A music-lover's guide to tinnitus(residentadvisor.net)
residentadvisor.net
A music-lover's guide to tinnitus
https://www.residentadvisor.net/features/2985
21 comments
Louder music sounds better if you have shitty speakers. When I bought my set of studio monitors, I realized that I (unconsciously) listened at a much lower volume, simply because the clarity was already close to perfect at that volume.
FWIW, I've anecdotally had pretty much the opposite experience. I've played and written music my entire life, but I'm not very well-versed in sound systems. My roommate has invested several years and several thousand dollars in the sound system that we currently have in our living room.
After he and the sound system moved in, I listen to music (of all kinds) quite a bit louder in our living room: My earlier crappy sound system just didn't sound good at high volumes while this system sounds beautiful as high as we care to crank it before we decide that we're being too unreasonably inconsiderate to our neighbors.
After he and the sound system moved in, I listen to music (of all kinds) quite a bit louder in our living room: My earlier crappy sound system just didn't sound good at high volumes while this system sounds beautiful as high as we care to crank it before we decide that we're being too unreasonably inconsiderate to our neighbors.
Your shitty speakers simply were not shitty enough :)
Haha I dunno, it was literally just my TV. I didn't know anything at all about sound systems.
I agree. I love dancing, especially to live music. And I'm a musician myself.
But I avoid restaurants and places with live music unless the sole purpose is dancing. They advertise live music as a feature but sadly I treat it as a negative.
Maybe it's just me, but I have never been at a restaurant/bar playing live music where I've thought "this is playing at exactly the right level of volume."
It's always set to 11. One louder than necessary.
But I avoid restaurants and places with live music unless the sole purpose is dancing. They advertise live music as a feature but sadly I treat it as a negative.
Maybe it's just me, but I have never been at a restaurant/bar playing live music where I've thought "this is playing at exactly the right level of volume."
It's always set to 11. One louder than necessary.
maybe all the people who go to live concerts are a bit deaf already.
[deleted]
At my wedding, we picked a great band and kept the music at a comfortable level, and most of the guests danced the whole time and even the non-dancing guests clustered around the dance floor. I can't prove causation, but I bet the tolerable volume had a lot to do with it.
I'm a musician, and play in wedding bands. I think I've seen enough weddings to suspect that you're probably right about causation.
Something people don't realize about wedding music is that it's not just for dancing. If done well, it can also serve other purposes as well. There will always be a mixed crowd at a wedding, including people who are either unable to fully participate in the socializing for the duration of the party -- e.g., the elderly and children -- or who are shy, or outsiders, whatever. They band can provide them with a focal point and source of entertainment.
At some weddings, the dance floor was taken over by children just tearing around, and at first it would annoy me, but I eventually realized that I was taking pressure off the parents so they could enjoy socializing with one another instead of trying to restrain their kids.
So maybe the real solution is for people to start trying to figure out why the norm for concerts is to have the volume painfully loud. It's possible that guests just might enjoy them more with quieter music.
Self indulgence and ignorance among the performers, including the sound crew if there is one. Everybody believes that their instrument, or their musical style, is the one that needs to be loud. And I freely admit that playing loud is fun.
I've also noticed a sort of ratchet effect. The musicians gradually get tired, and turn up the volume so they don't have to play as hard. Then they get excited and start playing harder. Then they get tired, and turn up the volume. I think that's one explanation for the ever-escalating volume levels.
I'm a musician, and play in wedding bands. I think I've seen enough weddings to suspect that you're probably right about causation.
Something people don't realize about wedding music is that it's not just for dancing. If done well, it can also serve other purposes as well. There will always be a mixed crowd at a wedding, including people who are either unable to fully participate in the socializing for the duration of the party -- e.g., the elderly and children -- or who are shy, or outsiders, whatever. They band can provide them with a focal point and source of entertainment.
At some weddings, the dance floor was taken over by children just tearing around, and at first it would annoy me, but I eventually realized that I was taking pressure off the parents so they could enjoy socializing with one another instead of trying to restrain their kids.
So maybe the real solution is for people to start trying to figure out why the norm for concerts is to have the volume painfully loud. It's possible that guests just might enjoy them more with quieter music.
Self indulgence and ignorance among the performers, including the sound crew if there is one. Everybody believes that their instrument, or their musical style, is the one that needs to be loud. And I freely admit that playing loud is fun.
I've also noticed a sort of ratchet effect. The musicians gradually get tired, and turn up the volume so they don't have to play as hard. Then they get excited and start playing harder. Then they get tired, and turn up the volume. I think that's one explanation for the ever-escalating volume levels.
> So maybe the real solution is for people to start trying to figure out why the norm for concerts is to have the volume painfully loud.
> The musicians gradually get tired, and turn up the volume so they don't have to play as hard. Then they get excited and start playing harder. Then they get tired, and turn up the volume.
I think you answered it yourself. Also, from someone who played in a local band for a while (And a not-quite-so-local band thereafter), people who actually know how to use a PA are few and far between. I think most of the time people are lazy and just set the master volume to something that cuts over the chit-chat, then they just don't bother to go back and readjust that when things are quieter/louder.
Seriously folks. If you're performing live, or you bring people in live, make sure at least one of you hires a dedicated, trained PA technician. It's the difference between a mediocre band and a great band (One where you can hear all of the performers), and also helps a lot with ear safety. The performers and the attendees will thank you for it.
> The musicians gradually get tired, and turn up the volume so they don't have to play as hard. Then they get excited and start playing harder. Then they get tired, and turn up the volume.
I think you answered it yourself. Also, from someone who played in a local band for a while (And a not-quite-so-local band thereafter), people who actually know how to use a PA are few and far between. I think most of the time people are lazy and just set the master volume to something that cuts over the chit-chat, then they just don't bother to go back and readjust that when things are quieter/louder.
Seriously folks. If you're performing live, or you bring people in live, make sure at least one of you hires a dedicated, trained PA technician. It's the difference between a mediocre band and a great band (One where you can hear all of the performers), and also helps a lot with ear safety. The performers and the attendees will thank you for it.
Indeed, since I play mostly jazz these days, PA is typically optional, and I'd rather play without PA altogether than play with bad PA, no matter the size of the venue. I figure a string quartet can control their mix just fine, and a jazz quartet should be able to as well. But if there needs to be a PA, then it needs to be managed correctly.
At one venue, we just pretended that the house PA was broken.
At one venue, we just pretended that the house PA was broken.
I think some sound technicians are a bit deaf too.
There are physical and psychological euphoric and stress-reducing effects that come from cranking up the volume. But I agree with the article that they're best employed more selectively, and not pegging the whole session (and midrange!) at that volume.
I think there's a huge range of what's enjoyable and, like many things in life, it's all about set and setting. A wedding band playing at a skilfully appropriate volume can be the right answer - so can the intense effect of body-shaking sub bass at something like a Iration Steppas or Channel One show [1]. But, yeah, take care of your hearing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvKTMv4E09Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvKTMv4E09Y
True, but "body-shaking sub bass" arguably doesn't cause hearing damage. Because you can't hear it. I still love loud music. But I don't love those squealing harmonics so much as I used to.
