How I Turned Down $300,000 from Microsoft to go Full-Time on GitHub(tom.preston-werner.com)
tom.preston-werner.com
How I Turned Down $300,000 from Microsoft to go Full-Time on GitHub
http://tom.preston-werner.com/2008/10/18/how-i-turned-down-300k.html
70 comments
To put things in perspective, Microsoft also paid Jerry Seinfeld something like a million dollars a minute for his on-screen time, or $183,000 a second. $300,000 over three years (almost 95 million seconds) works out to be 1.73162648 nano-jerries. Nice to know what you're worth.
Good point, but isn't a million dollars a minute more like $16,000 a second, not $183,000 a second? So he's really worth more like 19 nanojerries. Not nearly as bad as you make it sound. :-)
A nanojerry here, a nanojerry there, pretty soon you're talking about real money.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/170.html
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/170.html
Also, he's counting the on-screen time, not the real time Seinfeld had to give for travel/acting/whatever.
Picasso would say that I'm not counting the decades Jerry spent building himself up to the point where he could earn this payday, nor am I counting the years Tom spent doing the same.
1 minute on screen probably required a lot more than 1 minute of work though.
Films that lasts 2 hours normally take months/years to make.
Films that lasts 2 hours normally take months/years to make.
"We publicly launched the site on April 10th. TechCrunch was not invited."
That one made me laugh, but I liked this one better:
>When I’m old and dying, I plan to look back on my life and say “wow, that was an adventure,” not “wow, I sure felt safe.”
>When I’m old and dying, I plan to look back on my life and say “wow, that was an adventure,” not “wow, I sure felt safe.”
Interesting how apparently adventurous parts of life and safe parts of life are mutually exclusive.
I think the confusion is in the definition of "safe" - when I read "safe", I understand it to mean "will not cause major injury, great financial loss or permanent poverty".
Most people considering a safe vs. adventurous route mistakes this kind of safety with "will not cause any emotional distress". In a modern guy's head, straying from "strictly" safe feels as dangerous as straying from "emotionally safe", probably because our modern society doesn't prepare us to deal with any reasonable amount of pain.
A "physically and financially" safe adventure isn't an oxymoron, even in business. But in most cases, adventure entails a certain amount of distress between the successes. For instance, I fly airplanes for fun. I'm pretty sure this hobby will never hurt me, but it sure as hell doesn't always feel like that.
Most people considering a safe vs. adventurous route mistakes this kind of safety with "will not cause any emotional distress". In a modern guy's head, straying from "strictly" safe feels as dangerous as straying from "emotionally safe", probably because our modern society doesn't prepare us to deal with any reasonable amount of pain.
A "physically and financially" safe adventure isn't an oxymoron, even in business. But in most cases, adventure entails a certain amount of distress between the successes. For instance, I fly airplanes for fun. I'm pretty sure this hobby will never hurt me, but it sure as hell doesn't always feel like that.
Adventure requires exploring the unknown. Thus, you never know whether you will be taking the "safer" path, but that's the fun.
Meh, you're stretching the metaphor. Adventuring "into the unknown" doesn't have to be financially risky - you could explore it at a university or big R&D lab, without much risk of market failure.
[deleted]
Not if you're an entrepreneur.
Forget the exclusivity, what we're talking about is the summum bonum: the ultimate goal according to which values and principles are established.
A person whose summum bonum is maximum comfort and security will have a very different life than if they had instead pursued creativity, justice, progress, etc. above all else.
We're not talking about the abolishment of comfort and security, but rather their subjugation to what is greater.
A person whose summum bonum is maximum comfort and security will have a very different life than if they had instead pursued creativity, justice, progress, etc. above all else.
We're not talking about the abolishment of comfort and security, but rather their subjugation to what is greater.
I don't think anyone said that. But for something to be truly an adventure, safety or a sense of safety, will be compromised at certain points along the way.
This is my favorite line:
If you want a recipe for restless sleep, I can give you one. Add one part “what will my wife think” with 3,000 parts Benjamin Franklin; stir in a “beer anytime you damn well please” and top with a chance at financial independence.
If you want a recipe for restless sleep, I can give you one. Add one part “what will my wife think” with 3,000 parts Benjamin Franklin; stir in a “beer anytime you damn well please” and top with a chance at financial independence.
Considering that you sold Gravatar previously, this was probably less of a difficult decision for you than it would have been for many. For others who are 29, married and thinking of starting a family(not saying that you are), a guaranteed > $600,000 (salary + $300k) over 3 years might not be such a bad thing
Hey, us family men like adventure too! We just can't live in a cardboard box in San Francisco, or pretty much anywhere in California for that matter (my wife was a clarinet major, not a lawyer).
