Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads(arstechnica.com)
arstechnica.com
Report: Best Buy tells HP to take back its TouchPads
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/08/best-buy-wants-to-give-up-on-hp-touchpad-has-sold-fewer-than-25000-units.ars?comments=1#comments-bar
14 comments
Amazingly, webOS/palm got a do-over, in the form of HP buying them.
"We're too small to compete" was the Palm motto towards the end, and HP buying them was seen by the faithful as a way of "getting it right" - more money and resources behind them, they'll be able to really get webOS out there.
And they did the exact same stuff they'd done two years earlier.
Announce and briefly demo a product at start of the year? Check
Delay getting SDK to developers? Check
Ship poor hardware with buggy software to retailers later than anticipated? Check
WHAT THE HELL? The entire webOS unit got a do-over, and still hosed it, with the budget/muscle of one of the largest companies behind it. Of course, that doesn't mean HP actually was really supporting it as much as people expected.
The TouchPad (and webOS stuff in general under HP) seems to have been treated about the same as every other model of HP laptop/desktop rollout they do. Just another SKU on the balance sheet, it'll be on the shelf for a few months, then retired and shifted to overseas support.
Amazingly infuriating to watch company after company claim to want to be a player in the mobile/tablet space, and fail continuously against Apple. It's far less that Apple's doing so much right, but everyone else keeps getting it so wrong, even with successful competitors to copy (this isn't revolutionary groundbreaking stuff any more, launching a tablet).
"We're too small to compete" was the Palm motto towards the end, and HP buying them was seen by the faithful as a way of "getting it right" - more money and resources behind them, they'll be able to really get webOS out there.
And they did the exact same stuff they'd done two years earlier.
Announce and briefly demo a product at start of the year? Check
Delay getting SDK to developers? Check
Ship poor hardware with buggy software to retailers later than anticipated? Check
WHAT THE HELL? The entire webOS unit got a do-over, and still hosed it, with the budget/muscle of one of the largest companies behind it. Of course, that doesn't mean HP actually was really supporting it as much as people expected.
The TouchPad (and webOS stuff in general under HP) seems to have been treated about the same as every other model of HP laptop/desktop rollout they do. Just another SKU on the balance sheet, it'll be on the shelf for a few months, then retired and shifted to overseas support.
Amazingly infuriating to watch company after company claim to want to be a player in the mobile/tablet space, and fail continuously against Apple. It's far less that Apple's doing so much right, but everyone else keeps getting it so wrong, even with successful competitors to copy (this isn't revolutionary groundbreaking stuff any more, launching a tablet).
I find it amazing that people haven't learned the Apple lesson yet. Apple is doing well specifically because it doesn't release a product until it's perfect. They put a lot of thought and effort into every aspect of every device.
Why is it that companies like HP think that getting it out the door is more important that putting out a polished product? Just look at the white iPhone 4. Apple wouldn't release it until it was perfect, despite the fact that people were knocking down the door begging for it.
I've never owned an Apple product, but if I were going to get a tablet it would be an iPad. Everything else is just a cheap imitation and no one has proven to be anything other than that. I was really hoping the TouchPad would be the one device that could finally compete on polish and style with the iPad.
Why is it that companies like HP think that getting it out the door is more important that putting out a polished product? Just look at the white iPhone 4. Apple wouldn't release it until it was perfect, despite the fact that people were knocking down the door begging for it.
I've never owned an Apple product, but if I were going to get a tablet it would be an iPad. Everything else is just a cheap imitation and no one has proven to be anything other than that. I was really hoping the TouchPad would be the one device that could finally compete on polish and style with the iPad.
I'd say Apple don't entirely - ipad 1 vs ipad 2. They could've waited another 6-9 months for a camera (and the ipad2 camera really isn't all that hot anyway). Apple doesn't put out gold 100% of the time.
A lot of people waited on ipad 1 for v2 because of the things it didn't have (camera, etc) But... perhaps closer to your point, what the ipad v1 did, it did very well. Better to leave a feature out altogether than do it half-baked.
I've been wanting a webOS device for a couple years, but I'm not going to pay the premium for it when I know out of the box it'll be less useful to me than the ipad these days (volume/variety of apps, third party products/etc).