Our perception of loudness is highly subjective and we quickly acclimatise to loud music. Music sounds superficially better at louder volumes, hence the notorious loudness war in music production [1]. This is one of the big risks of using headphones - it's easy for the volume to creep up to dangerous levels if you're not worried about disturbing the neighbours.
Sound engineers often suffer from a significant degree of noise-induced hearing loss. Hearing loss is highly dose-dependent, so working with live sound equipment on a daily basis is far more damaging than going to the occasional loud concert. As a result, they tend to set the house volume too loud. Noise-induced hearing loss affects the high frequencies first, so live sound is often extremely shrill and trebly to compensate. Those engineers who don't have noise-induced hearing loss have made a habit of wearing ear protection, which has basically the same effect.
The unfortunate solution is to wear ear protection to any amplified live music event. I recommend the Etymotic ER-20xs [2]. You'll hear a better, more balanced sound at a much safer volume level.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
[2]https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/hearing-protection/er20xs....
Sound engineers often suffer from a significant degree of noise-induced hearing loss. Hearing loss is highly dose-dependent, so working with live sound equipment on a daily basis is far more damaging than going to the occasional loud concert. As a result, they tend to set the house volume too loud. Noise-induced hearing loss affects the high frequencies first, so live sound is often extremely shrill and trebly to compensate. Those engineers who don't have noise-induced hearing loss have made a habit of wearing ear protection, which has basically the same effect.
The unfortunate solution is to wear ear protection to any amplified live music event. I recommend the Etymotic ER-20xs [2]. You'll hear a better, more balanced sound at a much safer volume level.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
[2]https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/hearing-protection/er20xs....
Are the ER-20xs a significant step up from the ER-20s?
I used to wear ER-20s and they were fine. Alpine MusicSafe Pro were good too. Both comfortable, and did they job.
Alpine PartyPlugs didn't sounds as good to me, but they were more discrete so great for house parties and stuff.
I switched to Ear Peace HD's about a year ago.
Ear Peace are mentioned below the article. I don't know if it was sponsored. I'm certainly not sponsored by them.
I love EDM, DnB especially, but I'm a mosher at heart. The EPHD's don't hurt as much if an errant crowd-surfer happens to smack into my ear.
The EPHD's are even less noticeable than the Alpine PartyPlugs too.
I started wearing earplugs when I started working with VoIP systems a decade and a half ago. I'd be going to a few metal gigs a month and it was always painfully loud. I'd have ringing in the ears after every gig, and I'd sleep badly and feel almost hungover the next morning.
I have similarly sensitive hearing to the lady in the article, even restaurants and cinemas will cause me to pop my earplugs in. I keep a set attached to my keys. (The EPHD's come with a black metal tube keyring case.)
I couldn't go back to not wearing earplugs. If anything, they made gigs sound better to me.
I used to wear ER-20s and they were fine. Alpine MusicSafe Pro were good too. Both comfortable, and did they job.
Alpine PartyPlugs didn't sounds as good to me, but they were more discrete so great for house parties and stuff.
I switched to Ear Peace HD's about a year ago.
Ear Peace are mentioned below the article. I don't know if it was sponsored. I'm certainly not sponsored by them.
I love EDM, DnB especially, but I'm a mosher at heart. The EPHD's don't hurt as much if an errant crowd-surfer happens to smack into my ear.
The EPHD's are even less noticeable than the Alpine PartyPlugs too.
I started wearing earplugs when I started working with VoIP systems a decade and a half ago. I'd be going to a few metal gigs a month and it was always painfully loud. I'd have ringing in the ears after every gig, and I'd sleep badly and feel almost hungover the next morning.
I have similarly sensitive hearing to the lady in the article, even restaurants and cinemas will cause me to pop my earplugs in. I keep a set attached to my keys. (The EPHD's come with a black metal tube keyring case.)
I couldn't go back to not wearing earplugs. If anything, they made gigs sound better to me.
I haven't used the Ear Peace HDs. The ER-20xs is significantly smaller than the old ER-20, just barely protruding beyond the ear canal. The Ear Peace plugs may be a better option if you're prone to getting whacked in the head. The ER-20xs has an optional neck cord, which I find to be a handy feature. They also work with a range of foam and silicone tips, so are more likely to fit a broad range of ears.
>If anything, they made gigs sound better to me.
As I mentioned in my comment, the sound engineer is almost certainly either wearing ear plugs or half deaf. Either one causes a substantial roll-off of high frequencies, so the engineer is likely to subconsciously compensate by boosting the treble in the mix. If you've got plugs in, you're hearing something much closer to his intended mix. It's a totally perverse situation, but gigs almost always sound better with ear protection.
>If anything, they made gigs sound better to me.
As I mentioned in my comment, the sound engineer is almost certainly either wearing ear plugs or half deaf. Either one causes a substantial roll-off of high frequencies, so the engineer is likely to subconsciously compensate by boosting the treble in the mix. If you've got plugs in, you're hearing something much closer to his intended mix. It's a totally perverse situation, but gigs almost always sound better with ear protection.
Cool, thanks! I'll grab a set of ER-20xs to try too.
This sounds like the most probable explanation for some experiences I had which I couldn't explain so far.
I've visited festivals that obviously hired professional people for their sound and had rather well-known bands on their line up (Iron Maiden and Hammerfall, for example) and that had terrible sound.
The volume would be cranked up way to much, proving to be even beyond the limits of the equipment, which led to the sound mostly being very obviously oversaturated. All the while I couldn't imagine being near the place without ear protection, which made the whole thing even more pointless.
Honestly, setups like that only ruin the experience of the paying customer. I can't fathom the idea that no-one who is organizing such events isn't having a sincere word with their sound crew after the first song.
I've visited festivals that obviously hired professional people for their sound and had rather well-known bands on their line up (Iron Maiden and Hammerfall, for example) and that had terrible sound.
The volume would be cranked up way to much, proving to be even beyond the limits of the equipment, which led to the sound mostly being very obviously oversaturated. All the while I couldn't imagine being near the place without ear protection, which made the whole thing even more pointless.
Honestly, setups like that only ruin the experience of the paying customer. I can't fathom the idea that no-one who is organizing such events isn't having a sincere word with their sound crew after the first song.
Is there any reason not to use a decibel meter to set up volumes. And perhaps to use computer assistance to balance instrument volumes and profile the sound. Seems like a couple of mics around a room and you could adjust to get the best sound for the whole room rather than [just] the sound desk? I'd guess they're doing that already at big concerts.
It seems very like colour profiling to me. Graphic designers seem to match to objective standards though, whilst sound techs seem instead to use their own perception at the time?
It seems very like colour profiling to me. Graphic designers seem to match to objective standards though, whilst sound techs seem instead to use their own perception at the time?
Here in the UK, it's common for venues to have automatic sound limiting devices - exceed a certain threshold and power to the PA system is disconnected [1]. These systems are a source of constant frustration for engineers, performers and clients.
The problem is that good live sound is highly dynamic. If you ran the PA at exactly 85dBa all night, it would sound very flat and unengaging. You want to push the volume during lively upbeat songs and bring it back down for an intimate ballad, you want a bit of a lift during the chorus, you want natural crescendos and diminuendos. Really good engineers can maintain this sense of dynamism while keeping the overall levels under control by using time-averaged metering, but systems capable of that are quite costly.
