Late 40s, no job offers. Could a PhD help?
My skills are current. I’ve been a practicing full stack developer / data engineer for many years. I’ll admit I’m not as fast as I used to be (I blame it on being more risk adverse and taking more time to think things through). After 8 failed interviews, I’m starting to think my career may be over. So, would getting a PhD help at all?
16 comments
IMO unless you have a very specific field in mind which you believe will be extremely interested in your skills 3-5 years from now, I'd say "Hell no."
I say this as someone with a PhD (and as someone who's field quickly became irrelevant only a few years after graduation).
I say this as someone with a PhD (and as someone who's field quickly became irrelevant only a few years after graduation).
What field was that that became irrelevant?
Unlikely. The assumption is that if you get a Ph.D, you're going to want to use it and get paid commensurately for it. Very few businesses have problems they need a Ph.D to solve.
Depending on where you get your Ph.D from, it may not even get you much respect; academics are very status conscious people.
Depending on where you get your Ph.D from, it may not even get you much respect; academics are very status conscious people.
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No.
First, it would take you 5 years to get one.
Second. The goal of a PhD is to learn the limit of scientific knowledge at a very specific narrow area, and then make a novel contribution (which would be very limited, due to time constraint). Hence, it would not contribute to your general skill set.
Third. PhD research can be very frustrating and extremely risky since you are venturing to the unknown and at the same time, must produce constant results in order to get published.
So, overall, a Ph.D. mainly proves that you have the stamina and the capability to do risky intellectual work.
What I suggest is that you follow the market demand and go into the hyped area. Today I would recommend Kubernetes and microservices. Since the demand is far greater than the supply you should be able to get a job (at least as a consultant).
First, it would take you 5 years to get one.
Second. The goal of a PhD is to learn the limit of scientific knowledge at a very specific narrow area, and then make a novel contribution (which would be very limited, due to time constraint). Hence, it would not contribute to your general skill set.
Third. PhD research can be very frustrating and extremely risky since you are venturing to the unknown and at the same time, must produce constant results in order to get published.
So, overall, a Ph.D. mainly proves that you have the stamina and the capability to do risky intellectual work.
What I suggest is that you follow the market demand and go into the hyped area. Today I would recommend Kubernetes and microservices. Since the demand is far greater than the supply you should be able to get a job (at least as a consultant).
Since you're getting interviews, your best ROI will come from practicing interview skills such as solving algorithm problems, practicing pair programming, white boarding, doing system design problems, telling your story, and talking about previous work. Target the right roles and the right companies. Get referrals from friends, acquaintances, and people you meet networking. The job search has a lot of randomness, and is ultimately a numbers game. Keep grinding and you'll get offers.
Are you failing on the algorithm part? My girlfriend failed 80 interviews before landing a big offer.
There's also always project management with your experience :)
There's also always project management with your experience :)
80 interviews but I bet she learned a little bit from every interview. The bottom line is to not give up and learn from each interview on how to prep for the next one.
I definitely didn't perform well on the first few algorithm tests. I was rusty, and the questions took me by surprise. But, after doing more prep, I believe I nailed most of the later ones.
80 Interviews! Wow, I am out of touch.
80 Interviews! Wow, I am out of touch.
8 interviews isn’t a ton. You did prep and nailed algos - so what was the problem? 40 isn’t too old for sure at most places. It could be lack of relevant “showables” in which case you can go for a mid level position somewhere. Generally if you can pass algos you’ll get offers unless there’s personality red flags. Still - interview more.
Yeah, passing algos but still failing either means there's something deeply wrong with the company or some other behavioral question is causing issues.
Or ageism, appearance-ism, etc, but generally this market can't afford to be unfair like this right now in my opinion
Or ageism, appearance-ism, etc, but generally this market can't afford to be unfair like this right now in my opinion
Correct - experienced full stack dev that passes algos and no experience or personality red flags? You hire.
If you go for a PhD, do it because you want to expand your knowledge and education for the enlightenment of others. I know a few PhD folks in Cybersecurity and they’re one or two pay grades above me. Keep in mind they’re at the high end of this pay band, though. And they’re awesome to work with. The degree by itself will not garner you much more attention and could possibly categorize you as over-qualified much more frequently. The true mark of a person will always be their personality and ability to relate with a team. I’m almost 50. I work with a bunch of young (20’s - 30’s) people. And the influence they bring is refreshing. This is my second career, too. Your skills are transferable to an entirely new field as well. If I could do what you do I’d be significantly better at my job.