I said this a couple times before - a touchpad - 7 or 10" - at $249 or $299 would KILL. HP could take the money from lame commercials and airport branding and magazine ads and such, apply it towards subsidizing cheap tablets, and own second place, possibly even the tablet first place in certain verticals. But they keep approaching this with marketing ideas that pretend that the iPad is 'just another product in the marketplace'. It's not. It created a marketplace. It defines the marketplace. So... quit trying to play in that market, and define your own.
A lot of people waited on ipad 1 for v2 because of the things it didn't have (camera, etc) But... perhaps closer to your point, what the ipad v1 did, it did very well. Better to leave a feature out altogether than do it half-baked.
I've been wanting a webOS device for a couple years, but I'm not going to pay the premium for it when I know out of the box it'll be less useful to me than the ipad these days (volume/variety of apps, third party products/etc).
I said this a couple times before - a touchpad - 7 or 10" - at $249 or $299 would KILL. HP could take the money from lame commercials and airport branding and magazine ads and such, apply it towards subsidizing cheap tablets, and own second place, possibly even the tablet first place in certain verticals. But they keep approaching this with marketing ideas that pretend that the iPad is 'just another product in the marketplace'. It's not. It created a marketplace. It defines the marketplace. So... quit trying to play in that market, and define your own.
My view is entirely the opposite - I'm amazed at how well Apple nailed the first iPad. Aside from processing power (which is really just a factor of time), the only improvement on the iPad 2 was a camera.
I concur. The first iPad was ridiculously well done in my opinion. However, one should remember that it was essentially the same software on the iPhone and iPod Touch.
Consider the folders thing. Or background tasks. Apple usually releases things that work. I'm shocked how rare this is.
Consider the folders thing. Or background tasks. Apple usually releases things that work. I'm shocked how rare this is.
the ipad 1 has a hole in the frame that fits a camera (http://www.ipadforums.net/ipad-hacking/3730-ipad-has-room-ca...) they could probably have shipped it at launch, but maybe they knew they'd have to hold something back for ipad2.
Or perhaps the software side (FaceTime, iMovie) for the iPad wasn't ready yet, and they didn't want to release a half-baked solution; or it could simply be that the performance of the solution on iPad 1 hardware was unsatisfactory.
Maybe they are reading too much Hacker News and the "ship ship ship" we preach over here. I know I have heard some companies thinking like that without realising it's not the best strategy for every company.
I don't think Apple really does anything different than what HN preaches. The best way to do "ship ship ship" well is to cut your feature set to the absolute bone, even if that means your initial launch is with just one single feature, as long as that one is polished enough and works well.
This is basically Apple's modus operandi; they'll take the hits from the nerds on not having every feature under the sun in return for being able to entice people with a small, well chosen set of features that "just work".
The HP's, Acer's et al are stuck in the mindset that they simultaneously need to shoe-horn in every idea they can think of while "ship ship ship"ing by throwing the product out the door as an unfocused, half-baked mess.
Aggressive curation of your feature set is a powerful strategy for nearly every company.
This is basically Apple's modus operandi; they'll take the hits from the nerds on not having every feature under the sun in return for being able to entice people with a small, well chosen set of features that "just work".
The HP's, Acer's et al are stuck in the mindset that they simultaneously need to shoe-horn in every idea they can think of while "ship ship ship"ing by throwing the product out the door as an unfocused, half-baked mess.
Aggressive curation of your feature set is a powerful strategy for nearly every company.
It's a good observation. So many web startups think "ship early!" works for everything, and it doesn't. Certainly not hardware. Yes, for a website, where you can change the system in 5 minutes if you find a small mistake, or you can reindex a db and fix perf issues - yes, get it out there and validate and iterate. Hardware is a totally different beast.
There are many reasons why you shouldn't just ship and with tablets like the TouchPad there are at least two good reasons: the hardware (for the reasons you said) and the price (which is expensive for something that is not unique or particular innovative).
You can keep the features to a low though, just make sure they are tight. Like the Kindle.
You can keep the features to a low though, just make sure they are tight. Like the Kindle.
Software and hardware are totally different ballgames. With software, if you ship and you find that your product needs major changes, you iterate and you're not really out of anything.
