Tell HN: Some of you are straight up bullies
4 comments
I don't think you are using the word "bully" correctly.
GoDaddy is a powerful and monied entity that has been caught paying money to convince the most powerful and monied entity in the world, the United States Government, to implement a set of rules that would generally make it easier for rich corporations to silence poor critics. The GoDaddy boycotters are not bullying the SOPA supporters.
The GoDaddy boycott does have a certain amount of groupthink and mindless sloganeering in it. Perhaps this is what you mean when you say "bullying".
GoDaddy tried to recruit the largest power in the world to help silence the smallest, and you find lobbying others to boycott them "piling on" ?
You say "GoDaddy is entitled to their opinions" but remember, GoDaddy spent money to make it easy for you to have your opinions removed from the internet. They didn't just "express their opinion" that a corporation should be able to shut down critical sites just for asking, they set about to make it happen. They engaged in no dialog or conversation with you, they just tried to get it done.
GoDaddy is a powerful and monied entity that has been caught paying money to convince the most powerful and monied entity in the world, the United States Government, to implement a set of rules that would generally make it easier for rich corporations to silence poor critics. The GoDaddy boycotters are not bullying the SOPA supporters.
The GoDaddy boycott does have a certain amount of groupthink and mindless sloganeering in it. Perhaps this is what you mean when you say "bullying".
GoDaddy tried to recruit the largest power in the world to help silence the smallest, and you find lobbying others to boycott them "piling on" ?
You say "GoDaddy is entitled to their opinions" but remember, GoDaddy spent money to make it easy for you to have your opinions removed from the internet. They didn't just "express their opinion" that a corporation should be able to shut down critical sites just for asking, they set about to make it happen. They engaged in no dialog or conversation with you, they just tried to get it done.
I agree. The issue I had was many were beginning to take on a mob mentality even after GoDaddy backed off. This isn't about GoDaddy either regardless btw. It was about SOPA. GoDaddy was just an example to purely to point out that by continuing to destroy them even after they've relented, does not help continue making a case against stopping SOPA from being approved.
GoDaddy suffered a market correction as a result of rational actors behaving in their self interest. In this case the self interest was simply economic, but also an issue of freedom.
GoDaddy didn't simply have an opinion, they were acting upon it. Their actions support legislation that limits freedoms, especially free speech, and sets up a dangerous precedent for further limiting freedoms. Any entity that threatens freedoms of the people should expect to be bullied by the people.
Many people at some point in their lives determine that certain things are valuable enough to fight for. For a lot of people, their values were under siege by SOPA and PROTECT-IP.
Bullying is what happens to a kid on a schoolyard who has done absolutely nothing to deserve the harm (usually physical) inflicted upon them. The reaction of people against GoDaddy was self-defense in the interest of self preservation.
GoDaddy didn't simply have an opinion, they were acting upon it. Their actions support legislation that limits freedoms, especially free speech, and sets up a dangerous precedent for further limiting freedoms. Any entity that threatens freedoms of the people should expect to be bullied by the people.
Many people at some point in their lives determine that certain things are valuable enough to fight for. For a lot of people, their values were under siege by SOPA and PROTECT-IP.
Bullying is what happens to a kid on a schoolyard who has done absolutely nothing to deserve the harm (usually physical) inflicted upon them. The reaction of people against GoDaddy was self-defense in the interest of self preservation.
You sound like a very good person who is completely oblivious to all the ways lawmakers and companies fuck us all over. The problem with people like you is that you let feelings and "goodness" get in the way of doing what needs to be done.
We have to be bullies, we have to be aggressive, merciless, unforgiving. Have you seen how companies like Monsanto have hijacked our congress? Make our lawmakers their bitches? How businesses have, over the course of decades, destroyed our towns, freedom, and privacy, in the name of profit.