Achieving a consistent volume level throughout the venue is much easier said than done. Normal loudspeakers follow the inverse square law, so the sound will be much louder close to the PA system. You can't just put a bunch of speakers all over the room, because you'll get weird phase effects - sound moves at about one foot per millisecond, so additional speakers tend to cause very unpleasant delay and comb filtering effects [2]. This can be mitigated by the use of electronic delay compensation for the additional relay speakers, but not eliminated entirely.
The inverse square law can be evaded by using a line array loudspeaker system [3]. Theses systems use multiple loudspeakers in a phased array, which produces a cylindrical rather than spherical wavefront. Line arrays give a much more even distribution of sound and also reduce the amount of energy that is reflected from the ceiling and floor, providing a much clearer sound with more accurate transient response. Historically, line arrays have been expensive and difficult to configure, so they have been confined to large venues and high-end touring systems. Compact integrated line array systems are now available from many manufacturers, so hopefully we should see an improvement in the general standard of live sound over the coming years.
[1] https://noiselimiters.co.uk/scx-noise-limiter-and-contactor-...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comb_filter
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_array
The problem is that good live sound is highly dynamic. If you ran the PA at exactly 85dBa all night, it would sound very flat and unengaging. You want to push the volume during lively upbeat songs and bring it back down for an intimate ballad, you want a bit of a lift during the chorus, you want natural crescendos and diminuendos. Really good engineers can maintain this sense of dynamism while keeping the overall levels under control by using time-averaged metering, but systems capable of that are quite costly.
Achieving a consistent volume level throughout the venue is much easier said than done. Normal loudspeakers follow the inverse square law, so the sound will be much louder close to the PA system. You can't just put a bunch of speakers all over the room, because you'll get weird phase effects - sound moves at about one foot per millisecond, so additional speakers tend to cause very unpleasant delay and comb filtering effects [2]. This can be mitigated by the use of electronic delay compensation for the additional relay speakers, but not eliminated entirely.
The inverse square law can be evaded by using a line array loudspeaker system [3]. Theses systems use multiple loudspeakers in a phased array, which produces a cylindrical rather than spherical wavefront. Line arrays give a much more even distribution of sound and also reduce the amount of energy that is reflected from the ceiling and floor, providing a much clearer sound with more accurate transient response. Historically, line arrays have been expensive and difficult to configure, so they have been confined to large venues and high-end touring systems. Compact integrated line array systems are now available from many manufacturers, so hopefully we should see an improvement in the general standard of live sound over the coming years.
[1] https://noiselimiters.co.uk/scx-noise-limiter-and-contactor-...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comb_filter
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_array
> If you ran the PA at exactly 85dBa all night, it would sound very flat and unengaging. //
I was thinking more having an RMS max target dBA/dB(SPL) and a cut-off above that to limit instantaneous volume rather than requiring a particular level for the night.
I'm in the UK; I know a little about phase effects having set up a few room level PAs (5 instruments, 3 mics, 6 speakers, single board; that sort of size). However, I'm not familiar with large set-ups as I've only attended smaller concerts of the order of 100s-1000s of people.
I was thinking more having an RMS max target dBA/dB(SPL) and a cut-off above that to limit instantaneous volume rather than requiring a particular level for the night.
I'm in the UK; I know a little about phase effects having set up a few room level PAs (5 instruments, 3 mics, 6 speakers, single board; that sort of size). However, I'm not familiar with large set-ups as I've only attended smaller concerts of the order of 100s-1000s of people.
I'm pretty sure they do this. I go to gigs often and most sound tech's now walk around with iPad's/iPhone's during the soundcheck using them to measure levels. I think the problem is more than most venues will have a lot of speakers setup up around the stage (sides, above sometimes too) and that's it. So if it's a big venue the volume is necessary to make sure the people at the back are experiencing it properly too. Sound desks are often centre back of the room so that's where things tend to sound best. If your nearer the speakers you'll often miss things (for example you'll see someone playing a guitar solo and won't be able to hear it, if you go back towards the sound desk it'll be much more balanced).
Thank you for this very detailed write-up and also the specific product recommendation.
This article is from Resident Advisor, a website focused on (electronic) dance music culture. Most of the audience go to clubs and festivals with massive speaker systems much louder than your average wedding. It's a pretty central part of the culture - this article exists because of the number of people who enjoy standing in front of loud speakers for extended periods of time.
Electronic music itself is the problem too. If you go and see a live band there's some dynamic range but when you see a DJ the music is at it's peak level for 95% of the time.
There was a music festival about 2 miles from my home a few years ago. On the night the Foo Fighters played we could hear some noise occasionally but never for more than a few seconds. It went up and down. The second night Avicii played. I could hear it clear all night. It wasn't louder (as it was in a residential area so volume was limited) but it was at the peak level for most of the night.
There was a music festival about 2 miles from my home a few years ago. On the night the Foo Fighters played we could hear some noise occasionally but never for more than a few seconds. It went up and down. The second night Avicii played. I could hear it clear all night. It wasn't louder (as it was in a residential area so volume was limited) but it was at the peak level for most of the night.
Please don't tar all electronic musicians with that brush :)
There is a big and varied universe of electronic, most of which is a lot more dynamic than radio-pop artists like Avicii.
There is a big and varied universe of electronic, most of which is a lot more dynamic than radio-pop artists like Avicii.
I'm a huge electronic music fan (and of much less commercial stuff than my example) so it's not a slight on it at all. The problem isn't the style of music. The problem is that DJ's play recorded music and all recorded music (regardless of genre) is heavily compressed so has much less dynamic range. A live band will be much less compressed so there will be much greater and more frequent variety in volume. If a metal band were to get up and play their CD instead of playing live the same issue would occur.
A funny thing regarding compression: I realized I'm even accustomed to it (to some degree).
If you listen to classical music (e.g. recordings of "Das deutsche Grammophon"), you'll realize that often, the opposite effect is true: The music has such a high dynamic range that you inevitably have to raise the volume in order to be able to discern the details in a pianissimo-part, which makes the fortissimo-parts deafening. So, there are not only upsides to low compression ;-)
If you listen to classical music (e.g. recordings of "Das deutsche Grammophon"), you'll realize that often, the opposite effect is true: The music has such a high dynamic range that you inevitably have to raise the volume in order to be able to discern the details in a pianissimo-part, which makes the fortissimo-parts deafening. So, there are not only upsides to low compression ;-)
Maybe that's how the pianissimo sections are supposed to work. They're quiet so that you have to pay close attention and strain slightly to hear them so that when the forte part returns you are giving it your full attention :)
I feel it has at least something to do with the style of music and culture, it can't entirely be due to compression. There is a unique obsession with overwhelming, earth-shaking bass in electronic music. Sure, metal bands can be loud, but they're usually working in somewhat higher frequencies, and I do think the music itself generally has more range. The constant thumping sub-bass of house music is going to travel a lot further and be more noticeable.
A music lover here. I do not like loud music one bit.
as a metalhead and frequent concert-goer, this is something I am INCREDIBLY careful about. I'm one of those people that already has a hard time hearing in environments with background noise for some reason.
