Just sent my resignation letter and this is my plan.
51 comments
Sounds like an excellent justification for flaky procrastination. You can follow this plan and hope the things you learn on the way can be applied to your startup. Or you can take your best idea, work hard to build it and learn as you go.
+1 for learn as you go! The best way to get all the requisite skills is to start building your best idea and letting the project itself tell you what you need to know.
Good point.
The things I want to learn are fundamental enough that they'll apply to any programming task. I have tried learning as I go, and I agree it's best for most skills, but I've found there are learning tasks that demand more dedication.
Then again, this may just be my procrastinating self at work. :)
The things I want to learn are fundamental enough that they'll apply to any programming task. I have tried learning as I go, and I agree it's best for most skills, but I've found there are learning tasks that demand more dedication.
Then again, this may just be my procrastinating self at work. :)
I agree-- blow off the education part of this. Learn by doing (and taking 20 minute every day to read the very best blogs).
Screw fundamentals (sounds like you already have a decent base, anyway) -- just build something that someone wants to use/buy (preferably find a co-founder who you can brainstorm ideas with-- find a co-founder when you already have an idea is sometimes more challenging).
Screw fundamentals (sounds like you already have a decent base, anyway) -- just build something that someone wants to use/buy (preferably find a co-founder who you can brainstorm ideas with-- find a co-founder when you already have an idea is sometimes more challenging).
As for fundamentals, this is a better account of what I mean:
But if you're like me, you're not looking for one more trick, rather you're looking for a way of synthesizing what you already know, and building a rich framework onto which you can add new learning over a career.
(From Norvig's review of SICP at Amazon.)
This is not an objection to your advice. I will consider doing what you guys say.
But if you're like me, you're not looking for one more trick, rather you're looking for a way of synthesizing what you already know, and building a rich framework onto which you can add new learning over a career.
(From Norvig's review of SICP at Amazon.)
This is not an objection to your advice. I will consider doing what you guys say.
At risk of heresy, SICP isn't all it is cracked up to be. It certainly isn't worth quitting your job over. Any author who feels the need to include that many footnotes is being extremely inconsiderate to the reader.
I barely remember anything from the book, other than the pointless factoid about MIT's first president dying while saying "bituminous coal."
A better approach would be to get the problem sets for the SICP class, and see how far you can get without actually reading the book. Then just read enough so that you can finish the problems. Maybe use javascript instead of scheme, so it isn't a complete practical waste.
I barely remember anything from the book, other than the pointless factoid about MIT's first president dying while saying "bituminous coal."
A better approach would be to get the problem sets for the SICP class, and see how far you can get without actually reading the book. Then just read enough so that you can finish the problems. Maybe use javascript instead of scheme, so it isn't a complete practical waste.
You can combine filling-gaps and applying-to-YC by building something impressive during your 4 months. Building stuff is both the best way to learn about hacking, and the best way get YC's attention.
Better still: build something with someone else, who you can then start a startup with.
Better still: build something with someone else, who you can then start a startup with.
That's a big step and it takes courage. Good for you. I like most of your plan, except for one point: Why the 4-month delay? Study and a pet project!!! Doesn't seem like a high priority thing for someone who's betting his career on a startup. It sounds like an excuse to delay starting the hard work of a startup. Plus, I'm guessing that you'll be living off of your savings. If that's the case, then you have a limited time to do the try/fail cycle a few times before you have to get back to a full-time job. I think you should start right away, and you can do your study on the side.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
I intend to work very hard at study and the pet project. I'm not sure if I'm procrastinating, but I'm certain it's not to avoid hard work. It's doing something half heartedly that kills me. These particular learning topics, and this particular project, are things I've been feeling strongly for doing for a long time, and I want to get them behind me so I can be full hearted at whatever I do next.
As for the time, as I said in other reply I feel I'm more limited by age than cash.
Thanks for the feedback!
As for the time, as I said in other reply I feel I'm more limited by age than cash.
Thanks for the feedback!
"... which I want for personal use: a subset/bastardization of the editor part of Jef Raskin's Humane Environment (AKA Archy) ..."
added an article you are probably familiar with just the other day ~ http://rchi.raskincenter.org/index.php?title=Core_Principles
Archys core principles are ...
How about adding mouse support?
