Would you hire this developer?(fromdelhi.com)
fromdelhi.com
Would you hire this developer?
http://www.fromdelhi.com/2008/09/30/would-you-hire-this-ruby-on-rails-developer/
11 comments
What part of Canada are you in?
In Montreal, many companies routinely ask if a developer has open source projects, or code samples.
If a company doesn't do this they are hiring based on resume and interview only, rather than seeing actual code.
In Montreal, many companies routinely ask if a developer has open source projects, or code samples.
If a company doesn't do this they are hiring based on resume and interview only, rather than seeing actual code.
> or code samples
That's exactly my point. No one here (at least in my experience) focuses on open source contributions per se. The end goal generally is to look at some code that a candidate have written, not necessarily the open source one.
Of course there are exceptions. For certain positions you will get a big bonus for any contributions to a specific high-profile open source project. But this has less to do with a code you wrote and more with domain knowledge you picked up along the way.
That's exactly my point. No one here (at least in my experience) focuses on open source contributions per se. The end goal generally is to look at some code that a candidate have written, not necessarily the open source one.
Of course there are exceptions. For certain positions you will get a big bonus for any contributions to a specific high-profile open source project. But this has less to do with a code you wrote and more with domain knowledge you picked up along the way.
I valued open source contributions highly when I was interviewing candidates: it demonstrates that you're someone who is passionate about programming and enjoys building things in your free time. That's exactly the sort of candidate that I think a lot of startups ought to be looking to hire.
But I think the question of open source contribution is completely different from "show us some code." The latter is intended to get a look at some of the actual work you've produced; the former is just another part of your work experience, formal or informal.
But I think the question of open source contribution is completely different from "show us some code." The latter is intended to get a look at some of the actual work you've produced; the former is just another part of your work experience, formal or informal.
Maybe something's lost in translation there, but I can't believe the attitude of some people applying for jobs these days.
I mean, you need to convince the person that is reviewing your application that you are somehow extra special. I find it hard to understand how you'll do that by being arrogant and rude.
I mean, you need to convince the person that is reviewing your application that you are somehow extra special. I find it hard to understand how you'll do that by being arrogant and rude.
I've noticed this in not only my current project but previous projects that I've worked on. When we're looking for someone to help do some specific programming tasks we tend to have a problem with people not really being polite in their applications. They treat it as though they did it as more of an afterthought. I don't seem to see this problem in artistic positions...
There are tons of developers in India, check this out:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=programming
The problem is for many, its a job, just like working at McDonalds — they aren't like us, they don't go home and work on open source projects and the like.
Also, with the mass of people doing it, especially those with little passion for the industry, they sometimes don't take care when it comes to security, etc..
Now thats not to say all developers from India are bad programmers, I've worked with quite a few code ninjas...you've just got to be careful!
http://www.google.com/trends?q=programming
The problem is for many, its a job, just like working at McDonalds — they aren't like us, they don't go home and work on open source projects and the like.
Also, with the mass of people doing it, especially those with little passion for the industry, they sometimes don't take care when it comes to security, etc..
Now thats not to say all developers from India are bad programmers, I've worked with quite a few code ninjas...you've just got to be careful!
The languages section from Google trends for the query "programming"
1. Tagalog
2. English
3. Russian
Under most circumstances I would not and have not hired any programmer who could not provide some sort of demonstration program with a clean source and stable compile (depending on the language).
No -- but not because the developer didn't contribute to an open source project.
Communication skills are important in development, especially when you're working on a team and for someone else. The cover letter / intro email is the first test in the hiring process. Even if English is not your first language, you should be able to effectively introduce yourself, your skill set, your experience, and your interest in the position -- plus answer any other questions in the job posting.
This candidate failed the very first test. The "delete" key -- or, if the hiring manager is super nice, the "no thanks, good luck" reply -- should have been used immediately.
Communication skills are important in development, especially when you're working on a team and for someone else. The cover letter / intro email is the first test in the hiring process. Even if English is not your first language, you should be able to effectively introduce yourself, your skill set, your experience, and your interest in the position -- plus answer any other questions in the job posting.
This candidate failed the very first test. The "delete" key -- or, if the hiring manager is super nice, the "no thanks, good luck" reply -- should have been used immediately.
"We only work with devlopers who are willing to donate 20000$ to charity"????
$20k? charity?
I have projects with 20-100 LOC up on github, for my own convenience. It costs me nothing to make these public if I can't sell them - that's not charity.
I have projects with 20-100 LOC up on github, for my own convenience. It costs me nothing to make these public if I can't sell them - that's not charity.
Your time costs something.
Not when I'm at home. :)
I'm not some piece of machinery that can work 24/7 so there are certain externalities that don't quite match up to accounting. Goodwill perhaps?
I get paid a certain salary whether I show up for 30 or 60 hours. It doesn't matter so long as the work gets done. If you're a contractor, do you take your time while your asleep and deduct it as a business cost?
I'm not some piece of machinery that can work 24/7 so there are certain externalities that don't quite match up to accounting. Goodwill perhaps?
I get paid a certain salary whether I show up for 30 or 60 hours. It doesn't matter so long as the work gets done. If you're a contractor, do you take your time while your asleep and deduct it as a business cost?
If you contribute to Open Source Software, you probably do it in a state in which you would have been able to work instead.
Even if you are at home, your time costs money. Opportunity costs.
Even if you are at home, your time costs money. Opportunity costs.
Historically, I've only ever hired developers I've found through their contributions to Open Source software...but I've always built Open Source software, predominantly, so I wouldn't know how to select developers otherwise. But, it pretty much rules out the process of weeding through dozens of pointless applications like this, since I usually approach the developers I want to hire.
honestly I wouldn't hire anyone that can't take the time to spell out "you"
> honestly I wouldn't hire anyone that can't take the time to spell out "you"
How about people who don't capitalize first letter in the sentence and don't put a dot at the end ? :)
How about people who don't capitalize first letter in the sentence and don't put a dot at the end ? :)
One person is applying for a job, the other is writing on a social news site. Yeah those are the same.
Of course they are not. That's why there's a :) at the end.
touche
Zing!
I wonder if it is just some regional thing they accept there. I dunno...
I would have ignored the application when I saw the first email. 1 year experience + no English is a bad combination.
+ lack of open source and 1 year, tells me that this is someone who just picked up a book and hasn't really done anything yet
+ lack of open source and 1 year, tells me that this is someone who just picked up a book and hasn't really done anything yet
>attitude of Indian developers towards contributing to open source projects
Huh? I know plenty of Indian open source developers (myself included)
Huh? I know plenty of Indian open source developers (myself included)
No.
> Contributing to open source projects matters more than your marks in school to us and to a lot of other companies around.
Maybe it matters more to them and perhaps it's specific to India, but in Canada participation of a candidate in open source projects is of just a cursory interest. Besides quoted exchange states that they simply wanted to look at guy's code. If so, then just ask for it. Getting into "thou shalt contribute to the open source" tirade is pretty much pointless given the context.