There's no such thing as a free launch(hackerjobs.co.uk)
hackerjobs.co.uk
There's no such thing as a free launch
http://hackerjobs.co.uk/blog/2012/4/13/there-s-no-such-thing-as-a-free-launch
9 comments
Jon's gonna give you a decent reply but I wanted to quickly point out that a massive factor in the quality of jobs (including salary transparency) is down to our decision to eliminate recruiter postings. Plus the highly targeted 'Hacker News User' market tends to fly way under the radar of companies that are seeking generic, underpaid code monkey positions.
Thanks for the reply, but isn't that the sort of thing that should be clearer on the site?
After going back and reading the big blurb on the homepage, I can see a mention about the recruiters now, but really, who reads big blurbs like that?
I just think yous need to do more to emphasise the quality angle and stand out from the hundreds of sites that just bought a job board WordPress theme.
After going back and reading the big blurb on the homepage, I can see a mention about the recruiters now, but really, who reads big blurbs like that?
I just think yous need to do more to emphasise the quality angle and stand out from the hundreds of sites that just bought a job board WordPress theme.
I think the solutions we have in development will address the issues at hand here and are along the lines of what you suggest, better categorisation of postings essentially. The main thing that's making this a laborious process is trying to get the UX right (the posting process, discoverability for candidates).
The site is largely still in an MVP sort of state and we're trying to start off giving the message of 'being different' by way of our own presence and interactions with people. We release early and often (though it's been a busy couple of weeks since launch so we've not been able to do as much as we'd like) but not all the things on our roadmap are suitable for that. Some things, like this, we see as deserving more time to get right before rolling out.
The site is largely still in an MVP sort of state and we're trying to start off giving the message of 'being different' by way of our own presence and interactions with people. We release early and often (though it's been a busy couple of weeks since launch so we've not been able to do as much as we'd like) but not all the things on our roadmap are suitable for that. Some things, like this, we see as deserving more time to get right before rolling out.
Jon, Steve's co-founder here and the development side of things.
Always interested in hearing any feedback, good or bad, so have at it!
Always interested in hearing any feedback, good or bad, so have at it!
If you're going to be free please have some sort of moderation process. This is not a job: http://hackerjobs.co.uk/jobs/2012/4/11/spamme-tech-co-founde...
Steve Buckley here.
Depends on your perspective really. The company is legit and the ad is for a technical co-founder. If you apply and are successful then you have a job to do.
Depends on your perspective really. The company is legit and the ad is for a technical co-founder. If you apply and are successful then you have a job to do.
I understand what you're saying but it's very easy for your site to become filled with these sort of posts that most people aren't going to care for. There are sites out there for finding a co-founder already, it seems silly to let your site become another one of those sites and dilute the value. For me at least when looking for a job I want something that pays, if a noticeable amount of results on your site are posts saying "we can't pay yet but if we make money we will" then it'll change the audience that care for your site.
If you're set on allowing them at the very least can you provide an option to filter these out? You allow for filtering of all other types so it seems sensible people (like me, or maybe just me...) can get rid of the university student with an idea type postings.
There is no barrier to entry on having an idea, anyone can have an idea, a non-technical co-founder can spend half an hour thinking of a name and pitch and then make a post on your site, that is (to me) not the sort of thing I expect from a job site.
If you're set on allowing them at the very least can you provide an option to filter these out? You allow for filtering of all other types so it seems sensible people (like me, or maybe just me...) can get rid of the university student with an idea type postings.
There is no barrier to entry on having an idea, anyone can have an idea, a non-technical co-founder can spend half an hour thinking of a name and pitch and then make a post on your site, that is (to me) not the sort of thing I expect from a job site.
I understand where you're coming from however this is a brand spanking new resource for job seekers and if we start using the ban hammer a bit too much it will impact our growth and we'll never reach critical mass.
Once we have a healthy flow of traffic we intend to lay down a few ground rules to help increase the overall standard of jobs that appear on the site.
In terms of filtering out those jobs, we're working on that already. We've been waiting for the database to grow as it was overly restrictive when there were only a few pages of jobs on the site.
