The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout(drivetribe.com)
drivetribe.com
The strange magic of Swindon’s seven-in-one roundabout
https://drivetribe.com/p/the-strange-magic-of-swindons-7-e8gdewkCRaaWk5ZfAeiFEg?iid=Yno6Ck8DQgSx_TyrWe_35Q
15 comments
I used to live just south of Swindon and use to go across the Magic Roundabout regularly. It is completely nuts. My technique was just to put my foot down, go straight across and just pray - somehow I survived it. Even been across it multiple times in a Luton Van - at least cars give you a wide berth...
Interesting topic but the article itself has no detail, just lots of advertising.
I think the focus of the article is meant to be the video.
That, and the video had that very insulting 'brexit' joke. Poor taste.
Are we insulted at the mere mention of Brexit by non-Brits now? How bizarre.
(Actually - that gives me hope. If the shame gets too much, we as a nation might do the most British thing and quietly pretend it never happened)
(Actually - that gives me hope. If the shame gets too much, we as a nation might do the most British thing and quietly pretend it never happened)
It's more that they're shoehorning such a divisive political event into an otherwise completely unrelated article that insults me.
The connection is tenuous - brexit only being mentioned because it happened in Britain.
It just gave me the distasteful feeling that brexit was the only part of british culture - other than our penchant for roundabouts - that this commentator knew about. Part of british culture that half of the country probably still feels burned by.
The connection is tenuous - brexit only being mentioned because it happened in Britain.
It just gave me the distasteful feeling that brexit was the only part of british culture - other than our penchant for roundabouts - that this commentator knew about. Part of british culture that half of the country probably still feels burned by.
Yep, sooner we get to the point that the average person would punch you in the face than admit to supporting Brexit the better.
More generally, if we want Britain to stop being a laughing stock, we need to stop acting like one.
More generally, if we want Britain to stop being a laughing stock, we need to stop acting like one.
Is Swindon really better known for its art galleries than its ludicrous roundabout? It does have a massive train museum though, if you like that sort of thing.
Fun fact: you can go the wrong way around the magic roundabout due to its lovecraftian geometry.
Fun fact: you can go the wrong way around the magic roundabout due to its lovecraftian geometry.
There are several magic roundabouts - I grew up near High Wycombe which has one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout#Magic_roundabout
The Swindon one is notable because it was the first, and because it has the tightest geometry, which makes it harder to see how it works.
The Swindon one is notable because it was the first, and because it has the tightest geometry, which makes it harder to see how it works.
Hemel Hempstead, North of London, has an even better one.
https://goo.gl/maps/aAq7pzA45eR2
It's actually 6 roundabouts forming a seventh (the Swindon one is only five forming a sixth) and it's also over a waterway.
As the taxi drove us through that madness, my boss turned to me and said "okay, you were right, it's best we didn't rent a car and try to drive to ourselves".
https://goo.gl/maps/aAq7pzA45eR2
It's actually 6 roundabouts forming a seventh (the Swindon one is only five forming a sixth) and it's also over a waterway.
As the taxi drove us through that madness, my boss turned to me and said "okay, you were right, it's best we didn't rent a car and try to drive to ourselves".
It's not the number of roundabouts that makes Swindon hard, it's the number of lanes per junction and the proximity of the spot islands to each other.
For reference, Colchester also has a "magic roundabout" with the same structure of Hemel's but Swindon's is easily the worst of the 3 because the whole thing operates as one junction due to how tightly packed the roundabouts are. Whereas Hemel and Colchester can be treated as 6 and 5 (respectively) separate junctions circling an island. That makes a huge difference when driving around these kinds of roundabouts.
For reference, Colchester also has a "magic roundabout" with the same structure of Hemel's but Swindon's is easily the worst of the 3 because the whole thing operates as one junction due to how tightly packed the roundabouts are. Whereas Hemel and Colchester can be treated as 6 and 5 (respectively) separate junctions circling an island. That makes a huge difference when driving around these kinds of roundabouts.
My taxi driver at Hemel decided the inner circle was one giant American roundabout and ignored the other little ones.
I used to work in Hemel, I never saw an accident. Affectionately known as the 'magic roundabout' (after the children's show)
It worked surprising well, if a little 'when all you've got is circles, everything looks like a roundabout' solution.
https://goo.gl/maps/QZJzPG7wDE22
It worked surprising well, if a little 'when all you've got is circles, everything looks like a roundabout' solution.
https://goo.gl/maps/QZJzPG7wDE22
The Plough is much simpler to handle imo, because you're only directly dealing with one roundabout at a time, the "meta-roundabout" is more incidental rather than the mess of Swindon.
