GitHub admits fault in firing of Jewish employee, head of HR resigns(theverge.com)
theverge.com
GitHub admits fault in firing of Jewish employee, head of HR resigns
https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/17/22235913/github-significant-mistakes-were-made-firing-jewish-employee-nazis
18 comments
This isn't politics. This is existential. It's only politics when all voices are heard. When a contingent are trying to upend democracy and denigrate entire demographics, then it's no longer an opinion worth respecting and has to be shut down. There has been ample evidence of Nazis and other hate groups in the Capitol riot as there has been in the Trump movement since the start. You've certainly already seen it and are choosing to ignore.
You say private messages, but the BI article posted to HN before (https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-github-backlash-je...) calls the communications channel "a Slack group for Jewish employees."
GitHub was way out of line viewing and judging these messages. It doesn't matter what happened there. That channel is not for them.
GitHub was way out of line viewing and judging these messages. It doesn't matter what happened there. That channel is not for them.
> GitHub was way out of line viewing and judging these
> messages. It doesn't matter what happened there. That
> channel is not for them.
I think that really depends on when the employees are using it - if it's on company time then I think GitHub have some right to reprimand people for the use of their time, rather than the content on their messages.
> messages. It doesn't matter what happened there. That
> channel is not for them.
I think that really depends on when the employees are using it - if it's on company time then I think GitHub have some right to reprimand people for the use of their time, rather than the content on their messages.
> I am yet to see evidence of Nazis being at the protests - I don't think anybody openly displaying support for Nazi ideals would find wide support in a pro-America crowd.
In this classic picture https://news.yahoo.com/q-shaman-stormed-capitol-upset-192631...
the guy in the yellow shirt is Jason Tankersley, founder of the Maryland Skinheads. The guy to his right in the mask is Matthew Heimbach, former leader of the Traditionalist Workers Party (a neo nazi org).
In this classic picture https://news.yahoo.com/q-shaman-stormed-capitol-upset-192631...
the guy in the yellow shirt is Jason Tankersley, founder of the Maryland Skinheads. The guy to his right in the mask is Matthew Heimbach, former leader of the Traditionalist Workers Party (a neo nazi org).
>the guy in the yellow shirt is Jason Tankersley
I believe you have a case of mistaken identity. This article identifies the man as Will Watson from Montgomery.
https://www.alreporter.com/2021/01/07/no-this-capitol-insurr...
I believe you have a case of mistaken identity. This article identifies the man as Will Watson from Montgomery.
https://www.alreporter.com/2021/01/07/no-this-capitol-insurr...
> I am yet to see evidence of Nazis being at the protests - I don't think anybody openly displaying support for Nazi ideals would find wide support in a pro-America crowd.
The "Camp Auschwitz" shirt strikes me as pretty clear.
The "Camp Auschwitz" shirt strikes me as pretty clear.
There were multiple photos of a man wearing a shirt that said "6MWE" which stands for "Six Million Wasn't Enough", a direct reference to the holocaust. Are you saying you don't believe that sentiment is in line with Nazis? Or do you not believe that this shirt was on display there?
https://www.jta.org/2021/01/11/united-states/a-photo-of-an-a...
Edit: And this is one example, if you are truly in the dark about these symbols and what not being on display more examples can be provided but I really would like to know if you've seen this and what you think.
https://www.jta.org/2021/01/11/united-states/a-photo-of-an-a...
Edit: And this is one example, if you are truly in the dark about these symbols and what not being on display more examples can be provided but I really would like to know if you've seen this and what you think.
panny(3)
> Are you saying you don't believe that sentiment is in line
> with Nazis?
If that is a photo from the capitol protests, sure, the sentiment is in line with that of the Nazis on the topic of Jewish people. But I might expect many Palestinians to share the same ideas, but they are not by definition Nazis, despite overlapping ideas about Jewish people.
That shirt is black and yellow, the colors for the 'Proud Boys' [1]. Whilst the group is described as 'far-right', I don't believe they support Nazis. I believe the leader is of mixed ethnicity.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys
> with Nazis?
If that is a photo from the capitol protests, sure, the sentiment is in line with that of the Nazis on the topic of Jewish people. But I might expect many Palestinians to share the same ideas, but they are not by definition Nazis, despite overlapping ideas about Jewish people.
That shirt is black and yellow, the colors for the 'Proud Boys' [1]. Whilst the group is described as 'far-right', I don't believe they support Nazis. I believe the leader is of mixed ethnicity.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys
> In the post, GitHub COO Erica Brescia said: “To the employee we wish to say publicly: we sincerely apologize.”
How about offering the employee a generous severance package and their job back?
edit: Based on their blog it seems like they did, the linked article just didn't mention this.
