Saddle chair(en.wikipedia.org)
en.wikipedia.org
Saddle chair
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_chair
12 comments
You make it sound so complicated. Are you overweight? When I got my first Salli Twin due to sciatica I was sitting 14 hours a day on it in the first week.
Also, the expensive models are made in Finland while the $300 models are made in China for the outside-EU market.
Also, the expensive models are made in Finland while the $300 models are made in China for the outside-EU market.
I have a delicate ass.
Well THIS certainly is not a sentence I ever expected to read on HN!
Sitting on anything 14h/day is a recipe for disaster!
The same goes for standing if one has a standing desk, and for any other position.
You should vary your position regularly (every hour, for example). The simplest solution for this is a desk where the height can be changed easily (maybe with a motor), so one can sit for a while, then stand for a while, and so on.
You should vary your position regularly (every hour, for example). The simplest solution for this is a desk where the height can be changed easily (maybe with a motor), so one can sit for a while, then stand for a while, and so on.
I've seen desks like this at Staples. There's a simple linkage, and the entire desktop raises.
The simplest solution is a chair made for a standing desk.
I’ve done that but I never liked the lack of options for foot position. You either have your feet tucked back on the foot pegs or they’re hanging. Neither were optimal for me (maybe partly because I’m tall and having my feet on the pegs felt like i was “tuck g up”.
I know what you mean, having had to use those chairs myself, but a less than ideal chair is a less than ideal chair.
I only had to use the 'bad' chair because the good ones - with a proper foot rest - had been snagged.
I only had to use the 'bad' chair because the good ones - with a proper foot rest - had been snagged.
With breaks and exercise of course :P
Also, I have an extra Salli Twin I use while cooking and doing dishes in the kitchen.
Also, I have an extra Salli Twin I use while cooking and doing dishes in the kitchen.
> getting really stiff
Do you stretch?
Do you stretch?
Anyone interested in sitting posture and chair design should read "The Chair: Rethinking Culture, Body, and Design" by Galen Cranz.
It's a fascinating analysis of how chairs impact posture and the related biomechanics. It shows why oft-touted "lumbar support" does more harm than good, how attitudes to chairs and posture are affected by cultural expectations, and why there is no perfect chair, but with recommendations for how different chairs manage different tradeoffs -- she ultimately most highly recommends high stools which allow the body to maintain a 135° angle with full foot support -- which the saddle chair accomplishes.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Chair-Rethinking-Culture-Body-Design/...
It's a fascinating analysis of how chairs impact posture and the related biomechanics. It shows why oft-touted "lumbar support" does more harm than good, how attitudes to chairs and posture are affected by cultural expectations, and why there is no perfect chair, but with recommendations for how different chairs manage different tradeoffs -- she ultimately most highly recommends high stools which allow the body to maintain a 135° angle with full foot support -- which the saddle chair accomplishes.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Chair-Rethinking-Culture-Body-Design/...
The Capsico chair is another non-standard design where you can straddle the chair and lean you chest against the ‘back’. http://www.haginc.com/products/hag-capisco/
I'd call this the Will Riker chair.
The previous office I worked in had a bunch of Capisco chairs. I hated them, personally, but a lot of people loved them.
The only "ergonomic" chair I've ever like is another chair by Capisco's designer, Peter Opsvik, called Balans, now made by Varier [1]. It's a kneeling chair that rocks and supposedly forces you to exercise your core and maintain a good posture. It's fairly expensive ($400) for such a simple piece of wood, but you can find cheaper used ones on eBay.
Opsvik designed some crazy chairs. My favourite crazy chair of all time is his Globe chair [2]. The Gravity Balans is also weird, but probably great.
[1] https://varierchairs.com/product/variable-balans/
[2] https://www.ignant.com/2015/08/27/globe-furniture-by-peter-o...
[3] https://hiconsumption.com/2013/03/reclining-gravity-balans-c...
The only "ergonomic" chair I've ever like is another chair by Capisco's designer, Peter Opsvik, called Balans, now made by Varier [1]. It's a kneeling chair that rocks and supposedly forces you to exercise your core and maintain a good posture. It's fairly expensive ($400) for such a simple piece of wood, but you can find cheaper used ones on eBay.
Opsvik designed some crazy chairs. My favourite crazy chair of all time is his Globe chair [2]. The Gravity Balans is also weird, but probably great.
[1] https://varierchairs.com/product/variable-balans/
[2] https://www.ignant.com/2015/08/27/globe-furniture-by-peter-o...
[3] https://hiconsumption.com/2013/03/reclining-gravity-balans-c...
It would be great if the website had a picture of someone actually using the chair. The way it's oriented with the desk makes it look like you lean your back against the "backrest."
There's actually many ways to use the chair. You can use it like a normal chair (back against the back rest), lean on the back rest with the front of your chest (if you need support while leaning), use it like a saddle chair by sitting on the end of it, etc. This website has some pictures: https://www.capisco.ca
I'm not convinced by this concept at all! https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0200/1582/products/HAG_Cap...
