Ask HN: Should I quit college to pursue my dream?
22 comments
Gut reaction, no.
Your competitors are huge and massively respected companies, like Craigslist, eBay and Amazon, which have network effects on their side. Unless you can grow in a niche (ala AirBnB ... but a different niche), and get very lucky, you won't beat them before running out of money. I doubt you will get funding, if degrees are so respected in Belgium.
Unless there's something you're not telling about your plan, it's too likely to fail, leaving you 24 or 25 without a degree.
It seems your main issue is "resentment against the way college teaches". College is like school - it's badly run, and sucks, but the people who say it sucks are just being losers. Just accept the BS, do whatever it takes to pass (including cheating, if it's the norm) and enjoy learning new stuff.
Your competitors are huge and massively respected companies, like Craigslist, eBay and Amazon, which have network effects on their side. Unless you can grow in a niche (ala AirBnB ... but a different niche), and get very lucky, you won't beat them before running out of money. I doubt you will get funding, if degrees are so respected in Belgium.
Unless there's something you're not telling about your plan, it's too likely to fail, leaving you 24 or 25 without a degree.
It seems your main issue is "resentment against the way college teaches". College is like school - it's badly run, and sucks, but the people who say it sucks are just being losers. Just accept the BS, do whatever it takes to pass (including cheating, if it's the norm) and enjoy learning new stuff.
I will disagree with others here, and say (with disclaimers) to go for it.
A little background on me: I finished high school at 14, dropped out of college at 16, and am now on my fourth company. Now, at 24, I have about 8 years real-life business experience and hands on technical field experience. All time spent learning to be creative with technologies that are actually used in the real world, instead of decade old tech. Dropping out was one of the best life choices I ever made.
At my current company I literally can't even consider hiring most college grads until after they have spent several years out of college spent catching up to the the industry. At that point they are much older than me which can make it awkward working for someone much younger. Not a single person fresh out of college has had the experience required to pass the skill evaluation tests I give to interested applicants. The majority of the people who HAVE passed are ones who spent their time learning to manipulate and do new things with cutting edge tech on their own, rather than memorizing the tech of 10 years ago in a classroom.
The reality is in today's tech world, the list of companies that care about degrees is getting short, and most are not worth working for. Even big players like Google, Facebook, and Twitter, typically hire engineers based on either a degree OR "equivalent experience." If you prove you have the skills needed to do the job, they could really care less where you learned them. If you did unique and innovative things with the time you would of otherwise been in school, it will probably INCREASE your odds with many companies. It shows you are self motivated, can teach yourself new things, and get stuff done.
Go get the experience. It will put you years ahead in many respects, and save you a lot of debt for a piece of paper that fewer and fewer actually care about. Even if your idea fails, then open source it, show off the skill and engineering that went into producing it, and move on to the next thing. A lack of reaching a project's goal is only failure if you fail to learn something. Take what you learned, regroup, and use that knowledge to do the next thing even better.
I do want to make it clear however, that skipping college is actually the _harder_ path. Don't have any delusions otherwise. It is also most certainly not for everyone. To make it without college you need to be self motivated, a hard worker, willing to fail and retry as many times as it takes, and good at teaching yourself. If those are true for you, then if your time is well applied, the benefits can be huge.
My TL;DR; advice: Don't spend your life wondering "what if?". If you are self motivated then go do it. Keep the "education fund" in your pocket to pursue your own ideas.
A little background on me: I finished high school at 14, dropped out of college at 16, and am now on my fourth company. Now, at 24, I have about 8 years real-life business experience and hands on technical field experience. All time spent learning to be creative with technologies that are actually used in the real world, instead of decade old tech. Dropping out was one of the best life choices I ever made.
At my current company I literally can't even consider hiring most college grads until after they have spent several years out of college spent catching up to the the industry. At that point they are much older than me which can make it awkward working for someone much younger. Not a single person fresh out of college has had the experience required to pass the skill evaluation tests I give to interested applicants. The majority of the people who HAVE passed are ones who spent their time learning to manipulate and do new things with cutting edge tech on their own, rather than memorizing the tech of 10 years ago in a classroom.
The reality is in today's tech world, the list of companies that care about degrees is getting short, and most are not worth working for. Even big players like Google, Facebook, and Twitter, typically hire engineers based on either a degree OR "equivalent experience." If you prove you have the skills needed to do the job, they could really care less where you learned them. If you did unique and innovative things with the time you would of otherwise been in school, it will probably INCREASE your odds with many companies. It shows you are self motivated, can teach yourself new things, and get stuff done.
