Has Dell Dropped Ubuntu Linux?(pcmag.com)
pcmag.com
Has Dell Dropped Ubuntu Linux?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2366953,00.asp
11 comments
> I don't know why they've dropped it, why they never gave it a proper shot.
One reason may be because Ubuntu stills expect users to do an OS upgrade - which Dell doesn't have the resources every 6 months - to get newer software. If you want an up to date desktop app, like Firefox, officially - ie, without headache-installs via tarballs or source, you have to upgrade to the next release of Ubuntu. That's a dealbreaker for a lot of support organizations.
One reason may be because Ubuntu stills expect users to do an OS upgrade - which Dell doesn't have the resources every 6 months - to get newer software. If you want an up to date desktop app, like Firefox, officially - ie, without headache-installs via tarballs or source, you have to upgrade to the next release of Ubuntu. That's a dealbreaker for a lot of support organizations.
I think once you're at "properly configured" the same can be said for Windows (most likely XP).
Not really. Windows still lacks one of Ubuntu's killer features (package management), and virus scanners don't always work.
That and a Linux terminal is much nicer to work with than Command Prompt.
That and a Linux terminal is much nicer to work with than Command Prompt.
What really, really, pisses me off is that the Windows version that they seem to ship a default installation which lacks some features (my netbook came with Windows Starter, which, I don't know, just sounds bad), and to upgrade costs serious money.
I would be much happier with MS if they would just release different versions for different needs and let me choose which version of the OS I needed and change it at will. The fact that I can do this with Linux is what made me switch in the first place.
And Ubuntu Netbook Remix blows the doors off of Windows 7 Starter for a netbook OS (I assume that this still applies now that they call it Netbook Edition, also).
I would be much happier with MS if they would just release different versions for different needs and let me choose which version of the OS I needed and change it at will. The fact that I can do this with Linux is what made me switch in the first place.
And Ubuntu Netbook Remix blows the doors off of Windows 7 Starter for a netbook OS (I assume that this still applies now that they call it Netbook Edition, also).
That's a very legitimate gripe, not just when you're buying a netbook but a consumer PC in general. Chances are, unless you are very careful, you're going to get something you didn't quite want. My point was if the standard for comparison is 'properly configured Ubuntu' then its match is 'properly configured Windows'. I can't really see a glaring advantage of one over the other, both taking particular pride of being top of their specific vertical of unusability.
It's just too bad that so many netbooks come with poorly supported wireless options that one has to resort to using ndiswrapper (which doesn't always work either!).
The other day I bought an Asus Eee PC 1001P only to find that Ubuntu's netbook edition doesn't work out of the box -- I had to do a bunch of google searches, then compile my own wireless driver to make it work. It sucks that Linux still struggles on the basic stuff like driver support, but excels everywhere else. Ndiswrapper only worked half the time on the eeepc, but I managed to find an alpha version of a native atheros driver that made it work much better.
The other day I bought an Asus Eee PC 1001P only to find that Ubuntu's netbook edition doesn't work out of the box -- I had to do a bunch of google searches, then compile my own wireless driver to make it work. It sucks that Linux still struggles on the basic stuff like driver support, but excels everywhere else. Ndiswrapper only worked half the time on the eeepc, but I managed to find an alpha version of a native atheros driver that made it work much better.
How many end-users have you ever heard say 'I wish my computer had better (or any) package management/terminal'.
How many users have you seen saying "I need a better firewall, and upto date antivirus patches and I dont want drivers in my kernel taking my entire system down"?
But most of them expect a well functioning secure computer whose speed does not go down over time and one which doesnt crash often.
Users might not ask for package management but once they discover it they will appreciate "i dont have to go looking for software on twenty different websites and I dont have to bother to check websites for updates" - updates via windows update center for non microsoft software is an idea that should be much farther along than it is right now - have you ever been annoyed by flash, google products, adobe products, itune all having their own update listeners prompting you for updates all the time ? Well if package management and integrated updates were in place you would have just one update center.
Integrated updates are built into both Windows and OS X. Have been for a long time. Both of these rather popular consumer OS's surely have their problems. But the idea that a Linux desktop is somehow more user-friendly or accessible because it has 'package management' or an awesome terminal is absurd. I somewhat suspect that sort of dreadful idea is part of the reason why there is no competitive Linux-based consumer OS, to date.