Not quite strictly true. You can traverse the inner roundabout without having go full circle around each of the satellites.
True but these functionally behave like "roundabout bypasses": if you want to take a right at the roundabout, for the biggest and most engorged roundabouts around here it's common to have a lane letting you turn without entering the roundabout.
Do most people just simply ignore the outer roundabouts? Otherwise I don't know how to explain this picture: https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/wired_see-h...
There's a group of cars on the very right simply driving through the roundabout instead of around the center dot; and the two red cars on the left side of the image also couldn't have ended up where they are without ignoring the roundabout right behind them.
There's a group of cars on the very right simply driving through the roundabout instead of around the center dot; and the two red cars on the left side of the image also couldn't have ended up where they are without ignoring the roundabout right behind them.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but that photo appears to be from some sort of staged shoot, which probably explains why it's not being used as you'd expect.
Edit: Here's another photo that appears to be from the same event http://matrixdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/MTX_MAGIC_...
And a photo of the roundabout in a more typical setting: http://www.boostinspiration.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/S...
Edit: Here's another photo that appears to be from the same event http://matrixdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/MTX_MAGIC_...
And a photo of the roundabout in a more typical setting: http://www.boostinspiration.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/S...
That's a staged photo. They "paraded" 60 vintage cars to celebrate the town's anniversary. Mentioned closer to the end of the video.
"Only one fatal crash in five years." (mentioned in video)
That's hardly a good fact to support the claim that roundabouts are safer that well-regulated conventional intersections... which they are actually, and more efficient in terms of the traffic flow. But the "1 fatality in 5 years" is an useless data point that proves absolutely nothing.
That's hardly a good fact to support the claim that roundabouts are safer that well-regulated conventional intersections... which they are actually, and more efficient in terms of the traffic flow. But the "1 fatality in 5 years" is an useless data point that proves absolutely nothing.
It seems such a meaningless metric; of the three roundabouts around my town (one of which is very large, has no lanes and is surprisingly fast) there has been no fatal accidents as long as I recall (~8 years).
There has, however, been plenty of prangs.
My family use to live near Swindon - that roundabout is terrible for accidents when people get in the wrong lane and cut across. It's just that they tend to be slighter bumps due to the low speed.
There has, however, been plenty of prangs.
My family use to live near Swindon - that roundabout is terrible for accidents when people get in the wrong lane and cut across. It's just that they tend to be slighter bumps due to the low speed.
I used to live close enough to this to drive over it occasionally.
When it's busy traffic is literally coming at you from three directions, the geometry isn't obvious or intuitive, and none of the usual rules apply.
It always had glass from collisions on it.
When it's busy traffic is literally coming at you from three directions, the geometry isn't obvious or intuitive, and none of the usual rules apply.
It always had glass from collisions on it.
The video claims roundabouts reduce accidents but according to the experience here: http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/gettingAround/Roundabout-S... collisions involving injury or fatalities did decrease by 51% at intersections that were replaced by roundabouts; however, overall collisions at those intersections increased by 35%.
Also no one in Waterloo knows how to use the roundabouts yet, so those numbers should improve eventually.
It's getting better, but now the lack of roundabout knowledge can be exploited to travel much faster. So many people wait in the left lane when going straight through, leaving the right lane free to breeze though.
I do think the non standard roundabouts have become more dangerous now that people are more familiar with the "typical" layout found on ira needles. I was travelling north (or east in the parlance of this crazy city) on Bridge St this weekend. I had just crossed the grand and entered the roundabout intending to take the 3rd exit for Lancaster (left turn). This roundabout is odd due to the lane markings. I was well into the roundabout and had the right of way when a bus entered travelling south (west) on Bridge to turn right on Lancaster. We nearly collided (and if we had it would have certainly been the bus' fault) but I was able to brake in time. I am certain the slightly bizarre layout of this roundabout made it look like I was going to continue on Bridge and therefore it was safe for the bus to enter. I live in this area and this has not been an isolated encounter. The roads all have a single lane entering the roundabout but a special lane appears in the roundabout for taking the 3rd exit for Lancaster. This was likely done to increase traffic flow but results in real confusion for people entering from Bridge the other way. It would likely be much easier if there was just a single lane all the way through the roundabout (like Margaret&Union) so it was clear there isn't room for multiple vehicles in the roundabout at the same time.