Go get the experience. It will put you years ahead in many respects, and save you a lot of debt for a piece of paper that fewer and fewer actually care about. Even if your idea fails, then open source it, show off the skill and engineering that went into producing it, and move on to the next thing. A lack of reaching a project's goal is only failure if you fail to learn something. Take what you learned, regroup, and use that knowledge to do the next thing even better.
I do want to make it clear however, that skipping college is actually the _harder_ path. Don't have any delusions otherwise. It is also most certainly not for everyone. To make it without college you need to be self motivated, a hard worker, willing to fail and retry as many times as it takes, and good at teaching yourself. If those are true for you, then if your time is well applied, the benefits can be huge.
My TL;DR; advice: Don't spend your life wondering "what if?". If you are self motivated then go do it. Keep the "education fund" in your pocket to pursue your own ideas.
Should I quit college to pursue my dream?
No don't do it, unless you've been diagnosed with a fatal disease that will shorten your life span to a few months, I don't see the reason to hurry.
>* building my own startup (eBay competitor)
If you think your startup will be able to compete with eBay today it's likely that it will be able to compete withy eBay in a few years. They are an established company after all they are very likely to purse a stable business model. You could start actively working in your prototype in your free time, so that when you start your startup you have a stable code base and you don't have to code like mad. Have you calculated how much it will cost you to fund this startup, do you have enough savings to last until you are profitable. The legal aspect is something you should also think about although I don't really know what legal problems there could be but. Just don't make any dumb decision now like having kids or getting married, postpone this for later and you can rack up some savings for your future projects. If you think your location could affect your plans if you have a degree and try hard enough, I am sure you could get a job in the US and eventually be on your way to open a startup there (?).
>It seems your main issue is "resentment against the way college teaches". College is like school - it's badly run, and sucks, but the people who say it sucks are just being losers. Just accept the BS, do whatever it takes to pass (including cheating, if it's the norm) and enjoy learning new stuff.
From my personal experience I can tell you that this is true. To make a long story short, I dropped out of high school on my fourth semester. I stopped putting in the effort to pass the subjects, especially Visual Basic 6 (I hate Microsoft products) and because of this I only approved two subjects. My classmate (another slacker) and I, had to do a project with all the stuff we where supposed to know about VB6, but we didn't even had a fscking clue. That's how much we slacked during classes, I even skipped some. We started doing the project four days before the due date, we where reading and downloading documentation like mad but yet we couldn't manage to finish on time, a day before the due date me and my classmate where discussing the possibility of cheating by buying the project from some older guys that knew VB6. I felt that it was to much fscking trouble and bailed out. Even if we got the project in, we would've had to approve a lot of global exams since could only advance to the next grade with three failed subjects. No joke, I became a NEET for two years in which I spent most of my time reading about Linux and related topics. Just until recently I started going to night school (still not working) to make up for the lost time. If I had worked hard in the beginning or cheated and studied like mad at the end of that semester, I wouldn't be telling this story. I don't regret those two years in which I spent most of my time reading, I regret those two years in which I postponed the BS.
No don't do it, unless you've been diagnosed with a fatal disease that will shorten your life span to a few months, I don't see the reason to hurry.
>* building my own startup (eBay competitor)
If you think your startup will be able to compete with eBay today it's likely that it will be able to compete withy eBay in a few years. They are an established company after all they are very likely to purse a stable business model. You could start actively working in your prototype in your free time, so that when you start your startup you have a stable code base and you don't have to code like mad. Have you calculated how much it will cost you to fund this startup, do you have enough savings to last until you are profitable. The legal aspect is something you should also think about although I don't really know what legal problems there could be but. Just don't make any dumb decision now like having kids or getting married, postpone this for later and you can rack up some savings for your future projects. If you think your location could affect your plans if you have a degree and try hard enough, I am sure you could get a job in the US and eventually be on your way to open a startup there (?).
>It seems your main issue is "resentment against the way college teaches". College is like school - it's badly run, and sucks, but the people who say it sucks are just being losers. Just accept the BS, do whatever it takes to pass (including cheating, if it's the norm) and enjoy learning new stuff.