Ship bad hardware? Well, you end up with things like partners demanding you take back a quarter of a million unsold units.
Ship bad hardware? Well, you end up with things like partners demanding you take back a quarter of a million unsold units.
Amazingly infuriating to watch company after company claim to want to be a player in the mobile/tablet space, and fail continuously against Apple. It's far less that Apple's doing so much right, but everyone else keeps getting it so wrong, even with successful competitors to copy (this isn't revolutionary groundbreaking stuff any more, launching a tablet).
It isn't easy to make a successful tablet. Apple made it look easy, but it really isn't.
Apple came into the tablet market with:
- A core OS that's had over 20 years of work put into it.
- A touch UI layer with five years of development.
- A large developer ecosystem primed and ready to start making software for the new platform.
- A worldwide online software store with a gigantic existing customer base. (Do not estimate the difficulty of making it possible for developers anywhere in the world to sell software to customers anywhere in the world without forcing anyone to jump through the hoops of international tax law!)
- An online media store selling music, movies, and TV shows.
- A brand new ebook store.
- A worldwide network of physical stores to demo and sell the new devices.
You can't build that overnight. Apple has spent over a decade making smart decisions and putting themselves into the position where they are today.
It isn't easy to make a successful tablet. Apple made it look easy, but it really isn't.
Apple came into the tablet market with:
- A core OS that's had over 20 years of work put into it.
- A touch UI layer with five years of development.
- A large developer ecosystem primed and ready to start making software for the new platform.
- A worldwide online software store with a gigantic existing customer base. (Do not estimate the difficulty of making it possible for developers anywhere in the world to sell software to customers anywhere in the world without forcing anyone to jump through the hoops of international tax law!)
- An online media store selling music, movies, and TV shows.
- A brand new ebook store.
- A worldwide network of physical stores to demo and sell the new devices.
You can't build that overnight. Apple has spent over a decade making smart decisions and putting themselves into the position where they are today.
Probably sounded like I was trivializing it, and I 100% agree, the Apple ecosystem (stores, accessories, etc) all help support new products (ipad, etc).
That said, there's been some staggeringly dumb things the webOS team has done with respect to getting stuff out to developers (like, you know, functioning handsets, SDKs, updates, information). Apple can afford to be tightlipped about this sort of stuff, but others can't. Developers will be the earlyvangelists for new products if companies will let them be. That means supporting them, and Palm and then HP both dillydallyed around way too long in both cases. I say this as someone who'd signed up for the SDK for the original webOS launch, and waited, and waited, and waited, then was rather disappointed with what was eventually released.
Yes, Apple does have a lot of stuff in place, but what is stopping other companies from doing this? It won't be overnight, sure. It takes a long term vision, and perhaps Apple really is the only large company that can execute on this. I don't see HP, Dell, Lenovo or any other PC/electronics company having even a medium term vision, let alone a long term one, when it comes to consumer electronics and computing.
MAYBE Google could fill this? Maybe. But really only if they get in to the hardware and retail game. Apple controls the hardware and software and sales channel, and can create a strong, consistent and cohesive experience. No one else can do this - the hardware guys point the fingers at licensed software, retail chains push whatever they get a big check for, etc.
So, yes, Apple makes it look easy, and it's not, but it's certainly possible. Year after year we see lackluster 'me too' stuff from companies that are only addressing one portion of the end-user experience. Can MS ever get in to this game? Not without some serious long term vision from the top, a restructuring of their business, and a willingness to piss off some long-term partners. I don't see it happening...
That said, there's been some staggeringly dumb things the webOS team has done with respect to getting stuff out to developers (like, you know, functioning handsets, SDKs, updates, information). Apple can afford to be tightlipped about this sort of stuff, but others can't. Developers will be the earlyvangelists for new products if companies will let them be. That means supporting them, and Palm and then HP both dillydallyed around way too long in both cases. I say this as someone who'd signed up for the SDK for the original webOS launch, and waited, and waited, and waited, then was rather disappointed with what was eventually released.
Yes, Apple does have a lot of stuff in place, but what is stopping other companies from doing this? It won't be overnight, sure. It takes a long term vision, and perhaps Apple really is the only large company that can execute on this. I don't see HP, Dell, Lenovo or any other PC/electronics company having even a medium term vision, let alone a long term one, when it comes to consumer electronics and computing.