The way Massey Coal caused deaths of children and contamination of hundreds of streams because they use mountain top removal as a method to mine for coal. They lobby lawmakers to prevent any type of law against it. George Bush signed a law allowing them to actually. Google "mountain top removal" and look at the giant holes they left in West Virginia, then look at the kids going through chemo therapy to fight brain cancer caused by the chemicals in the explosives used for mining.
The way American car companies lobbied congress to prevent higher mileage standards so they profit more without having to innovate. (which ultimately led to them needing a bailout because they couldn't compete with foreign car makers)
The way Car companies bought up and ripped out streetcars and their tracks so more people could buy cars. Now we tax payers are paying billions trying to put them back in to unclog our cities.
The way banks got bailouts then went out, partied, and gave themselves raises and bonuses. (self explanatory)
The way the United States poisoned 10,000 of its own citizens so it can more easily sell prohibition to the public. Yeah, kill people to scare them away from drinking alcohol.
The way oil companies are allowed to have as many oil spill accidents as they want, as long as they pay their
There is NOTHING we will ever do that will ever equal to the bullying that corporations inflict on us for the sake of profit and personal agendas.
These are the lunatics the American public are competing with, with all due respect, grow a pair of fucking balls. Because balls are all we have left.
We have to be bullies, we have to be aggressive, merciless, unforgiving. Have you seen how companies like Monsanto have hijacked our congress? Make our lawmakers their bitches? How businesses have, over the course of decades, destroyed our towns, freedom, and privacy, in the name of profit.
The way Massey Coal caused deaths of children and contamination of hundreds of streams because they use mountain top removal as a method to mine for coal. They lobby lawmakers to prevent any type of law against it. George Bush signed a law allowing them to actually. Google "mountain top removal" and look at the giant holes they left in West Virginia, then look at the kids going through chemo therapy to fight brain cancer caused by the chemicals in the explosives used for mining.
The way American car companies lobbied congress to prevent higher mileage standards so they profit more without having to innovate. (which ultimately led to them needing a bailout because they couldn't compete with foreign car makers)
The way Car companies bought up and ripped out streetcars and their tracks so more people could buy cars. Now we tax payers are paying billions trying to put them back in to unclog our cities.
The way banks got bailouts then went out, partied, and gave themselves raises and bonuses. (self explanatory)
The way the United States poisoned 10,000 of its own citizens so it can more easily sell prohibition to the public. Yeah, kill people to scare them away from drinking alcohol.
The way oil companies are allowed to have as many oil spill accidents as they want, as long as they pay their
There is NOTHING we will ever do that will ever equal to the bullying that corporations inflict on us for the sake of profit and personal agendas.
These are the lunatics the American public are competing with, with all due respect, grow a pair of fucking balls. Because balls are all we have left.
Believe me, I fight for what I believe in. I wouldn't have the galls to post this knowing there might be some backlash if I didn't have some balls. Note I'm also doing so under my real name.
I don't disagree with the shadiness that various companies have chose to carried themselves by. And there certainly a lot of reasons to be angry and upset. I agree with you that there are a lot of fucked up shit going on out there. But you're now mixing two totally separate arguments and taking advantage of the situation to tear GoDaddy a new asshole in the process.
I am not defending them (this isn't about them specifically either) nor do I honestly give a shit about their business. My original intent with this post stands. The goal and sole focus was and still should be to educate others on SOPA, get the word out, and oppose it from happening. Not take out everyone/company along the way. That's unnecessary and irrelevant collateral damage coupled with a lot of anger from a multitude of things combined.
I don't disagree with the shadiness that various companies have chose to carried themselves by. And there certainly a lot of reasons to be angry and upset. I agree with you that there are a lot of fucked up shit going on out there. But you're now mixing two totally separate arguments and taking advantage of the situation to tear GoDaddy a new asshole in the process.