How about offering the employee a generous severance package and their job back?
edit: Based on their blog it seems like they did, the linked article just didn't mention this.
I think they have offered his job back. That's the impression I got reading from their blog: https://github.blog/2021-01-17-update-on-an-employee-matter/
"In light of these findings, we immediately reversed the decision to separate with the employee and are in communication with his representative."
"In light of these findings, we immediately reversed the decision to separate with the employee and are in communication with his representative."
[deleted]
Already before this received two months pay and now also has job offered back
The fish rots from the head.
They need to terminate the CEO and everyone else who has been involved in firing the employee in question. It is not that the CEO was not informed about that kind of "action" and did not decide not to overrule it.
They need to terminate the CEO and everyone else who has been involved in firing the employee in question. It is not that the CEO was not informed about that kind of "action" and did not decide not to overrule it.
458aperta(4)
https://github.blog/2021-01-17-update-on-an-employee-matter
> On Friday, January 8th, GitHub separated with an employee.
What an absurdly passive corporate euphemism for GitHub wrongfully firing one of their employees.
> On Friday, January 8th, GitHub separated with an employee.
What an absurdly passive corporate euphemism for GitHub wrongfully firing one of their employees.
I don't know if I'd read that much into it. It's possible that the employee was asked to resign for severance instead of getting fired outright, and Github just wants to make sure they're being accurate. After all, the rest of the post makes it pretty clear they acknowledge their mistake.
Saying they coerced the employee to resign would be accurate too then. The euphemism isn't needed.
Wasn't there a similar, but different euphemism used in the Google vs the histrionic AI researcher? I try to remember, but can't. Yet.
I think that with google she resigned. She offered her resignation if her demands were not met.
She proposed discussing a resignation date if her conditions weren't met. Google fired her immediately.
Is there more to this story? It is not clear why it mattered that the employee is Jewish and seems like that could have happened to anyone else as well.
I agree that it's a weird detail to include, but the alternative would be:
"GitHub admits fault in firing of employee who said 'Nazi'"
...which, while true, would give people a negative impression of the employee if they only read the headline.
It's also meaningful that he is Jewish and asked his coworkers to beware of Nazis because he has more reason than a non-Jewish person to be afraid of Nazis.
"GitHub admits fault in firing of employee who said 'Nazi'"
...which, while true, would give people a negative impression of the employee if they only read the headline.
It's also meaningful that he is Jewish and asked his coworkers to beware of Nazis because he has more reason than a non-Jewish person to be afraid of Nazis.
I think the fact that the employee is Jewish just points to the egregiousness of the decision rather than tipping the scale one way or another.
What specifically does it point to, though? I don't see what would have been different here if the employee were a gentile.
You don't see why Jewish employees might be more concerned and in tune with safety considerations of the presence of literal Nazis than gentile employees?
Like I was saying, the decision would have been the same either way, but it's more egregious when weaponized against a Jewish employee.
Like I was saying, the decision would have been the same either way, but it's more egregious when weaponized against a Jewish employee.
I mean, I guess, but it just seems bizarre and unnecessary to force a racial angle on this story. I would be pretty unhappy if I were in this guy's place and reporters insisted on calling me a "Mexican employee".
We're talking about literal Nazis here. It's not 'forcing' a racial angle when they want to round up people like the employee in question and put them in death camps based on their race.
If you were warning about the presence of a group calling for a Mexican genocide to your Mexican colleagues and were fired for it, it would make sense for that to be noted in the news stories.
If you were warning about the presence of a group calling for a Mexican genocide to your Mexican colleagues and were fired for it, it would make sense for that to be noted in the news stories.
previous thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25812655
^^^ This is Github’s official statement which is absolutely worth reading.
However, the title is rather unfortunate: “Update on an employee matter.” That title is extraordinarily biased. While I didn’t really anticipate how this submission would get flagged, I don’t think the corporate-speak title is at all fair to the situation. That said, duly noted how the mods treated that story versus this one.
However, the title is rather unfortunate: “Update on an employee matter.” That title is extraordinarily biased. While I didn’t really anticipate how this submission would get flagged, I don’t think the corporate-speak title is at all fair to the situation. That said, duly noted how the mods treated that story versus this one.
flagging isn't done by mods, but by users. And I assume a large part of it being flagged is because it's a duplicate of the other discussion.
Absolutely unfortunate situation but quite pleased with how GitHub has promptly responded to this situation.
Let me get this straight: A Github employee used the them "Nazi" in an appropriate context. Other employees, who many not be targets of Nazis, took "offense" at this, and got this employee fired.
I'd say that Microsoft should fire all of GitHub management for this -- as well as the other employees who stirred the pot.
I'd say that Microsoft should fire all of GitHub management for this -- as well as the other employees who stirred the pot.