MAYBE Google could fill this? Maybe. But really only if they get in to the hardware and retail game. Apple controls the hardware and software and sales channel, and can create a strong, consistent and cohesive experience. No one else can do this - the hardware guys point the fingers at licensed software, retail chains push whatever they get a big check for, etc.
So, yes, Apple makes it look easy, and it's not, but it's certainly possible. Year after year we see lackluster 'me too' stuff from companies that are only addressing one portion of the end-user experience. Can MS ever get in to this game? Not without some serious long term vision from the top, a restructuring of their business, and a willingness to piss off some long-term partners. I don't see it happening...
webOS is built on Linux, "a core OS that's had over 20 years of work put into it."
That touch UI still can't get notifications and multitasking right.
That touch UI still can't get notifications and multitasking right.
Now sudddenly Nokia doesn't look too dumb right? Replace HP with nokia and webos with symbian and this could a story we'd be reading sometime in future.
Unfortunately, most big corporations still judge progress by scheduling and budgeting performance. Did we meet the schedule? Yes! Did we stay under budget? Yes! This is a paper victory.
Nobody asks "is the product ready to ship to customers?".
Nobody asks "is the product ready to ship to customers?".
I think the problem is that people still don't care about or want tablet computers; they care about and want iPads. All the companies jumping on the tablet bandwagon forgot what happened to 95% of the mp3 players that sprang up to compete with the iPod.
> people still don't care about or want tablet computers; they care about and want iPads
I've seen this many times when I try to explain to normal people what I do for a living. When I explain we create tablet apps, I get blank stares.
If I say we create iPad apps, they reply "oh I saw the commercial for those".
iPads are mainstream. Tablets in general, not so much.
I've seen this many times when I try to explain to normal people what I do for a living. When I explain we create tablet apps, I get blank stares.
If I say we create iPad apps, they reply "oh I saw the commercial for those".
iPads are mainstream. Tablets in general, not so much.
Couldn't that be a symptom of other tablets not being competitive, rather than the cause?
neuroelectronic 59 minutes ago | link [dead]
yes and no. Going back to the MP3 analogy, their were many MP3 players that were much better deals on paper; a fraction of the cost for more memory. But they didn't have a scroll wheel or iTunes, so consumers found them to be cheap knock-offs.
neuroelectronic: it looks like your posts are auto-dead. Posting as a sibling comment since there's no contact info in your profile.
yes and no. Going back to the MP3 analogy, their were many MP3 players that were much better deals on paper; a fraction of the cost for more memory. But they didn't have a scroll wheel or iTunes, so consumers found them to be cheap knock-offs.
neuroelectronic: it looks like your posts are auto-dead. Posting as a sibling comment since there's no contact info in your profile.
That's not really a 'problem' though if people understand what they want. What it really means is that HP needs to step up their game on all fronts to make a product and compel people to buy it.
I mean, I tried the TouchPad. It's good in a lot of ways but mediocre in other ways. It's a lot like how the G1 launched. Die-hards bought it, the tech-savvy liked it but weren't 'flocking' to it, and the average consumer just thought of it as another electronic device. HP needs something like a 'Droid' campaign to really spark interest in their products. You have to make it appear cool. Unfortunately, HP has never been able to do that and they're only just learning about the cool-factor with Beats by Dre.
I mean, I tried the TouchPad. It's good in a lot of ways but mediocre in other ways. It's a lot like how the G1 launched. Die-hards bought it, the tech-savvy liked it but weren't 'flocking' to it, and the average consumer just thought of it as another electronic device. HP needs something like a 'Droid' campaign to really spark interest in their products. You have to make it appear cool. Unfortunately, HP has never been able to do that and they're only just learning about the cool-factor with Beats by Dre.
A pretty significant piece of Android/Droid's success that you don't mention is that the Droid launched on the biggest U.S. network essentially without a competitor. If you wanted a phone with a decent browser on Verizon (and Sprint/TMo) in 2009/2010, it was Android or nothing. That's a luxury none of Apple's competitors have now.
There are also people like me -- I switched to Verizon specifically to get the first Droid. (Granted I was on Virgin before...)