Oh dear. That has "meme" written all over it!
I think the parent is suggesting that the scenario describe is the most usual way to use it, but not their most favorite way.
I have Capisco 8106 for about a year now (previously Aeron).
The nice thing about Capisco is there are quite a few ways to sit on it so you end up using different muscle groups during the day rather than constantly using just one. You need a height adjustable desk to pair it with this chair.
The nice thing about Capisco is there are quite a few ways to sit on it so you end up using different muscle groups during the day rather than constantly using just one. You need a height adjustable desk to pair it with this chair.
I agree, I slouch on it, but in various ways. It's quite comfy even sideways.
I'm using one for a couple of years now and would buy it again in a heartbeat. The best office chair I've ever sat in.
I end up doing this all the time with ordinary desk chairs.
I used to love https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneeling_chair as a kid.
Kneeling chairs are even nicer when they have a subtle rocking ability, rather than being planted flat
e.g. https://www.varierfurniture.com/en_gb/explore-our-chairs/kne...
e.g. https://www.varierfurniture.com/en_gb/explore-our-chairs/kne...
That's the Balans [1] (the original model of which is now marketed as Variable Balans), by Norwegian designer Peter Opsvik.
Opsvik was partly responsible for the wave of interest in ergonomic seating in the 1980s. He eventually wrote a book, Rethinking Sitting [2], about the topic.
[1] https://varierchairs.com/product/variable-balans/
[2] https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Sitting-Peter-Opsvik/dp/03...
Opsvik was partly responsible for the wave of interest in ergonomic seating in the 1980s. He eventually wrote a book, Rethinking Sitting [2], about the topic.
[1] https://varierchairs.com/product/variable-balans/
[2] https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Sitting-Peter-Opsvik/dp/03...
Cool - I love them and have several, but did not investigate much beyond hunting around to snag them for way less than retail. IIRC one was being advertised as Stokke.
Stokke used to make the Balans, and it was part of their "Movement by Stokke" range, but they spun it off into a new company in 2006.
Another product that was moved over to the Balans brand was the Move chair by Per Øie [1], which is an actual saddle chair.
[1] https://www.archiproducts.com/it/prodotti/varier-furniture/s...
Another product that was moved over to the Balans brand was the Move chair by Per Øie [1], which is an actual saddle chair.
[1] https://www.archiproducts.com/it/prodotti/varier-furniture/s...
What ever happened to those things? Seems like they were everywhere in the 80's and then they all disappeared.
There's a bunch at Staples.
I also just found some plans, might make one so it's adjustable my way: http://www.craftsmanspace.com/free-projects/kneeling-chair-p...
I also just found some plans, might make one so it's adjustable my way: http://www.craftsmanspace.com/free-projects/kneeling-chair-p...
I still have (and use) mine.
They look awkward to sit on, you actually have to try them to realise you naturally adopt an upright (not slumped) sitting position.
They look awkward to sit on, you actually have to try them to realise you naturally adopt an upright (not slumped) sitting position.
There are a couple sitting about in my office. One guy broke his foot climbing recently and is using one as a footrest at present.
You can still get them. I'm sitting in one right now.
I'm impulsive, I blame you for the future amazon purchase. Used to visit my dad's office as a young child and always loved his kneeling chair. Nostalgia here I come!
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I use one of these at work and it is wonderful. There are so many different sitting positions that it can support; kneeling, not kneeling, twist it around to get a slightly different spine alignment. It offers a lot of flexibility for someone who feels the need to adjust posture regularly to stay comfortable. It is also quite compact, which I also like.
Kneeling chairs can be quite bad for your knees. They place a lot of weight/force in uncommon places.
Do you have a citation for that?
From what I understand (and years of use) they merely place a small amount of weight on the front of your shins, which is at most merely uncomfortable for some people. (Most of your weight should be supported by your bottom.)
For an average human body, I have a hard time imagining what biomechanics could lead to a knee issue from it? A quick Google search didn't show anything.
From what I understand (and years of use) they merely place a small amount of weight on the front of your shins, which is at most merely uncomfortable for some people. (Most of your weight should be supported by your bottom.)
For an average human body, I have a hard time imagining what biomechanics could lead to a knee issue from it? A quick Google search didn't show anything.
Sadly, no. It's based on discussion with healthcare professionals (physiotherapists, orthopedic surgeons, ...)
I use one alternating between a Salli and an Ikea Markus. The greatest benefit to me is in greatly improved blood flow in legs and pelvis area. The second benefit is in providing natural temperature control in an area that counts. The third benefit is in making my core muscles work.
You still can slouch in the saddle especially if you don't have an elbow support or if your table is not tall enough. If your arms are not in a symmetrical position during the day, e.g. if you are a frequent mouse user, spine would tend to curve to the side of the hand that is further from the center. This can result in scoliosis.
