and my knowledge (nature always amazes me ... how little i know)
watching the fish and plant grow is like letting nature writing history for you ... unparallel to any books written by human
so i dunno about u ... maybe pick a hobby (preferrably ones that actionable, no theory -> see Feynman) and if u can make a business / startup out of it, even better
I would focus on finding a job you can do well for the next three to five years, building on gaius' point that you won't be the same person in 10 years.
I wonder if it's not writing but finishing something and having it judged that's the problem (a roundabout way of saying perfectionism). If it is writing--which I doubt given the fluency of the prose in your question--perhaps you would make a good counselor or coach or salesperson: someone whose job involves listening, influencing, and verbal improvisation.
It could be that you draw your energy from interacting with people (and learning) and you should look for jobs that have a significant component of that.
I think most jobs will reward learning (at least learning that leads to excellence in execution not just an accumulation of facts) so I would focus less on learning as you can normally work that into most jobs you take on.
I wonder if it's not writing but finishing something and having it judged that's the problem (a roundabout way of saying perfectionism). If it is writing--which I doubt given the fluency of the prose in your question--perhaps you would make a good counselor or coach or salesperson: someone whose job involves listening, influencing, and verbal improvisation.
It could be that you draw your energy from interacting with people (and learning) and you should look for jobs that have a significant component of that.
I think most jobs will reward learning (at least learning that leads to excellence in execution not just an accumulation of facts) so I would focus less on learning as you can normally work that into most jobs you take on.
As a developer, I am always learning, but many times I don't care to learn anymore about computers. Those are the times that I look forward to going home, and picking up a book about whatever I'm trying to learn about.
I agree that a lifelong commitment to learning can be a source of ongoing enjoyment. I didn't mean to imply that he should focus all of his learning activities on his job, or job related topics. What I had meant to convey was that learning was normally a component of most jobs. I also agree that taking a break from the computer and work related topics by reading a book is a great way to recharge and learn something new.
Hi skmurphy. I didn't disagree. Just adding my 2 cents to it.
Thanks for the comments guys.
I thought about perfectionism, but I'm very laid back when it comes to my other work. I was fine with my designs when I was a designer, and I was fine with my pottery (I did a lot of that in school). It was what it was. I could make good looking pots, but they were never going to be bought by anyone. They gave me pleasure though.
With writing, its different. Its the only thing I find myself coming up with every excuse not to do it. I do have a problem with execution, I get bored, but writing I despise. When I have bursts of inspiration, its really quite good. Good writing isn't the problem for me, its getting the writing done.
With writing, its different. Its the only thing I find myself coming up with every excuse not to do it. I do have a problem with execution, I get bored, but writing I despise. When I have bursts of inspiration, its really quite good. Good writing isn't the problem for me, its getting the writing done.
How do I find a job I could love for the rest of my life?
You can't. You in 10 years may - probably will - be a different person. You have to make choices now that keep your options open, yet at the same time don't get paralyzed by indecision. Good luck!
You can't. You in 10 years may - probably will - be a different person. You have to make choices now that keep your options open, yet at the same time don't get paralyzed by indecision. Good luck!
"I love thinking through problems."
"I'm definitely a vision guy. I ask way too many questions, but I'm extremely good at throwing away useless information and working out a way to solve something, to get somewhere, to chose a path that will likely work."
From these quotes alone I can see what "career" you are most likely fit for: an entrepreneur.
Think of a problem, think of how you can solve it, think how solving this problem would lead to benefits (profit).
Now, you don't need to dread the word "execution" because I am not going to use it in relation to you. Rather, think back to what you said:
"It requires someone else to put the solution into effect."
Delegate to others for execution. I work with people who are ultimately much more smarter than me, but what separates me from them is that I can bind together the individual outputs of all members of our group into our unified goal.
Learn the art of the persuasion and negotiation (and this can only be learned by taking place in reality, not in your head). This is the most important thing in the beginning - how are you going to get others to follow you into the unknown?
"I'm definitely a vision guy. I ask way too many questions, but I'm extremely good at throwing away useless information and working out a way to solve something, to get somewhere, to chose a path that will likely work."
From these quotes alone I can see what "career" you are most likely fit for: an entrepreneur.
Think of a problem, think of how you can solve it, think how solving this problem would lead to benefits (profit).
Now, you don't need to dread the word "execution" because I am not going to use it in relation to you. Rather, think back to what you said:
"It requires someone else to put the solution into effect."
Delegate to others for execution. I work with people who are ultimately much more smarter than me, but what separates me from them is that I can bind together the individual outputs of all members of our group into our unified goal.
Learn the art of the persuasion and negotiation (and this can only be learned by taking place in reality, not in your head). This is the most important thing in the beginning - how are you going to get others to follow you into the unknown?
And thats exactly what drew me to entrepreneurship in the first place. I love learning about it. I have notebooks full of business plans, product ideas, silly problems I've tried to solve (how to monetize twitter anyone :) T-shirt ideas, marketing plans, brand strategies. Almost all of them unfinished.
I love the idea of putting a vision into action with the help of other people. But I understand I can't skip steps. You don't get to be at the top without showing you can bust your ass as a grunt.
Sometimes I think I should start a company and just hang a sign on the door saying "Problem solver." Then tell people to name a problem and a price they'd pay to have it solved, and I'd call them when I've got it figured out. Seriously, its kind of a dream job.