The updates found in Ubuntu go well beyond what's seen with OS X and Windows. A huge number of apps get updates as well.
Also, adding software is much easier. It's more like having a built-in software store. Vast numbers of free apps can be browsed and installed without even needing to use the web browser. Having the software available in a repository is much safer than looking around the web. It's not uncommon for Windows users to be tricked into installing things that do more harm than good. As with the App store for the iPhone, a central distribution tested repository reduces the likelihood of problems.
I wouldn't make sweeping claims about Ubuntu based on a couple of characteristics but since you used the word "accessible" I'll go as far as to say that it certainly applies to Ubuntu apps and updates. The free software is enough to meet the needs of many (it goes way beyond what Windows comes with), and the freedom from the need of AV software help make things faster than Windows.
I love OS X, but also enjoy Ubuntu and have found that installing it has worked well when dealing with Windows friends hit with malware. Some keep Windows around to dual boot into for a few games, but all have been quite happy with all net time and most everything else being in Ubuntu. Unlike OS X, Ubuntu comes with a pretty good assortment of games. That's one of the reasons I often install it even on Macs (in VirtualBox which is a free VM).
There's very little to configure and it certainly has no grief comparable to trying to strip the crapware out of many vendors default Windows installs.
Consumers buying generic PCs certainly should pressure their vendors to offer machines without Windows (and without charging them for it). And if they do want Windows, it shouldn't be loaded with crapware. On many machines that more than doubles the boot time.
There are plenty of fast-enough PCs that end up in recycle bins and at thrift stores because of malware. Instead of a new machine, many could do quite well with one of those running Ubuntu. It's free. Don't be shy, try it.
I wouldn't make sweeping claims about Ubuntu based on a couple of characteristics but since you used the word "accessible" I'll go as far as to say that it certainly applies to Ubuntu apps and updates. The free software is enough to meet the needs of many (it goes way beyond what Windows comes with), and the freedom from the need of AV software help make things faster than Windows.
I love OS X, but also enjoy Ubuntu and have found that installing it has worked well when dealing with Windows friends hit with malware. Some keep Windows around to dual boot into for a few games, but all have been quite happy with all net time and most everything else being in Ubuntu. Unlike OS X, Ubuntu comes with a pretty good assortment of games. That's one of the reasons I often install it even on Macs (in VirtualBox which is a free VM).
There's very little to configure and it certainly has no grief comparable to trying to strip the crapware out of many vendors default Windows installs.
Consumers buying generic PCs certainly should pressure their vendors to offer machines without Windows (and without charging them for it). And if they do want Windows, it shouldn't be loaded with crapware. On many machines that more than doubles the boot time.
There are plenty of fast-enough PCs that end up in recycle bins and at thrift stores because of malware. Instead of a new machine, many could do quite well with one of those running Ubuntu. It's free. Don't be shy, try it.
How many non apple updates have you seen in the apple update center ? How many non microsoft updates have you seen in the microsoft update center ?
As of Mac OS X Snow Leopard, installation and updating of printer drivers get handled by Apple's Software Update.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/02/09/apples_snow_le...
Ofcourse, those drivers are still curated by Apple. Back in 2004, Apple flirted with the idea of opening up Software Update for third parties, but has since decided against it.
"The computer company fears that third party developers could accidently release buggy or infected software updates, which would ultimately effect the Mac OS X operating system, causing customers to fault Apple."
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/04/07/13/apple_nixes_th...
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/02/09/apples_snow_le...
Ofcourse, those drivers are still curated by Apple. Back in 2004, Apple flirted with the idea of opening up Software Update for third parties, but has since decided against it.
"The computer company fears that third party developers could accidently release buggy or infected software updates, which would ultimately effect the Mac OS X operating system, causing customers to fault Apple."
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/04/07/13/apple_nixes_th...
Btw thanks for including links!
Maybe the feature could be added as an opt-in for the user. This is what ubuntu does - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu#Adding... , works great.
Also the fact that random regular company can actually host their own apt repo and ask their users to add it to their apt configuration and then receive updates via the System Updater is kind of neat. There are several companies which do this - cloudera being among one of them, virtualbox being another.