>HP needs something like a 'Droid' campaign to really spark interest in their products.
I see a lot of Touchpad, Playbook and Xoom ads on TV. Atleast the Xoom ones seem to be on the level of the Droid ads(it's Motorola again, of course). The ads seem ok and cool but if the current sales figures are something to go by, don't seem to be very effective. As I said in another comment, it's easier to get people to buy a phone when their old ones gets too old or when the contract expires but it's hard to push people to a completely new kind of device where the use case is harder for the average consumer to see.
I see a lot of Touchpad, Playbook and Xoom ads on TV. Atleast the Xoom ones seem to be on the level of the Droid ads(it's Motorola again, of course). The ads seem ok and cool but if the current sales figures are something to go by, don't seem to be very effective. As I said in another comment, it's easier to get people to buy a phone when their old ones gets too old or when the contract expires but it's hard to push people to a completely new kind of device where the use case is harder for the average consumer to see.
The Xoom ads I've seen are fairly baffling, full of robots and weird spaceship thingies. In contrast, the iPad ads almost seem like anti-marketing. Look, here's what the product looks like! Look, here's what the apps do! Of course they're actually very cunningly designed (it's difficult to get simple things done that well) but they at least let you visualize what the iPad is and what it's for, which is more than I can say for the Xoom.
The way I see it is that Apple's commercials and most of the Droid commercials were compelling, head-turners. They were much more interesting. Whenever either of those commercials played, I wanted to watch them. I can't say the same thing of the TouchPad, Playbook, or Xoom ads. This quality of marketing were a part of what made the Droid and iProducts so successful.
- The Xoom and Droid commercials are nothing but derivative, dystopian futurist fluff, and the Verizon Android (read: non-Droid) commercials involving their retail outlets are seriously contrived crap speaking to easily-swayed lowest-common denominators in the crowd.
- The Touchpad's commercials are boring and tell me nothing about the device. Like others are saying, they tell me jack crap about the device, and the Russell Brand commercials that actually do? They might not be my tea, but at least they have some personality (comedic value debated). Haven't seen them on TV. Brilliant strategy there, HP!
- Apple's commercials are so well-received that rolling a commercial out based on a feature (see: Facetime) can generate sales because they know just who to market to and, by focusing on one device per form factor, have a history of trusted quality through said long-term focus on each of them. People actually know the models as opposed to the ton of "ManufacturerName Droidbot AspirationalPhraseHere" models being cranked out. They know the history. And, well, Apple's products "Just work" 99% of the time.
Disclosure: I own an Android tablet and an HP Touchpad. Fanboys amuse me.
- The Touchpad's commercials are boring and tell me nothing about the device. Like others are saying, they tell me jack crap about the device, and the Russell Brand commercials that actually do? They might not be my tea, but at least they have some personality (comedic value debated). Haven't seen them on TV. Brilliant strategy there, HP!
- Apple's commercials are so well-received that rolling a commercial out based on a feature (see: Facetime) can generate sales because they know just who to market to and, by focusing on one device per form factor, have a history of trusted quality through said long-term focus on each of them. People actually know the models as opposed to the ton of "ManufacturerName Droidbot AspirationalPhraseHere" models being cranked out. They know the history. And, well, Apple's products "Just work" 99% of the time.
Disclosure: I own an Android tablet and an HP Touchpad. Fanboys amuse me.
Yes, the tablet market is very different from phones. Everyone needs a phone and when their contract expires, many of go to the carrier store and get the one they like, which in some cases, is the latest Android phone that people remember seeing in the Droid or Evo commercials on TV.
With tablets, it's very different, many people just don't see the need for one yet. While the iPad is shipping very well, much of that growth would be from iPhone and word-of-mouth publicity. Then there's the whole issue of apps and 3rd party support/corporate support.
While MS dissed tablets [1], with Windows 8 they're coming out with a strategy to make tablets of all flavors with a fresh UI, including x86 ones with backward compatibility. Let whether that can make a dent in the market.
[1] http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/microsoft-exec-questions...
With tablets, it's very different, many people just don't see the need for one yet. While the iPad is shipping very well, much of that growth would be from iPhone and word-of-mouth publicity. Then there's the whole issue of apps and 3rd party support/corporate support.