I am not defending them (this isn't about them specifically either) nor do I honestly give a shit about their business. My original intent with this post stands. The goal and sole focus was and still should be to educate others on SOPA, get the word out, and oppose it from happening. Not take out everyone/company along the way. That's unnecessary and irrelevant collateral damage coupled with a lot of anger from a multitude of things combined.
I see. Sorry I got carried away then.
The problem with the public is that they don't want to be educated. Scientists and logicians have tried for decades to educate the public and they still deny evolution and global climate change. The public can only be scared shitless into things or "infotained" by public displays of drama and shock. That's how congress get us into wars and pointless "security theater" strip searches and hand swabs at the airport.
Which do you think would catch the -> average <- person's attention: (note: the average YouTube kitten watching, tv couch potato, "who's Carl Segan?", "I didn't come from no monkey", person)
1) Congress is voting on a law called SOPA which censors the US internet and can completely destroy free speech, fair use content, youtube, and fair file sharing.
2) Did you hear what happened to Godaddy? They supported some SOPA law on censoring the internet and got their ass beat. Now they're on damage control, etc....
The problem with the public is that they don't want to be educated. Scientists and logicians have tried for decades to educate the public and they still deny evolution and global climate change. The public can only be scared shitless into things or "infotained" by public displays of drama and shock. That's how congress get us into wars and pointless "security theater" strip searches and hand swabs at the airport.
Which do you think would catch the -> average <- person's attention: (note: the average YouTube kitten watching, tv couch potato, "who's Carl Segan?", "I didn't come from no monkey", person)
1) Congress is voting on a law called SOPA which censors the US internet and can completely destroy free speech, fair use content, youtube, and fair file sharing.
2) Did you hear what happened to Godaddy? They supported some SOPA law on censoring the internet and got their ass beat. Now they're on damage control, etc....
Agreed.
"""However, that's exactly seems to be the case with some people here. I am reading about how people want to get other companies to drop GoDaddy to prove a point. And what point is that? That if other people/companies have a different opinion than yours, that they're automatically the bad guy and you need to do everything you can to beat them to a pulp?"""
Supporting SOPA is not "having an opinion" --in their own private home--, it's actively supporting and helping a legislation pass. Those kinds of opinions have consequences. GoDaddy's opinion (and lobbying) could have the consequence of a law passed. Why shouldn't it also have the consequence of them losing business?
So you are wrong here. This is not about "freedom of opinion", it's about political action, and fighting against society being forced into laws one does not approve. Not paying a company and suggesting others to not pay them either, is not bullying. It's exactly like suggesting people don't vote for a party you don't agree with.
Supporting SOPA is not "having an opinion" --in their own private home--, it's actively supporting and helping a legislation pass. Those kinds of opinions have consequences. GoDaddy's opinion (and lobbying) could have the consequence of a law passed. Why shouldn't it also have the consequence of them losing business?
So you are wrong here. This is not about "freedom of opinion", it's about political action, and fighting against society being forced into laws one does not approve. Not paying a company and suggesting others to not pay them either, is not bullying. It's exactly like suggesting people don't vote for a party you don't agree with.
Then how do you explain the fact that after GoDaddy change their stance to oppose SOPA, people were still going on with the "who cares, lets get others to continue dropping them" (paraphrasing). Believe it or not, that attitude is still going on.
I believe that the moment they admit and change their stance, continuing to do so became a moot point. As I said, I'm still going to move my business off GoDaddy, but that's a personal choice at this point. Now that they're not opposing SOPA anymore (supposedly), why are people still trying to rally large companies to quit using GoDaddy? Clearly there is a problem here in my opinion.
EDIT: Clearly I'm not the only one who've observed this behavior, see: http://fredandrandall.com/blog/2011/12/23/why-im-sticking-wi... (from HN)
I believe that the moment they admit and change their stance, continuing to do so became a moot point. As I said, I'm still going to move my business off GoDaddy, but that's a personal choice at this point. Now that they're not opposing SOPA anymore (supposedly), why are people still trying to rally large companies to quit using GoDaddy? Clearly there is a problem here in my opinion.
