Show HN: My WWDC-inspired project. A Markdown editor for Lion(kswizz.com)
kswizz.com
Show HN: My WWDC-inspired project. A Markdown editor for Lion
http://kswizz.com/post/8624456381/macchiato
15 comments
Hey cool. Someone else actually knows about My Markdown Editor! I wrote #2. It's got some issues, and according to some feedback, it doesn't work on Lion (I haven't updated yet, so I can't test.)
As for licence, I should really add a note to that page. I guess BSD/MIT will do. Or GPL if you so desire :)
As for licence, I should really add a note to that page. I guess BSD/MIT will do. Or GPL if you so desire :)
> The internals of the app uses NSRegularExpression
I tried to implement my version of this idea[1] with regular expressions too, using OgreKit. I ran into all sorts of problems with corner cases, especially with nesting of block-level elements (lists/blockquotes/code). I wanted to switch over to a parser-based implementation, but at the time all the existing parsers were setup to emit HTML, so getting character-offsets out of the parser wasn't possible without hacking the parser to death.
There's been some good discussion on the Markdown list[2] recently about these sorts of things, a really interesting example is PEG Markdown Highlight[3], which is exactly what I wanted to do with my app, but I was too busy (read: lazy) to get around to.
[1]: http://keshiki.net/markdown-editor/
[2]: http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss
[3]: Project: http://hasseg.org/peg-markdown-highlight/ Discussion: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/2011-June...
I tried to implement my version of this idea[1] with regular expressions too, using OgreKit. I ran into all sorts of problems with corner cases, especially with nesting of block-level elements (lists/blockquotes/code). I wanted to switch over to a parser-based implementation, but at the time all the existing parsers were setup to emit HTML, so getting character-offsets out of the parser wasn't possible without hacking the parser to death.
There's been some good discussion on the Markdown list[2] recently about these sorts of things, a really interesting example is PEG Markdown Highlight[3], which is exactly what I wanted to do with my app, but I was too busy (read: lazy) to get around to.
[1]: http://keshiki.net/markdown-editor/
[2]: http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss
[3]: Project: http://hasseg.org/peg-markdown-highlight/ Discussion: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/2011-June...
> I wanted to switch over to a parser-based implementation, but at the time all the existing parsers were setup to emit HTML, so getting character-offsets out of the parser wasn't possible without hacking the parser to death.
You might want to try libupskirt [1], library github uses.
[1] http://fossil.instinctive.eu/libupskirt/index
You might want to try libupskirt [1], library github uses.
[1] http://fossil.instinctive.eu/libupskirt/index
Cool, thanks. I haven't looked deeply into it, but from a quick glance it seems to want to transform the input.
For my use case I need a parse tree, with specific byte (well, character really) offsets. For example, I need to know where the link started, not that there is now a a link with text T and href H.
My program (and Macchiato I assume) doesn't actually transform the source to an output format, we add attributes to the source text (similar to RTF).
For my use case I need a parse tree, with specific byte (well, character really) offsets. For example, I need to know where the link started, not that there is now a a link with text T and href H.
My program (and Macchiato I assume) doesn't actually transform the source to an output format, we add attributes to the source text (similar to RTF).
Woah, this made front-page!
I realize the price is kind of prohibitive to just check out. I wish the App Store would let me give a massive discount coupon for HN readers. Turns out that for the niche market I'm targeting, this is just about the right price, though.
I'm working on making a downloadable trial version. However, for the time being I have some extra promo codes I can give out. First come first served:
H4JTKTFN3FHL RR6AA6696WJK 9F4NFPN3LEFJ F36LEP9T7JMH NTNWAFJ6K9A6 HXRA4TT6WWFN H4HEEWXHXNEF 3RMYERRJXKWW 64AK4K67XPJ3 LPPTJT9PKKR7
I'm open to all feedback! Thanks!
I realize the price is kind of prohibitive to just check out. I wish the App Store would let me give a massive discount coupon for HN readers. Turns out that for the niche market I'm targeting, this is just about the right price, though.
