Google failing to pay Android developers(theregister.co.uk)
theregister.co.uk
Google failing to pay Android developers
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/04/android_marketplace_payments/
19 comments
To be fair, it seems that it's only the Market team (or, if you use AdMob, the advertising team as well) that is so silent.
There are a number of Google Android developers who post to the various lists on a regular basis, answering tons of questions and quickly promising to fix bugs when they're identified.
There's a going theory that, because the Market involves money (like AdMob), the developers are under gag order from Google to not say anything, and all communications that do come out are filtered through legal.
I'm not justifying that as a practice, but just putting it out there that it might NOT be the fault of a reticent (or incompetent) Market team.
Though given the number of Friday-night releases that break things over the weekend (like a recent "oops! lost half your reviews!" bug), the incompetence theory has a lot of advocates.
There are a number of Google Android developers who post to the various lists on a regular basis, answering tons of questions and quickly promising to fix bugs when they're identified.
There's a going theory that, because the Market involves money (like AdMob), the developers are under gag order from Google to not say anything, and all communications that do come out are filtered through legal.
I'm not justifying that as a practice, but just putting it out there that it might NOT be the fault of a reticent (or incompetent) Market team.
Though given the number of Friday-night releases that break things over the weekend (like a recent "oops! lost half your reviews!" bug), the incompetence theory has a lot of advocates.
How can providing the most basic level of support be under a gag order? Especially when their support pages recommend using the forums?
Again, I'm not DEFENDING this position, but...
Assume you've got a a super-successful app making $100k/month. Then a bug in the market messes up its ratings (like it did last Friday) and as a result they lose ranking and several hundreds of thousands of dollars over the next few months. They complain about it in a forum, and a helpful engineer says, "Oh, yes, that's a mistake we pushed to the Market. Sorry our testing procedures aren't better. I'll fix it right away!"
Bang, they've just publicly admitted negligence, and that developer could sue them for the lost $$$.
Again, I have seen NO proof of this. It's a going theory primarily because the money-oriented arms of Google (Market, AdMob, AdSense) are also the three that are the most tight-lipped over support issues.
Assume you've got a a super-successful app making $100k/month. Then a bug in the market messes up its ratings (like it did last Friday) and as a result they lose ranking and several hundreds of thousands of dollars over the next few months. They complain about it in a forum, and a helpful engineer says, "Oh, yes, that's a mistake we pushed to the Market. Sorry our testing procedures aren't better. I'll fix it right away!"
Bang, they've just publicly admitted negligence, and that developer could sue them for the lost $$$.
Again, I have seen NO proof of this. It's a going theory primarily because the money-oriented arms of Google (Market, AdMob, AdSense) are also the three that are the most tight-lipped over support issues.
I don't see how they could be sued, even over such a comment, since I'm sure they don't make any guarantees regarding the availability of the market, much less for the ranking/search functionality. You would have to prove malice or gross negligence but I think for the latter you would need good lawyers to have a chance.
You can be sued (in the US) over anything. They could certainly be sued for screwing things up without even any public evidence, but as you point out it's difficult to prove gross negligence, so most people won't bother.
But certainly it becomes much easier if you have evidence from someone inside the company.
YOU don't really need to see how they could be sued, or how an engineer's comments could put them at risk, in any event. If Google's legal counsel believes it to be a risk, then that COULD be what's going on behind the scenes.
And this is exactly the kind of thing that a lawyer would advise, which is really my only point.
But certainly it becomes much easier if you have evidence from someone inside the company.
YOU don't really need to see how they could be sued, or how an engineer's comments could put them at risk, in any event. If Google's legal counsel believes it to be a risk, then that COULD be what's going on behind the scenes.
And this is exactly the kind of thing that a lawyer would advise, which is really my only point.
Costs them money. When it makes them money, only then will you hear from them. Do no evil, as beautiful a plan as that was, is not what is in the new peoples hearts. A shame isn't it?