Think it was in a Woz podcast I heard woz saying Raskin had a thing against mice and liked keyboards better (but everywhere I search I see the contrary - suggested 3 button mouse for mac etc ~ http://tinyurl.com/2lespx )
added an article you are probably familiar with just the other day ~ http://rchi.raskincenter.org/index.php?title=Core_Principles
Archys core principles are ...
- data is sacred, never lose your work
- train of thought is sacred
- content & commands primal
- never do more work than necessary
How about adding mouse support?
Think it was in a Woz podcast I heard woz saying Raskin had a thing against mice and liked keyboards better (but everywhere I search I see the contrary - suggested 3 button mouse for mac etc ~ http://tinyurl.com/2lespx )
"... Jef did not want to incorporate what became the two most definitive aspects of Macintosh technology - the Motorola 68000 microprocessor and the mouse pointing device. Jef preferred the 6809, a cheaper but weaker processor which only had 16 bits of address space and would have been obsolete in just a year or two, since it couldn't address more than 64Kbytes. He was dead set against the mouse as well, preferring dedicated meta-keys to do the pointing ..."
ahaa ... here's that pesky Raskin article ~ http://tinyurl.com/5e22z So he was against the mouse & loved those keystrokes. As for the source? It's first hand from Mr Mac himself, Andy Hertzfeld on http://folklore.org
ahaa ... here's that pesky Raskin article ~ http://tinyurl.com/5e22z So he was against the mouse & loved those keystrokes. As for the source? It's first hand from Mr Mac himself, Andy Hertzfeld on http://folklore.org
Thanks for the pointers. I plan to use this as a text editor/hacking environment, and I don't use, nor want to use, the mouse for that.
"... Thanks for the pointers. I plan to use this as a text editor/hacking environment, and I don't use, nor want to use, the mouse for that ..."
On editors and hacking and writing unless you build in some sort of functionality to both syntax highlighting and parsers that recognise various languages, text formats you might have to cut+paste/drag & drop which easiest with a mouse. Don't discount using other editor applications for editing, validating.
At least that's what I've found.
On editors and hacking and writing unless you build in some sort of functionality to both syntax highlighting and parsers that recognise various languages, text formats you might have to cut+paste/drag & drop which easiest with a mouse. Don't discount using other editor applications for editing, validating.
At least that's what I've found.
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Can you afford it? How will you pay for rent and food? Do you have a co-founder?
I left my job last April, and barely made it 2 months without income. If you're not ready to start your company right now, then I recommend figuring out what you can do otherwise to improve your situation. In my case, I got a job at a much better company that's close to Boston. I'm learning a lot, I'm meeting tons of smart people, and I'm close to dozens of good schools.
Anyway, good luck, and stay upwind.
I left my job last April, and barely made it 2 months without income. If you're not ready to start your company right now, then I recommend figuring out what you can do otherwise to improve your situation. In my case, I got a job at a much better company that's close to Boston. I'm learning a lot, I'm meeting tons of smart people, and I'm close to dozens of good schools.
Anyway, good luck, and stay upwind.
I can afford to sustain my current frugal lifestyle past the timeframe I set in the original post. I'm selling part of the shares I own in my ex employer (I was an early employee back in the time. I left when they released the game, then came back a couple years later as a contractor).
I do have time pressure, for different reasons. I'm 32 and while I can see myself doing some less life draining types of startups at an older age, the time is running out to do the wild thing.
I don't have a cofounder and I'm not in a good location to find one. My immediate plan is to become and establish myself as great cofounder material by cranking out a few failures on the cheap, while I try and find likeminded people online. I'm willing to move to a hotter startup hub to find a cofounder, but due to living costs I'm hesitant to do it before I have something to show my abilities. [PS: I guess there are also visa issues; I haven't studied this yet.]
Thanks for the feedback, and good luck to you too!
I do have time pressure, for different reasons. I'm 32 and while I can see myself doing some less life draining types of startups at an older age, the time is running out to do the wild thing.
I don't have a cofounder and I'm not in a good location to find one. My immediate plan is to become and establish myself as great cofounder material by cranking out a few failures on the cheap, while I try and find likeminded people online. I'm willing to move to a hotter startup hub to find a cofounder, but due to living costs I'm hesitant to do it before I have something to show my abilities. [PS: I guess there are also visa issues; I haven't studied this yet.]
Thanks for the feedback, and good luck to you too!
Good luck!
Where are you located?
Where are you located?
hey vi por lo del hacktrackr que eres de chihuahua, de pura casualidad no estas estudiando en mty? pq si es asi me gustaria platicar contigo y escuchar tu opinion en relacion a un proyecto, escribo por aca pq no sale tu mail, el mio es mariorz(arroba)gmail.com saludos!