DiabloD3(2)
Doesn't matter that he's Jewish. You shouldn't get fired for this.
These censorious companies are way too sensitive for this. I don't get how these are the same people who promote entrepreneurship and taking huge risks in business and tech but the second someone says a word that hurts their feelings they should be fired.
These censorious companies are way too sensitive for this. I don't get how these are the same people who promote entrepreneurship and taking huge risks in business and tech but the second someone says a word that hurts their feelings they should be fired.
>100% Nazis were there
That's great that github acknowledges that employees are free to talk about their concerns of bigotry, but calling everyone outside of your party a nazi is just as bigoted. Tone it down.
That's great that github acknowledges that employees are free to talk about their concerns of bigotry, but calling everyone outside of your party a nazi is just as bigoted. Tone it down.
Did the fired employee do this?
I mean, literal founding members of groups like "Maryland Skinheads" were leading the charge to break into the capitol.
100% Nazis were there.
EDIT: Like, Jason Tankersley is standing there next to Q Shaman in tons of pics. How is this controversial?
100% Nazis were there.
EDIT: Like, Jason Tankersley is standing there next to Q Shaman in tons of pics. How is this controversial?
Jayden X was one of the very first in. It's on video. Would be tough to characterize him as a Nazi.
The point is that there are many people with many ideologies, ugly or not, that patriciate in this year-long age of unrest. Can we stop with trying to characterize everything as something?
The point is that there are many people with many ideologies, ugly or not, that patriciate in this year-long age of unrest. Can we stop with trying to characterize everything as something?
In this classic picture https://news.yahoo.com/q-shaman-stormed-capitol-upset-192631...
the guy in the yellow shirt is Jason Tankersley, founder of the Maryland Skinheads. The guy to his right in the mask is Matthew Heimbach, former leader of the Traditionalist Workers Party (a neo nazi org).
The fact that you can point to someone there that wasn't a nazi doesn't negate the fact that 100% nazis were both there and prominent.
the guy in the yellow shirt is Jason Tankersley, founder of the Maryland Skinheads. The guy to his right in the mask is Matthew Heimbach, former leader of the Traditionalist Workers Party (a neo nazi org).
The fact that you can point to someone there that wasn't a nazi doesn't negate the fact that 100% nazis were both there and prominent.
Agree or disagree with him, it's refreshing to see a CEO taking a direct and absolute stance on a subject like this and not some wishy washy corporate doublespeak.
I would hope CEO to protect someone saying “be safe from rioters and looters in BLM marches”, but that won’t happen.
It’s easy to protect someone who is supported by the majority.
It’s easy to protect someone who is supported by the majority.
This whole situation is a great example of why you should avoid politics / politically charged statements in the workplace all around. No one's mind about anything was fundamentally changed. People got upset and stressed out and wasted a bunch of time. People had their employment status impacted. It was just an overall negative episode. When people say something that is problematic or borderline, the response should be "end the thread" and everyone moves on with their work.
It isn't problematic to note that there are literal-not-figurative Nazis afoot. It is descriptive.
How one chooses to respond to that description is telling on oneself. And "see? just don't talk about politics, ignore the literal Nazis" is telling on yourself, too.
How one chooses to respond to that description is telling on oneself. And "see? just don't talk about politics, ignore the literal Nazis" is telling on yourself, too.
Your putting words in my mouth. I never suggested that the description was the problematic part. A person can bring up tons of factual things that just stir the political and emotional pot (current events, anniversary of a war or assassination, quoting a politician, quoting current law, bringing up niche holidays, quoting results of research papers, etc, etc). The fact of the matter is that a company chat channel is best served as not being a police blotter,a history book,a memorial site, Wikipedia, the news feed of media outlet, or many other things that are still in realm of descriptive facts.
Can you share an example of where you've seen neo-Nazis recently (like legitimate, swastika-branded Nazis)?
In this classic picture https://news.yahoo.com/q-shaman-stormed-capitol-upset-192631...
the guy in the yellow shirt is Jason Tankersley, founder of the Maryland Skinheads. The guy to his right in the mask is Matthew Heimbach, former leader of the Traditionalist Workers Party (a neo nazi org).
the guy in the yellow shirt is Jason Tankersley, founder of the Maryland Skinheads. The guy to his right in the mask is Matthew Heimbach, former leader of the Traditionalist Workers Party (a neo nazi org).
Do you have any examples aside from this event?
> Do you have any examples aside from this event?
Sure: https://www.adl.org/blog/anti-semitism-on-full-display-in-ch...
Those goalposts are really on wheels aren't they?
Sure: https://www.adl.org/blog/anti-semitism-on-full-display-in-ch...
Those goalposts are really on wheels aren't they?
