The woman who accidentally ticked: 'I am a terrorist'(bbc.co.uk)
bbc.co.uk
The woman who accidentally ticked: 'I am a terrorist'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45678517
8 comments
> These forms are such bullshit and are only here to give authorities leverage against you at a later date incase you did purger yourself. Then they have it in writing that you lied.
They're not bullshit. The forms' design is what gives the government unambiguous grounds to revoke the citizenship of foreign war criminals, once their crimes are discovered. The fact that they lied during their naturalization means it was never actually valid.
They're not bullshit. The forms' design is what gives the government unambiguous grounds to revoke the citizenship of foreign war criminals, once their crimes are discovered. The fact that they lied during their naturalization means it was never actually valid.
>The forms' design is what gives the government unambiguous grounds to revoke the citizenship of foreign war criminals, once their crimes are discovered.
No, they are what makes the person (even if they never apply for citizenship; the form has nothing to do with citizenship applications) unquestionably a criminal under US law if they've ever done the thing asked about in the question and denied it on the form, because US law doesn't unconditionally exert universal jurisdiction over all instances of the international crimes identified, but it does over lying to the US government.
No, they are what makes the person (even if they never apply for citizenship; the form has nothing to do with citizenship applications) unquestionably a criminal under US law if they've ever done the thing asked about in the question and denied it on the form, because US law doesn't unconditionally exert universal jurisdiction over all instances of the international crimes identified, but it does over lying to the US government.
It's true that they may serve their intended purpose. But only by exposing innocent people to needless risk. Isn't there a better way to achieve the intended purpose?
For example, could the same not be achieved by passing a law allowing the government to revoke the citizenship of anyone who meets these criteria?
edit: Or perhaps a better UI? For example, this is just a checkbox you could accidentally tick. Perhaps it would be made a little harder - raise a warning perhaps? The real problem i think is that visa authorities can design the worst UIs and get away with it since they are an effective monopoly.
For example, could the same not be achieved by passing a law allowing the government to revoke the citizenship of anyone who meets these criteria?
edit: Or perhaps a better UI? For example, this is just a checkbox you could accidentally tick. Perhaps it would be made a little harder - raise a warning perhaps? The real problem i think is that visa authorities can design the worst UIs and get away with it since they are an effective monopoly.
ESTA is for non-immigrant travel only.
I used to wonder too why would anyone answer yes if that was really their intent.
I was told that this was a technicality: you plan on assassinating the president (or whatever the form asks these days) but you answered no. Now you can be charged for lying on your immigration document which gives the government a lot more leverage and opens more avenues to convict you (because lying is bad mmmkay). I don't know how much truth there is to it but it makes more sense than having the question hoping someone with bad intentions will have a lapse of judgement and decide to be truthful on the form.
I was told that this was a technicality: you plan on assassinating the president (or whatever the form asks these days) but you answered no. Now you can be charged for lying on your immigration document which gives the government a lot more leverage and opens more avenues to convict you (because lying is bad mmmkay). I don't know how much truth there is to it but it makes more sense than having the question hoping someone with bad intentions will have a lapse of judgement and decide to be truthful on the form.
On the contrary perhaps it can be argued it lessens the crime: there wasn't intent (on entering the country)!
I recently (as of about 5 weeks ago) stopped working in gun sales. (Relevance in a moment.).
While I think this case is absolutely outrageous...
There’s a form called the 4473 that you fill out when you purchase a firearm in the US. (Among other forms depending on state ).
This form has a bank of questions such as “are you the actual purchaser of the firearm” to “are you an addict and illegal user of drugs”. And while you would think no one would answer “yes” to the wrong questions, people do.
I will also say, I wish literacy (is that the right word here, it’s very early in the morning where I am at ) was a requirement. A frequent question I would get for one question, which read “have you ever renounced your US citizenship” would be variations of “is this asking me if I’m a Mexican?” Or “re-no-unsed, is that like a place?”
Though perhaps I need to be less judge mental. I denied a lot of sales.
While I think this case is absolutely outrageous...
There’s a form called the 4473 that you fill out when you purchase a firearm in the US. (Among other forms depending on state ).
This form has a bank of questions such as “are you the actual purchaser of the firearm” to “are you an addict and illegal user of drugs”. And while you would think no one would answer “yes” to the wrong questions, people do.
I will also say, I wish literacy (is that the right word here, it’s very early in the morning where I am at ) was a requirement. A frequent question I would get for one question, which read “have you ever renounced your US citizenship” would be variations of “is this asking me if I’m a Mexican?” Or “re-no-unsed, is that like a place?”
Though perhaps I need to be less judge mental. I denied a lot of sales.
This is an excellent example of one of the three pillars of classic test theory (the basis of which such forms should be based), validity:
Is this parameter measuring what I want to measure?
This is an examplariously hilarious case of absolutely not. Saved.
Is this parameter measuring what I want to measure?
This is an examplariously hilarious case of absolutely not. Saved.
Note that 'terrorist' is a larger group of people than some might imagine. My favorite example is the "Animal Liberation Front", a group of militant self-proclaimed animal lovers that, after burning down enough buildings, got on the FBI's "domestic terrorist" list.
So if you are member of the ALF, you'd have to tick this box; Otherwise it'll be another item on the list you can get arrested for.
[1] is a list of organizations on the US' 'domestic terrorism' list.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorism_in_the_Unit...
So if you are member of the ALF, you'd have to tick this box; Otherwise it'll be another item on the list you can get arrested for.
[1] is a list of organizations on the US' 'domestic terrorism' list.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorism_in_the_Unit...
[ ] Yes, I am a psychopathic axe murderer looking for my next victim.
[ ] Yes, I am avoiding taxes that would make the Panama Papers blush.
[ ] Yes, I am a going to Bermuda to marry my underage girlfriend.
[ ] Yes, I am a terrorist, the bombs are at home.
This was without a doubt my worst fear when filling out the visa application form. I went back and rechecked five times, just to ensure I didn't actually declare myself a terrorist.
Now, I know what happens.
Now, I know what happens.
Can you imagine if your browser or some add-on decided you could auto-fill info. on a form like that, and inappropriately checked the box or filled the radio button or whatever?
Add AI, automation and thought UIs... thoughtcrime is upon us.
Moreover, imagine illicit drones that have weapons or explosives that operate with AI and thought-control... you think about killing your boss, but you forgot to think "you didn't mean it" that the drone shouldn't do it. Whoops.
Moreover, imagine illicit drones that have weapons or explosives that operate with AI and thought-control... you think about killing your boss, but you forgot to think "you didn't mean it" that the drone shouldn't do it. Whoops.
We don't have to imagine. It just happened.
Same goes for the old form that asks if you were part of the nazi party in 1939-1945 even thought you were born much later.
These forms are such bullshit and are only here to give authorities leverage against you at a later date incase you did purger yourself. Then they have it in writing that you lied.