Most Mac apps do auto updating, not via Apple's infrastructure mind you, but at least in a much nicer way than Windows apps.
How many end-users have you ever heard say 'I wish my Treo had an app store'?
Agreed. It's not like Microsoft ships its retail versions of Windows with trial AV-software, crapware and browser toolbars. OEMs like Dell do.
Come to think of it, the retail version of Windows has sobered down quite a bit, what with Movie Maker, Windows Mail, Messenger, and Photo Gallery only available for download, instead of being tied into the standard installation.
In the EU, one can even purchase Windows without Media Player and Internet Explorer. I think of the aforementioned programs as crapware, so imo, it's heading into the right direction.
Ofcourse, I'm speaking of the current version, Windows 7, which definitely wasn't designed for underpowered laptops. It's like hacking Mac OS X Snow Leopard to work on a netbook: it might work, but it's not going to be as fast as Android or WebOS on the same machine. On the other hand, Windows XP really shouldn't be shipped with new computers, outdated and unsafe as it is.
Since Microsoft really has no suitable offering of Windows for netbooks, I completely understand why every major computer manufacturer wanted to buy Palm Inc, even besides the patent portfolio.
Come to think of it, the retail version of Windows has sobered down quite a bit, what with Movie Maker, Windows Mail, Messenger, and Photo Gallery only available for download, instead of being tied into the standard installation.
In the EU, one can even purchase Windows without Media Player and Internet Explorer. I think of the aforementioned programs as crapware, so imo, it's heading into the right direction.
Ofcourse, I'm speaking of the current version, Windows 7, which definitely wasn't designed for underpowered laptops. It's like hacking Mac OS X Snow Leopard to work on a netbook: it might work, but it's not going to be as fast as Android or WebOS on the same machine. On the other hand, Windows XP really shouldn't be shipped with new computers, outdated and unsafe as it is.
Since Microsoft really has no suitable offering of Windows for netbooks, I completely understand why every major computer manufacturer wanted to buy Palm Inc, even besides the patent portfolio.
Are there any good current options for something that comes preinstalled with a reasonably normal version of Ubuntu or Debian and works well? It seems a lot of the preinstalled-Linux netbooks come with some sort of manufacturer-customized version of Linux, which I'm worried will cause problems down the line for upgrades. I'm confident that I can upgrade a standard Ubuntu or Debian install for years, but if it has some manufacturer-hacked install, I'm much less confident how long the support and updates will last (worse if it's a manufacturer-customized kernel, in which case I'm not even confident that it'll boot after an upgrade).
System76 specializes in Linux machines:
http://www.system76.com/index.php?cPath=28
http://www.system76.com/index.php?cPath=28
Five years later we will discover 70% of this quarters Dell revenue came from payments from Microsoft for being Windows exclusive.
I know you're just trying to be funny. Hopefully. But it is hard for me to imagine that selling laptops with Ubuntu was ever a profitable endeavor.
Yes I meant it as a joke. I do realise that if many people dont buy a particular configuration it would be less profitable because the expenditure involved in keeping a particular configuration alive is amortized over fewer units sold.
That being said - there is a case where its more profitable in the long run for a company like dell to sell an upstart like AMD / ubuntu which is not pulling in the margins yet - the case where the upstart is starting to gain traction.
Sure. But I don't think in this case the upstart has been gaining any traction.
Search google trends to compare osx,fedora,ubuntu. You will be surprised. I would paste a link but am on a mobile device which lacks cut and paste.
There are all kinds of problems with this. For one, it could just indicate that Ubuntu has more problems than other OSen and thus needs more searches. The very fact that Ubuntu has a higher number on the trend lines indicates that there are some serious problems with using this method to do the comparison.
This (http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=11) seems a more direct way to compare the shares and seem to indicate Linux is basically flat over the last couple of years. It certainly doesn't indicate any imminent opportunity that Dell might miss here. Even your trend graph shows a substantial decline in Ubuntu searches over the last year.
This (http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=11) seems a more direct way to compare the shares and seem to indicate Linux is basically flat over the last couple of years. It certainly doesn't indicate any imminent opportunity that Dell might miss here. Even your trend graph shows a substantial decline in Ubuntu searches over the last year.
