British teenage designer of Summly app hits jackpot(bbc.co.uk)
bbc.co.uk
British teenage designer of Summly app hits jackpot
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16306742
14 comments
> "D'Aloisio is by no means a typical teenager - he is polite, highly motivated and enthusiastic."
> Wow, wonder how many other groups they'd be able to get away with stereotyping like that.
Here on HN, try "Redditor" ;-)
> Wow, wonder how many other groups they'd be able to get away with stereotyping like that.
Here on HN, try "Redditor" ;-)
I'm cynical when I read these sorts of articles, especially when the person involved has good links through relatives: "the son of a lawyer and an investment banker".
It should be praised that someone can show initiative like this, but I just can't help thinking it's happening too easily - especially getting free PR on the BBC website.
It should be praised that someone can show initiative like this, but I just can't help thinking it's happening too easily - especially getting free PR on the BBC website.
A couple days ago BBC was carrying the story of a 15-year-old who had become the youngest person to climb the Seven Summits (the tallest summit on each continent). He was, of course, the child of two wealthy mountaineers.
[deleted]
Get off your PC horse.
Reality based generalization is not "stereotyping" (and all stereotyping is not false).
Really, we people from other parts of the world --the victims of stereotypes ourselves-- are incredibly tired of all this "guilt" and "tiptoeing around issues" mentality going on from that side of the Atlantic. As if anyone's feelings will be hurt if somebody calls the typical teenager impolite or un-motivated...
In this part of the world we see as comic how people in a well known country are oh-so-sensitive about how someone "stereotypes", say, a Mexican person or a black person, while the same country has used black people as slaves first and second rate citizens second up until the '60s (with a disproportionate amount of them vs whites in prison even now), and has stolen several states (CA, TX, NM, UT, CO etc) from Mexico.
If you want to fix something, try to fix the harsh realities instead of BS like this.
Reality based generalization is not "stereotyping" (and all stereotyping is not false).
Really, we people from other parts of the world --the victims of stereotypes ourselves-- are incredibly tired of all this "guilt" and "tiptoeing around issues" mentality going on from that side of the Atlantic. As if anyone's feelings will be hurt if somebody calls the typical teenager impolite or un-motivated...
In this part of the world we see as comic how people in a well known country are oh-so-sensitive about how someone "stereotypes", say, a Mexican person or a black person, while the same country has used black people as slaves first and second rate citizens second up until the '60s (with a disproportionate amount of them vs whites in prison even now), and has stolen several states (CA, TX, NM, UT, CO etc) from Mexico.
If you want to fix something, try to fix the harsh realities instead of BS like this.
It's not a reality based generalization though, it's unfounded nonsense - like the thought that black people can jump really high compared to white people, you can die if you leave a fan on while you sleep, or that you can identify criminals by measuring their skulls.
All of these beliefs have been shared by millions of people at some time, but that does not make them true and certainly does not make them suitable for reprinting as implied fact by a state-backed, high quality, supposedly objective news organization.
I suppose I am a rather stereotypical Brit in that in this part of the world we don't really care about harsh realities in other countries but we do care about the quality of journalism coming out of our beloved BBC.
All of these beliefs have been shared by millions of people at some time, but that does not make them true and certainly does not make them suitable for reprinting as implied fact by a state-backed, high quality, supposedly objective news organization.
I suppose I am a rather stereotypical Brit in that in this part of the world we don't really care about harsh realities in other countries but we do care about the quality of journalism coming out of our beloved BBC.
"""It's not a reality based generalization though, it's unfounded nonsense - like the thought that black people can jump really high compared to white people, you can die if you leave a fan on while you sleep, or that you can identify criminals by measuring their skulls."""
"Completely unfounded nonsense", how? Because, people just don't know enough teenagers to generalize that they aren't in general that motivated?
