Ask HN: Is it normal to be ghosted for senior position job interviews?
61 comments
I was going to post "not normal at all", but then I noticed you mentioned recruiters. Are these 3rd party recruiters you are going through (i.e. not employed in-house by the companies)? If so you might want to consider the possibility that the recruiter is claiming to have scheduled an interview that the company hadn't really properly agreed to or were pressured into.
But in general when dealing directly with a company I'd say: no reply to an application is completely normal, but not turning up to scheduled interview is not at all.
But in general when dealing directly with a company I'd say: no reply to an application is completely normal, but not turning up to scheduled interview is not at all.
> Are these 3rd party recruiters
I've been ghosted by 3rd-party recruiters since before we had the term. I've had 3rd-party recruiters make materially false claims about the job, the location, the pay bands. This is just bog standard industry behavior.
I've also had one 1st-party recruiter recruiter ghost me (oddly, from a world-famous law firm) that took the time to bring me in for on-site interviews.
Just as "go in person with a firm handshake to get a job" is a social norm of a bygone era, treating applicants with enough respect to at least send a generic "thanks for applying" is a dying norm. Folks feel they don't owe their fellow man any basic courtesies, be it replacing a shopping cart, or sending a rejection email.
I've been ghosted by 3rd-party recruiters since before we had the term. I've had 3rd-party recruiters make materially false claims about the job, the location, the pay bands. This is just bog standard industry behavior.
I've also had one 1st-party recruiter recruiter ghost me (oddly, from a world-famous law firm) that took the time to bring me in for on-site interviews.
Just as "go in person with a firm handshake to get a job" is a social norm of a bygone era, treating applicants with enough respect to at least send a generic "thanks for applying" is a dying norm. Folks feel they don't owe their fellow man any basic courtesies, be it replacing a shopping cart, or sending a rejection email.
With third party recruiters there can be many reasons (in another comment i mentioned some). But if it's a third party recruiter then this seems to be a pattern... find someone new.
[edit]: If you don't trust them. It might also be advisable to ask your data be deleted and recend permission of them sending your cv, name or other data to companies.
[edit]: If you don't trust them. It might also be advisable to ask your data be deleted and recend permission of them sending your cv, name or other data to companies.
I went through the official channel, so I assume inhouse recruiters (although it appears like some of these recruiters are actually external recruiters but hired by the company to act like internal ones?).
It’d be interesting to know if it was the same recruiter for all three positions. Definitely time to change recruiters, too.
Hi, I work for Microsoft at an engineering role and would like (with your permission) to escalate this internally since this experience sounds awful and nothing like what I experienced or what we aim to deliver.
So - while I'm just a lowly developer I'd like to give escalating this a shot. If interested email me at [email protected]
To reiterate: this is not normal and not representative of what an interview process looks like in Microsoft (regardless of whether you're an intern or a big-shot manager).
(This comment is just based on my experience and I'm speaking for myself and not Microsoft)
So - while I'm just a lowly developer I'd like to give escalating this a shot. If interested email me at [email protected]
To reiterate: this is not normal and not representative of what an interview process looks like in Microsoft (regardless of whether you're an intern or a big-shot manager).
(This comment is just based on my experience and I'm speaking for myself and not Microsoft)
Hi Inglor, thank you very much for the offer. I'm giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt here, they did reach out after the planned interview. I prefer to not escalate as I don't want anyone to get personally burned over this, or hire my future potential chances :)
Last time I was job searching I got interviewed by several FAANG and accepted a job at one of them. Didn't even hear back from Microsoft.
No, it's not normal. Honestly, it is not even normal to be 5 mins late from an interview. I'm a VPE at a not-very-big company, still involved in occasional intro calls with junior engineers (with zero experience). I'd be ashamed if I were 5 mins late from those interviews.
I find it somewhat acceptable to not respond to applications (sometimes companies get too many to handle all of them, especially if they don't have a well-resourced HR dept), but intentionally not appearing on an interview should be a firing offence I believe.
I find it somewhat acceptable to not respond to applications (sometimes companies get too many to handle all of them, especially if they don't have a well-resourced HR dept), but intentionally not appearing on an interview should be a firing offence I believe.
I don't think the rank of the position matters - it is unprofessional to not show for an interview, regardless of role, and leaves an appropriately bad impression on the candidate.
In a previous role, I would go on campus recruiting trips for my company, and we'd often have back to back interviews. Even when the I was literally trapped in a room, so the candidate knew I was there, I would do my best to finish on time and quickly get the next candidate. Eventually, our recruiters started building in buffer time, but until then, if I wanted to present myself and my company in the best light, then we had to start on the right foot - on time.
I occasionally interview higher level roles these days, and it's the same thing. Being virtual makes it far easier, since I can go from any meeting to the next with a button click, but when we were doing in-person interviews, it was necessary to plan for travel time between rooms. In the best of cases, the interviewers were the ones who moved, and not the candidate, but in either case, I'd rather wait on them than they wait on me.
So, no, it's neither normal nor professional.
In a previous role, I would go on campus recruiting trips for my company, and we'd often have back to back interviews. Even when the I was literally trapped in a room, so the candidate knew I was there, I would do my best to finish on time and quickly get the next candidate. Eventually, our recruiters started building in buffer time, but until then, if I wanted to present myself and my company in the best light, then we had to start on the right foot - on time.
I occasionally interview higher level roles these days, and it's the same thing. Being virtual makes it far easier, since I can go from any meeting to the next with a button click, but when we were doing in-person interviews, it was necessary to plan for travel time between rooms. In the best of cases, the interviewers were the ones who moved, and not the candidate, but in either case, I'd rather wait on them than they wait on me.
So, no, it's neither normal nor professional.