1. earplugs at shows or anywhere with sustained loud sound are critical. Disposable foam earplugs are a last resort. If you are a frequent concert-goer, do yourself a favor and AT LEAST get a pair of Eymotic ETY-Plugs or something similar ($13, https://www.amazon.com/ETY-Plugs-Fidelity-Earplugs-Standard-...). They will fit way better, isolate more sound, and sound a TON better; you will still be able to enjoy the show, I promise.
2. If you go to shows a lot, get custom plugs made; just do it. Price will be $80-$200, including getting professional molds made by an audiologist, but it is worth it. I can not even feel mine when they are in my ears, the fit is that good (mine are from 64 Audio, they have a 20% off sale a few times a year).
3. If you spend a lot of time with headphones, be really careful about keeping the volume low. If something sounds too faint, just leave it for a few minutes; a lot of they time your ears adjust and that lower volume you thought was too faint is actually just fine or maybe even still too loud.
4. I acknowledge how ridiculous of a suggestion this is price wise, but if you spend hours a day with headphones on, consider custom molded IEMs. Yes, they are expensive as shit (anywhere from ~$250 to infinity dollars), but they will seal in your ears perfectly. This gives you much better isolation from ambient sound in your environment, so you can listen to music at MUCH lower volumes comfortably. On average, sound quality is MUCH better than the headphones/earbuds you were using before too.
Do not fuck about with your hearing.
1. earplugs at shows or anywhere with sustained loud sound are critical. Disposable foam earplugs are a last resort. If you are a frequent concert-goer, do yourself a favor and AT LEAST get a pair of Eymotic ETY-Plugs or something similar ($13, https://www.amazon.com/ETY-Plugs-Fidelity-Earplugs-Standard-...). They will fit way better, isolate more sound, and sound a TON better; you will still be able to enjoy the show, I promise.
2. If you go to shows a lot, get custom plugs made; just do it. Price will be $80-$200, including getting professional molds made by an audiologist, but it is worth it. I can not even feel mine when they are in my ears, the fit is that good (mine are from 64 Audio, they have a 20% off sale a few times a year).
3. If you spend a lot of time with headphones, be really careful about keeping the volume low. If something sounds too faint, just leave it for a few minutes; a lot of they time your ears adjust and that lower volume you thought was too faint is actually just fine or maybe even still too loud.
4. I acknowledge how ridiculous of a suggestion this is price wise, but if you spend hours a day with headphones on, consider custom molded IEMs. Yes, they are expensive as shit (anywhere from ~$250 to infinity dollars), but they will seal in your ears perfectly. This gives you much better isolation from ambient sound in your environment, so you can listen to music at MUCH lower volumes comfortably. On average, sound quality is MUCH better than the headphones/earbuds you were using before too.
Do not fuck about with your hearing.
I've tried a few different attenuator earplugs, and the most compelling I've found are the Earasers. ($40 https://www.amazon.com/Earasers-HEM001-Musicians-Plugs-Mediu... ). They're very comfortable and low-profile. If you're the kind of person who prefers not to advertise that they're using earplugs (silly I know, but a consideration for a lot of people), these are great, because they're basically invisible when in use.
And +1 on the custom earmold. I use mine routinely. I do use the earasers when attending shows with a moshpit, as it's possible to have the filters get dislodged and lost in the fray.
And +1 on the custom earmold. I use mine routinely. I do use the earasers when attending shows with a moshpit, as it's possible to have the filters get dislodged and lost in the fray.
How do they attenuate lower bass frequencies? Granted, its pretty tough/impossible for an earplug to do at concert volumes, but my only complaint about most plugs is the lows aren't attenuated as much as everything else.
I bit the bullet and bought a pair. I have the Etymotics and they've been quite good but not as stable to wear as I'd like. Hope these are better
> 3. If you spend a lot of time with headphones, be really careful about keeping the volume low. If something sounds too faint, just leave it for a few minutes; a lot of they time your ears adjust and that lower volume you thought was too faint is actually just fine or maybe even still too loud.
One trick I play on myself when I turn down the volume is to first turn it down lower than I want it, then turn it back up to the desired level. That way it feels like I'm coming off a volume increase instead of an overall decrease, and I seem to adjust faster.
One trick I play on myself when I turn down the volume is to first turn it down lower than I want it, then turn it back up to the desired level. That way it feels like I'm coming off a volume increase instead of an overall decrease, and I seem to adjust faster.
I wish I had your advice when I was trying to deal with the pain of an open-office work environment. Listening to music or white noise for 8+ hours per day to drown out extremely noisy coworkers has left me with very nasty tinnitus. I am hearing it as I type this, more aware of it than I usually am, and I wish I was back to a state where I could just hear the world without the constant accompaniment of a high-pitched 'eeeeeeeeeeee'.
I have read in some places that everyone hears that "eeee" to some degree or another. I distinctly remember being able to perceive that sound even when I was a child, and I have read anecdotal reports from many others. (I did some research on this when I was going through some kind of pseudo-hypochondriac attack.) I don't know how true this is, but it might offer you some comfort.
Like pain becoming more acute when you think about it, this sound always seems louder to me when I'm stressing about the health of my hearing. I notice retrospectively that I never notice it when engaged in any other activity, even if it's very quiet about.
Like pain becoming more acute when you think about it, this sound always seems louder to me when I'm stressing about the health of my hearing. I notice retrospectively that I never notice it when engaged in any other activity, even if it's very quiet about.
My symptoms are a little different, I feel: it is pretty quiet now and I am about as relaxed as I get but it is pulsing away as I type this. It is good to hear (ha) that it might be more common than I realize - everyone else I have talked to about ringing mentions a different experience than mine so it is good to hear that my case is not too out of the ordinary.
> I'm one of those people that already has a hard time hearing in environments with background noise for some reason.
I bet you're also one of those people who has high attention to detail in life, is aware of most things going on around you, etc. (aka highly sensitive person).
I find that moving to another country and NOT learning the language helps :). It makes the background noise non-sensical, and thus relieves a ton of mental effort.
I bet you're also one of those people who has high attention to detail in life, is aware of most things going on around you, etc. (aka highly sensitive person).
I find that moving to another country and NOT learning the language helps :). It makes the background noise non-sensical, and thus relieves a ton of mental effort.
I agree, emphatically. This experience of relief is so great, I think this may be why I'm postponing learning Spanish. I absolutely love the ease with which I can tune out conversations in languages I don't know.
Personally I like cheap wax ear plugs - you squish them to the shape you like, and so adjust how much sound they block - but found a key ring holder for them really useful. eg http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keyring-Tablets-Medicine-Container... plugs http://www.boots.com/boots-muffle-wax-earplugs-5-pairs-10114...
You never quite know when your friends will want to meet/go somewhere noisy.
You never quite know when your friends will want to meet/go somewhere noisy.
I'd like to echo point 3 - I eventually got to the point where I could listen to music on the lowest volume, because I had gotten used to the volume.
So, I often listen to podcasts in bed with earbuds. It's night, and it's quiet, and I've found that I actually _bottom out_-- I'm at the lowest volume setting, with the next lowest being "mute", and I wish I could lower it a few more times. I need finer control over volume. (I'm on android, if anyone has any solutions...)
I had exactly this problem when listening to music on my phone using cheap, low-impedance earbuds! I searched for audio player apps that offer some equalizer controls. One option is to lower all the sliders equally across the different frequencies, but it's easier to get an app that also has a single "preamp" slider which affects the signal across all frequencies. I settled on Poweramp [0], which has a two week free trial. I bought the full version (4 USD) after confirming that it did what I wanted.