From my personal experience I can tell you that this is true. To make a long story short, I dropped out of high school on my fourth semester. I stopped putting in the effort to pass the subjects, especially Visual Basic 6 (I hate Microsoft products) and because of this I only approved two subjects. My classmate (another slacker) and I, had to do a project with all the stuff we where supposed to know about VB6, but we didn't even had a fscking clue. That's how much we slacked during classes, I even skipped some. We started doing the project four days before the due date, we where reading and downloading documentation like mad but yet we couldn't manage to finish on time, a day before the due date me and my classmate where discussing the possibility of cheating by buying the project from some older guys that knew VB6. I felt that it was to much fscking trouble and bailed out. Even if we got the project in, we would've had to approve a lot of global exams since could only advance to the next grade with three failed subjects. No joke, I became a NEET for two years in which I spent most of my time reading about Linux and related topics. Just until recently I started going to night school (still not working) to make up for the lost time. If I had worked hard in the beginning or cheated and studied like mad at the end of that semester, I wouldn't be telling this story. I don't regret those two years in which I spent most of my time reading, I regret those two years in which I postponed the BS.
I went through the same decision 6 months ago. We had a company going and were ready to raise capital and drop college, but we decided otherwise. I am also 23, self-taught and I never liked college. Ever since I was allowed to surf the internet by myself (at 9, in a dial-up connection), my curiosity and patience permitted me to absorb a lot of knowledge "ahead of time". Because of that, college was boring for the most part of it, even more boring when I got into entrepreneurship and decided to start my first company with a friend. The feeling of actually creating stuff and seeing people test what we built and give feedback was amazing, even though most of the feedback was negative. Before deciding to either drop college or close the company, we talked to many entrepreneurs, angels and people we trusted.
Our decision to close it, instead of dropping, basically came down to a few points. We didn’t have a working MVP that tested our idea, what we had was a solid beta team and a half finished MVP, so dropping out of college would mean that I would not have a solid foundation that would allow me to get back on my feet, in case things went wrong (I live in Brazil, entrepreneurship and failing aren’t seen as good things here; on average, degrees are valued much more than the life experience of failing a company). I also ended up having my doubts if we actually needed to drop out of college to build this, or if I was just trying to escape the frustration of going to classes that mostly wasted my time.
So, I ask you two things: Are you sure you are not thinking of dropping college as a way of dealing with the frustration you (might) feel when going to it? Don’t you think you can use the college as a sandbox for testing ideas and working on interesting projects without having to deal with a) social pressure, b) financial health and c) failing consequences? If you aren’t sure, don’t drop it. If you think the frustration of going to some classes, is a lower cost than a), b) and c), don’t drop it. I would also suggest you use the social experience of going to a college in order to meet other people like-minded, possibly even a cofounder for future projects, because the friends I made through college are the ones I am taking with me for the rest of my life and certainly the most valuable thing I am taking out of college with me.
Our decision to close it, instead of dropping, basically came down to a few points. We didn’t have a working MVP that tested our idea, what we had was a solid beta team and a half finished MVP, so dropping out of college would mean that I would not have a solid foundation that would allow me to get back on my feet, in case things went wrong (I live in Brazil, entrepreneurship and failing aren’t seen as good things here; on average, degrees are valued much more than the life experience of failing a company). I also ended up having my doubts if we actually needed to drop out of college to build this, or if I was just trying to escape the frustration of going to classes that mostly wasted my time.
So, I ask you two things: Are you sure you are not thinking of dropping college as a way of dealing with the frustration you (might) feel when going to it? Don’t you think you can use the college as a sandbox for testing ideas and working on interesting projects without having to deal with a) social pressure, b) financial health and c) failing consequences? If you aren’t sure, don’t drop it. If you think the frustration of going to some classes, is a lower cost than a), b) and c), don’t drop it. I would also suggest you use the social experience of going to a college in order to meet other people like-minded, possibly even a cofounder for future projects, because the friends I made through college are the ones I am taking with me for the rest of my life and certainly the most valuable thing I am taking out of college with me.
As someone who's in a similar position (I did drop out of college, partly to build a company, but partly because it didn't make sense at the time):
1. Your idea sucks, so don't drop out of school to start it. You need to find a better idea.
2. See if you can take a leave of absence, and also see how long your credits are good for. For example, my uni's credits are good for 11 years; if I twiddled my thumbs for 10 years, then came back, I would (presumably) have lost nothing.
In the final analysis, you should drop out of college for reasons that have nothing to do with the college itself. In other words, drop out because it won't help you get to where you want to go, or because you have other things to do. But don't drop out simply because it's boring or because you want to stick it to the man. Once/if you drop out, you'll realize that.. no one really cares either way.
Likewise, don't stay in school because it seems like the safe thing to do. Life isn't a checklist, and you need to have a good reason for whatever you're doing with your time. The idea of "using a degree as a backup plan" is no different than "finishing a degree in the future as a backup plan", as far as I'm concerned.