While MS dissed tablets [1], with Windows 8 they're coming out with a strategy to make tablets of all flavors with a fresh UI, including x86 ones with backward compatibility. Let whether that can make a dent in the market.
[1] http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/microsoft-exec-questions...
Microsoft dissed tablets because they were not winning at it. Remember they were the first ones to bring tablets to the market. They screwed up on the form factor and the overall experience though.
If tapping an icon on a home screen takes the tablet a fraction of a second just to provide visual feedback for that, I'm sorry, but this is simply not a good tablet. Not anymore, not with iPad in the picture.
If you apply the 3.0.2 patch (an over the air update), it resolves most of the performance issues with webOS on the tablet. Unfortunately all of the online reviews were done using 3.0, so the misconception that webOS on the Touchpad = slow has stuck.
I saw TouchPad at BestBuy last night and it was sluggish as hell. I don't really care if it had a patch applied or not. They had exactly one chance to make a great first impression and they failed. We can point finger at whoever, but what I saw pretty much explains why TouchPad did not gather interest with BestBuy buyers.
This is a known issue to HP. It really stinks. The demo units aren't even using 3.0, they're using a special demo build.
I understand the reasoning behind this (make the demos as cool as possible!) but I think you'd run a serious risk of high returns - if you take it home and it doesn't run as well as the one in the store, you're going to mess with it for a few days, get increasingly frustrated and eventually take it back.
It's not a misconception. If I use webOS on a touchpad - as it comes out of the box - it's slow.
There were 'misconceptions' that Java was slow too. And Java was slow. And still is in some use cases. But somehow that's the fault of the user, not the technology?
There were 'misconceptions' that Java was slow too. And Java was slow. And still is in some use cases. But somehow that's the fault of the user, not the technology?
webOS out of the box will auto-update itself over the air to 3.0.2. It just wasn't available when the reviews were written. If I read a review now, it's based on outdated information.
They should've waited until 3.0.2 was available before sending the devices out to reviewers.
Frankly, if you're gonna have error for reviewers, I'd put in as many cheap, unmaintainable perf hacks as I could.
Frankly, if you're gonna have error for reviewers, I'd put in as many cheap, unmaintainable perf hacks as I could.
Yes I totally agree, only one chance to make a first impression and all that.
That's like saying "sorry I didn't brush my teeth before our first date, but I brushed them now! Tonight at 5? ... hello?"
This is why you don't release a broken product hoping to fix it later.
Is there something interesting in the comments to the original article? The link seems to take you right to the comments (at least on a mobile device), the actual arstechnia post is at:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/08/best-buy-wants-t...
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/08/best-buy-wants-t...
I played with a Nook Color at B&N a couple of days ago. If I were to buy a tablet, that's the one I'd buy. It's dirt cheap ($249), seems reasonably fast, and can be hacked into a real Android tablet (not a reasonable thing for a normal consumer to do, but it wouldn't be a problem for me). But, the things I could think of to use it for, I already have a Kindle and a Nexus One and a netbook for...so, I opted not to add more electronics crap to my very small house. Maybe the next generation Nook Color will convince me that a tablet is something I need/want.
My point is that the price of the HP was obviously wrong. It's not an Apple product...people don't expect to pay Apple prices. There's an assumption (right or wrong) that Apple imposes a stiff Apple tax on every product they sell, so I expect any non-Apple product to be much cheaper and have better specs. When that expectation is not met, I feel like the non-Apple product is over-priced. Apparently the TouchPad also sucks, while the iPad is apparently awesome, which makes the TouchPad an even harder sell.
My point is that the price of the HP was obviously wrong. It's not an Apple product...people don't expect to pay Apple prices. There's an assumption (right or wrong) that Apple imposes a stiff Apple tax on every product they sell, so I expect any non-Apple product to be much cheaper and have better specs. When that expectation is not met, I feel like the non-Apple product is over-priced. Apparently the TouchPad also sucks, while the iPad is apparently awesome, which makes the TouchPad an even harder sell.
That's a really good case for the mindset of a hacker. Buy a cheaper product that is hackable and customize the experience. With the current tablet wars, iPad is winning since it doesn't require hacking to achieve a high standard of features, performance, and user experience. This aligns with mainstream customers which is the giant demographic every company is trying to obtain.