No. It’s not a surprise the only other example you could pull is the other one that was pushed by the media relentlessly for years. Anything else? I keep hearing America is a white supremacist country with Nazis everywhere. Where are they? Shouldn’t I see them more often? Why were there so many minorities at Trump rallies who were welcomed and never harmed (myself among them)? Maybe it’s all just a narrative being pushed?
Can you find one example?
<Example provided>
Anything aside from this event?
<Another example provided, points to moving goalposts>
> It’s not a surprise the only other example you could pull is the other one that was pushed by the media relentlessly for years. Anything else?
https://www.13wmaz.com/mobile/article/news/neo-nazi-group-le...
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2018/01/os...
https://mobile.reuters.com/news/picture/white-nationalists-d...
But I’m not chasing those goalposts any more.
<Example provided>
Anything aside from this event?
<Another example provided, points to moving goalposts>
> It’s not a surprise the only other example you could pull is the other one that was pushed by the media relentlessly for years. Anything else?
https://www.13wmaz.com/mobile/article/news/neo-nazi-group-le...
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2018/01/os...
https://mobile.reuters.com/news/picture/white-nationalists-d...
But I’m not chasing those goalposts any more.
You got me. Guess I should just capitulate. Where’s the punch bowl?
Does this fit the description? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-camp-auschwitz-shir...
I'd say so.
How many people like that do you think are bumping around having a meaningful impact on people's belief systems (versus just being ignorant in their own little bubbles)? I ask that because the level of fervor and fear around Nazis these days makes it sound like they're goose-stepping around in large groups.
How many people like that do you think are bumping around having a meaningful impact on people's belief systems (versus just being ignorant in their own little bubbles)? I ask that because the level of fervor and fear around Nazis these days makes it sound like they're goose-stepping around in large groups.
What is quite amazing to me is that they were so quick to fire him. I mean, even if he said something inappropriate it just doesn't make business sense. People say all kind of inappropriate things all the time. If a comment violates your policy have a chat with them and continue normally. Firing an employee is very expensive. Firing them over inappropriate comment is also demoralizing to the rest of the team.
I mean it's better to have some co-workers who are dicks, some that call you a grammar nazi and maybe even some who disagree with you politically than to play a Russian roulette with words every day - you never know which one is loaded and terminates your career.
I mean it's better to have some co-workers who are dicks, some that call you a grammar nazi and maybe even some who disagree with you politically than to play a Russian roulette with words every day - you never know which one is loaded and terminates your career.
I think it is pretty clear that part of the story here is missing. No company fires someone just for saying the word Nazi. there was a complaint made against them perhaps a misunderstanding.
The quote saying that “Nazis have no place at github” is particularly confusing.
My guess is that someone interpreted this as Trump supporters are Nazis and as an accusation of their coworkers
My guess is that someone interpreted this as Trump supporters are Nazis and as an accusation of their coworkers
I think that's it. It was viewed as an insult and someone invoked Godwin's Law against him. Only it turns out he was speaking correctly and accurately.
> “Others have already said so, but I just want to say it
> explicitly myself - I think that nazis were present at
> some protests on Jan 6, and that it’s very scary to see
> those ideas on display,” wrote one engineer in Slack.
I am yet to see evidence of Nazis being at the protests - I don't think anybody openly displaying support for Nazi ideals would find wide support in a pro-America crowd.
Assuming there were some in the crowd, I am slightly concerned that what was actually meant was "all of those people were Nazis", in which case this is dangerous rhetoric.
> “100% Nazis were there, and 1000000000% Nazis are scary as
> fuck and do not belong anywhere. PARTICULARLY AT GitHub!”
> responded another.
This idea that any group "do not belong anywhere" is quite scary. Once you have gained the title of 'Nazi' (which seems to be a more abused label in modern times), then there seems to be this idea that you have no place in society - and that you can have all services removed from you.
Even if you are a literal Nazi (or Communist, or <insert bad ideology>), as long as you abide by the laws of the land, you can be a functioning member of society, and as such need the same basic protections. These people should be allowed to open bank accounts, buy groceries, go to work, pay taxes, drink at a bar, etc. We can't de-humanize people because we disagree with the way they think.
> “Hubbers are free to express concerns about neo-Nazis,
> antisemitism, white supremacy or any other form of
> discrimination or harassment,” he wrote. “And of course,
> we expect Hubbers to be respectful, professional, and to
> follow GitHub policies on discrimination and harassment at
> all times.”
I miss the days when it was taboo to mention politics or religion in companies. I used to work with a "Nazi" and a "Communist" (as well as a whole range of political leanings), and we worked together fine. I've also worked with alcoholics and drug addicts. Generally we all agreed that if we want to do these things, we do it off company time.