Ask HN: What to build into a better Social Network?
7 comments
Honestly, that so many people are on Facebook does little for me. (I mean, do users mind being the first to sign up for a new service? Don't many (an increasing number?) dig that?) But everyone I once knew from highschool wanted to add me on Facebook... And then we continued to not stay in touch with each other. It's not about social networks, but people instead go for the metagame of "friend accumulation" so they can pretend that they're Ashton Kutcher or something. Weird.
And actually, I closed my Facebook a while back. Well, I put up an image saying I was no longer responding there, but friends can contact me through other means listed in my profile. Close enough.
What do I want in a social network? Functionality that isn't about something trying to become the medium. That's what MySpace was and Facebook is, services trying to supplant the rest of the Internet. Messages, posts, walls, galleries, info, etc.? I have email, a blog, Twitter, IM, Flickr, a calendar, and a phone number for calling/texting people I talk to most often. I'm easily contactable for friends, as they are to me.
So all the problems that Facebook "solves"? Not really problems for me. And increasingly as more people use computers every day (yes, there are many who still don't,) those things won't be problems for everyone else either. These networks exist to help shoehorn those who aren't digitally literate (or those willing to sacrifice ability for ease) into the present. I honestly do think the need for this, will eventually start shrinking until it hits a base where people who are just uninterested in the Internet will be the only ones using them. Ironic, eh?
You want me to sign up for another social network? Offer some unique functionality I didn't realize I was missing, or build your network around something niche that I can't say "no" to. (Actually this reminds me of the "What would you do if you owned MySpace?" post from about a month ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2499250 )
And actually, I closed my Facebook a while back. Well, I put up an image saying I was no longer responding there, but friends can contact me through other means listed in my profile. Close enough.
What do I want in a social network? Functionality that isn't about something trying to become the medium. That's what MySpace was and Facebook is, services trying to supplant the rest of the Internet. Messages, posts, walls, galleries, info, etc.? I have email, a blog, Twitter, IM, Flickr, a calendar, and a phone number for calling/texting people I talk to most often. I'm easily contactable for friends, as they are to me.
So all the problems that Facebook "solves"? Not really problems for me. And increasingly as more people use computers every day (yes, there are many who still don't,) those things won't be problems for everyone else either. These networks exist to help shoehorn those who aren't digitally literate (or those willing to sacrifice ability for ease) into the present. I honestly do think the need for this, will eventually start shrinking until it hits a base where people who are just uninterested in the Internet will be the only ones using them. Ironic, eh?
You want me to sign up for another social network? Offer some unique functionality I didn't realize I was missing, or build your network around something niche that I can't say "no" to. (Actually this reminds me of the "What would you do if you owned MySpace?" post from about a month ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2499250 )
These are parallel to my thoughts: All fine and dandy but what's the point? I don't want to copy FB's business model. I'm looking for a new mission.
FB keeps adding features we didn't know we were missing. If what I build is better, it means going beyond functionality to build something that redefines what the Social Network is.
I don't just want you to sign up for some feature you'll detest in a year. Maybe the question I should be asking is "What do You Wish the Social Network Could Do for You"?
FB keeps adding features we didn't know we were missing. If what I build is better, it means going beyond functionality to build something that redefines what the Social Network is.
I don't just want you to sign up for some feature you'll detest in a year. Maybe the question I should be asking is "What do You Wish the Social Network Could Do for You"?
Ah man. I wrote a long-ass reply, but I lost it when trying to post. I'll try to quickly hammer out a readable version.
"What do I want a social network to do for me?" The only reason I ever actively used Facebook was to look up info on my friends. So, I suppose I want a passive "black book" more than anything. A universal contact list.
Let users enter their data for defined fields (personal email, professional email, personal phone, pro phone, address, IMs, popular sites) and then them also define their own fields for inclusion (in case I want to let people know a particular forum or new service I spend time on. It's a good way to see what your users use.)
Then display it in a very minimalist way. Ever used Passpack? It lists my services, and has a grid of icons. So, list my contacts, and their info. When they don't have that info, leave the grid blank or grayed out. When they do, offer a clickable link for the site/service. (A link to IM them on that service, or to their profile on a site.)