I love the idea of putting a vision into action with the help of other people. But I understand I can't skip steps. You don't get to be at the top without showing you can bust your ass as a grunt.
Sometimes I think I should start a company and just hang a sign on the door saying "Problem solver." Then tell people to name a problem and a price they'd pay to have it solved, and I'd call them when I've got it figured out. Seriously, its kind of a dream job.
Interesting thing on Google's hiring practices:
"I like to hire people who have two traits. They’re smart, and they get things done."
"Smart people who aren’t closers tend to flail. Small startups get rid of these people fast because they stand out. But sometimes they can find a place to hide in larger organizations where they fester like a cancer."
I freely admit thats me. And that the problem. I don't want to be a cancer. I know I don't execute, and I don't expect to get paid for failing at it. Which is probably why I'm working drudge work. I know I won't let anyone down. It allows me peace of mind with what I do.
"I like to hire people who have two traits. They’re smart, and they get things done."
"Smart people who aren’t closers tend to flail. Small startups get rid of these people fast because they stand out. But sometimes they can find a place to hide in larger organizations where they fester like a cancer."
I freely admit thats me. And that the problem. I don't want to be a cancer. I know I don't execute, and I don't expect to get paid for failing at it. Which is probably why I'm working drudge work. I know I won't let anyone down. It allows me peace of mind with what I do.
By the way, Thanks to all of you for taking the time to read this post and compose your replies.
nice block of text for someone purporting to "hate writing" :D
in any case, i don't think there's a job that distinctively encompasses "learner/problemsolver" sans the execution of the actual fix itself :(
you need to be independently wealthy and be a designer/projectmanager and commission your own ideas into reality to fill the niche role that you've defined
in any case, i don't think there's a job that distinctively encompasses "learner/problemsolver" sans the execution of the actual fix itself :(
you need to be independently wealthy and be a designer/projectmanager and commission your own ideas into reality to fill the niche role that you've defined
I get things done when I'm interested in the answer. But once my interest stops, it grinds to a halt. And I mean grinds. I have so many unfinished things. Screen plays, novels, business plans, blog posts, ideas.
I’ve been slowly on a mission to discover things about myself. Why I don’t like certain things, what things I really love. The only problem is, the result doesn’t provide a clear solution to the problem of what I should try doing with my life.
The things I’ve discovered:
I love learning. It goes beyond mere excitement and borders on a psychological need. Maybe that is the wrong word, it is a need. I could go to school for the rest of my life. I ache to go back to classes, just for the idea that to sit in them would be fun. Even in my college days I hardly skipped class. I didn’t always do the homework, but I went to class anyways. I would read through my textbooks for fun. I go to the library and read books about subjects I don’t really need to know. I read in general, and I love every minute of it. I love exploring new places just to see them and eating new foods just because I wonder what its like to try them.
I would describe myself as a polymath, but that implies a certain amount of acclaimed accomplishment that goes along with the learning. Taking the time to be famous at something has never appealed to me, mostly because that time could be used to learn something new. But one of the best days in my intellectual life was finding the definition of that word, because it meant I was not alone in the world and that other people were like me.
I love thinking through problems. It’s the one thing I’m not humble about, I’m good at it. Thinking excites me, and thinking through things incites me more. I originally wrote “solve problems.” But that isn’t true. I love thinking of the solutions. But once the solution is thought of, I become disinterested. It requires someone else to put the solution into effect. To build the gadget, write-up the paper, complete the process. The problem is solved in my mind, but until someone else does the work it can’t really be said to be truly solved. But the thinking, ah, the thinking. That is truly where my mind can expand, can envision. I’m definitely a vision guy. I ask way too many questions, but I’m extremely good at throwing away useless information and working out a way to solve something, to get somewhere, to chose a path that will likely work.
I hate writing. I hate it with a mix of guilt and resignation. It took me forever to find this out, but again, it was such a relief. Every time I realized I did not like what I was doing, it was this. School was a blast until the night before papers were due. Tests? Sure, love em. Studying, of course! But papers? Writing? That’s where I get bogged down. I finally figured out that it was the ONLY thing I ever procrastinated on. Why? Because deep down I don’t like it. I end up disliking the jobs I have when writing becomes heavily involved. My thoughts have already moved on, they’re going new places and solving new problems. Putting the old thoughts into writing both bores and paralyzes me.
So what should I do with my life? How do I find something that will fulfill me? I’ve thought of academics. Being in a constant learning environment would be fun. I’ve though of those idea companies, where you solve problems, but I admit to a problem with execution. They both want you to solve the problem and execute the solution. I know I’ll hate those parts. So what’s out there for me?
I have found one thing that works, and that’s to take drudgery work. I worked in a factory, and I didn’t mind it. My current occupation is a big step up, I make a ton more money, but it’s the same. You do the same thing over and over for hours. Its enough that I can play close attention to what I need to do, but at the same time a little part of my brain can be thinking through things, solving little problems, or just dreaming up big ideas. It allows me to be me and still make the money I need. By the way, it not that I’m lazy. I’ve worked my share of long hours, both in factories during school and in my current occupation. I don’t mind the long hours as long as I don’t mind the work.
Sorry this is so long. Thank you to everyone who replies.