He is comparing the general teenager with a 16 guy who learned programming on his own, built an app people want to use in hundreds of thousands, and even got an investment for it. It's only reasonable to deem him quite apart from the average teenager in the motivation department. And judging from the success of GTD methodologies and such crap, even from the average adult.
"""All of these beliefs have been shared by millions of people at some time, but that does not make them true and certainly does not make them suitable for reprinting as implied fact by a state-backed, high quality, supposedly objective news organization."""
The reporting that a kid that managed SUCH AND SUCH is more motivated than the average kid, is nothing like Lombroso's theory or some urban legend about dying when sleeping with a fan on. It's a simple observation and statement of fact.
As for the report on the extra politeness of the kid --compared to the average kid--, do you really believe that a reporter cannot spot a polite kid when he sees one? Or, do you think that he hasn't seen enough kids in his life to be able to discern any difference in politeness levels?
(Note: I've worked as an teacher for a spell, and I know that there are kids that are far more motivated than the average kid, and kids far more polite than the average kid. I also know one when I see one).
"Completely unfounded nonsense", how? Because, people just don't know enough teenagers to generalize that they aren't in general that motivated?
He is comparing the general teenager with a 16 guy who learned programming on his own, built an app people want to use in hundreds of thousands, and even got an investment for it. It's only reasonable to deem him quite apart from the average teenager in the motivation department. And judging from the success of GTD methodologies and such crap, even from the average adult.
"""All of these beliefs have been shared by millions of people at some time, but that does not make them true and certainly does not make them suitable for reprinting as implied fact by a state-backed, high quality, supposedly objective news organization."""
The reporting that a kid that managed SUCH AND SUCH is more motivated than the average kid, is nothing like Lombroso's theory or some urban legend about dying when sleeping with a fan on. It's a simple observation and statement of fact.
As for the report on the extra politeness of the kid --compared to the average kid--, do you really believe that a reporter cannot spot a polite kid when he sees one? Or, do you think that he hasn't seen enough kids in his life to be able to discern any difference in politeness levels?
(Note: I've worked as an teacher for a spell, and I know that there are kids that are far more motivated than the average kid, and kids far more polite than the average kid. I also know one when I see one).
A group whose members are part of it only for a short period of their lives; and who are clearly not being discriminated by society in any meaningful way, shape or form.
I understand the writer needs an introduction to the article, but F everything about starting with this:
"Most teenagers will find any reason under the sun not to do their homework."
No most won't and stop repeating it.
"Most teenagers will find any reason under the sun not to do their homework."
No most won't and stop repeating it.
The writer was, at some point in his life, a spoiled teenager. Most of my friends and other teenage students near me, (By the way, I'm from India, 15) love to do their homework, as, it's challenging and we feel something after completing it. Same is the case for most of the teenagers in other parts of my country, nearly everyone does their homework properly.
It's the BBC, so I guess the writer is from the UK. In which case, she is propogating the "I'm an idiot and I can't be bovered to work" attitude that seems prevalent among some of the youth there. Shame really, and from the BBC too.
"""The writer was, at some point in his life, a spoiled teenager. Most of my friends and other teenage students near me, (By the way, I'm from India, 15) love to do their homework, as, it's challenging and we feel something after completing it."""
Yeah, we sure buy this...
Yeah, we sure buy this...
I am from India. I find the remark quite plausible.
Heh. They should have asked him what "ontological detection" means.
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22ontological+detection%22+...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_(information_science)
There's no way he fit a useful semantic network in an iPhone app, and I doubt he interfaces with an external one such as OpenCyc, or in fact uses any kind of automated reasoning that can sort of be classified as "ontological".
It's VERY impressive for his age (even if it doesn't actually work that well outside the demo/testcases, according to a commenter below), but more general terms such as "it uses Computational Linguistics" would sound just as impressive and are actually descriptive instead of meaningless buzzwords.