I'm working on making a downloadable trial version. However, for the time being I have some extra promo codes I can give out. First come first served:
H4JTKTFN3FHL RR6AA6696WJK 9F4NFPN3LEFJ F36LEP9T7JMH NTNWAFJ6K9A6 HXRA4TT6WWFN H4HEEWXHXNEF 3RMYERRJXKWW 64AK4K67XPJ3 LPPTJT9PKKR7
I'm open to all feedback! Thanks!
Woot I got one of them!
I'm composing this reply inside of Macchiato. Honestly, I think it's a pretty decent idea, although it might have a hard time to displace Vim, which I alway have tend to have open.
Something that it might easily displace is composing my blog posts, the fact that fullscreen mode knocks out my secondary monitor is probably a good idea, and keeps me focused on the task on hand—writing the blog posts.
On that note, I've switched to full screen. The animation to full screen wasn't the smoothest, and doesn't have the same feel that Apple applications scale up. In addition, while the slight gradient works in a small window, blowing that up to the fullscreen doesn't work very well, and I feel like I looking straight into the middle of the sun.
I realize that you're attempting to be fairly minimalist with your application, but I think that a less-strain theme for fullscreen would be a very good improvement.
I've noticed that while backspacing, especially when typing in a blockquote, the cursor doesn't line up with text you're editing. Small display issue, no biggie.
Another thing that I would think very cool for fullscreen writing applications is to display text with TeX-like text justification, so you don't end up with very staggered paragraphs in the middle of your screen. Probably well outside the scope of your application, but thought for other HN-ers.
I think that's all feedback I can come up with right now. I'll continue to try out the app, and look forward to what updates you have up your sleeve.
EDIT #1: Fixing some grammar. Trying to get the elements right ;)
EDIT #2: Apparently I can't make new comments anymore. Since I comment rarely, I assume this was some change as part of HN's vote-less comments change. May I make a theme request? Yes? Great! I really like the Solarized[1] theme, and think it would be a great addition.
In addition, I think callahad had a really great review on this same thread. I agree with #5 in particular, being able to switch off the preview, should I come about the need, would be really nice, mostly for the same reason callahad mentions. And #7, too.
One last agreement with callahad:
> Hopefully this is helpful and not discouraging! I didn't want to take the promo code without leaving you with some feedback.
[1]: http://ethanschoonover.com/solarized
I'm composing this reply inside of Macchiato. Honestly, I think it's a pretty decent idea, although it might have a hard time to displace Vim, which I alway have tend to have open.
Something that it might easily displace is composing my blog posts, the fact that fullscreen mode knocks out my secondary monitor is probably a good idea, and keeps me focused on the task on hand—writing the blog posts.
On that note, I've switched to full screen. The animation to full screen wasn't the smoothest, and doesn't have the same feel that Apple applications scale up. In addition, while the slight gradient works in a small window, blowing that up to the fullscreen doesn't work very well, and I feel like I looking straight into the middle of the sun.
I realize that you're attempting to be fairly minimalist with your application, but I think that a less-strain theme for fullscreen would be a very good improvement.
I've noticed that while backspacing, especially when typing in a blockquote, the cursor doesn't line up with text you're editing. Small display issue, no biggie.
Another thing that I would think very cool for fullscreen writing applications is to display text with TeX-like text justification, so you don't end up with very staggered paragraphs in the middle of your screen. Probably well outside the scope of your application, but thought for other HN-ers.
I think that's all feedback I can come up with right now. I'll continue to try out the app, and look forward to what updates you have up your sleeve.
EDIT #1: Fixing some grammar. Trying to get the elements right ;)
EDIT #2: Apparently I can't make new comments anymore. Since I comment rarely, I assume this was some change as part of HN's vote-less comments change. May I make a theme request? Yes? Great! I really like the Solarized[1] theme, and think it would be a great addition.
In addition, I think callahad had a really great review on this same thread. I agree with #5 in particular, being able to switch off the preview, should I come about the need, would be really nice, mostly for the same reason callahad mentions. And #7, too.