I work at Grafana Labs (Snr Director of Engineering here) and that is not the standard we operate at or aspire to.
I'll raise it internally to find out what happened in this case as I care that this is not how we act.
I'll raise it internally to find out what happened in this case as I care that this is not how we act.
> I know shaming companies with their name is not nice, but ghosting candidates also isn't nice
From my perspective, your post is courteous. I doubt that any of those companies want other people to have your experience. If you don't name the companies, they might never know that there is an issue.
From my perspective, your post is courteous. I doubt that any of those companies want other people to have your experience. If you don't name the companies, they might never know that there is an issue.
What strikes me as "not normal" is scheduling the interview and no-one shows up. I suspect those interviews were never scheduled at all and the headhunter is just going for "volume" to see what sticks. It's a crappy tactic.
On the other hand, I've had plenty of recruiters say they're recruiting for $HOT_JOB and then ghost. I've gotten feedback from a few I actually talk to more than a month and the feedback is typically along the lines of:
"The client said resume looks like you're a contractor". Spoiler alert - yes, and this is on the resume, I just take it as a softball "no" because I refuse to believe HR is that stupid.
"The position was filled before I could get you in front of them" which might be a "No" but more likely is "the position was created with someone in mind to fill it but we have to go through the motions of posting it..."
"You are out of their price range" - damn right skippy. No-one works for free.
But thats if I get feedback, it's far more common to simply get ghosted after they submit your resume.
On the other hand, I've had plenty of recruiters say they're recruiting for $HOT_JOB and then ghost. I've gotten feedback from a few I actually talk to more than a month and the feedback is typically along the lines of:
"The client said resume looks like you're a contractor". Spoiler alert - yes, and this is on the resume, I just take it as a softball "no" because I refuse to believe HR is that stupid.
"The position was filled before I could get you in front of them" which might be a "No" but more likely is "the position was created with someone in mind to fill it but we have to go through the motions of posting it..."
"You are out of their price range" - damn right skippy. No-one works for free.
But thats if I get feedback, it's far more common to simply get ghosted after they submit your resume.
Ghosted after the interview is very common, ghosted before an interview is scheduled is very common. But to not show up for the interview? That is not at all normal. Something is weird.
It's really a sad state of affairs in the labor market. Ghosting after an interview or even recruitment conversation was not the norm before.
To some degree ghosting before was at least less common, most businesses had boiler plate responses that you didn't pass the first filter they'd send out. After an interview it was expected to hear a timely response. At the very least, inform you the process is taking longer than expected, a decline, or an offer. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 10 years we see more ghosting on actual interviews.
It's just plain bad business behavior to not follow through with easy scheduling commitments like a person to person meeting. I've missed a handful of meetings I didn't reschedule prior in my entire career and all of them were emergencies (car accidents, transport issues, rushing to a hospital for a loved one, etc.) I can distinctively remember each of them.
Employee and employer relationships have always been a bit like the current culture of dating but businesses usually were the more courteous of the two relationship cultures. Now it appears ghosting people from the dating world has moved full pace into the business culture, not showing up for dates and all.
To some degree ghosting before was at least less common, most businesses had boiler plate responses that you didn't pass the first filter they'd send out. After an interview it was expected to hear a timely response. At the very least, inform you the process is taking longer than expected, a decline, or an offer. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 10 years we see more ghosting on actual interviews.
It's just plain bad business behavior to not follow through with easy scheduling commitments like a person to person meeting. I've missed a handful of meetings I didn't reschedule prior in my entire career and all of them were emergencies (car accidents, transport issues, rushing to a hospital for a loved one, etc.) I can distinctively remember each of them.
Employee and employer relationships have always been a bit like the current culture of dating but businesses usually were the more courteous of the two relationship cultures. Now it appears ghosting people from the dating world has moved full pace into the business culture, not showing up for dates and all.
During 2020 I personally experienced:
* Early screen, then ghosting, not replying to my follow-up.
* Nobody turning up to the scheduled interview, then a day later an automated email thanking me for my application and asking me to pick a slot. It seemed like I was stuck in an automated loop. I later checked Glassdoor and there were loads of reports of this.
* No response to my application for 3 weeks, followed by a recruiter trying to schedule the first interview for another month from then (I managed to make it happen the next week instead).
* Early screen, then ghosting, not replying to my follow-up.
* Nobody turning up to the scheduled interview, then a day later an automated email thanking me for my application and asking me to pick a slot. It seemed like I was stuck in an automated loop. I later checked Glassdoor and there were loads of reports of this.
* No response to my application for 3 weeks, followed by a recruiter trying to schedule the first interview for another month from then (I managed to make it happen the next week instead).
My personal experiences say this seems weird. I personally haven't seen people not show up for a scheduled interview. Ghosting afterwards? Extremely common.
I can see the Microsoft one being a routine mistake in an overloaded manual process. I have had recruiter working for a large company randomly disappear mid-process because they no longer work there. Took them a while to get back to me.
I can see the Microsoft one being a routine mistake in an overloaded manual process. I have had recruiter working for a large company randomly disappear mid-process because they no longer work there. Took them a while to get back to me.
You can get ghosted in any situation, I recently finished a final round interview and was ghosted for a solid month.
I accepted. I didn't get the job, and I actually had to go and email the recruiters boss to even get this confirmed. Immediately turned me off from the company, I don't need a bunch of flowery words just say I didn't get it.
I accepted. I didn't get the job, and I actually had to go and email the recruiters boss to even get this confirmed. Immediately turned me off from the company, I don't need a bunch of flowery words just say I didn't get it.
I think right now this is normal. Anytime before it is not. The reason? It’s a bloodbath of getting hiring committees together with how bad retention has been across the board. People are being promoted into jobs they’ve never done and hiring is often one of those responsibilities. Recruiters, hiring managers, and committees are hardly on the same page and time zones.