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22ontological+detection%22+...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_(information_science)
There's no way he fit a useful semantic network in an iPhone app, and I doubt he interfaces with an external one such as OpenCyc, or in fact uses any kind of automated reasoning that can sort of be classified as "ontological".
It's VERY impressive for his age (even if it doesn't actually work that well outside the demo/testcases, according to a commenter below), but more general terms such as "it uses Computational Linguistics" would sound just as impressive and are actually descriptive instead of meaningless buzzwords.
"There's no way he fit a useful semantic network in an iPhone app"
Define "useful".
It doesn't have to be big to be useful. A perfectly fine for summation purposes semantic network can fit in an iPhone. The bloody thing has several GBs of storage last time I checked.
Define "useful".
It doesn't have to be big to be useful. A perfectly fine for summation purposes semantic network can fit in an iPhone. The bloody thing has several GBs of storage last time I checked.
I feel I have to say something positive in light of the other comments; this is great to see from a 16 year old.
Isn't it redundant to summarize BBC articles? A bit off topic, but I do think it's a horrible way to demo your app considering that the BBC's online news outlet has been publishing articles that feature "paragraphs" which are rarely longer than a single sentence for years. In other words, summarized news. Still an interesting concept. Quite interesting that this idea has already been pointed out well over a year ago out by one HNer, Geee, via Open Text Summarizer. Makes you wonder what he's actually using to summarize the content.
Interesting that I suggested this idea for someone asking for app ideas on HN almost 2 years ago.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1450570
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1450570
Regarding the hype of this app -- this is a response from a friend who is a journalist and has covered this kid's app :
"unfortunately the kid is pretty good at marketing himself, and a 16 year old app developer makes a good story"
"unfortunately the kid is pretty good at marketing himself, and a 16 year old app developer makes a good story"
This is true. This gizmodo article covers how he "markets himself":
http://gizmodo.com/5830076/how-i-made-a-15+year+old-app-deve...
I don't think a $250,000 investment is considered a "jackpot".
It's probably not a jackpot in terms of this project, but imagine how much this kid will learn in the process. It's a jackpot for his growth as an entrepreneur, if he sticks with it.
The same can be said for deals with record labels. I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing, it may be a good thing since it motivates more aspiring talent.
Well, I can live very comfortably for 10 years with that kind of money, and no work at all -- and I live in one of the most expensive European countries (save for rent, which is cheap).
I'd call it a jackpot alright.
I'd call it a jackpot alright.
A MacBook when he was 9 ? Damn, I'm 32 and still cannot really justify one. And I'm sure his parents had nothing to do with his funding arrangements, of course.
I hate to talk about privilege, and this kid is clearly smart, but the smell of upper class is hardly bearable, sorry.
I hate to talk about privilege, and this kid is clearly smart, but the smell of upper class is hardly bearable, sorry.
I'm 30, and I don't own a MacBook either, but I don't see them as above an upper-middle class income bracket, I'm certain you can afford them if you're into software development.
I wouldn't give them to a 9-year old either, but his parents are "a lawyer and an investment banker", so it sounds reasonable (and I guess that being the son of an investment banker probably helped the funding).
Edit: here's GigaOm's original interview linked in the BBC article
http://gigaom.com/2011/12/13/meet-the-internets-newest-boy-g...
I wouldn't give them to a 9-year old either, but his parents are "a lawyer and an investment banker", so it sounds reasonable (and I guess that being the son of an investment banker probably helped the funding).
Edit: here's GigaOm's original interview linked in the BBC article
http://gigaom.com/2011/12/13/meet-the-internets-newest-boy-g...
tl;dr "His parents are rich and I'm incredibly jealous".
He was given a macbook age 9. What's the point of your sarcastic jab "And I'm sure his parents had nothing to do with his funding arrangements, of course."? Of course they did, but why does it matter?
I hate to talk about privilege, and this kid is clearly smart, but the smell of upper class is hardly bearable, sorry.