I do think the non standard roundabouts have become more dangerous now that people are more familiar with the "typical" layout found on ira needles. I was travelling north (or east in the parlance of this crazy city) on Bridge St this weekend. I had just crossed the grand and entered the roundabout intending to take the 3rd exit for Lancaster (left turn). This roundabout is odd due to the lane markings. I was well into the roundabout and had the right of way when a bus entered travelling south (west) on Bridge to turn right on Lancaster. We nearly collided (and if we had it would have certainly been the bus' fault) but I was able to brake in time. I am certain the slightly bizarre layout of this roundabout made it look like I was going to continue on Bridge and therefore it was safe for the bus to enter. I live in this area and this has not been an isolated encounter. The roads all have a single lane entering the roundabout but a special lane appears in the roundabout for taking the 3rd exit for Lancaster. This was likely done to increase traffic flow but results in real confusion for people entering from Bridge the other way. It would likely be much easier if there was just a single lane all the way through the roundabout (like Margaret&Union) so it was clear there isn't room for multiple vehicles in the roundabout at the same time.
Roundabouts have an extra mental tax on drivers, something that's often disregarded in this kind of debates. You should be more alert, more aware of your surroundings, decisions are tougher to make (move? or not yet?). This 7-in-1 roundabout seems to be taking that to the extreme. I can imagine how uncomfortable and challenging it must be to cross it, especially for drivers who are not familiar with it.
Now compare that to regulated intersections, which come at a price of potentially longer delays of course, but in return have much lower mental tax on drivers.
Now compare that to regulated intersections, which come at a price of potentially longer delays of course, but in return have much lower mental tax on drivers.
> Now compare that to regulated intersections, which come at a price of potentially longer delays of course, but in return have much lower mental tax on drivers.
Regular intersections with or without traffic lamps have a measurably higher number of incidents and rate of mortal incidents.
Roundabouts have fewer collision points and force drivers into trajectories that lead to less dramatic impacts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout#Safety has a very illustrative diagram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roundabout_intersection_d... and some cited sources for that claim (claim that fits perfectly with my personal experience living near an urban intersection-turned-roundabout).
Regular intersections with or without traffic lamps have a measurably higher number of incidents and rate of mortal incidents.
Roundabouts have fewer collision points and force drivers into trajectories that lead to less dramatic impacts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout#Safety has a very illustrative diagram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roundabout_intersection_d... and some cited sources for that claim (claim that fits perfectly with my personal experience living near an urban intersection-turned-roundabout).
Mental tax is a feature, not a bug. Intersections are dangerous; the more attention you need to pay, the better.
The biggest problem with light signals is that they don't force you to pay attention. Normal-sized roundabouts usually have a big feature in the middle that you'll hit if you don't pay any attention.
The biggest problem with light signals is that they don't force you to pay attention. Normal-sized roundabouts usually have a big feature in the middle that you'll hit if you don't pay any attention.
Once you are used to them roundabouts are for the most part pleasant to use, and safer than intersections. It's especially nice not to have to turn across incoming traffic.
Yeah I'd put them as about the 2nd least taxing junction. Slip lanes are probably easiest, then regular roundabouts then stop lights then normal cross roads/intersections.
Is there really a mental tax for roundabouts over a regular 4 way junction. (Just regular roundabouts, not the magic variety)?
Traffic can only approach you from one direction and traffic on the roundabout has priority, to me it seems much simpler.
Traffic can only approach you from one direction and traffic on the roundabout has priority, to me it seems much simpler.
> Traffic can only approach you from one direction
But from two axes in that direction; the entry-lane immediately to the right and then those already in circulation on the roundabout. And often two or more lanes on each of those axes.
When those in the nearest entry lane hold-back, something is approaching in circulation. Change focus to determine its lane, destination and rate of approach and if there is time to enter ahead of it.
For many modern roundabouts the view across the circle is deliberately obscured by vegetation for some reason.
But from two axes in that direction; the entry-lane immediately to the right and then those already in circulation on the roundabout. And often two or more lanes on each of those axes.
When those in the nearest entry lane hold-back, something is approaching in circulation. Change focus to determine its lane, destination and rate of approach and if there is time to enter ahead of it.
For many modern roundabouts the view across the circle is deliberately obscured by vegetation for some reason.
