Kickstarter threatened by business-method patent owner?(hollywoodreporter.com)
hollywoodreporter.com
Kickstarter threatened by business-method patent owner?
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/kickstarter-patent-fan-funded-artistshare-243632
30 comments
There's got to be a tipping point where everyone has eventually seen a company they've followed get threatened by patent trolls with questionable patents like this and gets behind the movement to ban software, business model, and other the other patent forms that are causing more harm than good. I just hope that this happens before we see too much damage to companies like Kickstarter that are doing good work.
I just wished that somebody patented the patent trolling business method, and used that against all the patent trolls...
You mean like this? http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Se...
A guy from Halliburton patented patent trolling? Seriously?
IBM has tried several times to obtain this patent.
Previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2759642
Previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2759642
Is there any reason why this hasn't been done? It is certainly a strange business method of acquiring intellectual property for the sole purpose of locating and suing unknowing infringers.
Perhaps you can only patent the method that you use to find the infringers? Maybe you can patent a seemingly-specific way of searching the web for potential infringers?
I have a poor understanding of what can and cannot be patented. It seems like everything can be patented, but then it needs to be defended in court if it's challenged.
Perhaps you can only patent the method that you use to find the infringers? Maybe you can patent a seemingly-specific way of searching the web for potential infringers?
I have a poor understanding of what can and cannot be patented. It seems like everything can be patented, but then it needs to be defended in court if it's challenged.
Wow, that's pretty brilliant. I wish it actually worked. At least it would make a great parody though - it would be cool to start a fake business front to go about suing patent trolls for infringing on your patent trolling patent just to raise awareness about the insanity of it all.
Kickstarter needs to crowd-source the legal defense :P
$5,000 for signed transcripts of the trial... $100,000 for the courtroom sketch?
Cute, but with something like a legal defense or a ballot initiative, where a warchest of a given size could swing an outcome, hitting the fundraising goal could be incentive enough to kick in.
Here's the classic college example: in California it costs 1-2 million dollars to pay for the signature-gathering to get an initiative on the ballot. Would 100k college students pay $20 to get, say, 'hot issue' on the ballot? You only pay $20 if the full amount is collected. For 100 million you might have a 'sure thing' campaign, could you get 1 million people effected by 'hot issue' to pay $100?
How much does it cost to get a patent invalidated, assuming a patent reeking of frivolousness should thereby have grounds for invalidation?
Here's the classic college example: in California it costs 1-2 million dollars to pay for the signature-gathering to get an initiative on the ballot. Would 100k college students pay $20 to get, say, 'hot issue' on the ballot? You only pay $20 if the full amount is collected. For 100 million you might have a 'sure thing' campaign, could you get 1 million people effected by 'hot issue' to pay $100?
How much does it cost to get a patent invalidated, assuming a patent reeking of frivolousness should thereby have grounds for invalidation?
What is key in patents are claims. I don't see that this patent passes the new pencil and paper test for process patentatibility.
(see http://www.ims-expertservices.com/blog/2011/the-new-pencil-a...).
I think they are just trying to scare people away with basically nothing.
(see http://www.ims-expertservices.com/blog/2011/the-new-pencil-a...).
I think they are just trying to scare people away with basically nothing.
Let Brian Camelio, the CEO of ArtistShare know how you feel:
[email protected]
[email protected]
Let's not resort to mob mentality, please.
I think it would be perfectly valid to write something along these lines:
"Hi! I just found out about ArtistShare.com. Looks like a great site! Unfortunately, the way I heard about it was that I learned of the patent suit by its founder, or a licensee, against Kickstarter.com. In protest, I will not be participating on ArtistShare. Just thought I would let you know. Have a great day!!!"
"Hi! I just found out about ArtistShare.com. Looks like a great site! Unfortunately, the way I heard about it was that I learned of the patent suit by its founder, or a licensee, against Kickstarter.com. In protest, I will not be participating on ArtistShare. Just thought I would let you know. Have a great day!!!"
That's the sort of thing that only hold weight if you ever intended to use ArtistShare.com.
It's like me threatening to boycott Time Warner, McDonald's or Barney's - I'm not their customer, and I never will be, so what do they care?
It's like me threatening to boycott Time Warner, McDonald's or Barney's - I'm not their customer, and I never will be, so what do they care?
I'm only one customer, but I'm clearly in the target market, as I've contributed to three projects on Kickstarter.
You're right, it would have been useful to point this out.
You're right, it would have been useful to point this out.
Letting your opinion be known and asking others to share their's as well is not mob mentality. If we don't let people who operate in this manner know that there are many of us that are against their way of doing business, how can we expect things to change?
I doubt a patent troll cares about what people think.
This just makes me sick.
Brian Camelio, congratulations - you're a scumbag.
There are no two sides to this story.
Brian Camelio, congratulations - you're a scumbag.
There are no two sides to this story.
This patent madness calls for some kind of localized troll-defense. Maybe a fee pool? I.e. startups (especially the underfunded) in cityX share potential legal costs by contributing to a fund which will be used to hire lawyers to defend any member sued by a patent troll. Maybe get local govt to chip in too (support startups as future employers and economic growth contributors). ...A local startup guild? Union? Or should insurance firms develop anti-troll coverage packages?
It's just crazy that aside from 100 other challenges of being an early stage company, you now have to contend with the increasing possibility of being hit by a troll. Any change in legislation will be a long time coming and in the meantime, trolls should be pushed back in some way.
It's just crazy that aside from 100 other challenges of being an early stage company, you now have to contend with the increasing possibility of being hit by a troll. Any change in legislation will be a long time coming and in the meantime, trolls should be pushed back in some way.
Kickstarter actually has 2 of its own very specific patents. So this article is a bit mis-leading. Kickstarter is in a much better position than this article or the behavior of ArtistShare would seem to indicate. Bottom line ArtistShare. Stop wasting everyone's time and get back to building a great business.
Given that the KickStarter is a method of finding crowd based funding for arts and other small projects/inventions. Could there be room for a startup that does more "classical" artist/inventor funding by patronage? Using the Internet to connect funky arts/inention people with patrons that want to support them.
This may be a good lead on prior art. Unfortunately, the Wikipedia article itself doesn't qualify: Its earliest version dates back only to 2003; the original provisional patent application was filed in 2002.
The Street Performer Protocol definitely predates the patent, although I don't know if it directly addresses the claims of the patent:
http://www.schneier.com/paper-street-performer.html
http://www.schneier.com/paper-street-performer.html
I've been working on a project in this same general area (crowdfunding) and this scares the everliving bejeezus out of me.
Perhaps the only real revolution we can do to improve the system of capitalism is to increase the ability of creative minds to gather funding and address the needs of the masses. If everyone is a capitalist--if everyone is able to easily seek funding to address public needs--then things can get better for everyone.
This is the sort of thing that prevents that. :(
Perhaps the only real revolution we can do to improve the system of capitalism is to increase the ability of creative minds to gather funding and address the needs of the masses. If everyone is a capitalist--if everyone is able to easily seek funding to address public needs--then things can get better for everyone.
This is the sort of thing that prevents that. :(
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For now, we're stuck with the mindless fundamentalists who view the number of patents issued each year as a clear measure of progress. In a earlier age, these would be the guys congratulating themselves for burning the most witches ever.