He's smart and you hate to talk about class but you can't bear hearing about his text summarization software because of the contents of his parent's bank account or because he has access to more stuff than you? What?
He was given a macbook age 9. What's the point of your sarcastic jab "And I'm sure his parents had nothing to do with his funding arrangements, of course."? Of course they did, but why does it matter?
I hate to talk about privilege, and this kid is clearly smart, but the smell of upper class is hardly bearable, sorry.
He's smart and you hate to talk about class but you can't bear hearing about his text summarization software because of the contents of his parent's bank account or because he has access to more stuff than you? What?
I think the issue he is raising is that there are certainly other kids out there that are less privileged (but still privileged) that have achieved more but don't get any fame|money|respect simply because they aren't the son of an investment banker.
In the traditional sense, it'd be hard to tell whether he's upper class or not. From the way he presents himself, he almost certainly attends a public school, but these days the majority of people at public school aren't upper class by lineage. His parents are certainly wealthy, and I'd imagine that a considerable portion of his success is due to being well funded (my parents certainly wouldn't have bought me an iPhone or macbook at the age of 12) and well supported at home.
Fundamentally, I'm sure the guy is of above average intelligence. He has very good support from home, and actually has funding for his startup. However, apart from his age there's little differentiating this from other iPhone app based startups, and I would be surprised if he manages to maintain the level of progress he's had recently once life starts to be complicated. If his life is anything like mine was at 16, school is completely unchallenging and he'll have oodles of free time. That doesn't last forever!
Fundamentally, I'm sure the guy is of above average intelligence. He has very good support from home, and actually has funding for his startup. However, apart from his age there's little differentiating this from other iPhone app based startups, and I would be surprised if he manages to maintain the level of progress he's had recently once life starts to be complicated. If his life is anything like mine was at 16, school is completely unchallenging and he'll have oodles of free time. That doesn't last forever!
Nitpick: being the son of a banker and a lawyer hardly qualifies you as "upper class", even if that was relevant.
This is the UK, where the upper class is more hereditary than job based unlike in the US. Banking and law are fairly common professions for the upper class, so he may well be upper class.
Nitpick: being the son of an investment banker (not a retail banker; there is a big difference) and a lawyer (barrister in the UK) likely places this family in the top 1% of income earners in the UK. By most people's definitions, that qualifies their family as "upper class".
I think it does. Less than 20% of Americans make over 100k per year.
Entry level in IB makes 70+ min. After a graduate degree we are talking 100 to 300k per year. By the time that person has had kids, especially a nine year old they are probably making 500k min. I don't know British IB salaries, but I imagine they are as high.
Law could be anywhere from 50k to 1mm so it really depends.
Entry level in IB makes 70+ min. After a graduate degree we are talking 100 to 300k per year. By the time that person has had kids, especially a nine year old they are probably making 500k min. I don't know British IB salaries, but I imagine they are as high.
Law could be anywhere from 50k to 1mm so it really depends.
You (and the grandparent) are misapplying the American conception of class (money) to a Briton. It's about birth and schooling here - money is irrelevant. The boy seems likely to be middle class. (Upper class means a member of the aristocracy in the UK, FWIW).
Got it. Good to know
That's not quite accurate. There are several definitions of the upper class. No one said he was a royal or a lord.
From the financial standpoint, he is upper class alright, even if the Eton guys would snub him.
From the financial standpoint, he is upper class alright, even if the Eton guys would snub him.
Yes, there are "several definitions" (as there are with most terms), but I'm talking about the normal and popular one - the one you'll find in contemporary and historical literature and on Wikipedia, etc. Here's wikipedia:
> The British "upper class" is statistically very small and consists of the peerage, gentry, and hereditary landowners. These people were traditionally the wealthiest in the land having inherited money and position. The majority of aristocratic families originated in the merchant class, and were ennobled between the 14th and 19th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure_of_Britain#Upp...