Two reasons for vegetation
1. Stop people driving straight across. As ridiculous as that sounds it happens too often.
2. Makes driver focus on the traffic approaching from the right Vs traffic entering opposite. (For nations driving on the left)
1. Stop people driving straight across. As ridiculous as that sounds it happens too often.
2. Makes driver focus on the traffic approaching from the right Vs traffic entering opposite. (For nations driving on the left)
I grew up in Swindon and learned to drive there, still go back fairly often (by car). The Magic Roundabout is fine, even at rush hour. I don't think I've ever needed to do a full revolution of it, often I just need to turn right (which you can do a lot faster than on most junctions). That's the beauty of the system - there's an efficient route to all the exits while also letting traffic cross you.
Compared to single roundabouts of a similar size, it's really not that bad. You just treat every little mini-roundabout separately and give way to the right.
It's much less confusing than large roundabouts where you need to anticipate lane markings (which are impossible to see in traffic) or you end up going round for another try.
Compared to single roundabouts of a similar size, it's really not that bad. You just treat every little mini-roundabout separately and give way to the right.
It's much less confusing than large roundabouts where you need to anticipate lane markings (which are impossible to see in traffic) or you end up going round for another try.
Blocking the view of other roads that also converge on an intersection can have the perhaps surprising effect of reducing accidents, or at least the severity of them. Removing the view of other cars forces drivers to slow down and check when much closer to the intersection. I'm guessing it also reduces lead-foot hubris, but won't stop outright intersection-gamblers. Not all taxes are bad.
(I can't find a reference after an admittedly lame search attempt, sorry!)
(I can't find a reference after an admittedly lame search attempt, sorry!)
> Roundabouts have an extra mental tax on drivers
So, just like the rest of driving?
Freeway on-ramps, stop lights, pedestrian crossings, bike lanes, one way street... Lots of things are harder mentally until you learn to get used to them.
Roundabouts force you to slow down, however, which is why I think they get such a big backlash at first. But in reality, when built in the right areas, they improve overall traffic flow.
So, just like the rest of driving?
Freeway on-ramps, stop lights, pedestrian crossings, bike lanes, one way street... Lots of things are harder mentally until you learn to get used to them.
Roundabouts force you to slow down, however, which is why I think they get such a big backlash at first. But in reality, when built in the right areas, they improve overall traffic flow.
"I can imagine how uncomfortable and challenging it must be to cross it, especially for drivers who are not familiar with it." (specially coming from continental Europe where we have right-side traffic)
Swindon is rural England? It's the 10th biggest town in the UK, with a population that exceeds some cities. Pretty much the only reason it's not a city is the archaic rule that cities have to have a cathedral.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/8705932/Britai...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/8705932/Britai...
This is a common misconception that I stumbled upon a few months ago.
Sources:
- The cathedral requirement was only to the 19th Century.
- Size does not matter. For example St Davids is a city with only 1,600 inhabitants
- A city in the UK is a place that has been granted city status by the monarch.
- You can loose city status for similar arbitrary reasons
- London is not even a fucking city in this system!
Sources:
- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13841482
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_status_in_the_United_Kingdom> London is not even a city in this system!
Well, there is the City of London aka the Square Mile, as well as the City of Westminster.
Well, there is the City of London aka the Square Mile, as well as the City of Westminster.
Yes with populations of 9,400 and 247,600 respectively. They seem to invalidate the rest of the city from city status.
Swindon is a big town, but is arguably in a rural location.
However, cities do /not/ need a Cathedral - just a Royal Charter. Look at e.g. Cambridge.
However, cities do /not/ need a Cathedral - just a Royal Charter. Look at e.g. Cambridge.
I drove through this once, it was an absolute terror. I ended up cutting across it without even realizing.
My keychain fob is a tourist special - the Magic Roundabout, Swindon.
A few things about the Magic Roundabout:
If you are a rail user then you will inevitably have rail replacement bus services that will inevitably give you a free tour of the Magic Roundabout. You can get on the top deck at the front and witness the awesomeness of the roundabout precariously but with a good view.
By bicycle the Magic Roundabout is a bit daunting but okay due to the low traffic speed and the expectation of other road users for you to be having no idea what you are doing.
What is not quite ever easy to come to terms with is that you are effectively driving on the right, not the left, as far as on-coming traffic is concerned. This is not normal for UK traffic situations, you always drive on the left in the UK and expect on-coming traffic to be to the right, not left.
Swindon is great, for a while I used to tell people I went there for my shopping because it was the largest town without a bookshop.
A few things about the Magic Roundabout:
If you are a rail user then you will inevitably have rail replacement bus services that will inevitably give you a free tour of the Magic Roundabout. You can get on the top deck at the front and witness the awesomeness of the roundabout precariously but with a good view.