I do expect this to get better as the reshuffling starts to stabilize but I don’t think we’re done across the industry quite yet.
Sorry you had a shitty experience. I’ve been on both sides recently and have covered for no shows who are supposed to help interview. No person interviewing ever deserves to be ghosted.
I do expect this to get better as the reshuffling starts to stabilize but I don’t think we’re done across the industry quite yet.
Sorry you had a shitty experience. I’ve been on both sides recently and have covered for no shows who are supposed to help interview. No person interviewing ever deserves to be ghosted.
I feel old and crotchety now, but Society has changed.
The dating world has moved into (or mirrors?) the greater world and there "No answer is an answer" is the law of the land. And why not, seems there's no consequence for bad manners, and maybe no reward for good manners. So good manners are an inefficient liability these days.
This is one of the outcomes of massively expanding our spheres of communication (globalization + internet are enablers). What does it mean when you can cheat every customer that comes along and there will always be a new one? Or be rude to every option on (tinder|hinge|bumble) and there will always be another one? or ghost a candidate, and there will always be another one?
Also another way to think about it is external recruiters get to coast on the good will of the greater brand (say "Google") and any small damage they do to it is unlikely to be attributed back to the external recruiter. They don't have to buck up and reject you explicitly because they can just let "google" take the nick to their reputation.
The dating world has moved into (or mirrors?) the greater world and there "No answer is an answer" is the law of the land. And why not, seems there's no consequence for bad manners, and maybe no reward for good manners. So good manners are an inefficient liability these days.
This is one of the outcomes of massively expanding our spheres of communication (globalization + internet are enablers). What does it mean when you can cheat every customer that comes along and there will always be a new one? Or be rude to every option on (tinder|hinge|bumble) and there will always be another one? or ghost a candidate, and there will always be another one?
Also another way to think about it is external recruiters get to coast on the good will of the greater brand (say "Google") and any small damage they do to it is unlikely to be attributed back to the external recruiter. They don't have to buck up and reject you explicitly because they can just let "google" take the nick to their reputation.
There is a consequence for bad behavior. Ghosting is a consequence of (usually) guys taking rejection badly. Calling her a whore for not sleeping with him, fat/ugly for refusing a date, threatening to show up her door, assault her, etc.
Sure it didn’t happen all the time, but enough girls shares enough stories that it’s just easier to ghost.
Unfortunately it’s spreading everywhere.
Sure it didn’t happen all the time, but enough girls shares enough stories that it’s just easier to ghost.
Unfortunately it’s spreading everywhere.
I thoroughly agree that people should not be retaliating when rejected. This goes both ways and imo breaking social norms is a form of retaliation.
We shouldn't be attempting to play a calculus of who is more victim here. Both sides should just do what's right.
We shouldn't be attempting to play a calculus of who is more victim here. Both sides should just do what's right.
FWIW, I had the same experience with a Google recruiter. I suspect there's just some dropped balls, and they have enough interview volume that it doesn't affect their hiring ability, so there's no reason to ensure the balls aren't dropped. Miserable experience, and one reason I will never bother with a large company for the rest of my career.
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Well over ten years ago I had a phone interview with google. First time they didn't show up, so it got rescheduled. Then after the interview.. nothing.
More than a year later I get an email out of the blue from google saying they saw I did great on the phone interview, when would I like to come in for the next round! LOL.. no.
So it has been happening for a long time.
More than a year later I get an email out of the blue from google saying they saw I did great on the phone interview, when would I like to come in for the next round! LOL.. no.
So it has been happening for a long time.
I had a similar experience on Triplebyte and it turned out to just be terrible UX. When you first booked the interview, it would give you a phone number to call.
Later on, the company could add Zoom details. That would get stuck in some sub-section of Triplebyte UI. So if, like me, you didn’t go check their website at the moment of the interview, you would call a number and nobody answers and you think you got ghosted - and the company also thought they got ghosted.
It happened 3 interviews in a row until I figured out what was going on.
Later on, the company could add Zoom details. That would get stuck in some sub-section of Triplebyte UI. So if, like me, you didn’t go check their website at the moment of the interview, you would call a number and nobody answers and you think you got ghosted - and the company also thought they got ghosted.
It happened 3 interviews in a row until I figured out what was going on.
My thoughts
- not normal and quite the statistical clustering.
- Depending on the role, sometimes things happen. I'm in operations, and I have at times been late or had to reschedule due to critical incident. But we double and triple up on coverage so there's always SOMEbody to open up the meeting and talk to the candidate, on time. And while we have at times been slow to respond via email in scheduling or following up, we never ghosted somebody for a scheduled interview - that seems weird and rare. Similarly, I've never personally been ghosted (I know lots of people who have though).
- One thing though - are you applying to the companies directly, or are you going through agency/recruitment company? Just to isolate whether there's some single point of failure.
- not normal and quite the statistical clustering.
- Depending on the role, sometimes things happen. I'm in operations, and I have at times been late or had to reschedule due to critical incident. But we double and triple up on coverage so there's always SOMEbody to open up the meeting and talk to the candidate, on time. And while we have at times been slow to respond via email in scheduling or following up, we never ghosted somebody for a scheduled interview - that seems weird and rare. Similarly, I've never personally been ghosted (I know lots of people who have though).
- One thing though - are you applying to the companies directly, or are you going through agency/recruitment company? Just to isolate whether there's some single point of failure.
It's extremely normal for recruiters to ghost you during the process, when they've found someone else or the open req simply went away. This is routine for third-party recruiters, but also to be expected from in-house recruiters too.