Once we have a healthy flow of traffic we intend to lay down a few ground rules to help increase the overall standard of jobs that appear on the site.
In terms of filtering out those jobs, we're working on that already. We've been waiting for the database to grow as it was overly restrictive when there were only a few pages of jobs on the site.
Trust me when I say that curating the content of your site right from the start is one of the most important things you can do.
It's might seem counterintuitive now, but letting a lower standard in now will set the tone for the site - and that not only affects the standard of job-posters you attract in the future but also the standard of potential hires you can attract.
What will impact your growth is offers no one is interested in. Better to post a few jobs that everyone is talking about than have 100's of jobs no one is talking about.
set.the.tone.early.
It's might seem counterintuitive now, but letting a lower standard in now will set the tone for the site - and that not only affects the standard of job-posters you attract in the future but also the standard of potential hires you can attract.
What will impact your growth is offers no one is interested in. Better to post a few jobs that everyone is talking about than have 100's of jobs no one is talking about.
set.the.tone.early.
As a job seeker I prefer you to tend towards overly selective than the reverse. I have no trouble finding quantity of jobs to apply for. It's in the "curated" job listing where I see value in your site.
That's just it, the site is heavily curated as it stands. For the record, we do have plans to launch more targeted sites down the line that focus on specific areas of tech so that may potentially solve your problem entirely!
Yes it is and I should have said I really like it so far as it solves a real pain for me. Especially as my background isn't standard, HR friendly fare. When my current project comes to a close at the end of the year I'll probably be looking at you guys first.
I was really commenting on "We've been waiting for the database to grow as it was overly restrictive when there were only a few pages of jobs on the site". If you have high standards for jobs being posted, I'd suggest you apply them with full rigor now rather than waiting till later. As my impression of the site now affects whether I'll remember you guys in 6 months time.
I'm of the opinion that co-founder searches aren't really valid, but if they are seperated into a targeted site then thats just as good for me.
I was really commenting on "We've been waiting for the database to grow as it was overly restrictive when there were only a few pages of jobs on the site". If you have high standards for jobs being posted, I'd suggest you apply them with full rigor now rather than waiting till later. As my impression of the site now affects whether I'll remember you guys in 6 months time.
I'm of the opinion that co-founder searches aren't really valid, but if they are seperated into a targeted site then thats just as good for me.
Imagine a web plugin called "Ban Hammer" where you can go around banning other people's content! The HN community would go nuts. Woo hoo!
You've done a good job with the design component of the site. It's simple and uncluttered and your choice of using just a couple of colors leads the eye quickly to the important bits of information and the action buttons. As the features grow, keep to that standard as much as possible. It'd be a shame to see that spartan effectiveness replaced by lots of filter fields and buttons and options that just become confusing overkill.
Thanks for the feedback!
Simplicity & quality was always top priority for us.
One of my biggest bugbears with job boards is the sheer amount of pointless clutter, share buttons, ads, external links, promo fields, etc.
We want to avoid that slippery slope like the plague!
Simplicity & quality was always top priority for us.
One of my biggest bugbears with job boards is the sheer amount of pointless clutter, share buttons, ads, external links, promo fields, etc.
We want to avoid that slippery slope like the plague!
Looks good.
It will probably never happen, but I would love to see a job board that had the employer rate the quality of candidate they are looking for and (using the same scale) the salary. Something like this:
Applicant Quality: Top 50% 25% 10% 5% 1% 0.5%
Salary for this pos: Top 50% 25% 10% 5% 1% 0.5%
In short, it would be great to call out those companies that want employees in the top 1% but are only willing to pay in the top 50%
Applicant Quality: Top 50% 25% 10% 5% 1% 0.5%
Salary for this pos: Top 50% 25% 10% 5% 1% 0.5%
In short, it would be great to call out those companies that want employees in the top 1% but are only willing to pay in the top 50%
Interesting thought. Now let me explain why that will never happen!