Also let me add labels to each service, and to my contacts. For example, my personal email would have "friends", "online friends", and "family" labels, allowing each person I assigned those labels to see my personal email.
And bonus points if people sign up with their email addresses or phone numbers, rather than a site-specific username. It's silly for people to have to jockey for those on another service, relegating themselves to bigThunder1452 or the likes.
Asking users for the passwords (but not storing them) to confirm they own the accounts they list is nice, too. If a user hasn't logged in within the past month, ask them to confirm their data upon login.
With a minimalist design of a banner at the top, a list of recent contacts at login, and ways to list people by label, alpha, letter, or by account type, Throw an ad at the bottom or on a side.
I'm betting many business professionals would keep that tab open like I currently do with Gmail.
Hell, I've even thought of a name. Call it FriendInfo, and use FriendIn.fo, with, of course, purchasing friendinfo.com and friend.info as redirects.
"What do I want a social network to do for me?" The only reason I ever actively used Facebook was to look up info on my friends. So, I suppose I want a passive "black book" more than anything. A universal contact list.
Let users enter their data for defined fields (personal email, professional email, personal phone, pro phone, address, IMs, popular sites) and then them also define their own fields for inclusion (in case I want to let people know a particular forum or new service I spend time on. It's a good way to see what your users use.)
Then display it in a very minimalist way. Ever used Passpack? It lists my services, and has a grid of icons. So, list my contacts, and their info. When they don't have that info, leave the grid blank or grayed out. When they do, offer a clickable link for the site/service. (A link to IM them on that service, or to their profile on a site.)
Also let me add labels to each service, and to my contacts. For example, my personal email would have "friends", "online friends", and "family" labels, allowing each person I assigned those labels to see my personal email.
And bonus points if people sign up with their email addresses or phone numbers, rather than a site-specific username. It's silly for people to have to jockey for those on another service, relegating themselves to bigThunder1452 or the likes.
Asking users for the passwords (but not storing them) to confirm they own the accounts they list is nice, too. If a user hasn't logged in within the past month, ask them to confirm their data upon login.
With a minimalist design of a banner at the top, a list of recent contacts at login, and ways to list people by label, alpha, letter, or by account type, Throw an ad at the bottom or on a side.
I'm betting many business professionals would keep that tab open like I currently do with Gmail.
Hell, I've even thought of a name. Call it FriendInfo, and use FriendIn.fo, with, of course, purchasing friendinfo.com and friend.info as redirects.
I want a passive "black book" more than anything. A universal contact list. Got it. I like your thoughts. You've got what you want down to a science.
The summary in three sentences: Build a passive blackbook with universally accessible contacts which allows ease of use and encourages participation with a points system. Layer a minimalistic design on top and lock it down with a bit of password security.
So simple. Did I miss anything?
The summary in three sentences: Build a passive blackbook with universally accessible contacts which allows ease of use and encourages participation with a points system. Layer a minimalistic design on top and lock it down with a bit of password security.
So simple. Did I miss anything?
Aside from how much I obviously like to ramble? ;)
I wasn't thinking a point system, more like, "Once you connect to other people, it your job to keep your information up to date, and what information others have access to."
Maybe ask people when signing up, "To help you stay in contact, we'd like to send you a reminder to keep this information up to date! Please choose a time frame for a reminder:" and let them choose 3 or 6 months. At least, I don't think an email once every six months (saying "your friends have this contact information from you:" If this is not up to date, please log in an update your contact info!) is spamming.
I wasn't thinking a point system, more like, "Once you connect to other people, it your job to keep your information up to date, and what information others have access to."
Maybe ask people when signing up, "To help you stay in contact, we'd like to send you a reminder to keep this information up to date! Please choose a time frame for a reminder:" and let them choose 3 or 6 months. At least, I don't think an email once every six months (saying "your friends have this contact information from you:" If this is not up to date, please log in an update your contact info!) is spamming.
My "quick writing" didn't do me many favors. Aiming at business and then calling it "Friend" may be mixed messages. ContactWith? ContactInto? Or maybe aim it at friends, and stick with the other... But, yeah, you get the idea.
I think I can do better.