No, unless you specialize in a very tight subject that companies are clamoring to develop. Even then it's an iffy way to go unless you have the research that empowers your position.
Your best bet is to continue and figure out where you are failing. Take the time you have to create a portfolio that highlights your skills by taking on a few contract jobs even if you think they pay too little but choose carefully.
It used to be that certificates had little value over experience but these days they give you an edge over those that don't have them so I would start to see what certificates are most sought and get them.
By the way, 8 interview is not that many. You are giving up way too soon.
Your best bet is to continue and figure out where you are failing. Take the time you have to create a portfolio that highlights your skills by taking on a few contract jobs even if you think they pay too little but choose carefully.
It used to be that certificates had little value over experience but these days they give you an edge over those that don't have them so I would start to see what certificates are most sought and get them.
By the way, 8 interview is not that many. You are giving up way too soon.
Even perfect interviewees have a 50% chance of passing any given interview. Interview more.
It depends on what you want to do. Do you want to do machine learning, data science, or say statistics? Do you want to research and develop new types of databases? Do you enjoy math or at least applied math? .. then pursue a PhD. I would personally go for statistics or engineering since that will give you a bunch of skills that are lifetime skills.
An MBA would open up higher level management where you might be able to find something there. Sometimes I think med school might be worth it; we always need more doctors and you can work until you are 75 if you want. A lot of state med schools these days will waive tuition provided you serve in a rural community of that state after your residency for a few years. You definitely will get job security and high pay. I know a lot of later in life doctors for instance.
There's also entrepreneurship and starting your own company as well. Government contracts can be a way to get started.
Life is risk, but if you keep interviewing I am sure you will land something. The programming market is still expanding.
An MBA would open up higher level management where you might be able to find something there. Sometimes I think med school might be worth it; we always need more doctors and you can work until you are 75 if you want. A lot of state med schools these days will waive tuition provided you serve in a rural community of that state after your residency for a few years. You definitely will get job security and high pay. I know a lot of later in life doctors for instance.
There's also entrepreneurship and starting your own company as well. Government contracts can be a way to get started.
Life is risk, but if you keep interviewing I am sure you will land something. The programming market is still expanding.
> A lot of state med schools these days will waive tuition provided you serve in a rural community of that state after your residency for a few years. You definitely will get job security and high pay. I know a lot of later in life doctors for instance.
Any schools on the west coast? That sounds like a fair deal.
Any schools on the west coast? That sounds like a fair deal.
Kaisers new med school will be tuition free. NYU on the East coast. A bunch of others in between. The military will also put you through med school with a service commitment.
If possible, take sometime off and practice DS/Alog problems on leetcode. I don't know your location, but, there are plenty of data engineering jobs available (in general). But you need to practice DS/Algo for clearing most interviews.
Data Engineering is far from saturated, so I'd highlight my experience and focus on that, instead. And don't forget you just need to succeed once.
Have you ever hired anyone? Did you even look at the educational background of the candidate? Because I don't, I only look at the experience and skills.
What kinds of positions are you interviewing for, and what was the #1 thing the companies you interviewed with wanted in a hire?
Not sure - in all cases, I asked for feedback afterward, but all had policies of not giving feedback.
I only interviewed at places where I believed that I met most of the criteria. A couple were full-stack Angular / Node roles. The rest were Spark / Scala / Warehouse related.
I only interviewed at places where I believed that I met most of the criteria. A couple were full-stack Angular / Node roles. The rest were Spark / Scala / Warehouse related.
Try applying here if you know Scala https://boards.greenhouse.io/algorithmia/jobs/4202846002?gh_...
Assuming you are American there's TripleByte but who knows what the offers will be
Assuming you are American there's TripleByte but who knows what the offers will be
From this description, it seems to me you want to be a backend developer.
Ditch Angular, and go full backend. Stay with Scala if you like it, but read the market and make strategic decisions about the technology you interview for.
Ditch Angular, and go full backend. Stay with Scala if you like it, but read the market and make strategic decisions about the technology you interview for.