Just as an aside - public schools like Eton were originally exclusively for the middle class (aristocrat children would have been privately tutored) and though since 1900 they have expanded in class terms to accommodate the Upper Classes (obviously including the Royal Family) there's no way a middle class person would feel out of place there.
> The British "upper class" is statistically very small and consists of the peerage, gentry, and hereditary landowners. These people were traditionally the wealthiest in the land having inherited money and position. The majority of aristocratic families originated in the merchant class, and were ennobled between the 14th and 19th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure_of_Britain#Upp...
Just as an aside - public schools like Eton were originally exclusively for the middle class (aristocrat children would have been privately tutored) and though since 1900 they have expanded in class terms to accommodate the Upper Classes (obviously including the Royal Family) there's no way a middle class person would feel out of place there.
What's so privileged about getting a MacBook 7 years ago? Why does it matter that a 9-year-old kid's parents handled the "funding arrangements" (ie. bought their son a laptop)? And clearly he could justify one: video editing and iPhone development starting from when he was 12 years old.
[deleted]
So a child got a MacBook and made a popular app with it which garnered serious attention from investors.
And then you complain that he was given a MacBook?
And then you complain that he was given a MacBook?
Are you a software developer? Are you underpaid?
Software developers are paid nowhere near as much in the UK.
"""Damn, I'm 32 and still cannot really justify one."""
In the US, about 20 million people have one. It's not that big of a deal.
"""I hate to talk about privilege, and this kid is clearly smart, but the smell of upper class is hardly bearable, sorry."""
Yeah, because it's so easy for them, that tons of other upper class kid have done something similar, right?
Actually, real "upper class" kids wouldn't bother do anything like that at all. Why spoil their perfectly good lazy existence and fun-having?
In the US, about 20 million people have one. It's not that big of a deal.
"""I hate to talk about privilege, and this kid is clearly smart, but the smell of upper class is hardly bearable, sorry."""
Yeah, because it's so easy for them, that tons of other upper class kid have done something similar, right?
Actually, real "upper class" kids wouldn't bother do anything like that at all. Why spoil their perfectly good lazy existence and fun-having?
App aside, this kid has a fantastic camera presence, although some of his words made no sense ("quickly and instantaneously") I would guess a large part of his success is down to his ability to talk so well.
It's odd you say that because the one thing I noticed was that he didn't seem be very comfortable describing the product in laymen's terms. His word usage seemed forced and his hand movements too. He had good camera presence insofar that he was bold and moderate in volume. Beyond that, I don't see what you mean.
Any insight into the tech this is using?
Opening the ipa file, and browsing the contents, there are a couple of plain text files - containing stop words, dictionaries and others on natural language processing.
The summarised results from the app are very random - pick any article other than the test case in the video and you won't get any useful output, 3 random sentences usually.
The summarised results from the app are very random - pick any article other than the test case in the video and you won't get any useful output, 3 random sentences usually.
From DataInfo.rtf in the iap:
StopWords: common words in languages: Swedish, English, Mandarin, Italian, French, German, Spanish Japanese, Russian, Finnish, Dutch.
Special Word: discard pronouns/trigger keywords in all of above languages.
Currently removes all pronoun in sentences
Stop Words From Where:
http://www.ranks.nl/resources/stopwords.html http://www.lextek.com/manuals/onix/stopwords1.html http://www.lextek.com/manuals/onix/stopwords2.html http://www.link-assistant.com/seo-stop-words.html English
http://members.unine.ch/jacques.savoy/clef/index.html http://wiki.apache.org/solr/LanguageAnalysis Other languages
http://hi.baidu.com/zhaocy0113/blog/item/146b5c346a738c4d251... http://tribes.tribe.net/geographicalife/thread/98f6abb6-71bf... Chinese
http://dnnspeedblog.com/SpeedBlog/PostID/3187/Japanese-Stop-...
http://www.ranks.nl/stopwords/japanese.html Japanese
THEN ALL TRANSLATE ENGLISH FIRST STUFF
LENGTH STOP: 19,070
LENGTH GLOBAL: 8059
LENGTH SPECIAL: 362
Good means no change/Draft little change/Bad 000s
StopWords: common words in languages: Swedish, English, Mandarin, Italian, French, German, Spanish Japanese, Russian, Finnish, Dutch.