I've never scheduled an actual interview with an actual engineering person, and then be ghosted at that specific step. Years ago, I once had someone miss an initial technical phone screen, because a production outage came up minutes before the scheduled time. But even then, the company reached out shortly to let me know.
I would not even consider moving forward with such a company as you're describing, especially in the current job market.
I've never scheduled an actual interview with an actual engineering person, and then be ghosted at that specific step. Years ago, I once had someone miss an initial technical phone screen, because a production outage came up minutes before the scheduled time. But even then, the company reached out shortly to let me know.
I would not even consider moving forward with such a company as you're describing, especially in the current job market.
The same thing happened to me when I was last job hunting, albeit with a much lower ratio and far smaller companies. I chalked it up to people being disorganized and just wrote off those companies as possible employers in most cases.
Sorry, that's not normal. The only thing I can think of is they're finding something during last-minute research that makes you untouchable. Maybe a really damning search result?
If you have any friendly contacts at those companies (referrals), maybe they can give you a hint about what happened.
During a FAANG onsite I was given the same exact question twice and they did the wrong type of interview—so I could believe disorganization as a possibility. But I've never had someone not show in an interview, and 3 times in a row is beyond unlucky.
If you have any friendly contacts at those companies (referrals), maybe they can give you a hint about what happened.
During a FAANG onsite I was given the same exact question twice and they did the wrong type of interview—so I could believe disorganization as a possibility. But I've never had someone not show in an interview, and 3 times in a row is beyond unlucky.
> The only thing I can think of is they're finding something during last-minute research that makes you untouchable. Maybe a really damning search result?
Hah. Since it happened 3/3 times, I started wondering if it was just me. As far as I'm aware there is nothing bad about me on the internet, so I don't think it's that :P
But it somewhat reassures me to read that others have been in the same boat.
Hah. Since it happened 3/3 times, I started wondering if it was just me. As far as I'm aware there is nothing bad about me on the internet, so I don't think it's that :P
But it somewhat reassures me to read that others have been in the same boat.
Yeah this was my gut reaction, maybe a name conflict with a terrorist or AML watchlist or something. Or just plain bad luck but interesting coincidences.
It doesn't have to be that drastic.
The hiring company could have simply had a good candidate much further along in the pipeline that signed an offer, then then company/recruiter simply forgot about OP (or choose to not address the elephant in the room, the company had multiple suitors for the role and OP was not a top contender)
The hiring company could have simply had a good candidate much further along in the pipeline that signed an offer, then then company/recruiter simply forgot about OP (or choose to not address the elephant in the room, the company had multiple suitors for the role and OP was not a top contender)
That's unfortunately common and would explain ghosting on next steps but doesn't explain bailing on interviews that are already scheduled.
I mean, going through with an interview when you already have a better than expected candidate is a sort of sunken cost fallacy, no?
If you're looking to roll a 5 or 6, do you keep rolling after getting one?
If you're looking to roll a 5 or 6, do you keep rolling after getting one?
That seems really weird. You say you "scheduled an interview" but I assume that means that they scheduled an interview with you after you applied/reached out?
Is this in the USA or Europe or somewhere else?
Anyway, seems bizarre to me to do that to any candidate, let alone a senior one (who are in demand these days).
Is this in the USA or Europe or somewhere else?
Anyway, seems bizarre to me to do that to any candidate, let alone a senior one (who are in demand these days).
So by interview I mean the initial one, after I applied for a job and got a confirmation that they'd like to talk to me and we agreed on a date/time and had a zoom meeting set up.
These are roles in Amsterdam. In case of Microsoft, I think it's a very recent development that they started hiring engineers in Amsterdam, so that might play into it.
These are roles in Amsterdam. In case of Microsoft, I think it's a very recent development that they started hiring engineers in Amsterdam, so that might play into it.
> Is this in the USA or Europe or somewhere else?
The companies are explicitly mentioned. Are you asking about the location of the poster? If so, why?
The companies are explicitly mentioned. Are you asking about the location of the poster? If so, why?
I wondered if there was a geographic pattern to the ghosting. I haven't heard of ghosting on an interview happening in the USA, my employment market.
Though apparently plenty of others have, as mentioned in sibling comments.
Though apparently plenty of others have, as mentioned in sibling comments.
That makes sense. I initially read it differently, so I asked about this to make sure I corrected myself properly.
Miro is based in Russia and is probably having massive problems right now. The other two are odd for sure
Are you sure? Looking at this[0] which is obviously partial, but it doesn't seem so. Of course they might nevertheless be mired in chaos due to closing their Russian office.
[0] https://miro.com/blog/update-from-miro-team/
[0] https://miro.com/blog/update-from-miro-team/
Oh wow. I know they have quite some employees in Amsterdam and were actively hiring there a few years ago. I didn't know they had completely dropped Russia. It's where they started, and they had a lot of employees there. Crazy
I'm applying for Amsterdam, I think the recruiter is from Western Europe. But my interviews did kind of coincide with the Russian war on Ukraine, so it might affect it indeed.
If they are large companies, it is theoretically possible that the people assigned to interview you weren’t super invested and missed the whole thing.
At that point you basically have 3 layers of people (Hiring Manager, HR, Recruiter), that will do their best to make it sound like something other than:
Our interviewer didn’t show up to the interview because they were still in bed/too busy with other stuff/never informed they had to interview anyone
To have it happen 3 times in a row, with different companies, seems pretty improbable though.
At that point you basically have 3 layers of people (Hiring Manager, HR, Recruiter), that will do their best to make it sound like something other than:
Our interviewer didn’t show up to the interview because they were still in bed/too busy with other stuff/never informed they had to interview anyone
To have it happen 3 times in a row, with different companies, seems pretty improbable though.