Lots of discussion about this over on Precental.net about this today: http://www.precentral.net/hp-touchpad-selling-poorly-best-bu...
Shipping too soon and getting lukewarm reviews for it may have been a factor here, but I think the biggest one is in marketing: HP has never had a convincing story for the TouchPad.
The TouchPad campaign still has yet to make a solid case for choosing WebOS over iOS (or even Android). WebOS is a more flexible environment than iOS, and it's more consistent and seamless than Android; why can't HP marketing figure out how to vocalize that?
The TouchPad campaign still has yet to make a solid case for choosing WebOS over iOS (or even Android). WebOS is a more flexible environment than iOS, and it's more consistent and seamless than Android; why can't HP marketing figure out how to vocalize that?
I looked at the Touchpad at the local Best Buy. I was interested in buying one, but I was ultimately disappointed after using it for a bit. Unlike the iPad, which looks and feels like it was designed by a few people that might actually want to use it themselves, the TouchPad looks and feels like it was designed by committee.
I think the numbers are suspect. And note that the source is anonymous so take things with a grain of salt.
Yep they are very suspect, and just so happen to be right on the verge of HP publishing their revenue figures, so may be some market shenanigans at play.
I guess we'll know if HP only talks about shipped unit and not sold, or activated, units.
If the TouchPad, with all its geek cred, is only able to move 25,000 units, then it really makes me wonder how well the other tablets are doing. I went to Best Buy (note: this is Canada) the other day and they had a huge number of tablets in their tablet section. The TouchPad, Xoom, Acer's Iconia, the Galaxy Tab, and various Windows 7-based tablets. If the TouchPad has only been able to move that many units, then there's no way that Best Buy can be happy with any of its other customers. While I see a lot of people playing around with the tablets, very few people are buying them regardless of brand (Apple excluded, obviously).
I'd loved to have played with some of them at my local store, but as is the case with almost most consumer PC stuff, the units are not on.
The Apple display section at our local Best Buys are always loaded with functioning units that are open for people to explore - not locked down with crappy "BUY GEEK SQUAD SERVICE!" screen savers.
The table with all the tablets at multiple Best Buy stores I've been in to recently are all filled with multiple tablets that are just sitting there with black screens. Not plugged in, not running on batteries, not in demo mode. Just... sitting there.
If Best Buy sold TVs like they sell tablets, they'd have 3 LG units running full color shows in HD with surround sound, and 85 empty screens just hanging on the wall, then they'd be sending all the TVs back to Vizio, Mitsubishi, Sony, etc, complaining that they're not selling.
The Apple display section at our local Best Buys are always loaded with functioning units that are open for people to explore - not locked down with crappy "BUY GEEK SQUAD SERVICE!" screen savers.
The table with all the tablets at multiple Best Buy stores I've been in to recently are all filled with multiple tablets that are just sitting there with black screens. Not plugged in, not running on batteries, not in demo mode. Just... sitting there.
If Best Buy sold TVs like they sell tablets, they'd have 3 LG units running full color shows in HD with surround sound, and 85 empty screens just hanging on the wall, then they'd be sending all the TVs back to Vizio, Mitsubishi, Sony, etc, complaining that they're not selling.
Everything you said is dead on, and makes me cringe when I think about the past. In the 90's and early 00's, the same would have been true of the Macintosh computers at the big box stores. Perhaps HP needs to put the same effort they put in promoting their PC line into their WebOS line. Microsoft's marketing and placement dollars are not available for their current endeavors.
Agreed. It's the same thing with the way they sell laptops or phones. Why leave dumb units lying around? Why would anyone ever buy a device that they haven't tried? Best Buy (as well as other stores) need to have well-functioning devices turned on and available for customers to try.
Additionally, they need their employees to go around and reset the devices to ensure a proper functioning system instead of the ones bogged down by apps/content downloaded by random kids onto the device.
Additionally, they need their employees to go around and reset the devices to ensure a proper functioning system instead of the ones bogged down by apps/content downloaded by random kids onto the device.
Even going to Best Buy to try a unit does next to nothing. Pretty much everything that they sell has a flat battery, is stuck on a screen or suffering some other issue.