I agree with the other answers about getting an in-line volume control -- if you're using wired headphones. They're also great on airplanes: turn the provided entertainment up to maximum volume with the buttons on the armrest or wherever; turn the volume on the in-line attenuator down to nearly zero; listen in comfort. I noticed that whenever an announcement is made in the cabin, it seems to disregard your volume setting on the entertainment and just blasts your ears at 100%. If you've already set your in-line attenuator to deal with movies at 100%, then the announcement doesn't hurt your eardrums. I bought this one because it doesn't add a lot of extra length to the cable [1].
[0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.maxmpz.aud...
[1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008DJTB32
I agree with the other answers about getting an in-line volume control -- if you're using wired headphones. They're also great on airplanes: turn the provided entertainment up to maximum volume with the buttons on the armrest or wherever; turn the volume on the in-line attenuator down to nearly zero; listen in comfort. I noticed that whenever an announcement is made in the cabin, it seems to disregard your volume setting on the entertainment and just blasts your ears at 100%. If you've already set your in-line attenuator to deal with movies at 100%, then the announcement doesn't hurt your eardrums. I bought this one because it doesn't add a lot of extra length to the cable [1].
[0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.maxmpz.aud...
[1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008DJTB32
What I always want for is a compressor control. The volume range in movies is never right and I hate fiddling with the volume all the time.
I'd expect that sort of thing would be a default in audio players and TVs but at my price level I never see it anywhere.
I just want to hear the whispers without being discombobulated by the louder parts.
I'd expect that sort of thing would be a default in audio players and TVs but at my price level I never see it anywhere.
I just want to hear the whispers without being discombobulated by the louder parts.
VLC has a compressor option. Turn that option on, crank the VLC volume to the maximum, and then lower the system volume to taste.
IMO the effect isn't quite strong enough to be 100% effective, but it's better than nothing.
IMO the effect isn't quite strong enough to be 100% effective, but it's better than nothing.
You are looking for dynamic range compression, or something that manipulates gain between tracks. Its a pretty standard feature on lots of equipment, like you mentioned. A lot of the time it might just be denoted by a setting called "equalize loudness" or something.
That would be great, wonder if there's a software that does that when playing movies on the computer...
Search your favourite online store or ebay for "3.5mm stereo inline volume control" -- a few inches of cable with a headphone plug and socket on either end and a passive volume control between them. Simple but effective.
This is a great idea. I wish there were such a device for Bluetooth! I have earbuds that seal quite well and, at least on my Android device, there's a volume setting around 20% that's slightly too loud, and one around 10% that's slightly too soft. The rocker buttons do not seem to allow me to reach any intermediate setting.
Meanwhile the entire upper 60% of the volume range has zero utility. I cannot imagine the pain that max volume would induce.
Meanwhile the entire upper 60% of the volume range has zero utility. I cannot imagine the pain that max volume would induce.
My approach to solving that problem in software was to play music through an app with an equalizer where I could cut several dB across all frequencies (see my other post above). Now I can use much more of the system volume range with the rocker buttons before I reach a painful volume.
If you're listening to something like YouTube, or streaming audio through a web browser, then a music player app isn't going to cut it for you. There are some systemwide EQ apps, but I think they didn't work well (or maybe at all) on my 2014 Moto X, so I can't recommend any specific one.
If you're listening to something like YouTube, or streaming audio through a web browser, then a music player app isn't going to cut it for you. There are some systemwide EQ apps, but I think they didn't work well (or maybe at all) on my 2014 Moto X, so I can't recommend any specific one.
Does your Android phone have an option to limit the maximum volume? Depending on how it's implemented, that may give you more resolution out of the rocker buttons.
If the option exists, it may be in with other audio/volume options, or it could be with the parental controls options.
If the option exists, it may be in with other audio/volume options, or it could be with the parental controls options.
Haven't tried it, but there seem to be apps doing this.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=opotech.finevo...
That looks very promising! I was searching for systemwide EQ apps about a year ago (with the aim of cutting several dB across all frequencies, not actually using it as an EQ) and I don't think I saw that one.
I just gave it a try on my 2014 Moto X (which has had weird EQ-related bugs in some other apps) and it worked fine. I was able to make fine adjustments to audio whether it was playing from Firefox, YouTube, or my music app of choice.
I just gave it a try on my 2014 Moto X (which has had weird EQ-related bugs in some other apps) and it worked fine. I was able to make fine adjustments to audio whether it was playing from Firefox, YouTube, or my music app of choice.
I'll bet you could write an app to do it. My hunch is that the OS provides gradations of volume that aren't available to the regular user interface, and you could override that interface with an app.
There. A startup idea, or at least a nice side project for someone familiar with Android coding.
There. A startup idea, or at least a nice side project for someone familiar with Android coding.
I've found that side projects are successful when they number < 2. :3 Maybe I'll go plant a seed with the android team at my company.
There are earbuds with an analog volume control slider (not up/down buttons) built into the cord.
Perhaps an external headphone amp? I use an old one from my gaming headset days at work. Seems to help since I can set the laptop volume really low and use the knob on the amp to go lower.
> As one RA employee puts it, dance music is "not made to be played to people wearing earplugs. When you put them in it's never going to sound the same."
This seems to me very similar to the reasons people give to avoid using condoms. And helmets. And smoking.
I think putting hundreds of young people in a room guaranteed to give you hearing loss is madness. But then again, I was always boring.
This seems to me very similar to the reasons people give to avoid using condoms. And helmets. And smoking.
I think putting hundreds of young people in a room guaranteed to give you hearing loss is madness. But then again, I was always boring.
A good club sound system doesn't actually need to be very loud. It will still be loud enough that long-term exposure will cause hearing loss, but not loud enough that you would be shocked when you walk in the room.
Unfortunately, a sound system of that quality is extremely expensive and requires skilled workers to operate each night, so only clubs in places that allow clubs to operate openly and make money can afford it.
If a city doesn't allow clubs to stay open all night, or if the police crack down on drug use, the clubs go underground and don't make any money (or won't invest it in equipment that may be confiscated). Then, they use lower-quality equipment that must be played too loud in order to fill the space, and don't hire sound engineers to operate the system properly and safely.
Unfortunately, a sound system of that quality is extremely expensive and requires skilled workers to operate each night, so only clubs in places that allow clubs to operate openly and make money can afford it.
If a city doesn't allow clubs to stay open all night, or if the police crack down on drug use, the clubs go underground and don't make any money (or won't invest it in equipment that may be confiscated). Then, they use lower-quality equipment that must be played too loud in order to fill the space, and don't hire sound engineers to operate the system properly and safely.
A good club sound system also needs enough speakers in the right places to give the same volume level across the floor.
People (and their clothes) absorb a lot of sound, especially in the higher frequencies. Cranking up a couple of horn tweeter (cringe) is not the solution; it only makes the stupid people deaf.
People (and their clothes) absorb a lot of sound, especially in the higher frequencies. Cranking up a couple of horn tweeter (cringe) is not the solution; it only makes the stupid people deaf.