If you think you can do better than Facebook, then you have no reason to be asking us for advice. Clearly, you've already got some incredibly powerful idea that will get you enough traction to the "chicken/egg" problem for you, and compete with a company that has a user base of 600 million and billions of dollars in the bank.
So, don't waste your time chatting here-- go out and build it! And then, come back and show us, ok?
If you think you can do better than Facebook, then you have no reason to be asking us for advice. Clearly, you've already got some incredibly powerful idea that will get you enough traction to the "chicken/egg" problem for you, and compete with a company that has a user base of 600 million and billions of dollars in the bank.
So, don't waste your time chatting here-- go out and build it! And then, come back and show us, ok?
I really do. Doesn't phase me because FB is turning into the slow moving monster that its founders once feared.
What you said is what I needed to hear. Thanks. Just catching some advice before building it over the summer. I'll be back!
What you said is what I needed to hear. Thanks. Just catching some advice before building it over the summer. I'll be back!
The real problem is that even facebook seems aol-esque from he onset. It was not technologically revolutionary. Its niche was the cachet conjured from the marketing strategy (harvard -> ivy league schools -> colleges in general -> students in general -> public). Given that facebook has reached critical mass, its hard to imagine a solution that is incrementally better than facebook that could achieve critical mass.
Yes there was myspace / whatever other social networking sites, but the problem there was that none of them reached critical mass.
The only way you could build a better social network is if you really re-thought the problem. Thinking about stuff like privacy controls and apps is taking a facebook-like perspective on the matter, and you won't get anywhere.
You need to think about how a 21st century platform would behave. Define your niche.
And unless you plan on setting up a 501c3, you need to think about how this could be monetized. Ads? Now it would really be slick if you could find a better way of executing ads -- somehow 5 ads per page doesn't really appeal to me
Yes there was myspace / whatever other social networking sites, but the problem there was that none of them reached critical mass.
The only way you could build a better social network is if you really re-thought the problem. Thinking about stuff like privacy controls and apps is taking a facebook-like perspective on the matter, and you won't get anywhere.
You need to think about how a 21st century platform would behave. Define your niche.
And unless you plan on setting up a 501c3, you need to think about how this could be monetized. Ads? Now it would really be slick if you could find a better way of executing ads -- somehow 5 ads per page doesn't really appeal to me
True. Love the minimalism but the "aol-esque" feel is lacking. Truth is, being socially revolutionary, not technologically revolutionary is what made FB dominant.
So, I need to really rethink the social problem. Maybe I should be asking "What Social Problem Needs to Be Solved to Reach Critical Mass?".
And, thanks for the suggestion. Looks like my solution will involve better ad execution or none at all.
So, I need to really rethink the social problem. Maybe I should be asking "What Social Problem Needs to Be Solved to Reach Critical Mass?".
And, thanks for the suggestion. Looks like my solution will involve better ad execution or none at all.
Been there done that. I spent over a year to create something that was supposed to be better than facebook. It took that long, because whenever I believed i had an idea that topped facebook- they went ahead and bought out another startup that offered the exact feature you were going to offer on your site. So you think of something new, and pretty soon, your site becomes as bloated as what facebook is now.
Like many posters, Facebook isn't "technologically revolutionary" - it simply went along with the flow and had the right people at the right time.
The reason why my social networking site failed was because users don't find another reason to jump ship from facebook to yours. All your close friends would definitely go and invite people, but there's a limit to how far people go to collect users for you before it's considered spam.
The top response I got was " Oh another social networking site?"
Like many posters, Facebook isn't "technologically revolutionary" - it simply went along with the flow and had the right people at the right time.
The reason why my social networking site failed was because users don't find another reason to jump ship from facebook to yours. All your close friends would definitely go and invite people, but there's a limit to how far people go to collect users for you before it's considered spam.
The top response I got was " Oh another social networking site?"
I feel sorry for you. I know I'm going to do this because I don't play by the odds. Mark Zuckerburg certainly didn't.
Do your homework and a project like this really shouldn't have taken you a whole year. Sometimes you've got to just ship the thing and get feedback. After all, its for the people, not for you.
Why didn't you release it to a certain college instead of starting from your friends? Like Barbara Corcoran stated on Mixergy, "never go to your family and friends to practice..." You should know why.