Frankly depending on how aggressive the hiring is or how overwhelmed/new the recruiter is it might just be mass disorganization. I’ve had things like a new recruiter not notifying the hiring manager when they schedule something, or not checking in after an interview, etc.
I've been through the hiring process with Microsoft -- it is VERY high touch, and this is definitely not normal. I can't speak for the other companies though.
Back in the day, a recruiter built relationships with both client and candidate pool, made sure the folks presented were good candidates for the job, and made sure the process moved forward smoothly, so ghosting would be bad for business. Now, the vast majority of 'recruiters' (esp those on the big job sites) are just spammers with a nicer job title and somewhat more paperwork to process: got an email someone wants 'python programmer', search the big job sites and internal database for resumes and bulk send them to the hiring manager. They don't even have to call to set up the interview...there's a website for that. There's no relationship, so who cares it you piss on them.
My ex was a technical recruiter for 20+ years at a number of marquee tech firms, and it was sad to see her job go from well respected matchmaker between client and candidate making sure there was a good fit to 'run the search, blast the email, go to next request in the queue'. Which as collateral damage meant she was no more useful to the firm than a fresh out of college new hire making a fraction as much. You can imagine how that ended.
My ex was a technical recruiter for 20+ years at a number of marquee tech firms, and it was sad to see her job go from well respected matchmaker between client and candidate making sure there was a good fit to 'run the search, blast the email, go to next request in the queue'. Which as collateral damage meant she was no more useful to the firm than a fresh out of college new hire making a fraction as much. You can imagine how that ended.
Not sure where you are but this may be linked to the number of resignations and vacancies in many big companies at the moment. I have been trying to buy some high value electronic instruments at work for the last 12 months but it is turning into a nightmare. Some suppliers won't reply to emails , others promise to arrange a sales engineer to visit but never do. Finally one company seemed interested and sent a pre-sales engineer who took details then vanished , then I was told that engineer was ill but another would come out to get the same info. They came out then the same happened again and I'm told the pre-sales engineer has left and another needs to be sent out.
This same pattern seems to be repeating a lot these days.
It's quite possible the manager who wanted the post you applied for has gone and your appointment had been forgotten about. HR would have been involved but don't like to leave their homes at the moment so this happens.
This same pattern seems to be repeating a lot these days.
It's quite possible the manager who wanted the post you applied for has gone and your appointment had been forgotten about. HR would have been involved but don't like to leave their homes at the moment so this happens.
I had an interview scheduled on Monday, got a teams link which I clicked at the specified time, but nobody else showed up. Possibly some timezone confusion, but I was definitely there at the time I was told to be. Emailed them, got no reply.
Edit: tbf I've had other interviews where the interviewers did show up
Edit: tbf I've had other interviews where the interviewers did show up
Ghosting, be it intentional or unintentional, is common in my experience. Companies forgetting to turn up to calls happens, not telling you if you passed the interview is common.
Don’t take anything personally no matter how absurd and just treat the entire job searching process as a game.
Don’t take anything personally no matter how absurd and just treat the entire job searching process as a game.
This is very unusual given the scarcity of more experienced candidates.
I interviewed a "principal" engineer once. It was supposed to be a technical interview over Zoom. The guy shows up 10 minutes late, no camera on, tells me he is out running errands, shopping and taking his kid to baseball practice, but can we still talk? Back then I put in more effort, so I tried to ask him some questions. He tells me he "didn't know it was going to be technical." These days, I'd probably just ask him to reschedule.
I'm not sure how he even passed the initial phone screen. Most interviewers are bad at it. I'm bad at it.
I interviewed a "principal" engineer once. It was supposed to be a technical interview over Zoom. The guy shows up 10 minutes late, no camera on, tells me he is out running errands, shopping and taking his kid to baseball practice, but can we still talk? Back then I put in more effort, so I tried to ask him some questions. He tells me he "didn't know it was going to be technical." These days, I'd probably just ask him to reschedule.
I'm not sure how he even passed the initial phone screen. Most interviewers are bad at it. I'm bad at it.
Have applied to multiple senior engineering (IC - individual contributor) roles, and have never been ghosted this way (in the US). I've always got a phone screen, and a polite "not a fit" or something neutral (for the hiring co.) as a decline.
To be ghosted, 1) on a Zoom 2) On a call, scheduled by other party - is either massively unprofessional, or there has been massive miscommunication of some kind (possibly by the recruiter). Please try to spend extra time with recruiter on every aspect when scheduling calls. You don't deserve to be discouraged in this fashion, but you also have to be careful in where you send in your candidacy.
To be ghosted, 1) on a Zoom 2) On a call, scheduled by other party - is either massively unprofessional, or there has been massive miscommunication of some kind (possibly by the recruiter). Please try to spend extra time with recruiter on every aspect when scheduling calls. You don't deserve to be discouraged in this fashion, but you also have to be careful in where you send in your candidacy.
Only from weak management. Real management knows we're always recruiting. Matches of needs + applicants today might not be a good fit, but the candidate could always be a great fit soon, or someone they know. Interviews are a two way street.
They show great candidates how they can fit culture. They show strong companies why everyone should want to join.
They show great candidates how they can fit culture. They show strong companies why everyone should want to join.
Unfortunately, having been in the job market recently, I would say that it's normal.
Ive had my share of:
Ghosting and no contact
Ghosting and then shitty email saying I didn't show up
Interviewing and then summary dismissal from interview because I didn't have "pet" technology (which was stated at 1st interview)
Interviewing multiple rounds and then hit with "Do 4-8 hour assessment". NO.
Bait and Switch: Position band is $140k-$175k on ad. During 1st round, stated salary was really $90k.