I think near all of the time Linux sales are chalked up as "Windows sales" anyhow.
In my current job, and in my previous job as well, all the tech staff PCs are corporate order Dells/Acers/whatever. They all come with Windows, and the first thing the developer/ops person does is installs Linux.
It's basically easier to do it that way than to communicate the Linux requirement back through to whoever is actually ordering the PC.
I think the only time either organisation doesn't preorder with Windows by default is for servers.
In my current job, and in my previous job as well, all the tech staff PCs are corporate order Dells/Acers/whatever. They all come with Windows, and the first thing the developer/ops person does is installs Linux.
It's basically easier to do it that way than to communicate the Linux requirement back through to whoever is actually ordering the PC.
I think the only time either organisation doesn't preorder with Windows by default is for servers.
Just over a year ago I got a dell mini 9 with linux for my dad. There was no way he was going to use linux. It just confused him and nothing worked without first taking some action or involved explanation. It was all just too much for him.
I installed OSX 10.5 [1]. I told him the only rule is no Apple Software Updates (until I had a chance to patch it). It was my nth attempt to get him to leave Windows and it finally worked. After some massaging by me - Everything just worked. Maybe not the same way - but it worked. And it was more productive than using his old borked windows install. When linux can provide a similar experience they will gain (more) traction. I don't agree with Dell dropping Linux but I understand it. I can just imagine all the confused users calling in because they can't install some windows game or windows program.
There was another reason the Mac didn't happen sooner. Price. There was no way he was going to shell out for a mac. He had the money. He just couldn't justify spending 3x to get a Mac. We'll see if price is still an obstacle now that he's a daily Mac user. And this is another (obvious) strong point for Ubuntu. In my opinion they've done a good job leveraging "being free" in the netbook market where 25% of the cost can be the OS (/cough Windows).
[1] http://www.mydellmini.com/forum/mac-os-x/
I installed OSX 10.5 [1]. I told him the only rule is no Apple Software Updates (until I had a chance to patch it). It was my nth attempt to get him to leave Windows and it finally worked. After some massaging by me - Everything just worked. Maybe not the same way - but it worked. And it was more productive than using his old borked windows install. When linux can provide a similar experience they will gain (more) traction. I don't agree with Dell dropping Linux but I understand it. I can just imagine all the confused users calling in because they can't install some windows game or windows program.
There was another reason the Mac didn't happen sooner. Price. There was no way he was going to shell out for a mac. He had the money. He just couldn't justify spending 3x to get a Mac. We'll see if price is still an obstacle now that he's a daily Mac user. And this is another (obvious) strong point for Ubuntu. In my opinion they've done a good job leveraging "being free" in the netbook market where 25% of the cost can be the OS (/cough Windows).
[1] http://www.mydellmini.com/forum/mac-os-x/
The 'elephant in the room' is the TOTAL lack of interest from governmental departments that deal with competition issues (in the UK, the Office of Fair Trading). If a manufacturer wants to recommend - and support - only Windows, that's OK. But it's illegal to tie Windows to their computer products. They must offer, on demand, a machine without a pre-installed OS.
I'm still trying to get a refund for the Windows Tax on my Samsung laptop. But when even the OFT seems to have been subverted, what does one do?
I know what I'M going to do. Corruption must be crushed, utterly.
I'm still trying to get a refund for the Windows Tax on my Samsung laptop. But when even the OFT seems to have been subverted, what does one do?
I know what I'M going to do. Corruption must be crushed, utterly.
I wonder how much money they're getting from Intel for this?
Canonical should SELL their product to newbies: but a CD, it costs you less than your anti-virus software, we give you 30 days of support and you get an office suice for free, too. All for $49.99 - it's a great deal!
Hell with Dell.
A properly configured Ubuntu installation absolutely beats the pants off Windows for typical netbook tasks. Fast, stable, no viruses, no freaking installers adding crapware and "toolbars" to your browser. All the software you could ever need on a netbook: Chrome, Rhythmbox, VLC, Skype, Spotify, OpenOffice (if Google Docs doesn't do it for you).
I don't know why they've dropped it, why they never gave it a proper shot. They could have really set themselves apart from the sea of netbook manufacturers. I'm waiting for someone to come along and happily eat their lunch.