Would I recommend one? Yes, if you have blood flow problems.
I noticed that if I'm doing exercises I can seat on whatever comfortably save for the bloodflow issue.
You still can slouch in the saddle especially if you don't have an elbow support or if your table is not tall enough. If your arms are not in a symmetrical position during the day, e.g. if you are a frequent mouse user, spine would tend to curve to the side of the hand that is further from the center. This can result in scoliosis.
Would I recommend one? Yes, if you have blood flow problems.
I noticed that if I'm doing exercises I can seat on whatever comfortably save for the bloodflow issue.
I've been using a saddle chair for about 7 years. I got it when I built my standup desk and wanted to alternate between standing and sitting, so I got a bar-height saddle chair (a little less common but it's made). That way whether I was standing or sitting, my eyes were at the same level w.r.t. to the screen.
That worked great in a setting where I was going and coming to my desk frequently and having to show stuff to others (beats making people bend down to watch a screen). Since then, that desk has moved to my home office and a few months ago, I adapted it to a sitting position but for a desk height that sits midway between a regular sitting desk and a standup desk. I still enjoy it for all-day work.
However, at the risk of stating the obvious, NO CHAIR is suitable for 8 hours sitting down. Regardless of your setup, getting up and taking breaks is necessary. Go for a little walk: both your back and your mind will thank you. Even better: do some stretching exercises during breaks—a goal I aspire to but haven't yet trained myself to do on a consistent basis.
That worked great in a setting where I was going and coming to my desk frequently and having to show stuff to others (beats making people bend down to watch a screen). Since then, that desk has moved to my home office and a few months ago, I adapted it to a sitting position but for a desk height that sits midway between a regular sitting desk and a standup desk. I still enjoy it for all-day work.
However, at the risk of stating the obvious, NO CHAIR is suitable for 8 hours sitting down. Regardless of your setup, getting up and taking breaks is necessary. Go for a little walk: both your back and your mind will thank you. Even better: do some stretching exercises during breaks—a goal I aspire to but haven't yet trained myself to do on a consistent basis.
The article doesn't mention if this is actually good for ergonomics. Can anyone comment on this?
This article talks about some sitting techniques, and since the wiki article mentions the angle change I assume the back would be straightened out like this. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/08/13/6360250...
"Adapting to a saddle chair takes time and requires a new kind of attitude towards sitting. The most common reason for using a saddle chair is that the users feel it is healthier for the back and legs than a standard chair. An intervention study on schoolchildren[1] found that initially saddle chairs were liked better, but the difference leveled off over time."
Though
"A divided seat reduces pressure on the perineum and lowers the temperature in the genital area. A divided seat is thought to be healthier, especially for men, than a solid seat."
Though
"A divided seat reduces pressure on the perineum and lowers the temperature in the genital area. A divided seat is thought to be healthier, especially for men, than a solid seat."
Claims "that the users feel it is healthier" don't really answer that question; self-reported feelings are misleading and many posture problems, damage/deformations to spine and long-term pain is caused by people slumping in positions that feel comfy to them.
Is it healthier, is there any evidence for that?
Is it healthier, is there any evidence for that?
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Honest question: If these are so great then why didn't they take off at some point in the past few thousand years? If they were at least equal to conventional chairs you'd think they would have since they obviously require less material to make.
Probably because planar things are easier and cheaper to make with limited machinery, instead of sculpting a shape out of a large block of material.
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My wife is a hair stylist and they have these around salons for stylists who've injured their leg or otherwise can't stand while doing haircuts.
At home I use the Hag Capisco, it helps but it is no panacea
Humans aren't built to sit all day. This is much better [1]
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https://xkcd.com/1329/
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https://xkcd.com/1329/
There is the treadmill desk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jcd5XV4VL8
* It doesn't force you into a straight-back posture, but it makes it as easy as slouching. If you stop concentrating you don't fall into a poor posture.
* There's really only one way to sit on the chair, with your sit-bones taking most of the pressure. In a normal office chair I can switch between a set of different slouches to move the pressure between points, but not with this chair. I bought a height adjustable desk to compensate and switch between sitting and standing several times a day.
* It takes a fair amount of strength. I don't remember if it took me time to build muscle initially, and on a day to day basis I don't notice any tiredness or anything, but when I'm sick it is _really_ hard to sit on this chair - I feel like I'm going to pass out (maybe not to that extent, but it's quite noticable).
* I bought the first one for $800, but AFAICT they've come down to $300ish this year maybe due to competition. They're sturdy and really nicely built, but in the end it's just a stool with some curves.
* May or not be related, but I found my back getting really stiff because it is literally straight all day - sleeping, standing up, sitting on the Salli chair, etc, which worries me a bit.
* You sit at a much higher level than with normal chairs, so you'll need a higher desk to accommodate.