Keys to a supersonic fighter jet for 10 bucks? My Startup.(migproject.org)
migproject.org
Keys to a supersonic fighter jet for 10 bucks? My Startup.
http://www.migproject.org
9 comments
It's always been a lifelong ambition of mine to own and fly a fighter jet. I was expecting to have to fork out at least $20 million for the plane and an arm and a leg for maintenance but it seems all I need is $10..?
Donated $10 in the off chance that you actually do end up purchasing the plane.
It's probably going to cost you $10 per person to get the keys cut and posted.
Good luck.
Donated $10 in the off chance that you actually do end up purchasing the plane.
It's probably going to cost you $10 per person to get the keys cut and posted.
Good luck.
Maybe I'm a little rusty on my common sense, but I'm /pretty/ sure if you don't have explicit permission from the US airforce flight control they're going to contact you and tell you to cease and desist, and that if you don't respond to their communications they'll gladly shoot you down. And that unless you are a member of the US Airforce they're more likely to shoot you down than give you permission to fly it.
Furthermore, if it's a supersonic fighter jet there are hella precautions about how you can fly it, to prevent blowing out people's windows. If someone doesn't follow those precautions consider yourself financially screwed.
I find it extremely doubtful in today's heightened security that Uncle Sam will be okay with just anyone out there operating a fighter jet (not even to mention supersonic fighter jet) because he or she paid $10 dollars for it. Please tell me someone thought of this.
Furthermore, if it's a supersonic fighter jet there are hella precautions about how you can fly it, to prevent blowing out people's windows. If someone doesn't follow those precautions consider yourself financially screwed.
I find it extremely doubtful in today's heightened security that Uncle Sam will be okay with just anyone out there operating a fighter jet (not even to mention supersonic fighter jet) because he or she paid $10 dollars for it. Please tell me someone thought of this.
You can buy a MiG right now from a variety of sellers in the US. It's legal. As for noise and safety regulations, I cracked open my copy of FAR-AIM (Federal Aviation Regulations) for 2009, and here's what it has to say about speed limits:
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.)
The other parts all relate to how you must fly even slower when you're in class C, D, or B airspace. Unless your minimum safe airspeed is greater than the maximum, in which case you may fly your minimum safe airspeed.
91.807 of the FAR-AIM prohibits civilian craft from passing Mach 1, but apparently it is legal to own such a plane.
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.)
The other parts all relate to how you must fly even slower when you're in class C, D, or B airspace. Unless your minimum safe airspeed is greater than the maximum, in which case you may fly your minimum safe airspeed.
91.807 of the FAR-AIM prohibits civilian craft from passing Mach 1, but apparently it is legal to own such a plane.
You may own a de-militarized fighter jet. To fly it, you'll need FAA approval (and it'll have to be inspected and made US-air worthy). You'll have to follow all of the rules for general aviation (as if you were in a Cessna), and then more. To actually pilot these planes, you'll have to be rated on them, which is the tricky part.
Here-y, have a link: http://www.classicjets.org/content/faq And if those aren't modern enough, here's a civilian owned harrier (yes, I know it's not supersonic... but it's even more modern!) http://www.eaa.ca/news/2008/2008-10-15_nalls.asp
Btw, airplane magazines routinely (usually like once a year) have a blurb about the latest ex-military jet purchased by some rich dude.
Here-y, have a link: http://www.classicjets.org/content/faq And if those aren't modern enough, here's a civilian owned harrier (yes, I know it's not supersonic... but it's even more modern!) http://www.eaa.ca/news/2008/2008-10-15_nalls.asp
Btw, airplane magazines routinely (usually like once a year) have a blurb about the latest ex-military jet purchased by some rich dude.
My ex military buddies pointed out something I hadn't thought of and that is the fact these things do not have keys. Military trucks don't even have keys, these I am sure do not.
Also my major concern would be hangar costs.
Also my major concern would be hangar costs.
Do the keys look somehow special or impressive? $10 for a pretty unique keychain doesn't sound too bad.
With 5,000 owners, it seems like it would be difficult to schedule enough time on it to become type certified.
On the other hand, it might be worth it to be able to go through your keychain and say, "... and these are my MiG keys".
On the other hand, it might be worth it to be able to go through your keychain and say, "... and these are my MiG keys".
Could be, but I imagine there will only be a handful of pilots actually looking to get their type certification, the other 4,995 probably are just looking for the "... and these are my MiG keys."
So the purchase price is 50k, but presumably the fuel and maintenance costs are significant? If you actually want to fly the thing I'm guessing your outlay is going to be more than $10?