It doesn't take six figures to raise a family, California aside.
It doesn't take six figures to raise a family, California aside.
I don't think he was claiming that it was a bad thing, it just was not the best for him given his inspiration from GitHub.
I liked this story very much. I think the key decision point in the post is exemplary. I took a similar decision 4-5 months ago. I can recognize my thoughts and feelings perfectly.
The moment I took the decision to leave the company, my well paying job as Team Lead for total insecurity, adventure but freedom and fun was a jolt of energy.
An energy that permeates my life to this day. There is no comparison between doing something because you're told to and doing what you love. The act of creation and the sense of freedom are in themselves an incredible reward.
The moment I took the decision to leave the company, my well paying job as Team Lead for total insecurity, adventure but freedom and fun was a jolt of energy.
An energy that permeates my life to this day. There is no comparison between doing something because you're told to and doing what you love. The act of creation and the sense of freedom are in themselves an incredible reward.
Way to go Tom. You and Chris are two of hackers I respect the most on this planet, so I'm sure you guys are going to be ludicrously successful, if you aren't already.
Don't forget your ex-coworker when you guys make it big.
Don't forget your ex-coworker when you guys make it big.
You're the best! Around! Nothing's ever gonna keep you down!
Great story. I appreciated the Karate Kid and Indiana Jones references.
Great story. I appreciated the Karate Kid and Indiana Jones references.
Inspiring stuff, thanks a lot.
I see a lot of this on here and it is understandable given the "startup attitude" that is necessary. But It does kinda bother me that people brag about turning down money.
I get the whole idea behind it. By turning down money you are reaffirming that life isn't about money and sometimes we have to take a little risk to do something that will make us happier yadda yadda yadda.
Just please keep in mind the amount of resources that an amount of money like 300k represents. Many people don't have the opportunity to make an equivalent amount in an entire lifetime of work. If the urge ever arises to be smug about how you turned down $x amount, please keep this in mind. We are a group whose skill set happens to be very valuable because we were born into circumstances that have allowed us to maximize our advantages (time, place, parents). It's humbling when you realize how much luck was involved.
I get the whole idea behind it. By turning down money you are reaffirming that life isn't about money and sometimes we have to take a little risk to do something that will make us happier yadda yadda yadda.
Just please keep in mind the amount of resources that an amount of money like 300k represents. Many people don't have the opportunity to make an equivalent amount in an entire lifetime of work. If the urge ever arises to be smug about how you turned down $x amount, please keep this in mind. We are a group whose skill set happens to be very valuable because we were born into circumstances that have allowed us to maximize our advantages (time, place, parents). It's humbling when you realize how much luck was involved.
The next question: Will they turn down $3 million from an acquirer?
I think thats extremely easy to answer.
If you are willing to turn down a 6 figure salary + 300k, you will not settle for halfish of 3 million with way higher risk. Especially if that buyout forced you to work at a large company too, which he doesn't seem interested in.
If you are willing to turn down a 6 figure salary + 300k, you will not settle for halfish of 3 million with way higher risk. Especially if that buyout forced you to work at a large company too, which he doesn't seem interested in.
I'm not sure that's so clear. Suppose we say $200K is the "6 figure salary." That's getting paid for 6 years of work right now, and even if you have to put in 12 months at the acquirer to fully vest the $1.5mm, that's getting paid $1.7mm for a year of work (reckoning from this point forward).
I'm not saying that's a slam-dunk deal, but it's a far cry better than 1/5th that amount...
I'm not saying that's a slam-dunk deal, but it's a far cry better than 1/5th that amount...
Something tells me they aren't in it for a big pay day.
I meant it sarcastically...
Am I the only person who finds this insane...? Walking away from over a half mil over 3 years! GitHub is cool, but is working at Microsoft for a few years _that_ bad?
Microsoft helped price his skills, and their value will surely not diminish in three years. So, it is more like putting off the opportunity of making $300,000 now by three years. Having accepted the offer now could have made him more risk averse three years down the line (in the face of a more tangible opportunity cost in terms of lost paychecks).
In fact, it is a very rational choice if your window for evaluating expected outcomes is five years or more.
He certainly won't be less in three years.
Tom,
I only know you through your service that has made my transition into the Rails world infinitely easier. I commend you for your efforts and producing a web application that actually has a business model and yet helps the community at the same time. I'm probably going to sign up with your service as soon as my projects jumps into Heroku (they don't use SVN, they use Git).