One of my favourite sound systems is Room 1 at Fabric in London, they have subs under the floor to help ease the strain on the main rig.
> A good club sound system doesn't actually need to be very loud
I was at Whiskey a Go Go not too long ago. The speaker stack for something that is really just a big room was insane.
I was at Whiskey a Go Go not too long ago. The speaker stack for something that is really just a big room was insane.
>operate
How do the accoustcs change from one day to the next?
How do the accoustcs change from one day to the next?
People (or more specifically, their clothes). Its even worse in most club environments as you lack the acoustic absorbsrtion that you get from furniture in a seated venue.
https://www.prosoundtraining.com/2014/10/16/model-audience-a...
https://www.prosoundtraining.com/2014/10/16/model-audience-a...
Also it changes from one track to the next. These days it's normally not that big of a deal because we have hit some kind of concensus about a good mix in most genres. But it will still change between genres. What's best for one isn't for another.
The technitian might also be key to keep the DJ in check. Nothing is worse than the sound of a clipping mixer because the DJ is inexperienced and thinks louder is better.
The technitian might also be key to keep the DJ in check. Nothing is worse than the sound of a clipping mixer because the DJ is inexperienced and thinks louder is better.
It's not always lack of experience: there's a mantra among some DJs that if you "aren't redlining you aren't headlining". I'm not a proponent of it, but I've heard the expression used more than a few times in the past couple years.
One of the most respected DJs in the Chicago footwork/juke scene always clips, at all times. It's apparently a thing.
One of the most respected DJs in the Chicago footwork/juke scene always clips, at all times. It's apparently a thing.
You're right I could definitely see it working for juke and as a style for some other genres.
[deleted]
fleshy meatbags with cloth bits hanging off them mess with acoustics.
Yeah, I agree. I wish that venues and soundguys would just fucking lower the volume. I definitely avoid a lot of venues for simply this reason!
I'm starting to think that people at venues ought to be able to sue venue owners for any sound that is over 85 decibels.
I'm starting to think that people at venues ought to be able to sue venue owners for any sound that is over 85 decibels.
I'm sympathetic to your complaint, but consider that 85 dB is quieter than an unamplified symphony orchestra or the cabin of most cruising airliners.
Yup, and people who play instruments in orchestras do tend to experience hearing loss if they don't wear protection.
Hmmm. Yeah maybe 85db is pretty low. There is some threshold that I feel pretty confident about, but I don't know what number it actually is. Looking here: http://www.webmd.com/brain/tc/harmful-noise-levels-topic-ove... I suspect it's more likely 110db.
I'm also maybe grumpier because I went to a show last night and I've had weird hearing all morning. :/
I'm also maybe grumpier because I went to a show last night and I've had weird hearing all morning. :/
Well, extended exposure to 85 dB will cause hearing loss. I think a good techno club will not be louder than 100 dB.
But my point was that many environments we consider "safe", "normal", or "enjoyable" are actually dangerous to our hearing, so we have to enter them with an understanding that we are trading temporary enjoyment for long-term health.
But my point was that many environments we consider "safe", "normal", or "enjoyable" are actually dangerous to our hearing, so we have to enter them with an understanding that we are trading temporary enjoyment for long-term health.
The UK Health and Safety
Executive has that you should go over an "Event LAeq of more than 107 dB or C-weighted peak sound pressure levels of more than 140 dB."
Which is quite loud.
Which is quite loud.
[deleted]
If they lowered the volume, people could hear each other and have conversations. This would make them drink less, which would be a huge loss for clubs. So they max out the volume to make people drink.
Normal earplugs definitely will kill certain frequencies and change what you are hearing drastically, however using Etymotic style earplugs are a lot better, as they negate the high pressure waves, but still let a broad range of frequencies through - and they still allow normal talking levels when away from the music so you don't have to keep taking them in and out.
Well, you might be right, but it's probably important if you're creating music. If that's your job, it's a lot more damn important that you get it right than feeling X or Y exact sensation with or without a condom.
Also, I take issue with "putting hundreds of young people in a room guaranteed to give you hearing loss". I've never been much of one for live music, I'm certainly no roadie, but I've been to plenty of raves and concerts in my time. I've been known to run extremely loud sound systems in my cars, crank headphones to the max (shy of distortion, of course), stand against speakers at performances, and generally treat my hearing like total shit. And yet, in my mid-30s, I have no symptoms of hearing loss, or any tinnitus. In fact, at least in certain scenarios, I have phenomenal hearing. I can hear (or detect?) when my wife's car drives up outside the front of the house from the back room. I can hear the footsteps of my cat down the hall in the middle of the night. I routinely get comments like "how did you hear that??" I'm not saying it won't happen to me, but I'm saying there's a remarkable variance in how and when these symptoms strike different people.
Also, I take issue with "putting hundreds of young people in a room guaranteed to give you hearing loss". I've never been much of one for live music, I'm certainly no roadie, but I've been to plenty of raves and concerts in my time. I've been known to run extremely loud sound systems in my cars, crank headphones to the max (shy of distortion, of course), stand against speakers at performances, and generally treat my hearing like total shit. And yet, in my mid-30s, I have no symptoms of hearing loss, or any tinnitus. In fact, at least in certain scenarios, I have phenomenal hearing. I can hear (or detect?) when my wife's car drives up outside the front of the house from the back room. I can hear the footsteps of my cat down the hall in the middle of the night. I routinely get comments like "how did you hear that??" I'm not saying it won't happen to me, but I'm saying there's a remarkable variance in how and when these symptoms strike different people.
>When you put them in it's never going to sound the same
One of the nice things with wax plugs is you can adjust the volume by squishing so you can listen a bit without to see what you are missing.
One of the nice things with wax plugs is you can adjust the volume by squishing so you can listen a bit without to see what you are missing.
As a drummer && music-lover && audiophile myself, I always stress out to other people the importance to protect ones' hearing. For me, hearing is an even more important sense than vision and I think good old Ludwig van Beethoven would agree with me (and Stevie Wonder -an idol of mine- too.)
I really can't understand how loud people can put the music on social gatherings like parties, weddings, etc. I do like loud (circa 90-96 dB A-weighted) music, but only if the following conditions are met:
- The sound system reproduces the music with good tonal balance and very loud distortion
- This loud level won't last more than 15 minutes
- The music is good :)
There is, at least in my country, some sort of obsession with adding music at all places. Like if music was necessary for any container with more than one human being...
Wear earplugs, friends!! I use the cheap orange 3M ones, made of foam, and, while they do change the freq response of your ear, it doesn't do it on a too obnoxious way.
From the article i found this:
> Finally, custom-moulded "musicians'" earplugs offer high sonic precision suitable for professional use.
I didn't know about this. This is great advice.
I really can't understand how loud people can put the music on social gatherings like parties, weddings, etc. I do like loud (circa 90-96 dB A-weighted) music, but only if the following conditions are met:
- The sound system reproduces the music with good tonal balance and very loud distortion
- This loud level won't last more than 15 minutes
- The music is good :)
There is, at least in my country, some sort of obsession with adding music at all places. Like if music was necessary for any container with more than one human being...
Wear earplugs, friends!! I use the cheap orange 3M ones, made of foam, and, while they do change the freq response of your ear, it doesn't do it on a too obnoxious way.