Except of course for the Apple display. All working. All looking good. All the time.
Except of course for the Apple display. All working. All looking good. All the time.
You gotta pay to play.
Retailers always demand a fee from the manufacturer before they provide special displays like the Apple section at BB. The contract likely specifies that BB employees will keep Apple's products charged up and functional at all times. This is only possible because Apple's products command high margins that can easily cover the marketing fees.
Apple's tablet competitors obviously don't have that level of relationship. I've yet to see so much as an end cap for an Android tablet.
Retailers always demand a fee from the manufacturer before they provide special displays like the Apple section at BB. The contract likely specifies that BB employees will keep Apple's products charged up and functional at all times. This is only possible because Apple's products command high margins that can easily cover the marketing fees.
Apple's tablet competitors obviously don't have that level of relationship. I've yet to see so much as an end cap for an Android tablet.
The TouchPad didn't pass my two usability tests for tablets. I opened a book and tried to lookup the definition of a word. I think it was the TouchPad that opened a browser window and sent me to a Google search for the word's definition. I also opened two tabs for the browser. I couldn't figure out how to close a tab. If it doesn't pass these two simple tests then it's not worth buying.
The iPad is the only tablet that passes both tests in terms of performing the tasks easily.
The iPad is the only tablet that passes both tests in terms of performing the tasks easily.
Hmmm, the Touchpad doesn’t have tabs in its browser, it opens up a new browser card which is an entirely different experience, so I’m not sure how you could have carried out this test?
I think they should take them back, don't get me wrong, but who's the sales manager for best buy that decided these would be a good buy, and that they could compete with the iPad in price when they can't even come close in quality or performance?
In retail, these folks are called buyers.
Best Buy has plenty of long-term relationships with manufacturers. Any time you see fancy merchandising in the store, say an endcap with fancy graphics pimping the latest Whirlpool front loading washer, it's because the manufacturer has paid for that positioning.
So it's entirely possible that HP made a merchandising deal with Best Buy to promote their new product – and that the terms for the deal included some sort of buy back provision to mitigate the store's risk. Even absent such a provision, HP needs retail distribution channels for their business to work. It's in their interest to keep their partners happy and not leave them holding the bag on an experimental flop of a product.
Best Buy has plenty of long-term relationships with manufacturers. Any time you see fancy merchandising in the store, say an endcap with fancy graphics pimping the latest Whirlpool front loading washer, it's because the manufacturer has paid for that positioning.
So it's entirely possible that HP made a merchandising deal with Best Buy to promote their new product – and that the terms for the deal included some sort of buy back provision to mitigate the store's risk. Even absent such a provision, HP needs retail distribution channels for their business to work. It's in their interest to keep their partners happy and not leave them holding the bag on an experimental flop of a product.
I think ten years from now we will look back at this time period and be baffled by the incredible amount and variety of complete junk that was dumped on the market to try and capitalize on the "tablet craze".
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
Cambrian explosion.
I don't know how everyone else here feels about it but I have yet to see a TouchPad commercial that makes me want one. I think Apple has done a lot of good for themselves in the way they advertise the iPad.
Don't ship broken hardware.
I have a tech journalist friend who knew I was extremely interested in the TouchPad prior to launch, and let me play with his review unit for a bit. I was ready to drop $500 on one at launch, and walked away crushingly disappointed. The software clearly wasn't ready and with the product launch only a few days off, it was clear that HP was pushing this thing out the door too soon.
Here's the thing - I could tell that the problems were software-related and could be fixed by HP down the road. But HP went from a willing customer with $500 cash in hand, to one that two months later says "eh, maybe I'll pick one up if I catch one of those $350 sales." And I'm sure it's cost them sales since my tl;dr when people ask me about it is "absolutely brilliant interface, awful performance. I wouldn't buy one yet."
If HP had left the TouchPad in the incubator another couple of months and sorted out the performance issues before kicking the thing out the door, the reception would have been very different. I really, really wanted to like the TouchPad, and HP blew it.
You don't get do-overs on first impressions. Apple gets that. If the rest of their competition would figure this out and push out complete products rather than rush them out on an arbitrary time scale, Apple would be a bit less dominant than they are now.