EDIT: Clearly I'm not the only one who've observed this behavior, see: http://fredandrandall.com/blog/2011/12/23/why-im-sticking-wi... (from HN)
Because, in their own words, they worked closely with legislators to craft the bill. Their damage control is just that; their flip-flop is just due to the pressure and not the result of some revelation on their part.
There's a difference between piling on someone after they admit they're wrong, and discontinuing business with a company after they are forced to recant a very unpopular statement. GoDaddy does not deserve your empathy. They are a company who worked hard to get this legislation passed. They are doing what is in their financial best interest now, not acting according to conscience.
There's a difference between piling on someone after they admit they're wrong, and discontinuing business with a company after they are forced to recant a very unpopular statement. GoDaddy does not deserve your empathy. They are a company who worked hard to get this legislation passed. They are doing what is in their financial best interest now, not acting according to conscience.
"""Then how do you explain the fact that after GoDaddy change their stance to oppose SOPA, people were still going on with the "who cares, lets get others to continue dropping them" (paraphrasing). Believe it or not, that attitude is still going on."""
Not only I believe, I also approve it.
GoDaddy's hypocritical turn-around means nothing, it's just damage control. The idea is not to "bully them into behavin'", it's to not support a company that doesn't respect our internet rights, period.
They should not have supported SOPA in the first place --especially given that they are a tech company.
Not only I believe, I also approve it.
GoDaddy's hypocritical turn-around means nothing, it's just damage control. The idea is not to "bully them into behavin'", it's to not support a company that doesn't respect our internet rights, period.
They should not have supported SOPA in the first place --especially given that they are a tech company.
We'll have to agree to disagree here to an extent. As I've said, there comes a point when all you're doing now is trying to hurt them. Whether you realize it or not, or whether you can acknowledge it or not, that's blatant bullying.
I whole-heartedly agree with the premise of not supporting GoDaddy on the premise you're arguing about. Like I said earlier, I'm moving my business elsewhere either way regardless of the fact that they've let up. But now that they've let up, blatantly rallying against them even more to damage their company or going out of your way to continue getting other companies to continue moving off of them when the original goal was to focus on SOPA itself (of which seemed accomplish as far as GoDaddy is concerned) is just personal vendetta.
As I said in my original post above, remember what you're fighting for. Continuing to destroy GoDaddy isn't going to help push the fight against SOPA any more or less at this point. Now you're just fighting in anger, in personal moral beliefs, etc. I perfectly understand where you're coming from, believe me. Hopefully you see what I'm trying to say as well.
I whole-heartedly agree with the premise of not supporting GoDaddy on the premise you're arguing about. Like I said earlier, I'm moving my business elsewhere either way regardless of the fact that they've let up. But now that they've let up, blatantly rallying against them even more to damage their company or going out of your way to continue getting other companies to continue moving off of them when the original goal was to focus on SOPA itself (of which seemed accomplish as far as GoDaddy is concerned) is just personal vendetta.
As I said in my original post above, remember what you're fighting for. Continuing to destroy GoDaddy isn't going to help push the fight against SOPA any more or less at this point. Now you're just fighting in anger, in personal moral beliefs, etc. I perfectly understand where you're coming from, believe me. Hopefully you see what I'm trying to say as well.
In the larger picture, other future companies will reflect on GoDaddy actions, if the pressure was pulled off now the lesson would be, hey you can support some pretty crappy anti-consumer stuff and then just say hey I am sorry. Now in GoDaddy's case it's not like they are just passer-by supporters of this bill, they are culpable in the very creation of it and to assume that they have now seen the light due to financial punishment, would be to say the least giving them a lot of credit.