Family Family Family Family (toxic signs everywhere)
Hostility when I asked questions (Why is the role available, etc)
Basically, hiring is broken consistently across everywhere. Some places are better than others. But no place really has good procedure for a decent and respectful hiring procedures. At best, it's a spin at the roulette wheel. Worst case, you get what happened to me back in November, and work for a place so toxic that you walk out 17 days later.
Ive had my share of:
Ghosting and no contact
Ghosting and then shitty email saying I didn't show up
Interviewing and then summary dismissal from interview because I didn't have "pet" technology (which was stated at 1st interview)
Interviewing multiple rounds and then hit with "Do 4-8 hour assessment". NO.
Bait and Switch: Position band is $140k-$175k on ad. During 1st round, stated salary was really $90k.
Family Family Family Family (toxic signs everywhere)
Hostility when I asked questions (Why is the role available, etc)
Basically, hiring is broken consistently across everywhere. Some places are better than others. But no place really has good procedure for a decent and respectful hiring procedures. At best, it's a spin at the roulette wheel. Worst case, you get what happened to me back in November, and work for a place so toxic that you walk out 17 days later.
I’ve had three interviews at various stages in the last week or two and it looks like all of them have ghosted me after follow up. Maybe it’s something I’m doing but seems like a trending behavior that I’ve also read from others. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth, I’m sorry you’re experiencing it.
Pretty common in .nl. HR does not give a shit about you or your job. If there is no 'culture fit' or your resume doesnt tick the exact right boxes, they will just send your resume to the bin. This is mostly due to pure arrogance of HR people. Ghosting is practically the norm
I had an onsite interview for a unicorn company. The onsite consisted of 3 meetings. After the first two meetings (one with a C-level personnel), the recruiter came to the meeting room and told me that he's checking the availability of the developer who was about to meet me. Then he came back and told me that there's an outage in prod that the developer needed to deal with ASAP. He apologized the interview was cut short because of the "fire" but the team had enough data points during the first 2 meetings.
I believed the recruiter's explanation at first. Then I got a yucky feeling that the 3rd developer just wanted to ghost me. (No, I didn't get an offer.)
I believed the recruiter's explanation at first. Then I got a yucky feeling that the 3rd developer just wanted to ghost me. (No, I didn't get an offer.)
No, this is not normal. The companies that do this to you clearly have a bad hiring culture.
I've has internal interviews where people were late, HR didn't send the link, and the worst - the TL showed up but worked on their laptop the whole time, so distracted that they didn't even respond/acknowledge the answer I gave for the one question they asked (they offered me that job and I turned it down stating that I felt I wouldn't get the resources needed for growth on that team. They couldn't comprehend why I would feel that way even after going into detail. They tried to use that to make me look bad, which might have succeeded to some degree as my manager had a talk with me about it).
I was looking for work in November and even thought I have 15 years in software and cybersecurity, I still got ghosted by multiple recruiters. Two of which were at Google, and another at Apple. After talking to a friend at Google, she made it seem that their recruiting department was having issues (which I inferred to be staffing issues). For non-FAANG companies, I had no issues going through their interviews. Their recruiters and hiring staff were all very well prepared and the processes were smooth.
Keep trying OP!
Keep trying OP!
Anecdotally I’ve heard a lot of the recruiting orgs in tech companies are very understaffed right now. It might be a simple case of too many balls in the air for a small number of internal recruiters so stuff slips through the cracks.
While I never got ghosted fully I did deal with recruiters falling off the face of the earth and then emailing me back to set up a meeting. Oddest thing is this would happen for both rejections and offers.
While I never got ghosted fully I did deal with recruiters falling off the face of the earth and then emailing me back to set up a meeting. Oddest thing is this would happen for both rejections and offers.
Wow I'd have expected much better from Microsoft and Grafana. That's extremely disappointing.
Recruiting has become alike online dating. At this point I submit CVs purely from inertia and it's fruitless every time. At best there is explicit rejection after a "perfect match", there the only reason not stated by them seems to be my salary requirement.
I don't think I have ever experienced someone ghosting the actual interview but ghosting does happen for senior positions, and I think it's probably more likely due to the amount of attention that a senior level hire is going to get.
You mean senior level positions get a lot of responses?
Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant that hiring someone into a senior level position is going to require approval from more people within the organization and that will delay the hiring process, to the point that it might cause it to stall and result in ghosting.
But I think you are right that senior level positions also probably get a lot of submissions.
But I think you are right that senior level positions also probably get a lot of submissions.
Call me crazy.
I think ghosting might make a good take home test for anyone in a senior position.
It's mild adversity.
And senior position filling will rarely benefit from haste.
How a candidate handles ghosting might provide a look at their communication skills, comportment, and temperament.
Good luck.
I think ghosting might make a good take home test for anyone in a senior position.
It's mild adversity.
And senior position filling will rarely benefit from haste.
How a candidate handles ghosting might provide a look at their communication skills, comportment, and temperament.
Good luck.
Does it really work in an environment where the ghosted candidate usually has another job lined up?
I don’t know. It would depend on the objectives of the employer.
And what “senior” means.
If senior means supervision and/or management, then it is might filter out land mines.
In general it might be a reliable asshole filter.
If it is a warm body hire in an organization that tolerates bad behavior, then the company might miss out on a cultural fit.
And what “senior” means.
If senior means supervision and/or management, then it is might filter out land mines.
In general it might be a reliable asshole filter.
If it is a warm body hire in an organization that tolerates bad behavior, then the company might miss out on a cultural fit.
Are you applying directly or are you going through a third party recruiter?
Well these are egregious examples but it’s not really uncommon. Any time a recruiter is involved it’s just pipeline and meat for the grinder.
I'll go with yes, private companies are psycopathic entities that will ruthlessly exploit everyone and everything for their profit.