Tom, you might be one of my new role models, but dude, get a real blog going, I want to subscribe to you!
I only know you through your service that has made my transition into the Rails world infinitely easier. I commend you for your efforts and producing a web application that actually has a business model and yet helps the community at the same time. I'm probably going to sign up with your service as soon as my projects jumps into Heroku (they don't use SVN, they use Git).
Tom, you might be one of my new role models, but dude, get a real blog going, I want to subscribe to you!
Great post. Congrats on a great idea, great execution, a great team. And Good Luck.
The lack of a page footer was very confusing, but great read nonetheless.
Tom, if you read this, think about turning on comments. Would have liked to have given you a nice "Great post, congrats!" on the post directly. :)
Isn't that what comments here at HN are for? =) In all seriousness, from past adventures in blogging, I'm sick of managing a commenting system of my own. I love HN and the people here, so this is the only place I plan to notify when I post. I'm working on a different blogging methodology this time around that I'll talk about it in my next post.
Have you thought about using http://disqus.com ?
I considered Disqus, and will continue to evaluate it, but for now I'm going old-skool and leaving comments off my blog. I'd like to experiment with using HN for comments. Hmm, I wonder if I could hook up a piece of JS that automatically pulls the HN url when I post it here...
On that thread, it'd be a pretty nifty thing to have HN comments & posting directly integrated at the bottom of the blog post.
Something I wished for when disqus first came out...
definitely a nice post to start a new blog.
A true entrepreneur.
Well written article to be sure. However let me say what a lot of folks here I bet are thinking but don't want to actually post: they would give their left-you-know-what for a 300K over three years offer from Microsoft!! I darn sure would, and I am not afraid to admit that! :-)
"they would give their left-you-know-what for a 300K over three years offer from Microsoft"
I am missing something here. 300K over 3 years is 100k /year. Assuming you are drawing a decent salary in the United States this effectively doubles your salary. Would you sell your left-you-know-what for a job that doubles your salary?
Some context: I make over 100K US $ (and that is in India. Expenses are much lower here, than say in Silicon Valley. I have many friends who make similar amounts of money).
I wouldn't automatically accept a job at Microsoft just because they double that amount, especially if the alternative is working on an idea/code base I love full time. I could live on about a 1000 $ after taxes (I am single and have no debt) if I were working on something world changing with brilliant people I respect and can learn from.
I am sure I am missing something. maybe the payout is 300 K US $ / year? (though it doesn't read that way) That is more tempting to be sure. Even for that amount I still wouldn't give my left-you-know-what :-)
I am missing something here. 300K over 3 years is 100k /year. Assuming you are drawing a decent salary in the United States this effectively doubles your salary. Would you sell your left-you-know-what for a job that doubles your salary?
Some context: I make over 100K US $ (and that is in India. Expenses are much lower here, than say in Silicon Valley. I have many friends who make similar amounts of money).
I wouldn't automatically accept a job at Microsoft just because they double that amount, especially if the alternative is working on an idea/code base I love full time. I could live on about a 1000 $ after taxes (I am single and have no debt) if I were working on something world changing with brilliant people I respect and can learn from.
I am sure I am missing something. maybe the payout is 300 K US $ / year? (though it doesn't read that way) That is more tempting to be sure. Even for that amount I still wouldn't give my left-you-know-what :-)
This reminds me of the part in "It's a Wonderful Life" where Mr. Potter offers George Bailey a job.
Anyone remember that?
Anyone remember that?
Great read, but I have to say that I'm disappointed that Tom felt the need to publish actual numbers. There are other folks still working at Powerset/MS who would rather that the details of our offers stay confidential. Very classy, choosing self promotion over the financial privacy of former coworkers.
Why on earth would you think that someone discussing their Retention Bonus would have any relevance on what yours was? Just like there are employees of a company who receive $200K/year and those who receive $50K/year, there are those who receive $300K Retention bonuses and others who receive $20K retention bonuses. Or receive no retention bonus and are put on "Transition Plan" - or hell, are just laid off outright with 2 weeks severance + vacation. (I've always thought that that 160 Hours of vacation everyone in the valley stocks up on is a way of adding 4 weeks of severance as they eventually get laid off)
Well, if you made 50k a year and there was someone in a comparable position bragging about their 200k/yr how would it make you feel? How would your boss take it? How would you deal with the situation if you were the boss?