Far worse it would change the very lesson of the historical context of what is now playing out. You see GoDaddy stepped across the line into politics and corruption and paid to play, when one starts dealing with politics it is no longer a business transaction, they are bartering in peoples rights. Doing so can lead to war, which what GoDaddy is dealing with is very akin to, and rightfully so, a business deal is one thing, but when you get on the wrong side of peoples rights, you should expect that those people are going to go to war. They have every right to do so, because a piece of their freedom is at stake. It's not about "I'm sorry's" at that point, the stakes are much higher, an example must be set so that future actors learn that rights are not tools for barter.
If GoDaddy does not like that they have fired the first shot, then they should have kept to domains and steered clear of brokering peoples rights for profit. GoDaddy stepped out of the lines of business and tried to mandate consumers actions via legislation, no one should expect that they be treated like a business when they did so, they no loner are because they are not acting like one, a better definition for them would be the enemy.
In saying that, I do want to thank you, mob rule and justice must be checked, we must have decent, so that people stop to think about their actions, in my opinion, they are justified in this case, but we should always take time to reflect. For me personally, I wrote GoDaddy an email asking how they plan to financially oppose the legislation now that they are sorry. If I am satisfied with the answer I will remain, because I think it will make for even greater historical context, if they have to financially fight the very legislation that they helped craft. That lesson will resound as an example, for a very long time and as far as my ethics are concerned it is a narrative that I can support as a cautionary tale to future business leaders.
Far worse it would change the very lesson of the historical context of what is now playing out. You see GoDaddy stepped across the line into politics and corruption and paid to play, when one starts dealing with politics it is no longer a business transaction, they are bartering in peoples rights. Doing so can lead to war, which what GoDaddy is dealing with is very akin to, and rightfully so, a business deal is one thing, but when you get on the wrong side of peoples rights, you should expect that those people are going to go to war. They have every right to do so, because a piece of their freedom is at stake. It's not about "I'm sorry's" at that point, the stakes are much higher, an example must be set so that future actors learn that rights are not tools for barter.
If GoDaddy does not like that they have fired the first shot, then they should have kept to domains and steered clear of brokering peoples rights for profit. GoDaddy stepped out of the lines of business and tried to mandate consumers actions via legislation, no one should expect that they be treated like a business when they did so, they no loner are because they are not acting like one, a better definition for them would be the enemy.
In saying that, I do want to thank you, mob rule and justice must be checked, we must have decent, so that people stop to think about their actions, in my opinion, they are justified in this case, but we should always take time to reflect. For me personally, I wrote GoDaddy an email asking how they plan to financially oppose the legislation now that they are sorry. If I am satisfied with the answer I will remain, because I think it will make for even greater historical context, if they have to financially fight the very legislation that they helped craft. That lesson will resound as an example, for a very long time and as far as my ethics are concerned it is a narrative that I can support as a cautionary tale to future business leaders.
I hate replying to my own post, but it's too late to edit my original post, so here is the response I received from them:
Fighting online piracy is of the utmost importance, which is why Go Daddy has been working to help craft revisions to this legislation - but we can clearly do better," Warren Adelman, Go Daddy's newly appointed CEO, said. "It's very important that all Internet stakeholders work together on this. Getting it right is worth the wait. Go Daddy will support it when and if the Internet community supports it.
I am now in the process of transferring out my domains, the fact that they are revising the legislation and not opposing any regulations signals to me that they have indeed not learned there lesson and are making PR maneuvers to do damage control. The fact that they would even entertain working further with a regulation framework is indicative of their mentality on the matter. Unfortunately they are probably too far invested to change direction and become a champion for their customers, as such I am left with little choice.
Fighting online piracy is of the utmost importance, which is why Go Daddy has been working to help craft revisions to this legislation - but we can clearly do better," Warren Adelman, Go Daddy's newly appointed CEO, said. "It's very important that all Internet stakeholders work together on this. Getting it right is worth the wait. Go Daddy will support it when and if the Internet community supports it.