One last agreement with callahad:
> Hopefully this is helpful and not discouraging! I didn't want to take the promo code without leaving you with some feedback.
[1]: http://ethanschoonover.com/solarized
Thanks for the feedback!
Themes are coming up. I'm gonna have a handful of color palets and typographic themes to pick from.
Took note of everything else. Will be working hard on making the app better in updates!
Themes are coming up. I'm gonna have a handful of color palets and typographic themes to pick from.
Took note of everything else. Will be working hard on making the app better in updates!
Wow, all gone in less than 14 minutes! Oh well.
This kind of reminds me of http://www.iawriter.com/
This kind of reminds me of http://www.iawriter.com/
I grabbed the 64AK4K67XPJ3 promo code. I'm a frequent Markdown user, primarily using Vim to edit my text.
Macchiato is a nice start, but I feel like it needs a fair bit of additional polish and consideration before being worth $20, especially in light of the other options mentioned in the comments. Here are a few things off the top of my head:
1. Links don't seem to be styled at all.
2. You're not parsing multi-paragraph list items properly: All subsequent paragraphs are displayed as code blocks.
3. I can't readily tell if lines are soft or hard wrapped, and the 73-character maximum text width isn't visibly demarcated, which feels a bit awkward. Especially in the full-screen mode.
4. I can't customize the styling at all, and I find Courier New and the gradient on the background to be unpleasantly distracting. I wouldn't be worried about this if the default aesthetics were more to my liking, but then again, you can't please everyone that way. :)
Since you're focusing on Lion, Menlo, introduced in 10.6, might be a more sensible font choice, and I think I'd prefer a lightly textured gradient-free background to the current styling.
5. I recognize that you view the unification of styled and plain text representations as a feature, but it personally doesn't work for me. When I write Markdown, I want to ensure that the plain text representation is legible and stands on its own, and I want to make sure that everything is being parsed correctly so that I can easily publish it for consumption by browsers. For me, mixing the two doesn't serve either purpose well.
For instance, it's difficult to tell if I've properly nested everything when I have an ordered list containing multiple paragraphs per item, possibly interspersed with code blocks and block quotes.
6. I somehow trigged a bug where my editing cursor appeared two lines above where text entry was actually happening.
7. It doesn't help me write Markdown, at all. A few places it would be nice:
7a. Hitting return after writing a list item. I'd like it if a new item was automatically created for me, with one backspace removing the new item but not de-indenting my cursor, and a second backspace actually de-indenting.
7b. Writing links would be easier if Macchiato matched braces for me, and possibly did some magic for [reference style][0] links.
7c. Writing code blocks would be easier if Macchiato maintained the same level of indentation after I hit return on each line, instead of needing me to tap out a bunch of spaces.
7d. I can't tell the difference between a space and a tab when I'm writing.
8. If you're limiting line length to 73 characters, why am I allowed to resize the editing window to be significantly wider than that?
There are plenty of nice touches: The support for auto saving / versions seems great, and I rather like the toggle-able word/character count in the title bar. The core of a great product is definitely there, but it needs some more cultivation.
Hopefully this is helpful and not discouraging! I didn't want to take the promo code without leaving you with some feedback.
[0]: http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax#link
Macchiato is a nice start, but I feel like it needs a fair bit of additional polish and consideration before being worth $20, especially in light of the other options mentioned in the comments. Here are a few things off the top of my head:
1. Links don't seem to be styled at all.
2. You're not parsing multi-paragraph list items properly: All subsequent paragraphs are displayed as code blocks.
3. I can't readily tell if lines are soft or hard wrapped, and the 73-character maximum text width isn't visibly demarcated, which feels a bit awkward. Especially in the full-screen mode.
4. I can't customize the styling at all, and I find Courier New and the gradient on the background to be unpleasantly distracting. I wouldn't be worried about this if the default aesthetics were more to my liking, but then again, you can't please everyone that way. :)
Since you're focusing on Lion, Menlo, introduced in 10.6, might be a more sensible font choice, and I think I'd prefer a lightly textured gradient-free background to the current styling.