True. Fuel and instructor costs are through the roof, not to mention maintenance. Probably primary use would be school field trips, open cockpit at local airshows, a place to take your first date, etc.
What a clever idea. Whether I fly it or not, I'm in for $10.
Why thank you. :) Seems to be blowing up a bit... Should have it within the month, at this rate.
This is a very cool idea. I have a few questions:
1. How will you do maintenance? If anybody qualified is allowed to fly it, there's going to be a lot of expensive wear and tear on it--do you know how much an engine overhaul costs on one of these? I'd be concerned about a "tragedy of the commons" situation, where everybody (everybody qualified for it) wants to fly as much as possible before it wears out or somebody crashes it.
2. How is this a startup? Specifically, what is the plan to make money or in fact do anything after the MiG is purchased? Sell maintenance as one of the requirements for actually being allowed to fly it? Or is it more "Help me buy a MiG so I can take it to airshows/sell rides, because nobody will come to Denver to fly it"? ;)
Anyway, this should be interesting.
Edit: I'd like to add that, based on some general figures I found online (max speed 2200 km/h, max range 1100 km, max fuel capacity 4380 L, all from http://www.flymig.com/aircraft/MiG-21/), you're looking at a minimum of several thousand dollars per hour to fly. I estimated that you could, all out, burn through a full tank of fuel in an hour at top speed, giving a cost of around $7000/hour at today's Jet A fuel prices.
1. How will you do maintenance? If anybody qualified is allowed to fly it, there's going to be a lot of expensive wear and tear on it--do you know how much an engine overhaul costs on one of these? I'd be concerned about a "tragedy of the commons" situation, where everybody (everybody qualified for it) wants to fly as much as possible before it wears out or somebody crashes it.
2. How is this a startup? Specifically, what is the plan to make money or in fact do anything after the MiG is purchased? Sell maintenance as one of the requirements for actually being allowed to fly it? Or is it more "Help me buy a MiG so I can take it to airshows/sell rides, because nobody will come to Denver to fly it"? ;)
Anyway, this should be interesting.
Edit: I'd like to add that, based on some general figures I found online (max speed 2200 km/h, max range 1100 km, max fuel capacity 4380 L, all from http://www.flymig.com/aircraft/MiG-21/), you're looking at a minimum of several thousand dollars per hour to fly. I estimated that you could, all out, burn through a full tank of fuel in an hour at top speed, giving a cost of around $7000/hour at today's Jet A fuel prices.
While the MiG 21 is a thirsty beast, the max range is given at a considerably more economical cruising speed of about 880km/h. Also, the 1100km max (typical) range is given without the external fuel tanks, so carrying only 2600L fuel. Considering this cuts the fuel cost to about 25% of your figure.
It's also worth noting that if you did fly at top speed, the primary expense would not be fuel, but engines. To put some perspective on it, with the R-25 engine of the MiG 21bis, the aircraft is limited to one minute of full afterburner in training and three minutes in wartime. The engine is subsequently removed and inspected. While I can't find figures for the R-11 engined MiG 21, I suspect that it too will run out of both fuel and engine in just a few minutes if you were to push it that hard.
It's also worth noting that if you did fly at top speed, the primary expense would not be fuel, but engines. To put some perspective on it, with the R-25 engine of the MiG 21bis, the aircraft is limited to one minute of full afterburner in training and three minutes in wartime. The engine is subsequently removed and inspected. While I can't find figures for the R-11 engined MiG 21, I suspect that it too will run out of both fuel and engine in just a few minutes if you were to push it that hard.
* How do you intend to pay for hangar space?
* What is the time between overhaul for the engine? My uneducated guess would put it at not more than 1000 hours, and quite possibly much less. When this is needed, how do you plan to pay for it?
* Generally, when something breaks (and it will) how will you pay to repair it?
* How do you plan to insure it? How much will this cost?
* How do you plan to hire mechanics to check the airworthiness of the plane? How frequently will this need to happen, and what will it cost?
These are all things that should be addressed from the start. As you do not address them, I get the sense that you have not properly considered just how staggeringly large these costs will be. Or are you just counting on nobody being able to get certification for it?
That said, I think it's vaguely doable if all you want is a non-flying display piece, though hangar costs still need to be addressed. Additionally, I personally am more inclined to give $10 to any of my local air museums which have more planes, now, than to give $10 so that I may someday be able to share a plane in Denver with 4999 other people.
P.S: If you do plan to pull it off, what variant are you planning to get? One of the twin-seat U variants to make training easier?