Intel expands Oregon Fab building; 18A Node now 2024(chipsandcheese.com)
chipsandcheese.com
Intel expands Oregon Fab building; 18A Node now 2024
https://chipsandcheese.com/2022/04/12/intel-renames-oregon-fab-gordon-moore-park-adds-270k-sq-ft-18a-node-now-2024/
5 comments
It isn’t. TSMC has multiple customers lined up with the volume required to ramp these processes to high volume, Intel only has their own designs and whatever foundry customers willing to be an Intel guinea pig.
TSMC also has extensive experience with these machines compared to Intel.
Pat is just making shit up and hoping their stock price doesn’t crater even more.
TSMC also has extensive experience with these machines compared to Intel.
Pat is just making shit up and hoping their stock price doesn’t crater even more.
It seems appropriate to point out that the article is 4 months old, which makes me wonder why it was posted now.
I would be curious to read the article again in 2025.
I would be curious to read the article again in 2025.
Also depend on the definition of available.. is it hvm ? Fist client ? Which yield / profitability? Which libraries?
They are trying to buy their way into a lead.
We don't know how good Intel 18A is yet. It could be equivalent or only slightly better than TSMC's N3E or further enhancements of TSMC 3N. Keep in mind that the base TSMC N3 node is scheduled for volume production in Q4 2022. So the TSMC is still likely quite ahead.
This is all assuming that everything goes well for Intel. If 18A is simply better than TSMC N3E, then TSMC won't have anything to compete until 2025 - 2026 when they release N2.
For TSMC, they have real paying customers that need to plan years ahead so all their date estimates are very conservative. For Intel, they're desperately trying to catch up so they're much more aggressive in their estimates.
According to Anandtech, TSMC's N2 could come in 2025 if things go well, which is roughly the same as 18A. So basically, if things go PERFECTLY for Intel, they'd be in the lead for a few quarters - not 2 years like you said.
We don't know how good Intel 18A is yet. It could be equivalent or only slightly better than TSMC's N3E or further enhancements of TSMC 3N. Keep in mind that the base TSMC N3 node is scheduled for volume production in Q4 2022. So the TSMC is still likely quite ahead.
This is all assuming that everything goes well for Intel. If 18A is simply better than TSMC N3E, then TSMC won't have anything to compete until 2025 - 2026 when they release N2.
For TSMC, they have real paying customers that need to plan years ahead so all their date estimates are very conservative. For Intel, they're desperately trying to catch up so they're much more aggressive in their estimates.
According to Anandtech, TSMC's N2 could come in 2025 if things go well, which is roughly the same as 18A. So basically, if things go PERFECTLY for Intel, they'd be in the lead for a few quarters - not 2 years like you said.
It can happen as these things are mostly about money. They stopped aggressive investing in certain areas to save money and had a lot of stellar quarters in succession.
Even TSMC expects Intel to get back on track in a few years because, again, they started investing again. Please note Intel is about to get huge subsidies from the US (~50b) and EU (~20b) real soon. It's free money for their precious fabs and R&D. I am very much against the EU giving them anything but a kick in the nuts but oh well, gotta keep the US and Israel happy
Even TSMC expects Intel to get back on track in a few years because, again, they started investing again. Please note Intel is about to get huge subsidies from the US (~50b) and EU (~20b) real soon. It's free money for their precious fabs and R&D. I am very much against the EU giving them anything but a kick in the nuts but oh well, gotta keep the US and Israel happy
Intel is going to use that money to spend on buybacks and dividends.
I'm 100% against tax payer funded chip fabs. It's just a handout to huge corporations.
Already happening: https://semianalysis.substack.com/p/intel-cuts-fab-buildout-...
Also, look for huge executive bonuses in the near future.
I'm 100% against tax payer funded chip fabs. It's just a handout to huge corporations.
Already happening: https://semianalysis.substack.com/p/intel-cuts-fab-buildout-...
Also, look for huge executive bonuses in the near future.
> Intel, who hasn’t shipped anything using EUVL, plans to be two years ahead of TSMC, within two years.
Intel will be the first customer of ASML's post/next-gen EUVL systems:
* https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/2022/intel-and-a...
* https://seekingalpha.com/article/4496925-asml-fuelling-intel...
Intel will be the first customer of ASML's post/next-gen EUVL systems:
* https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/2022/intel-and-a...
* https://seekingalpha.com/article/4496925-asml-fuelling-intel...
And after two months more high na will be sent to tsmc , one machine is just a testing machine , for production many are needed this is just a pr stunt
No doubt related to the CHIPS act, named after a TV show about motorcycle cops.
https://www.commerce.senate.gov/services/files/1201E1CA-73CB...
Some interesting things in there ($50 million for artificial photosynthesis, what do they know). Plus lots more than that for nuclear. Don't know how much, they purposely broke it into lots of smaller pieces in lots of different paragraphs, like they always do.
All in all a good bill, even though it's textbook business as usual.
https://www.commerce.senate.gov/services/files/1201E1CA-73CB...
Some interesting things in there ($50 million for artificial photosynthesis, what do they know). Plus lots more than that for nuclear. Don't know how much, they purposely broke it into lots of smaller pieces in lots of different paragraphs, like they always do.
All in all a good bill, even though it's textbook business as usual.
Does anyone know when Intel plans to be competitive with TSMC and how the nodes 18A and N3, and possibly N3E compare?
EDIT: okay so if Intel get 18A done in 2024 that is equivalent to N2 which has recently slipped to 2025/2026.
I say equivalent but as we all know the real feature density is what matters and I’d love if someone had some expected comparisons on this.
EDIT: okay so if Intel get 18A done in 2024 that is equivalent to N2 which has recently slipped to 2025/2026.
I say equivalent but as we all know the real feature density is what matters and I’d love if someone had some expected comparisons on this.
At least in theory both 20A and 18A are significantly superior to what TSMC has planned for its initial N2 node. Backside power delivery is the largest single factor but Intel will also likely have a density advantage on top of that. TSMC's N2 is a very conservative node.
I don't think so.
Intel's roadmap is Intel 4 (TSMC N5P) --> 20A (TSMC N3) --> 18A (TSMC N3E)
Intel's roadmap is Intel 4 (TSMC N5P) --> 20A (TSMC N3) --> 18A (TSMC N3E)
Um, can we just talk about feature density… as I understand it backside power is a huge breakthrough and Intel will probably be a year before TSMC get to similar feature size with technology that is much more uncertain.
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Nanometer process indicators long ago became more marketing than reality. I was hoping (irrationally, it seems) that when we got down past integer nm readings we’d just let the terminology float, and go to version numbers or something.
Alas, the false geometries march on down to the next unit.
Alas, the false geometries march on down to the next unit.
Let's be real: half of the drivers in computer tech involve numbers that have dubious isolated value: 144hz monitors; gigahertz processors; number of cores; and now process scales.
Once the first few cycles hook into a number it becomes a marketing gimic to sell next year's version.
Once the first few cycles hook into a number it becomes a marketing gimic to sell next year's version.
18A ? Where is the promised 5nm ? Shame on you, Intel
Intel, who hasn’t shipped anything using EUVL, plans to be two years ahead of TSMC, within two years.
How is that realistic?