Every single employer values the top 1% differently. Take permanent Ruby Developers for example, I know of a company who's valuation for the top 1% is absolutely spot on. I know of another company in the same area that values the top 1% at about £10k less per annum. The point is, they both genuinely understand what the skill level and experience level of said 1% is, they just significantly disagree on the value of said 1%.
Every single employer values the top 1% differently. Take permanent Ruby Developers for example, I know of a company who's valuation for the top 1% is absolutely spot on. I know of another company in the same area that values the top 1% at about £10k less per annum. The point is, they both genuinely understand what the skill level and experience level of said 1% is, they just significantly disagree on the value of said 1%.
Something like this though could help to make labor a more realistic market. We can comparison shop almost any product via walmart or amazon, etc. Why shouldn't it be that way with employees?
I've been thinking about how to execute this for quite some time.
What I need:
* A wide range of employers who provide a shortlist of what they consider to be the factors that define the top 1%, 20%, & 50% in any given skill set plus a respective list of appropriate salary levels for said skill set.
* A list of employees who fit into each criteria and their average, current salary.
You would then need to source that data for every geographic region.
TL;DR: It's theoretically possible, it simply requires a lot of grunt work and co-operation & honesty from employers & employees.
What I need:
* A wide range of employers who provide a shortlist of what they consider to be the factors that define the top 1%, 20%, & 50% in any given skill set plus a respective list of appropriate salary levels for said skill set.
* A list of employees who fit into each criteria and their average, current salary.
You would then need to source that data for every geographic region.
TL;DR: It's theoretically possible, it simply requires a lot of grunt work and co-operation & honesty from employers & employees.
The quality of the job postings is extremely low. "Looking for an experienced Android developer as an intern". Are you kidding me?
I beg to differ (obviously).
One job you dislike doesn't imply the overall quality is poor.
The specific role you're referring to is a paid internship and they specify Have you played around with the platform?. Not exactly a high barrier of entry to a company that is known to be one of the better Android publishers out there.
One job you dislike doesn't imply the overall quality is poor.
The specific role you're referring to is a paid internship and they specify Have you played around with the platform?. Not exactly a high barrier of entry to a company that is known to be one of the better Android publishers out there.
I am curious whether "remote friendly" means applicants from specific geographic location like Europe/US? I ask to save time for those friendly folks who make time to write to applicants that they couldn't consider the application because of timezone differences and/or other geographic factors.
Hmmm. Not considered that before.
We want the site to be as clean and as seamless as possible so adding further caveats to 'Remote' positions might be counter-productive.
We want the site to be as clean and as seamless as possible so adding further caveats to 'Remote' positions might be counter-productive.
It would be useful to be able to search by location (e.g. near a place or postcode or current location). Is that a long term feature plan?
Short answer: Yes.
Location search is a definite requirement however the site in it's current format is almost entirely in MVP stage and we will roll out features and upgrades over the coming weeks and months.
Right now the only solution is to do a keyword search on your area which isn't ideal but it usually works.
Location search is a definite requirement however the site in it's current format is almost entirely in MVP stage and we will roll out features and upgrades over the coming weeks and months.
Right now the only solution is to do a keyword search on your area which isn't ideal but it usually works.
Who codes during a wedding reception? That's pretty disrespectful.
Artistic license. I took a few minutes out in between the ceremony and reception to push a few changes to staging and have a quick chat with Steve because they were playing on my mind.
Makes sense.
That statement does seem a little worrying to me. I know it's a chicken-and-egg problem, but how will you keep building traffic unless the quality really is very good?
And if anything, it will be easier to enforce that now than later. The site does seem to have a good number of jobs for being so young already, but it's still at a nice level where you can manually screen every application.
Maybe one way to separate jobs from ownership stakes would be another tab in the "Browse" section for "Equity"? In the same way that a job can be both Freelance & Remote Friendly, this could be a good way to keep certain jobs separate?
Enforcing quality is the best way to stand out I think; there are hundreds of job boards out there.
One thing I like about yours already is that quite a few specify the salary range. That's the sort of information that makes it higher quality to me.