By bicycle the Magic Roundabout is a bit daunting but okay due to the low traffic speed and the expectation of other road users for you to be having no idea what you are doing.
What is not quite ever easy to come to terms with is that you are effectively driving on the right, not the left, as far as on-coming traffic is concerned. This is not normal for UK traffic situations, you always drive on the left in the UK and expect on-coming traffic to be to the right, not left.
Swindon is great, for a while I used to tell people I went there for my shopping because it was the largest town without a bookshop.
There's been a Waterstones in the Brunel Centre for at least a couple of decades. Proper bookshop though, sadly not.
The history is kinda interesting
>Mini-roundabouts were developed by the Road Research Laboratory in the early 1970s as an experiment into whether the success of the priority-to-the-right rule at larger roundabout junctions could be applied to locations where there wasn't enough space to install a full-size roundabout. By summer 1971, 33 were in use across Britain.
>[Frank] Blackmore pursued this discovery, noting that the design was also superior to signalised junctions, following a Peterborough experiment where an extra 1,000 vehicles could be handled every hour by a new small roundabout at a previously signalised T-junction. He started to wonder if several small roundabouts could be linked to improve more complex junctions.
>...Blackmore didn't give up, [...] and in 1972 gave Britain a new design of Ring Junction. It was supposed to be in Birmingham, but the Council there was unable to fund the scheme, and so the RRL was invited to try its new design at a congested roundabout near Swindon town centre. For the first time, traffic could flow both ways right around the central island, meaning that if one side was congested, the other side could take up the slack. After a few days of Police control, in which time RRL researchers logged events from a crane-mounted camera, the experiment was branded a success.
>[It] is one of the few places where the jams have never really returned despite forty years of traffic growth.
>...They also have an excellent safety record, probably because all traffic is moving too slowly to do any real damage in the event of a collision.
from http://www.cbrd.co.uk/articles/the-magic-roundabout/
see also an obituary tribute http://www.mini-roundabout.com/tribute.htm
Quite a colourful history for a roundabout guy - Born and brought up an expat in Algeria, studied engineering in Switzerland, RAF pilot in WW2 getting an Air Force Cross, became an Air Attaché in Beirut where duties included bugging the Russians next door with holes drilled through the wall. Then roundabouts.
>Mini-roundabouts were developed by the Road Research Laboratory in the early 1970s as an experiment into whether the success of the priority-to-the-right rule at larger roundabout junctions could be applied to locations where there wasn't enough space to install a full-size roundabout. By summer 1971, 33 were in use across Britain.
>[Frank] Blackmore pursued this discovery, noting that the design was also superior to signalised junctions, following a Peterborough experiment where an extra 1,000 vehicles could be handled every hour by a new small roundabout at a previously signalised T-junction. He started to wonder if several small roundabouts could be linked to improve more complex junctions.
>...Blackmore didn't give up, [...] and in 1972 gave Britain a new design of Ring Junction. It was supposed to be in Birmingham, but the Council there was unable to fund the scheme, and so the RRL was invited to try its new design at a congested roundabout near Swindon town centre. For the first time, traffic could flow both ways right around the central island, meaning that if one side was congested, the other side could take up the slack. After a few days of Police control, in which time RRL researchers logged events from a crane-mounted camera, the experiment was branded a success.
>[It] is one of the few places where the jams have never really returned despite forty years of traffic growth.
>...They also have an excellent safety record, probably because all traffic is moving too slowly to do any real damage in the event of a collision.
from http://www.cbrd.co.uk/articles/the-magic-roundabout/
see also an obituary tribute http://www.mini-roundabout.com/tribute.htm
Quite a colourful history for a roundabout guy - Born and brought up an expat in Algeria, studied engineering in Switzerland, RAF pilot in WW2 getting an Air Force Cross, became an Air Attaché in Beirut where duties included bugging the Russians next door with holes drilled through the wall. Then roundabouts.
I used to live and work in Swindon years ago, the roundabout is actually really easy to use once you get the hang of it. Best thing is there's always a route to keep moving, so it does keep traffic flowing.
> It's even safer than a normal roundabout too, for one simple reason: traffic moves through it too slowly to actually cause an accident.
That seems like more of a negative than a positive... You can improve the safety of any intersection by designing it in a way that forces people to go slow, but we don't because we like to get places quickly.
That seems like more of a negative than a positive... You can improve the safety of any intersection by designing it in a way that forces people to go slow, but we don't because we like to get places quickly.