Galicia, northwest of Spain.
I wish you well, Goladus.
Winter 2008 or summer 2009 is too far out. Work expands to fill time after all. If you aim for Summer 2008 you might be able to do this better.
I don't discard applying earlier if I feel ready. Those were conservative estimates. Anyway, I just intend to go as fast as I can. "Plans are useless, planning is indispensable" and all that.
Find a customer who needs something. Do it for them. This will accomplish 3 things: 1. They will finance your endeavors. 2. You will automatically be working on something needed in the marketplace. 3. You will be focusing on what's needed like a laserbeam. DO NOT TAKE THIS ADVICE LIGHTLY! It's what my first mentor told me. I didn't follow this advice. Boy, am I sorry. It is spot on. I wasted years whistling my own tune.
When the project is finished, reevaluate. You may be surprised at what you think then.
When the project is finished, reevaluate. You may be surprised at what you think then.
Thanks for the advice.
If you mean doing contract/consulting work, I'm not interesting in that at this point. As for close interaction with customers, I can't agree more. I learned that lesson the hard way as an user interface programmer for a persistent online game. We got most of our feedback on the game forums, and game players are very opinionated customers. It was so much better to talk directly to them rather than being mediated by game designers. And definitely better than implementing in a vacuum only to find out later that what you did is not what they wanted.
If you mean doing contract/consulting work, I'm not interesting in that at this point. As for close interaction with customers, I can't agree more. I learned that lesson the hard way as an user interface programmer for a persistent online game. We got most of our feedback on the game forums, and game players are very opinionated customers. It was so much better to talk directly to them rather than being mediated by game designers. And definitely better than implementing in a vacuum only to find out later that what you did is not what they wanted.
I think ed meant to try to solve a problem a customer has, because at least then, you know somebody else wants it.
edw, it seems to me that you are talking about being an IT solutions provider?
Because no consumer will pay the $10-20K or so it takes to develop a product prototype from an idea on paper. The customer wants to pay the $19.99 for a finished product - and then maybe not.
Because no consumer will pay the $10-20K or so it takes to develop a product prototype from an idea on paper. The customer wants to pay the $19.99 for a finished product - and then maybe not.
Yes. If its ones and zeros, then it's an IT solution.
There are 7 million small businesses in the United States. Almost every one of them needs SOMETHING readers of this site can provide. Many of them are desperate, but don't know where to turn.
When they pay you for something, you don't have to pay them back and you don't have to give them equity. And you learn 10 times more by doing than reading or surfing. And they will "connect" you to others.
I have learned many technologies by reading, surfing, and playing. It was fun. And it usually led nowhere.
On the other hand...
I learned Visual Basic on the job by converting a local radio station's programming software.
I learned HTML on the job by building intranet reports from flat files for a local office supply distributor.
I learned Javascript on the job by building a front end for a local clinic's call center.
I learned PHP/MYSQL on the job by building mini-apps for several local small businesses.
Starting to get the picture?
I wasted almost no time learning what was cool unless I needed it. And I ran into problems I never would imagine if it wasn't for these jobs. I can't imagine learning anything any better way. I run into techno "know it alls" all the time. After 30 seconds, I can tell they read about it, but never did it. The day I become one of them, just shoot me.
There are 7 million small businesses in the United States. Almost every one of them needs SOMETHING readers of this site can provide. Many of them are desperate, but don't know where to turn.
When they pay you for something, you don't have to pay them back and you don't have to give them equity. And you learn 10 times more by doing than reading or surfing. And they will "connect" you to others.
I have learned many technologies by reading, surfing, and playing. It was fun. And it usually led nowhere.
On the other hand...
I learned Visual Basic on the job by converting a local radio station's programming software.
I learned HTML on the job by building intranet reports from flat files for a local office supply distributor.
I learned Javascript on the job by building a front end for a local clinic's call center.
I learned PHP/MYSQL on the job by building mini-apps for several local small businesses.
Starting to get the picture?
I wasted almost no time learning what was cool unless I needed it. And I ran into problems I never would imagine if it wasn't for these jobs. I can't imagine learning anything any better way. I run into techno "know it alls" all the time. After 30 seconds, I can tell they read about it, but never did it. The day I become one of them, just shoot me.