Companies make offers in confidence for a reason. I'm sure that Tom's business partners wouldn't appreciate him posting about their revenue anywhere public. The same principle applies here.
Companies make offers in confidence for a reason. I'm sure that Tom's business partners wouldn't appreciate him posting about their revenue anywhere public. The same principle applies here.
Truth will set you free, dude. Lack of information is how companies can pay one $50k and another $200k for the same work.
Really? You're going to try, "The truth will set you free?" That's your response?
moon's complaint is that now, there are some awkward positions to deal with at Powerset/MS. Because we were all a very tight knit startup before being acquired, many of us are friends with our supervisors and bosses. Now, we're suddenly faced with the question, "Why did my friend and boss value me at value X and Tom at value Y?" These are guys and gals we've basically lived with for 2-3 years, working feverishly for the shared goal of a game-changing increment to what constitutes search. Everyone played a part, but sometimes it can be painful learning that people may not have regarded your part as much as you did.
What's more, every Powersetter knows some people in the company got The Shaft in terms of retention, for a variety of political and legal reasons. Some of these people chose to stay, some chose to leave. For those who chose to stay, this rubs salt in a wound that's still sore: their baby grew up and didn't treat them as well as the other parents.
Being acquired is both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, it's great because you get a payout. On the other hand, the company becomes something else entirely and it's almost never what you had before the acquisition.
I understand why Tom talked about it (and it is an interesting story), but I understand why moon is upset about it as well. Tom was very fortunate that he had something else to walk away to (and this definitely drove up his retention price). For many Powersetters, it was "Microsoft" or "...?" (this is doubly true for the scientists who were literally redefining the field as they went along). I only wish everyone had as difficult-yet-easy choice as Tom did.
moon's complaint is that now, there are some awkward positions to deal with at Powerset/MS. Because we were all a very tight knit startup before being acquired, many of us are friends with our supervisors and bosses. Now, we're suddenly faced with the question, "Why did my friend and boss value me at value X and Tom at value Y?" These are guys and gals we've basically lived with for 2-3 years, working feverishly for the shared goal of a game-changing increment to what constitutes search. Everyone played a part, but sometimes it can be painful learning that people may not have regarded your part as much as you did.
What's more, every Powersetter knows some people in the company got The Shaft in terms of retention, for a variety of political and legal reasons. Some of these people chose to stay, some chose to leave. For those who chose to stay, this rubs salt in a wound that's still sore: their baby grew up and didn't treat them as well as the other parents.
Being acquired is both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, it's great because you get a payout. On the other hand, the company becomes something else entirely and it's almost never what you had before the acquisition.
I understand why Tom talked about it (and it is an interesting story), but I understand why moon is upset about it as well. Tom was very fortunate that he had something else to walk away to (and this definitely drove up his retention price). For many Powersetters, it was "Microsoft" or "...?" (this is doubly true for the scientists who were literally redefining the field as they went along). I only wish everyone had as difficult-yet-easy choice as Tom did.
'We're suddenly faced with the question, "Why did my friend and boss value me at value X and Tom at value Y?" '
So why did they value you at X and Tom at Y ? If the reasons aren't obvious perhaps your friends were not evaluating people on a rational basis? And if they are (obvious reasons) no real harm done right?
What is the advantage of not facing this question? I would rather know (and learn from it) than not know at all.
"Tom was very fortunate that he had something else to walk away to (and this definitely drove up his retention price)"
I think this is a very interesting take away point - always have something to walk away to.
So why did they value you at X and Tom at Y ? If the reasons aren't obvious perhaps your friends were not evaluating people on a rational basis? And if they are (obvious reasons) no real harm done right?
What is the advantage of not facing this question? I would rather know (and learn from it) than not know at all.
"Tom was very fortunate that he had something else to walk away to (and this definitely drove up his retention price)"
I think this is a very interesting take away point - always have something to walk away to.
> What is the advantage of not facing this question? I would rather know (and learn from it) than not know at all.
So we know the disadvantages: social strife, perhaps feelings of personal inadequacy, friction with your supervisors.
So why then, do I also have to justify the opposing side? Things are difficult enough right now with the integration pains of moving into Microsoft. Let me be the first to tell you it is not easy to go from the frenetic and dedicated full, sustained sprint of a startup like Powerset to the slower, bureaucratic pace of Microsoft.
We all know some people were more valuable than others. But to get the full and absolute dollar-amount measure of it hurts some people's feelings. You can say you'd rather know, but that's you making a decision for yourself. The unfortunate part of Tom's story is that he decided for everyone at the company, and that has some people miffed. You can say it's emotional and irrational, and that's probably true. That doesn't make it less real.