Special Word: discard pronouns/trigger keywords in all of above languages.
Currently removes all pronoun in sentences
Stop Words From Where:
http://www.ranks.nl/resources/stopwords.html http://www.lextek.com/manuals/onix/stopwords1.html http://www.lextek.com/manuals/onix/stopwords2.html http://www.link-assistant.com/seo-stop-words.html English
http://members.unine.ch/jacques.savoy/clef/index.html http://wiki.apache.org/solr/LanguageAnalysis Other languages
http://hi.baidu.com/zhaocy0113/blog/item/146b5c346a738c4d251... http://tribes.tribe.net/geographicalife/thread/98f6abb6-71bf... Chinese
http://dnnspeedblog.com/SpeedBlog/PostID/3187/Japanese-Stop-...
http://www.ranks.nl/stopwords/japanese.html Japanese
THEN ALL TRANSLATE ENGLISH FIRST STUFF
LENGTH STOP: 19,070
LENGTH GLOBAL: 8059
LENGTH SPECIAL: 362
Good means no change/Draft little change/Bad 000s
I thought it was a stretch that D'Aloiso taught himself the linear algebra, statistics, probability theory, NLP, and machine learning required to implement such an algorithm. Especially since he doesn't take a deep interest in programming.
It appears to be an iteration of his previous app Trimit:
http://www.fastcompany.com/1772823/the-15-year-old-brain-beh...
http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/15/trimit-summarizes-emails-bl...
I am guessing that he just outsourced the AI/algorithm part based on the articles content: 'we' and 'The Trimit team' and Nick just designed the UI. Overall, great concept, but poor execution (in terms of accuracy) and journalists seem to be buying the hype.
I am guessing that he just outsourced the AI/algorithm part based on the articles content: 'we' and 'The Trimit team' and Nick just designed the UI. Overall, great concept, but poor execution (in terms of accuracy) and journalists seem to be buying the hype.
Is there any legal and simple way of obtaining the ipa file without using iTunes (i.e. on Linux)?
"Summly’s patent pending technology has been evaluated by MIT Researchers and proven state-of-the-art. We utilise ontological detection and machine learning techniques in our summarisation processes.
Our core technology is language independent and produces great results out of the box for any language. In addition, specific optimisations have been made for English, French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, German, Swedish, Mandarin, Russian, Japanese and Finnish."
http://www.summly.com/en/technology.html
Our core technology is language independent and produces great results out of the box for any language. In addition, specific optimisations have been made for English, French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, German, Swedish, Mandarin, Russian, Japanese and Finnish."
http://www.summly.com/en/technology.html
It says that, but to what extend is it the truth? I can put that on my website too if my friend from MIT tells me something I did is state-of-the-art just from hearing me describe it (aka not digging into the code etc).
I'm not saying it isn't true, but from the results the app gives on non demo cases and from the discussion in this thread i'm not sure?
I'm not saying it isn't true, but from the results the app gives on non demo cases and from the discussion in this thread i'm not sure?
"I find the product and the design of the product much more interesting than the programming"
Of course. Programming is hard work.
Of course. Programming is hard work.
Good job kid. Keep it going
[deleted]
Wow, wonder how many other groups they'd be able to get away with stereotyping like that.
"D'Aloisio is by no means a typical (woman|Mexican|black person|obese person) - he is polite, highly motivated and enthusiastic."
Ouch.
Makes the BBC sound out of touch, considering that most teenagers are under a historically unprecedented amount of pressure to succeed (eg: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6221872).