Just curious, did you do this independently as a 'small business', or was it as a consultant through a 'solutions provider'?
If independently, your business skills must be excellent - to get so many clients who would not choose an off the shelf solution.
But in any case, these are not products.
If independently, your business skills must be excellent - to get so many clients who would not choose an off the shelf solution.
But in any case, these are not products.
This is exactly how I make a living, for the last 5-8 years, depending on exactly how you count, and some clients will indeed pay 10s of thousands for software that they can't otherwise buy. It helps to be in a narrow industry, of course (mine was digital gold currencies, though I'm no longer doing anything in that market).
Good luck! If you have the luxury of not having to work, great otherwise you might want to add consulting in there in order to gain some real world experience while plugging those holes on your resume. If you can't find consulting work then transition some of that "brainstorming for project" into volunteer or internship work in a larger shop to gain experience. My philosophy is to use other company's time and money to gain experience and work on your own projects on the side.
If you do have an idea, don't wait for the straight face. Developing a prototype is fast and you can get something ready to show people your idea quickly. Get out there fast and often but the trick is to focus on obtaining funding if that is your ultimate goal, developing your idea can come after the initial money is in the bank but again that all depends on your financial needs.
If you do have an idea, don't wait for the straight face. Developing a prototype is fast and you can get something ready to show people your idea quickly. Get out there fast and often but the trick is to focus on obtaining funding if that is your ultimate goal, developing your idea can come after the initial money is in the bank but again that all depends on your financial needs.
I do have the luxury of not having to earn an income for some time. I have as much experience in working for a company as I want to have at this point. What I want right now is focus, and that I can't borrow. After a couple months, I'll probably want a cofounder and advice from others who have been there.
I do have a couple ideas but they are too implementation heavy, and I don't want to commit for so long before having tried lighter alternatives first.
Finally, I really feel I have some homework to do before I ask anyone for their money and attention.
Thanks for the comments and the encouragement!
I do have a couple ideas but they are too implementation heavy, and I don't want to commit for so long before having tried lighter alternatives first.
Finally, I really feel I have some homework to do before I ask anyone for their money and attention.
Thanks for the comments and the encouragement!
When I've spent time just learning I've always made it a point to consciously learn at least one new thing everyday. Maybe that rule would help you. Good luck..err..you said criticism not moral support..uh...then...you suck.
Thanks. I hope to learn more than way more than one new thing every day.
Kudos and good luck to you!
I have one piece of advice for you. Make sure that some of your early failures include other people. Many issues that bring down startups at their core are about people, not technology.
I have one piece of advice for you. Make sure that some of your early failures include other people. Many issues that bring down startups at their core are about people, not technology.
Wise point. I've been in a startup before [PS: As early employee; I can see how things can get even more emotional with founders], and I have seen and participated in spectacular clashes. I have also observed first hand, in not for profit projects, how important is to have the right chemistry in a team.
I would delay quitting. You should be able to gain skills in four hours per day programming outside of work.
Back when I would quit jobs to take care of stuff, I would have two productive weeks, but this would dwindle to days of reading after that. Only do it if you have enough of a goal and drive, or if this can force you into programming.
The trick is I'm setting my path up so it's motivating in itself. I'm doing what I most want to do. I like learning, I like programming, and I like making useful stuff. I can afford doing just that for a couple years, and even if nothing much comes out of it, it will have been worth it.
You have a point, though, and I'll watch out for motivation lows. Thanks for the heads up.
You have a point, though, and I'll watch out for motivation lows. Thanks for the heads up.
Thanks for your comments. I was aware that the initial delay in starting up can be seen as procrastination. I myself am not sure that's not the case, and that's the main reason why I bounce my ideas here. Maybe my comfy self is fooling me, but can it fool the YCnews swarm? ;) Let me add some more context, which I left out of the already long first post.
One crucial reason for quitting my job is indeed to focus on learning tasks I had set for myself. It's lack of focus, not time, what has been dragging me so far.
The first task is to finish absorbing SICP. I have read the book and watched the lectures before, but only as a quick first contact, skimming most of the latter parts and not doing the exercises. I've found that even this light exposure has made me a much better programmer. This time I'm going more exhaustively, writing down short summaries of the chapters and doing all the exercises as I find them.
As for math, I'm more interested in building some math muscle and intuition, rather than any specific knowledge. I have started reading Concrete Mathematics, by Knuth et al., and I find it very demanding but practicable. With my weak math background, this would take forever, and be too easy to put on hold, if I did it on the side of more urgent obligations. I tried.