Do your homework and a project like this really shouldn't have taken you a whole year. Sometimes you've got to just ship the thing and get feedback. After all, its for the people, not for you.
Why didn't you release it to a certain college instead of starting from your friends? Like Barbara Corcoran stated on Mixergy, "never go to your family and friends to practice..." You should know why.
"Besides the fact that many people are already on FB" as pg might say: "that is the ONLY thing you should worry about. Don't spend time on ANYTHING else until you solve this."
Ok, you've got my attention. I didn't think I could control the number of people on FB until I've built something people want more.
Are you saying I should start building now or are you really saying that I need to solve this "number of people on FB" problem first?
Are you saying I should start building now or are you really saying that I need to solve this "number of people on FB" problem first?
You need to focus all your efforts on figuring out a way to get people's friends on the system. Without that, all other features are futile. How are you going to get people's friends on there? You should not worry about anything else.
In other words: is privacy going to get my friends on there? If not, drop it. Is "no games" going to get my friends on there? Is more user control going to get my friends on there?
In other words: is privacy going to get my friends on there? If not, drop it. Is "no games" going to get my friends on there? Is more user control going to get my friends on there?
Got it. First, I need to the network effect. Everything else is just icing on the cake.
What I do next from the domain to the scripting language to the release locations will be focused not only on getting results but on getting the right results. Thanks!
What I do next from the domain to the scripting language to the release locations will be focused not only on getting results but on getting the right results. Thanks!
What's your opinion on more Privacy, more User Control and NO Apps & Games?
Sounds extremely boring to me.
Sounds extremely boring to me.
Sounds actually useful and not like a time sink designed to force feed ads to users.
Thanks for grasping the point. More Privacy, more User Control and NO Apps & Games would simply be one way to solve the usability issue.
Right now, social networks are like junk food for humans. You know what I mean. I would like to solve that flaw sooner rather than later.
Right now, social networks are like junk food for humans. You know what I mean. I would like to solve that flaw sooner rather than later.
How is that a flaw? They have SIX HUNDRED MILLION USERS.
People want junk food. That's why everyone is fat and dumb. They watch junk on TV, read junk online, say junk to people on facebook, and eat junk at home.
0.000001% of people care about privacy and control and less apps & games.
Allow me to categorize my friends into work, friends, family, public categories and you're on the right track. Come up with a novel way to communicate with each other.
People want junk food. That's why everyone is fat and dumb. They watch junk on TV, read junk online, say junk to people on facebook, and eat junk at home.
0.000001% of people care about privacy and control and less apps & games.
Allow me to categorize my friends into work, friends, family, public categories and you're on the right track. Come up with a novel way to communicate with each other.
You really believe FB will rule the world with under 50% of the world's *
current internet users? I foresee millions of "new customers" with different expectations in the next decade. FaceBook wasn't first and I don't believe they'll be last.
Junk food? True but I'd rather be Starbucks than McDonalds. If I do this, we're doing it right. I'll be back with something you can see this summer.
You want a simple organized directory that makes communication with your entire network dead easy? Got it.
Junk food? True but I'd rather be Starbucks than McDonalds. If I do this, we're doing it right. I'll be back with something you can see this summer.
You want a simple organized directory that makes communication with your entire network dead easy? Got it.
I am starting a brand new social network with two other developers on board. I would love to connect, even if it's just to bounce ideas off each other.
Don't worry I won't steal your idea my company already has in motion what we want in a social network :)
Don't worry I won't steal your idea my company already has in motion what we want in a social network :)
That's cool. I'm willing to serve up ideas since I'm passionate about solving the social problem. What's your strategy? Release to the masses?
How far are you into the process? Do you have a domain yet? Why don't we wait until I start coding the project this Summer. I'll have something built by then so we can compare notes and structure.
Sound like a plan! I've got your contact info; I'll be in touch.
How far are you into the process? Do you have a domain yet? Why don't we wait until I start coding the project this Summer. I'll have something built by then so we can compare notes and structure.
Sound like a plan! I've got your contact info; I'll be in touch.
Besides the fact that many people are already on FB, what would you be happy to see in a new social network?
I would like to go back to the basics. What's your opinion on more Privacy, more User Control and NO Apps & Games?