> I think this is a very interesting take away point - always have something to walk away to.
This is absolutely true, and I also drove up my retention price by making it clear I had opportunities to walk away to. The instant I heard about the MS offer process I immediately applied for several jobs. When it came time to listen to Microsoft's offer, I already had two other offers on the table (one from a stealth startup and one from EngineYard), and I made sure my supervisors knew (in general terms) what I was looking at.
So we know the disadvantages: social strife, perhaps feelings of personal inadequacy, friction with your supervisors.
So why then, do I also have to justify the opposing side? Things are difficult enough right now with the integration pains of moving into Microsoft. Let me be the first to tell you it is not easy to go from the frenetic and dedicated full, sustained sprint of a startup like Powerset to the slower, bureaucratic pace of Microsoft.
We all know some people were more valuable than others. But to get the full and absolute dollar-amount measure of it hurts some people's feelings. You can say you'd rather know, but that's you making a decision for yourself. The unfortunate part of Tom's story is that he decided for everyone at the company, and that has some people miffed. You can say it's emotional and irrational, and that's probably true. That doesn't make it less real.
> I think this is a very interesting take away point - always have something to walk away to.
This is absolutely true, and I also drove up my retention price by making it clear I had opportunities to walk away to. The instant I heard about the MS offer process I immediately applied for several jobs. When it came time to listen to Microsoft's offer, I already had two other offers on the table (one from a stealth startup and one from EngineYard), and I made sure my supervisors knew (in general terms) what I was looking at.
Whenever I hear arguments like these one side always sounds like this:
"Oh yesyesyes everything is fine! No need to question anything! Oh no! You're questioning things! THAT'S CREATED A HUGE PROBLEM! Everything was perfect before you revealed... erhm... created, yes you created our problem!"
Despite the delayed expression, those tense situations ALREADY EXISTED! If you're not treating your people fairly , or if your people can't handle knowing someone else is valued more than them... guess what? You already have problems! Sure you can hide from the problems, but when they come to light, don't blame it on the truth. The truth could have helped you avoid these problems, if you made sure everyone was honest and understood things (and could handle the truth!) to begin with. That's how "The truth will set you free."
Despite the delayed expression, those tense situations ALREADY EXISTED! If you're not treating your people fairly , or if your people can't handle knowing someone else is valued more than them... guess what? You already have problems! Sure you can hide from the problems, but when they come to light, don't blame it on the truth. The truth could have helped you avoid these problems, if you made sure everyone was honest and understood things (and could handle the truth!) to begin with. That's how "The truth will set you free."
Look, no one can dispute that some people are more valuable than others. I'm sure you can name someone you know who should be paid more than you for your line of work.
The point is, this can be tough to deal with when nerves are already a little ragged from the non-trivial process of decelerating your life from startup speed to Microsoft speed, and fitting into a new company where your role and plans are far less certain.
The point is, this can be tough to deal with when nerves are already a little ragged from the non-trivial process of decelerating your life from startup speed to Microsoft speed, and fitting into a new company where your role and plans are far less certain.
"Tom was very fortunate that he had something else to walk away to...I only wish everyone had as difficult-yet-easy choice as Tom did."
Don't most people have the same choice, provided that they want it? From reading the account, it didn't sound like Tom had any special advantages other than being willing to take the risk and go for it. HN is packed with ppl who have taken the plunge into the unknown to start something without having any idea how it would turn out. To characterize their difficult decision as being the result of some special advantage that they had seems like an excuse for why some weren't willing to take the same risks.
Don't most people have the same choice, provided that they want it? From reading the account, it didn't sound like Tom had any special advantages other than being willing to take the risk and go for it. HN is packed with ppl who have taken the plunge into the unknown to start something without having any idea how it would turn out. To characterize their difficult decision as being the result of some special advantage that they had seems like an excuse for why some weren't willing to take the same risks.
The difference is that Github was already established and making money when Tom had to make his choice (heck, I was the first paying customer!)
That's a lot less dicey than the leap into the great wide open that is lionized here.
That's a lot less dicey than the leap into the great wide open that is lionized here.
It's in the company's best interest to keep salaries and bonuses secret, not in the employees'.
Get over yourself.
Are you the one that offered him 300k?
I don't git your antagonism toward him.
Seen on /.:
"This is a thread for talking about git, not for being one!"
"This is a thread for talking about git, not for being one!"