Being an anti-college revolutionary is all great when you're in school, but once you leave your school's ecosystem, you'll realize that it's exactly that - a small part of the world. (this is all from personal experience.)
1. Your idea sucks, so don't drop out of school to start it. You need to find a better idea.
2. See if you can take a leave of absence, and also see how long your credits are good for. For example, my uni's credits are good for 11 years; if I twiddled my thumbs for 10 years, then came back, I would (presumably) have lost nothing.
In the final analysis, you should drop out of college for reasons that have nothing to do with the college itself. In other words, drop out because it won't help you get to where you want to go, or because you have other things to do. But don't drop out simply because it's boring or because you want to stick it to the man. Once/if you drop out, you'll realize that.. no one really cares either way.
Likewise, don't stay in school because it seems like the safe thing to do. Life isn't a checklist, and you need to have a good reason for whatever you're doing with your time. The idea of "using a degree as a backup plan" is no different than "finishing a degree in the future as a backup plan", as far as I'm concerned.
Being an anti-college revolutionary is all great when you're in school, but once you leave your school's ecosystem, you'll realize that it's exactly that - a small part of the world. (this is all from personal experience.)
Really appreciate your input, but your statement about my idea is rather brusque. You don't have a clue what my idea is about. It is possible to take a leave of absence at my university, which I'm considering. I might even go to night school getting a bachelor's degree while working on my startup during the day.
Sorry, that was a poor choice of words, and I apologize. But I still think it's a bad idea, if only because you're going up against multiple billion dollar companies. You're essentially a novice climber who wants his first climb to be Everest.
Business isn't easy; you'll need every advantage you can get. My advice (and what I'm personally doing, after being in almost the same situation as you) is to build a smaller business first, specifically something that does not require a network effect to be useful. In other words, a product that is useful to a single customer without any other users. See stuff by 37signals and most SaaSs in general for examples.
The end point is really that business is hard, and it's infinitely harder when you go after something huge like eBay on your first try. That's not being bold, it's being foolish.
Why not build something smaller to learn more about business, make a good bit of money from that, and then take on eBay? It is quite a bit easier to build a 100k/year company than a 100million/year company. Plus, you'll have money to bootstrap your company.
Business isn't easy; you'll need every advantage you can get. My advice (and what I'm personally doing, after being in almost the same situation as you) is to build a smaller business first, specifically something that does not require a network effect to be useful. In other words, a product that is useful to a single customer without any other users. See stuff by 37signals and most SaaSs in general for examples.
The end point is really that business is hard, and it's infinitely harder when you go after something huge like eBay on your first try. That's not being bold, it's being foolish.
Why not build something smaller to learn more about business, make a good bit of money from that, and then take on eBay? It is quite a bit easier to build a 100k/year company than a 100million/year company. Plus, you'll have money to bootstrap your company.
The "Your idea sucks" comment is very unnecessary and provides no constructive feedback. You have no idea what it actually entails, except for the very general market space it's in.
A better response would be, "I think the e-commerce space is really crowded, so be sure your idea can differentiate and provide more value than other existing options."
A better response would be, "I think the e-commerce space is really crowded, so be sure your idea can differentiate and provide more value than other existing options."
Normally, I'd say it's hard to decide and I would tend to recommend to finish your studies. But in your case it's different: You are studying CS and getting an Software Engineer. You are on a market where the demand is so much higher than the offer, thus there's no need to signal your skills through a degree. Anyway, you'd learn much more and faster when doing a startup. Or in other words: many reference projects and/or a great Github record is more worth than a degree (and most good devs I know havn't a degree).
One thing I'd change: you location, Belgium seems to be nice, but you need lots of peers in physical distance. So change to a city with a vibrant tech community (Berlin).
One thing I'd change: you location, Belgium seems to be nice, but you need lots of peers in physical distance. So change to a city with a vibrant tech community (Berlin).
No, finish your degree while working on your dream. You will gain valuable information along the way, and more importantly form relationships that will help you in your future endeavors.
To be clear, I am of the standpoint that degrees are largely symbolic, but at many times you will be judged on this (Potential Customers, Partners, VCs). It is also reassuring to know you have a fall back plan.
Take the time to get as much out of your education as possible, and along the way meet and build relationships with as many other driven individuals as you can, and I promise you will find your time well spent.
To be clear, I am of the standpoint that degrees are largely symbolic, but at many times you will be judged on this (Potential Customers, Partners, VCs). It is also reassuring to know you have a fall back plan.