I have other books and learning tasks in the backburner, but yes, those I can learn on the side. The above are the ones I want to finish before letting other focus consuming projects into my head.
I've found that the Archy-like editor project is a good playground for the ideas in SICP. The design is sound and well specified, so I can focus more on the programming part. I plan to use this as my hacking environment in the future.
I hope to be done earlier than four months with the tasks above. I'll try and hit two months, but I must admit my estimates are often short by a factor or pi, so a 2x padding seems right for a strict timebox.
There are other topics to reply; I'll do so in replies to the appropriate comments.
One crucial reason for quitting my job is indeed to focus on learning tasks I had set for myself. It's lack of focus, not time, what has been dragging me so far.
The first task is to finish absorbing SICP. I have read the book and watched the lectures before, but only as a quick first contact, skimming most of the latter parts and not doing the exercises. I've found that even this light exposure has made me a much better programmer. This time I'm going more exhaustively, writing down short summaries of the chapters and doing all the exercises as I find them.
As for math, I'm more interested in building some math muscle and intuition, rather than any specific knowledge. I have started reading Concrete Mathematics, by Knuth et al., and I find it very demanding but practicable. With my weak math background, this would take forever, and be too easy to put on hold, if I did it on the side of more urgent obligations. I tried.
I have other books and learning tasks in the backburner, but yes, those I can learn on the side. The above are the ones I want to finish before letting other focus consuming projects into my head.
I've found that the Archy-like editor project is a good playground for the ideas in SICP. The design is sound and well specified, so I can focus more on the programming part. I plan to use this as my hacking environment in the future.
I hope to be done earlier than four months with the tasks above. I'll try and hit two months, but I must admit my estimates are often short by a factor or pi, so a 2x padding seems right for a strict timebox.
There are other topics to reply; I'll do so in replies to the appropriate comments.
I honestly can't imagine quitting a job without an idea of what product I was building. Watch out for this warning sign: A thought enters your head, "Hey, I'll build an online app that let's people organize their data!!!" That'll sell like madhouse.
I have a couple ideas, and plenty to do until I really want more.
I don't have any experience, but this looks like a solid plan. If you mean what you say, I'm sure you'll be fine. Just keep focused!
how will you pay your bills?
My burn rate is very low. I live in a cheap locale, compared to where I earned my savings, and I own a bit of stock in the company I just left. I had already set up a quite suitable home office before quitting, and I don't foresee many big expenses barring EC2 fees.
sounds like a good plan, good luck
Good luck!!!
My immediate plan is to plug the most obvious holes in my CS and math education. Being an art school dropout, I have plenty of those, but there are a few that I really want to address now, because otherwise I know they will be nagging me at inopportune times.
I'll also be catching up on the reading recommendations in the Library section of this site. I've read most of them already, but I'm sure many of them will make more sense now.
In parallel to such reading, I'll finish a pet project with no business aspirations, which I want for personal use: a subset/bastardization of the editor part of Jef Raskin's Humane Environment (AKA Archy). I plan to use that as my programming editor from then on. I did a couple prototypes in the past and I know I like it. I don't like Archy itself because of its compromise of using alt keys for leaping; I got myself a thinkpad-like keyboard with buttons under the space bar for this purpose. Again, this is something I had put on hold for too long, and I want to give it a chance before I commit full force to a startup.
I'll timebox 4 months for this although, in good programmer optimism tradition, I hope I'll be done earlier. After that, done or not, I plan to put out a few cheap startup failures fast. This is much in the spirit of the common advice to novice Go players: "lose your first fifty games fast". I'll just brainstorm for projects that I can execute by myself in, say, one month. At the end of the timeboxed period, if the project is not anywhere near shippable state, I shelve it and move to something else. Otherwise, I throw it at people and see what happens. Then follow up on the ones that get a better reaction.
From this I expect to get some basic competence in business (esp. marketing and dealing with users), system administration, and fluency in web programming (my background is in user interface design and programming for a MMOG). I also expect to get something I can show to potential cofounders so they can evaluate my taste and my ability to execute. And who knows, maybe something more ambitious grows out of one of these ideas.
My goal is to be able to apply to YC with a straight face in winter 2008 or summer 2009.
Please let me know what do you think about this. Don't pull any punches; I'm interested in criticism, objections, and alternatives, rather than moral support.
Thanks for reading this far!