From the article i found this:
> Finally, custom-moulded "musicians'" earplugs offer high sonic precision suitable for professional use.
I didn't know about this. This is great advice.
Have you tried the middle ground, like the ER-20xs recommended elsewhere in this thread? I like the Ear Peace HD's, but Alpine MusicSafe Pros are great too. They're so much better than the cheap foam ones, but aren't anywhere near as expensive as the moulded professional ones.
I'd like to point out that, sadly, not all tinnitus is caused by hearing loss.
My tinnitus started despite being young and having subjected myself to far fewer loud noises, including concerts, than the average person. My doctor believes that mine is likely due to a neurological issue, but that we will never know the true cause. To satisfy our own curiosity (and determine if we could attempt to treat it with steroids, which is possible during the few weeks after the onset of tinnitus induced by hearing loss), we had my hearing tested. As expected, absolutely no hearing loss.
As others have said, I felt suicidal during those first few weeks. Thankfully, I've since learned to live with it.
My tinnitus started despite being young and having subjected myself to far fewer loud noises, including concerts, than the average person. My doctor believes that mine is likely due to a neurological issue, but that we will never know the true cause. To satisfy our own curiosity (and determine if we could attempt to treat it with steroids, which is possible during the few weeks after the onset of tinnitus induced by hearing loss), we had my hearing tested. As expected, absolutely no hearing loss.
As others have said, I felt suicidal during those first few weeks. Thankfully, I've since learned to live with it.
> As others have said, I felt suicidal during those first few weeks. Thankfully, I've since learned to live with it.
An incredibly common feeling among those who have recently got tinnitus. I felt this way to and unfortunately no matter how many times I read that people learnt to live with it, I never really took it on board.
For anyone reading who has got it, it really does get better. Eventually (6 months min from what I have read) your brain starts to tune it out. Only a very, very small number of people are unfortunate enough to have it persist without some dulling. Try not to despair or panic, it almost certainly will significantly dull and fade into the background after a few months. At some point, it not being present will be normal again.
Nowadays I notice a mild shadow of what it once was, maybe 4 times a year for an hour after a severe initial case.
An incredibly common feeling among those who have recently got tinnitus. I felt this way to and unfortunately no matter how many times I read that people learnt to live with it, I never really took it on board.
For anyone reading who has got it, it really does get better. Eventually (6 months min from what I have read) your brain starts to tune it out. Only a very, very small number of people are unfortunate enough to have it persist without some dulling. Try not to despair or panic, it almost certainly will significantly dull and fade into the background after a few months. At some point, it not being present will be normal again.
Nowadays I notice a mild shadow of what it once was, maybe 4 times a year for an hour after a severe initial case.
Mine was came after attempting to pop my ears during a very bad ear infection. I was trying to relieve the pressure, as I have done a lot, but because of the bad ear infection it was actually making it worse. The pain was so bad and it felt like my ear was never going to pop. Eventually, the pain subsided but at that exact same time, in place of the pain, was a ringing.
My ENT said the tinnitus was most likely caused by the bad ear infection and tried to assure me that me trying to pop my ears didn't have anything to do with it, but I can't help but feel like that wasn't the case, as I made the pain so much worse.
Anyways, agreed with others here that the first few months were the worst, and now it's mostly unnoticeable unless I actively think about it, drink a lot, or leave a loud environment.
My ENT said the tinnitus was most likely caused by the bad ear infection and tried to assure me that me trying to pop my ears didn't have anything to do with it, but I can't help but feel like that wasn't the case, as I made the pain so much worse.
Anyways, agreed with others here that the first few months were the worst, and now it's mostly unnoticeable unless I actively think about it, drink a lot, or leave a loud environment.
"pop ears" = equalise pressure, like you do on an aeroplane flight.
Just in case people aren't familiar with the idiom.
Just in case people aren't familiar with the idiom.
My first year of music school, I was fortunate enough to be exposed to the research of Dr. Marshall Chasin - an audiologist in Toronto.
His research on hearing loss, in particular hearing loss of musicians, deserves wide exposure for anyone considering making a career out of using their ears.
From one of his publications I use the following as a rule of thumb:
80db * 40hrs/week = permanent hearing damage
83db * 20hrs/week = permanent hearing damage
86db * 10hrs/week = permanent hearing damage
91db * 5hrs/week = permanent hearing damage
94db * 2.5hrs/week = permanent hearing damage
Further reading from Dr. Chasin: http://www.marshallchasinassociates.ca/hearing_articles.htm
His research on hearing loss, in particular hearing loss of musicians, deserves wide exposure for anyone considering making a career out of using their ears.
From one of his publications I use the following as a rule of thumb:
80db * 40hrs/week = permanent hearing damage
83db * 20hrs/week = permanent hearing damage
86db * 10hrs/week = permanent hearing damage
91db * 5hrs/week = permanent hearing damage
94db * 2.5hrs/week = permanent hearing damage
Further reading from Dr. Chasin: http://www.marshallchasinassociates.ca/hearing_articles.htm
Anecdata time - my tinnitus is way worse when my shoulders/upper back are tensed up. If I can get those to calm down, so does the tinnitus. The normal level is simply drowned out most of the time, but when I'm tense, I can "hear" it quite clearly and loudly.
The "head thumping" thing from a few months back also grants a short reprieve from normal levels of tinnitus, but it's definitely a temporary thing. It also appears to have no triggers that relate to sound, and is not associated with abnormal hearing loss so far (I've lost more high frequencies than average for my age, but nothing between that threshold and ~25hz).
The "head thumping" thing from a few months back also grants a short reprieve from normal levels of tinnitus, but it's definitely a temporary thing. It also appears to have no triggers that relate to sound, and is not associated with abnormal hearing loss so far (I've lost more high frequencies than average for my age, but nothing between that threshold and ~25hz).
In some cases tinnitus is also linked to TMJ syndrome.
I've posted this before, but it's worth mentioning as often as the topic comes up.
My wife has meniere's disease, so we need to protect her hearing in all moderately loud situations, (bars, music venues, movies). In advance of SXSW one year, I bought her a pair of these: http://amzn.to/2gK8qZv
"Musician's earplugs", so-to-speak, they attenuate all frequencies more evenly than standard foam plugs would. In effect just turning down the volume of the world a bit, not muffling it.
I don't have meniere's, but do get drained by bars and loud music. I hate to seem lame by wanting to leave a party/bar early, so I bought a pair for myself recently. They're just fantastic. Highly recommend.
My wife has meniere's disease, so we need to protect her hearing in all moderately loud situations, (bars, music venues, movies). In advance of SXSW one year, I bought her a pair of these: http://amzn.to/2gK8qZv
"Musician's earplugs", so-to-speak, they attenuate all frequencies more evenly than standard foam plugs would. In effect just turning down the volume of the world a bit, not muffling it.
I don't have meniere's, but do get drained by bars and loud music. I hate to seem lame by wanting to leave a party/bar early, so I bought a pair for myself recently. They're just fantastic. Highly recommend.
I was diagnosed with MD and I figured out what was causing it. I know that MD is a giant umbrella of different causes, but there's a small chance that my story could help her. Have her check it out, along with this study.
My story: https://www.reddit.com/r/Menieres/comments/5ip7eq/i_was_diag...