Take the time to get as much out of your education as possible, and along the way meet and build relationships with as many other driven individuals as you can, and I promise you will find your time well spent.
Probably not. Is your product near "complete"? If you have not started, work on it in your free time. You should stay in school not because it's a safe decision but because you will learn much more important CS concepts(unless you're a genius genius) and get to network with others. You may get to connect with others like you or any talent coders.
Ask this question once your service is gaining huge audience or attention.
Ask this question once your service is gaining huge audience or attention.
No. Get the degree now while it's relatively easy. The longer you're out of the education system the harder it is to fall back into the student mindset. If you're 'not afraid of working hard', work on your startup while pursuing your degree. As an added benefit, I've got to think that your classes would be a great place to find that co-founder you're missing.
If you're so autodidactic, why are you studying CS in school? Maybe stay in and pick some other major that interests you and you can fall back on. Otherwise if you're doing CS just to learn to program, you can save a lot of money by just googling and doing your own things. Few people who hire you for that type of work will care anyway.
I'm only studying to get a degree. Without a degree, it's hard to find a proper job in Belgium. CS has interested me since I was a teenager, that's why I choose it.
I'm not familiar with Belgium, only the US, but why do you resent the way college teaches?
There is some busywork and some BS up front, but if you suck it up, pay your dues and prove to your professors that you're good (I'm assuming you're good), then it quickly turns into not-BS, provided you're at a decent college.
There is some busywork and some BS up front, but if you suck it up, pay your dues and prove to your professors that you're good (I'm assuming you're good), then it quickly turns into not-BS, provided you're at a decent college.
I can learn things quicker without going to college. College also teaches a lot of things I don't need right now. I'm a strong believer that one should only learn things when they're needed and useful. You're much more focused then, which results in a better learning experience.
If your business is growing too fast for you to have time for anything else, that might be a good reason to take a break from college.
If you're doing badly in your classes, that might be a good reason to revisit your study habits.
If you're doing badly in your classes, that might be a good reason to revisit your study habits.
Per a friend who overheard Steve Blank say this once:
"If you have to ask or second guess, then you already have your answer. You're not ready." (paraphrasing)
"If you have to ask or second guess, then you already have your answer. You're not ready." (paraphrasing)
There's nothing wrong with having doubts. I feel it's actually immature starting a company without considering all the options. You're just being delusional then.
There's a clear difference between carefully considering all the options vs having doubts. No one said anything about not thinking through various options and making intelligent decisions.
That said, I personally don't think there should be any doubts. It's like working with a cofounder. There are a lot of things to consider, potential issues that may arise, but regardless of what happens, doubts should not arise between you two. In the same sense, you carefully weigh your options and only YOU know yourself best. If you have doubts, you aren't ready because jumping on an idea to pursue it full force can take a lot out of you.
You're free to disagree but calling the advice of a long time and successful entrepreneur that many people respect and admire immature is an insult. To which I say believe what you want.
That said, I personally don't think there should be any doubts. It's like working with a cofounder. There are a lot of things to consider, potential issues that may arise, but regardless of what happens, doubts should not arise between you two. In the same sense, you carefully weigh your options and only YOU know yourself best. If you have doubts, you aren't ready because jumping on an idea to pursue it full force can take a lot out of you.
You're free to disagree but calling the advice of a long time and successful entrepreneur that many people respect and admire immature is an insult. To which I say believe what you want.
If you have to ask a bunch of strangers on the Internet, the answer is probably "no". If you ever get to "fuck you, I don't give a damn about your lame, irrelevant opinion. I know what I'm doing and win, lose, or draw, this makes the most sense right here, right now", that's the time to do something "crazy" like that.
You're absolutely right. Sometimes I let myself be carried away by the fears of others.
* 23 years old
* no degree
* studying CS (first year in college)
* knowledge of C/C++, Python & Objective-C
* been repairing computers, cell phones (f.e. iPhone), ... since I was 18 (check my website)
* resentment against the way college teaches
-- My dream --
* building my own startup (eBay competitor)
-- Why can I succeed? --
* autodidact
* not afraid of working hard
* sense for UI/UX design
-- Why can i fail? --
* not being smart enough
* lacking experience
* being good, but nog good enough
* having no co-founder
* living in Belgium (the society in this country focuses on getting a good degree, not building a startup)
* finding no investor(s)
-- What keeps me from pursuing my dream? --
* fear of failure
* becoming poor if the startup fails
* not finding a job due to the lack of a college degree