> the recruiter
Someone with a @company-you-mentioned.com address or an external recruiter? Makes quite a difference to your question.
Someone with a @company-you-mentioned.com address or an external recruiter? Makes quite a difference to your question.
There are two classes of candidates: Candidates sourced by current employees in the form of referrals, and candidates sourced by recruiters, regardless of how you ended up in their inbox.
Referrals are a class above organically sourced candidates. Usually they skip a few steps in the pipeline, like role matching or credentials verification or reference checks. If the pipeline slows down, a referrer can gently prod the recruiter. In my experience, referrals get to an offer decision in O(days) (Google and other slow monstrosities are the exception here).
By comparison, if you're organically sourced, the only person who cares about you is the recruiter. They're busy, and they usually focus on candidates that are close to netting them commission or hitting their goals. I find that there is an awkward stage in the pipeline just past the initial funnel where most candidates get stuck and drop out for one reason or another.
If you're in this second class, I'd actually recommend working with a headhunter if possible. Not all companies work with them as they take a big chunk of change, but they save you time and work for you.
Better yet, find a job where you know someone who works there who can get your foot in the door and make sure you're treated well.
Now, as far as getting ghosted for scheduled interviews, I've seen this happen too. The most common case is the recruiter is a contractor or third party and isn't scheduling meetings properly. I've had this happen dozens of times. It sucks but not much you can do. Sometimes they don't confirm the interviewers are actually available, and the interviewers never accept the invite. Bad look all around.
The other issue I frequently see is time zone issues. Are you in a different time zone than your interviewers? If so, I'd recommend shifting your clock to accommodate them at least partially. Meeting somewhere in the middle is best.
Lastly, there's a possibility that you're giving off red flags somehow. Is your resume problematic? Did you work somewhere controversial? Are you communicating politely? Would any back channel reference checks reflect poorly on you? I see this a fair bit where a candidate gets burned without knowing why. It sucks. Sometimes there are visa issues at play as well, where employers don't want to sponsor if they don't have to..
In any case, it's usually bureaucracy so try not to take it personally. Recruiters definitely represent their companies, but are often poor representatives. If you can get in touch with someone else, a hiring manager or IC, you'll have a much better time.
Good luck!
Referrals are a class above organically sourced candidates. Usually they skip a few steps in the pipeline, like role matching or credentials verification or reference checks. If the pipeline slows down, a referrer can gently prod the recruiter. In my experience, referrals get to an offer decision in O(days) (Google and other slow monstrosities are the exception here).
By comparison, if you're organically sourced, the only person who cares about you is the recruiter. They're busy, and they usually focus on candidates that are close to netting them commission or hitting their goals. I find that there is an awkward stage in the pipeline just past the initial funnel where most candidates get stuck and drop out for one reason or another.
If you're in this second class, I'd actually recommend working with a headhunter if possible. Not all companies work with them as they take a big chunk of change, but they save you time and work for you.
Better yet, find a job where you know someone who works there who can get your foot in the door and make sure you're treated well.
Now, as far as getting ghosted for scheduled interviews, I've seen this happen too. The most common case is the recruiter is a contractor or third party and isn't scheduling meetings properly. I've had this happen dozens of times. It sucks but not much you can do. Sometimes they don't confirm the interviewers are actually available, and the interviewers never accept the invite. Bad look all around.
The other issue I frequently see is time zone issues. Are you in a different time zone than your interviewers? If so, I'd recommend shifting your clock to accommodate them at least partially. Meeting somewhere in the middle is best.
Lastly, there's a possibility that you're giving off red flags somehow. Is your resume problematic? Did you work somewhere controversial? Are you communicating politely? Would any back channel reference checks reflect poorly on you? I see this a fair bit where a candidate gets burned without knowing why. It sucks. Sometimes there are visa issues at play as well, where employers don't want to sponsor if they don't have to..
In any case, it's usually bureaucracy so try not to take it personally. Recruiters definitely represent their companies, but are often poor representatives. If you can get in touch with someone else, a hiring manager or IC, you'll have a much better time.
Good luck!
You might want to check your timezone settings.
Interviewers not showing up seems really weird and surprising. At that point the hard work of scheduling etc. is done.
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In my experience, this is normal for some companies. I am a little surprised by your experience with Microsoft, but the others are relatively new, which means they have limited experience in interviewing and reviewing applicants for senior positions. They would do better by outsourcing the process to an HR IT headhunter. That way, they can keep working and let the hiring process sit with the consultant.
That's wild. I get ghosted all the time by recruiters. They message me on LinkedIn, I reply, crickets.
I’ve had plenty of interviews that resulted in zero contact after. Even from big names. Baffling.
Got ghosted the first time about a month ago for a Sr. Designer position at a company that was going to do a remote interview ... the internal HR person gave kind of a flimsy excuse afterwards that they "were out on a trip" (so why did you send the schedule of the interview with that time when you knew it was unavailable?). Definitely was a skip for a company for me.
tl;dr - Same. I hope it doesn't get more common.
tl;dr - Same. I hope it doesn't get more common.
There is no way these were internal recruiters…. third-party head hunters?
Happens too often, especially for HN posted positions.
Did you notice you share your name with a convicted drug lord from the UK? Maybe there was/is some mixup...
Companies have started doing weird "mind games" and "tests" lately, watch out
They announce their weird mind games on Facebook and LinkedIn. I had a friend who would reject candidates who ask for the address of the interview because it shows they couldn't do their research and look it up on the site.
What a terrible filter. The chances the interview is in a different location is quite high.