An interesting study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22253033
My story: https://www.reddit.com/r/Menieres/comments/5ip7eq/i_was_diag...
An interesting study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22253033
Thank you very much. I'll show this to her.
I've started getting the ringing in the ears a few years ago. However, it gets more pronounced when I twist my neck certain ways -- and it seems to let up a bit by stretching my neck in a different direction. Seeing as how I also have periodic neck pain, I wonder if pinched nerves there are contributing to the tinnitus symptoms? Also, there are some days on the drive home from work where the tinnitus is completely gone -- but it comes back strong the next morning, especially if it feels that I didn't have a good sleeping position.
> but it comes back strong the next morning, especially if it feels that I didn't have a good sleeping position.
If I sleep on my stomach too many days in a row, my tinnitus really flares up. I definitely think there's a neck component to it.
If I sleep on my stomach too many days in a row, my tinnitus really flares up. I definitely think there's a neck component to it.
Tight muscles in the face, jaw, and neck, and shoulders are the most likely culprit. It's almost certainly not nerves. For me it was "forward head" posture which needed to be corrected through strengthening exercises and a careful reassessment of my desk work and driving positions. I'd highly recommend visiting a good upper cervical chiropractor.
>Remember: the tinnitus might have started in the ear, but it lives in the brain.
I'm not sure that's true in most cases. There's a NIH paper where they looked at 151 cases where the auditory nerve was cut and "Complete relief of tinnitus was achieved in 101 patients." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7671835
Not that you'd really want that as a treatment.
I'm not sure that's true in most cases. There's a NIH paper where they looked at 151 cases where the auditory nerve was cut and "Complete relief of tinnitus was achieved in 101 patients." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7671835
Not that you'd really want that as a treatment.
Somewhat ironically, tests are being conducted to use MDMA/Ecstasy as a possible cure for tinnitus.
[1] http://mixmag.net/read/scientists-have-completed-trials-atte...
[1] http://mixmag.net/read/scientists-have-completed-trials-atte...
You know one of the smartphone makers could prevent a lot of tinnitus by having software that detects if you've been exposed to a lot of 100db+ and pops up a warning suggesting taking it easy or using earplugs. People often don't figure there's a problem until it's too late and you've got tinnitus which you can't really fix.
The article links to http://www.notchtherapy.com/ which looks very interesting. I plan on following the steps outlined there to create a custom notch filter for my tinnitus frequency.
Has anyone here played with this technique before?
Has anyone here played with this technique before?
Check out http://www.audionotch.com/
[deleted]
I've had severe Tinnitus for over a year due to a degenerative disease damaging my hearing and causing hearing loss. It's been hell, and it still is. It's unlikely to get better with time since the disease is known to make progress and worsen things.
No wonder suicide ideation is so high among T sufferers: http://journals.lww.com/thehearingjournal/Fulltext/2016/0700...
"I suddenly lost the hearing on one ear and it got replaced by a strong and permanent tinnitus. I quantify it as strong based on my talks with others with tinnitus.
What worked for me was stop fighting and start loving it. Now it's a perma mantra. Some somatic malfunction that enables me to ear the hum inside of me or whatever poetry works for you. Try it maybe."
Related re-post from here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13140256
Related re-post from here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13140256
Yeah, I've got it bad. 25 years of techno/D&B with 1MW (really) sound systems in enclosed spaces. Ear protection sometimes. Ruptured an eardrum once. I was surprised to read about some of the really negative reactions to it. Mostly, it's like white noise to me and I'm able to ignore it, but whenever it's bothering me, I think back to some of the good times I had getting it :)
One thing to remember about earplugs is to not overuse them. Earplugs lock moisture inside the ear and that in turn can cause infections and/or highly increased earwax discharge.
your mileage may vary, my brother will get an ear infection after a half a day with earplugs. I can wear earplugs 4+ hours a day every day a year no problems.
I've always had tinnitus since I was a child and just thought the world was like that. A trick popped up on Reddit to temporarily, and perhaps for some with regular application, cures it for a short time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yDCox-qKbk
Thump the back of your head like that with your ears covered well about 40 times and enjoy the silence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yDCox-qKbk
Thump the back of your head like that with your ears covered well about 40 times and enjoy the silence.
I've had ringing as long as i can remember. My mother's description, she has it too, when a doctor told her it wasn't normal always stuck with me 'oh i just liked hearing the pretty music'
Thankfully that's what it's always been to me. The ringing is the meaning of silence and the notes are not at odds with each other.
When I realised that other people didn't hear the ringing when it was silent, I was a fair bit shocked.
Thankfully that's what it's always been to me. The ringing is the meaning of silence and the notes are not at odds with each other.
When I realised that other people didn't hear the ringing when it was silent, I was a fair bit shocked.
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> I've always had tinnitus since I was a child and just thought the world was like that.
I'm exactly the same, although I do know what caused it for me. My mother's then-boyfriend was an abusive piece of crap who used to haul me around by my ears whenever he felt angry. Sometimes he would throw me head first into the wall by pulling my ears hard in that direction, then use the back of my head for subsequent blows, so it could be neurological rather than an audiological phenomenon. (You'd think she would've put a stop to that, but you would be wrong - she stayed with him for a few more years.)
Normally the ringing would stop after a few hours, but I remember the day that it never stopped. I got so used to it that I tuned it out and completely forgot that the world was ever silent.
I'm exactly the same, although I do know what caused it for me. My mother's then-boyfriend was an abusive piece of crap who used to haul me around by my ears whenever he felt angry. Sometimes he would throw me head first into the wall by pulling my ears hard in that direction, then use the back of my head for subsequent blows, so it could be neurological rather than an audiological phenomenon. (You'd think she would've put a stop to that, but you would be wrong - she stayed with him for a few more years.)
Normally the ringing would stop after a few hours, but I remember the day that it never stopped. I got so used to it that I tuned it out and completely forgot that the world was ever silent.
Additional reading that provided much needed (for me, at least) scientific context around the condition: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/04/03/high-tech-hope-...
Does anybody know what the dB level of macbook speakers playing at max volume is? I am curious to know if playing music at max volume through them while sitting about 2-3 feet away from them can damage hearing.
Probably depends on the model. Maybe try downloading a phone app and testing it. I don't think my 11.6" Air makes enough sound to do damage at 2'. Using the Earpods at max I notice some increased tinnitus though.
Buy earplugs with a small case you keep on your keychain and take everywhere.
The best earplugs are the ones you use!
The best earplugs are the ones you use!
> I like hearing my music at loud volumes, as everyone does.
I don't think this is true. A lot of people like going to the kinds of events that have loud music, but I've seen a lot of people who don't like the volume. One obvious example: most of the weddings I've been to recently turn into dance parties, and the volume creeps its way up and up. As this happens, a lot of the guests start moving farther from the speakers, off the dance floor, and eventually out of the room. Dancing: lots of fun. Ear-splitting volume: not necessarily.
At my wedding, we picked a great band and kept the music at a comfortable level, and most of the guests danced the whole time and even the non-dancing guests clustered around the dance floor. I can't prove causation, but I bet the tolerable volume had a lot to do with it.
So maybe the real solution is for people to start trying to figure out why the norm for concerts is to have the volume painfully loud. It's possible that guests just might enjoy them more with quieter music.