5. I recognize that you view the unification of styled and plain text representations as a feature, but it personally doesn't work for me. When I write Markdown, I want to ensure that the plain text representation is legible and stands on its own, and I want to make sure that everything is being parsed correctly so that I can easily publish it for consumption by browsers. For me, mixing the two doesn't serve either purpose well.
For instance, it's difficult to tell if I've properly nested everything when I have an ordered list containing multiple paragraphs per item, possibly interspersed with code blocks and block quotes.
6. I somehow trigged a bug where my editing cursor appeared two lines above where text entry was actually happening.
7. It doesn't help me write Markdown, at all. A few places it would be nice:
7a. Hitting return after writing a list item. I'd like it if a new item was automatically created for me, with one backspace removing the new item but not de-indenting my cursor, and a second backspace actually de-indenting.
7b. Writing links would be easier if Macchiato matched braces for me, and possibly did some magic for [reference style][0] links.
7c. Writing code blocks would be easier if Macchiato maintained the same level of indentation after I hit return on each line, instead of needing me to tap out a bunch of spaces.
7d. I can't tell the difference between a space and a tab when I'm writing.
8. If you're limiting line length to 73 characters, why am I allowed to resize the editing window to be significantly wider than that?
There are plenty of nice touches: The support for auto saving / versions seems great, and I rather like the toggle-able word/character count in the title bar. The core of a great product is definitely there, but it needs some more cultivation.
Hopefully this is helpful and not discouraging! I didn't want to take the promo code without leaving you with some feedback.
[0]: http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax#link
Thanks for the feedback. I agree with most of your points, and this is a great roadmap for me to know what to work on next.
Congrats on the release Kenneth, it looks really great.
Think it's going to be tough to compete on price with: http://markedapp.com/
While the stylized text is a nice touch it does seem to be on the upper end of the market in terms of price at $19.99. Would be nice if you included some of the features of Byword on top of what you have.
Also, for those mentioning Marked as a competitor I must point out that Marked is actually solely a previewer, not an editor.
Also, for those mentioning Marked as a competitor I must point out that Marked is actually solely a previewer, not an editor.
Congrats on launching! It looks cool. I applaud your audacity by pricing it at $20, but that's pretty steep when there are already other markdown focused text editors (marked, iA writer, etc) for much cheaper.
I really like the web page. I can't comment on the app, because there's no way to try it without shelling out $20.
Byword is like 5 bucks. Not sure how this is going to compete, honestly.
Wondering how this will stack up to emdee.app (still in development).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foE-dXgTHoU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foE-dXgTHoU
The most significant design decision (and something that I think is a major feature over Emdee and Marked (mentioned in another comment) is that there is no distinction between preview and editing modes / views. Your code is stylized as the Markdown it represents, and that's the fundamental idea behind Macchiato.
Too expensive
Why is your app's squeeze page so big? It's over 3MB, mostly being weighed down by a 2.46MB background image (because it's a photo and you used PNG, you could cut it down by an order of magnitude by using JPEG). I'm glad I wasn't on 3G...
I am using Markdownlive, it support instant preview (mit-license, need to compile using xcode)
https://github.com/rentzsch/markdownlive
Nice work. Would be great if unordered and ordered lists were stylized.
They are, to a small extent. They look like plain text, but if an item wraps across lines, the indent level is preserved. Note: blockquotes and code blocks should do the same thing, but it hasn't been implemented yet.
$20, are you crazy? Vim is the best choice.
1. Emdee: $Unknown, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foE-dXgTHoU (Not yet fully released)
2. Markdown Editor: Free, http://keshiki.net/markdown-editor/ (Source code available, but no license specified)
3. Marked: $2.99, http://markedapp.com/ (Previewer, not an editor)
4. Byword: $9.99, http://bywordapp.com/
5. iA Writer: $17.99, http://www.iawriter.com/
6. WriteRoom: $24.99, http://hogbaysoftware.com/products/writeroom