Since then, I've checked first where offices are before interviewing. I'd normally ask them, "I saw on Google Maps that your company was at X. Is that where we interview?" Half the time, the answer is no - it's some sales office and the engineering team is elsewhere, or "meet me at the cafe at the ground floor". A lot of companies also have multiple floors, so even if you get the building right, you have to ask which floor.
Hah. I was wondering if it could be that; a test to see how I would react.
Maybe your computing equipment has been hacked? I'm surprised so many people trust their software and operating systems when these have always originated from military projects!
> I'm surprised so many people trust their software and operating systems
As opposed to what? Creating your own OS and software down to the silicon?
As opposed to what? Creating your own OS and software down to the silicon?
Sounds like a great way to become a millionaire!!
(edit: if you start as a billionaire)
(edit: if you start as a billionaire)
Are you basing this judgment on your existing knowledge of programming tools?
Mostly a joke, but also looking at cases like AMD struggling for decades, ARM layoffs, convergence of OSes to concentrate on fewer "flavors" (despite more options available)
In my experience it looked like something was going on with Intel and Windows, so when ever you got a new internet explorer you needed to get a new computer with a new Intel processor because internet explorer slowed everything up.
and then there is this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_C%2B%2B_Compiler#Support...
But I also wonder about microcode and what that does to the performance of a cpu.
and then there is this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_C%2B%2B_Compiler#Support...
But I also wonder about microcode and what that does to the performance of a cpu.
Why not, at least you might have some trust in it, if you trust your own abilities?
I'm amazed that most people distrust strangers but happily hand over money and trust a stranger's product or service. Thats illogical isnt it?
I'm amazed that most people distrust strangers but happily hand over money and trust a stranger's product or service. Thats illogical isnt it?
My gut sense is they picked a range of experiences to interview and you filled the senior end of the spectrum. They most likely let you audition as the most senior candidate and if you aren’t overwhelmingly senior in their minds, they will stall and just kinda go back and forth between the junior and mid level candidate. But they wanted to survey all options.
Sorry about that, that’s just kind of how it works. It’s like looking at Expensive House A, Budget Nice House B, and Potential Cheap House C. Check out all three before deciding.
No matter what you hear about it being a hot job market, always know that it’s the company that gets the luxury of shopping around, not the candidate. It’s still a buyers market.
Sorry about that, that’s just kind of how it works. It’s like looking at Expensive House A, Budget Nice House B, and Potential Cheap House C. Check out all three before deciding.
No matter what you hear about it being a hot job market, always know that it’s the company that gets the luxury of shopping around, not the candidate. It’s still a buyers market.
Scheduling an interview with a candidate and not showing up is just how it works??
You want me to make up something nice to make everyone’s day delightful? I didn’t make this world.
Nah I call bullshit. This is not how the world works. You don't needlessly waste people time. If you have decided to move on to other candidates, you inform the person rather than just leave them waiting on an unanswered zoom call. This extremely unprofessional. This is how you're organization get's a bad reputation. Burning bridges is particularly stupid, when a simple email would suffice.
"Bad" and "just how it works" are not mutually exclusive.
Are you saying you've experienced this or know people who have?
Personally I have not experienced this or know anyone who has (I'm in EU if it matters).
In response to the original post: In each case you refer to a recruiter. Is this an external recruiter (and always the same one) or an HR person at the company you wish to work for? If it is (an external recruiter) then I can imagine it being something that has little to do with you (Maybe the recruiter is requesting advance payment or unreasonable amounts, demanding all further communication go through them to ensure they get paid/have evidence of having "recruited" you, have terms that say they get paid if an interview takes place or whatever).
If that is not the case it seems odd to me that you wouldn't simply get some kind of message along the lines of:
"We are sorry for your inconvenience but we have already filled the position in question. The interview will no longer be necessary."
[edit]: clarification
Personally I have not experienced this or know anyone who has (I'm in EU if it matters).
In response to the original post: In each case you refer to a recruiter. Is this an external recruiter (and always the same one) or an HR person at the company you wish to work for? If it is (an external recruiter) then I can imagine it being something that has little to do with you (Maybe the recruiter is requesting advance payment or unreasonable amounts, demanding all further communication go through them to ensure they get paid/have evidence of having "recruited" you, have terms that say they get paid if an interview takes place or whatever).
If that is not the case it seems odd to me that you wouldn't simply get some kind of message along the lines of:
"We are sorry for your inconvenience but we have already filled the position in question. The interview will no longer be necessary."
[edit]: clarification
I’m not sure that’s true, certainly not my experience and not an experience I’ve ever heard of (hence the wholesale confusion in this thread). Scheduling conflicts, sure, people miss interviews on occasion because of unforeseen circumstances… but I’ve never, ever been ghosted by an employer or recruiter once I was in the interview funnel.
We've seen replies from 2 of the named companies in the post abhorring this behavior and asking for permission to escalate to find out what happened. I've been ghosted after applying and then also after interviewing. That's how the world works. But setting an appointment for an interview and not showing up? That's not how the world works.
In the first 2 cases, I emailed the recruiter about 5~10 minutes after the interview was supposed to start, to check if I had the right meeting link (I know I did, but wanted to frame it politely). After the meeting was supposed to end, I sent another email saying that unfortunately I was not able to reach them, but that I'm still interested and would like to reschedule. Again... crickets.
In the 3rd scenario I confirmed the proposed interview date/time, but never received the meeting invite. Only after the interview was supposed to take place, the recruiter proposed a new time.
The companies mentioned are Grafana (no reply at all, not even from the head of people who I reached out to after being ignored by the recruiter 3 times), Miro (the recruiter replied several days later with a very vague non-apologetic message, but never reacted to my proposal of rescheduling) and Microsoft.
Is this a normal experience or is something weird going on?
(and yes, I know shaming companies with their name is not nice, but ghosting candidates also isn't nice imho)