I am now in the process of transferring out my domains, the fact that they are revising the legislation and not opposing any regulations signals to me that they have indeed not learned there lesson and are making PR maneuvers to do damage control. The fact that they would even entertain working further with a regulation framework is indicative of their mentality on the matter. Unfortunately they are probably too far invested to change direction and become a champion for their customers, as such I am left with little choice.
I was reading somewhere earlier today those exact same words as a statement publicly made so if you got that in an email, its copy/paste BS.
Agreed and great idea. I would love to know the answer if they bother to respond and hopefully it's not some generic response from just any employee.
What a childish attitude. If I were Godaddy, I would continue to push legislation through if only to spite people like you.
Do you see where angry mob tactics get us?
Do you see where angry mob tactics get us?
"""What a childish attitude. If I were Godaddy, I would continue to push legislation through if only to spite people like you."""
If you would "continue to push such legislation" to "spite" those people (i.e your customers) -- then:
a) you know nothing about business. b) you are even more childish than those protesting.
oh, and:
c) you'd get bankrupt because of people moving their domains elsewhere (especially geeks and alpha-geeks suggesting it to others).
If you would "continue to push such legislation" to "spite" those people (i.e your customers) -- then:
a) you know nothing about business. b) you are even more childish than those protesting.
oh, and:
c) you'd get bankrupt because of people moving their domains elsewhere (especially geeks and alpha-geeks suggesting it to others).
Like many here, I strongly oppose SOPA and believe in freedom of choice, or rather, a free Internet. And I understand that there are many reasons why people would want to move off a service like GoDaddy for their support of SOPA that has come out in recent days. Of course there are a lot of other reasons people have for not wanting to stay with GoDaddy such as poor service, the elephant killing, etc... and this simply became the last straw for a lot of people. Whatever the reason, I get it. You want to take a stance and not do business with them, partly due to a difference in beliefs, and that's okay. For what its worth, I'm moving my business off GoDaddy as well.
Having said that, what I am NOT okay with is how many people have become bullies as a result of this. You may not like the fact that they are supporting SOPA (or were) but that doesn't mean you have to be an ass about it. In my personal opinion, the real objective was always to help educate others on the potential harm SOPA represents, and help spread the word about it so that others can understand and make a choice, and hopefully do the right thing in opposing it. It was never about personal attacks against GoDaddy. Maybe I'm alone in this thinking but not doing business with them was more due to mal-alignment in personal beliefs than it was to screw them over.
However, that's exactly seems to be the case with some people here. I am reading about how people want to get other companies to drop GoDaddy to prove a point. And what point is that? That if other people/companies have a different opinion than yours, that they're automatically the bad guy and you need to do everything you can to beat them to a pulp? I may not like SOPA and I may disagree with GoDaddy, but I can at the very least respect other people's opinion (including companies). I'm glad that a lot of people are standing up for their beliefs and moving their business away from GoDaddy, which is a perfectly fine personal choice. But when it all of a sudden sounds like that became the objective, to simply pile on and get everyone to drop them, and then try to recruit other large companies to do the same or risk your wrath, you lose sight of the real goal. Now you're just attacking everyone who doesn't share your belief. I like to believe we're all adults here and we can act with class rather than like playground kids about it.
Maybe you don't like their service. Maybe you hate them for various reasons outside of just SOPA. Maybe there are a bunch of other reasons I can't think of. Regardless, GoDaddy is entitled to their opinions even if that opinion differs from your own and being a BULLY is never acceptable behavior in my opinion to get what you want no matter how strongly you feel.
For the record, I'm glad they reversed their opposition (and hopefully not doing some under handed stuff privately). I'm still going to move my business away simply because I don't believe its truly what they want and they're only doing it because its hitting their business. I'm glad that the word about SOPA is getting out. In no way am I defending GoDaddy in any way, shape, or form. All I'm trying to say is, remember what you're fighting for. Don't act out a mob mentality on the wrong things so much that you lose sight of what is important.