I have an app in the webOS app store. Palm/HP have been absolutely great about payouts. There have been two problems with the payments so far, both due to technical issues, and they have been addressed promptly and professionally (they sent us money).
Last issue was just last week, where their online interface reported inflated sales numbers. A few days ago I received an email saying that HP will send us the difference in the next payout, even though the actual payouts were accurate based on actual download numbers.
They also had the Hot Apps contest running where both of my apps won. The payouts were prompt, they even sent more to take care of PayPal fees. So in the end I got the exact dollar amount in that I won in my bank account.
They've been good to developers in general.
Last issue was just last week, where their online interface reported inflated sales numbers. A few days ago I received an email saying that HP will send us the difference in the next payout, even though the actual payouts were accurate based on actual download numbers.
They also had the Hot Apps contest running where both of my apps won. The payouts were prompt, they even sent more to take care of PayPal fees. So in the end I got the exact dollar amount in that I won in my bank account.
They've been good to developers in general.
They also changed my google checkout payment schedule for non-android payments to "next month payouts", meaning bills for development were delayed up to 30 days from when the client got them to me.
Google doesn't feel like they "get" this "people want and need their money thing".
Google doesn't feel like they "get" this "people want and need their money thing".
This + the search problem (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2811756).
Google seems to forget that apps make a OS popular, not the OS itself.
Google seems to forget that apps make a OS popular, not the OS itself.
For all the hubris about their exclusive hiring method and engineering culture, these are pretty run-of-the-mill egregious bugs to be left hanging for months. Maybe Google does not invest much in Android because it's more of a sideshow.
I think that's exactly the problem though. With Comp Sci and Academia people from top to bottom, you don't get enough people that care about customer service or business issues.
I see nothing to prove this has been happening more than a week. Just some claims that it's been happening since last year, which might have been a different problem altogether.
Google's working on it.
Google's working on it.
I've been noticing the problem, but as far back as I have noticed it personally thus far is to 7/26... some spot checking from 7/11 shows the web orders going through fine then, at least for me. But from 7/26 to now, my web based orders have been charged, but I have received no payout for them.
I have confidence that it will eventually get sorted out.
When the market breaks (it does so occasionally for developers), I wish there was more immediate feedback available from Google. The forums are a good start, but they tend to get filled quickly with melodrama on any hot issue. But all in all I am happy as an Android developer.
I have confidence that it will eventually get sorted out.
When the market breaks (it does so occasionally for developers), I wish there was more immediate feedback available from Google. The forums are a good start, but they tend to get filled quickly with melodrama on any hot issue. But all in all I am happy as an Android developer.
One thing the article mentions is that there is a semicolon that can be seen, indicating it is a web-based order. That is not the case universally, it seems - my web-based orders do not have a semicolon after the app name on the order summary page.
You can tell, however, that it is a web-based order by the full customer contact info (including real email), as well as the additional developer-specific order number at the bottom of the page, when viewing the order details.
You can tell, however, that it is a web-based order by the full customer contact info (including real email), as well as the additional developer-specific order number at the bottom of the page, when viewing the order details.
Another small detail seems to be that VAT is listed as a separate item in the order invoice for web market purchases. On purchases made from the on-device market, the VAT is just mentioned under the total sum.
To me the Market feels like it's been hacked and superglued on top of Checkout. Strange inconsistencies like this and some other bugs.
To me the Market feels like it's been hacked and superglued on top of Checkout. Strange inconsistencies like this and some other bugs.
I haven't had any problems with Edgy and got a deposit yesterday.
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The reason there is so much frustration among Android developers is merely due to the lack of communication from the Google Android Team about anything.
We feel like we are on our own, in the dark, and not important. Every problem feels like a HUGE problem because there is no open line of communication. We scream for help into the Market forum which might as well be a black hole.
Why not talk to us?
How hard would it be to post often to a popular thread on the Market forum? How hard would that be? What's the hang-up? Just a little bit more of a human touch and Android devs would all get to breathe easier and we'd love developing on Android even more.
It's so simple. Talk to us.